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Old January 17, 2019, 22:42   #1
krisincolfax
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De- Prime unfired 223 / 5.56 LC brass

I removed the powder and bullet out of some 5.56 LC once fired
re-loaded rounds that I found out they might be to hot of a charge
not knowing what the primer is I'm going to de-cap them as well
is there a safe way to remove a live primer ? or should I set them
off in a rifle ?
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Old January 17, 2019, 23:54   #2
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I recall a squirt of water or WD 40 will neutralize a primer. Or for fun... pop them in a rifle. That seems to be the safest bet.
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Old January 18, 2019, 03:38   #3
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Just slowly pop them out like an empty primer.
Done it hundreds of times.

What was the load?
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Old January 18, 2019, 10:02   #4
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What was the load?[/QUOTE]

Freedom Munitions / 5.56 M193 55 grn FMJ Re-Man

I weighed the bullets right at 55 grns very consistant and the
powder ( who knows which brand ) at 26.1 grns , again
really consistant , the powder was a flat spherical type ,
at least thats what it looked like to me

Last edited by krisincolfax; January 18, 2019 at 10:17.
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Old January 18, 2019, 10:53   #5
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I have also decapped live primers, slowly and carefully. Wear Muffs and Goggles, keep little kids and animals out of the Disassembly area.
The primers were erratic and one round left a bullet in the bore.

I think I'd leave the primers, drop the powder charge a grain or two, and fire away.
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Old January 18, 2019, 11:14   #6
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I already tossed the powder , If I remember correctly the 5.56 NATO
was originally desinged for stick powder ? , any suggestions as to
brands , I mostly use IMR for other calibers , never have re-loaded
223 / 5.56
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Old January 18, 2019, 12:58   #7
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I meant to say that whatever powder used to load the cases with could be less than a max load with that powder not knowing the primer used.

5.56 loads used in Semi auto's should be loaded with military grade or magnum primers to prevent the possibility of slamfires.

I use Ball powders in 5.56 loads because they run thru a Powder Measure easily and produce accurate charges. Most used are Win 748, H 335, Varget, and TAC.

I do like H4895 for 5.56 and have used IMR 4198 for accuracy loads. Haven't tried IMR 4895. Other IMR powders that can be used are IMR 3031, 4064 and 4320 along with BL C2 if you have any.

I don't know what "stick" powder was used in the original loads.
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Old January 18, 2019, 13:10   #8
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I just did a little research on line , IMR 4320 might be a good choice
as well , as far as primers go I've always used CCI for large rifle ( Garand )
and small rifle CCI for 30 carbine never a missfire or slam fire
granted the 30 carbine is basically a pistol round , guess should I re-think
on primers ...
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Old January 18, 2019, 13:23   #9
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First, donít buy Freedom Munitions. They have blown
up so many rifles in the past couple years itís not even funny.

Buy CCI #41 primers. They are magnum rated and are less
susceptible to slam fires, though they are rare. These are my
favorite and have never failed me.

Lots of powders work, but stick with a ball like W748, Tac,
or 8208. H335, W844, and Varget are also popular for .223.

I might be able to get you 8lbs. of 748 when I head over.
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Old January 19, 2019, 08:02   #10
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CFE 223 flows very good too, ball powder.
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Old January 26, 2019, 16:26   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
I removed the powder and bullet out of some 5.56 LC once fired
re-loaded rounds that I found out they might be to hot of a charge
not knowing what the primer is I'm going to de-cap them as well
is there a safe way to remove a live primer ? or should I set them
off in a rifle ?
Imo you're wasting a bunch of good primers...
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Old January 26, 2019, 16:46   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x401 View Post
Imo you're wasting a bunch of good primers...
Haven't de primed yet , wating on a set of dies , not knowing
what type they are maybe just figure them to be a " magnum "
type and hold back on the powder a grain or two ?
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Old January 26, 2019, 16:58   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
not knowing
what type they are maybe just figure them to be a " magnum "
type and hold back on the powder a grain or two ?
Exactly!
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Old January 26, 2019, 20:42   #14
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OH. MY. GOD.

On what authority does anybody assert that "magnum" primers increase pressure?

Do not cite some nonsense, unsupported by test data, that may appear on some powder-vendor website.

Show me some ACTUAL TEST DATA that shows that magnum primers change overall pressure.

This myth must die.
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Old January 26, 2019, 21:12   #15
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If it helps you any, I can tell you I have chronograph-tested ammunition with magnum and non-magnum primers.

Same Powder. Same bullet. Same brass.

Side-by-side.

Only thing different was the primer.

NO DIFFERENCE IN VELOCITY WHATSOEVER.

NONE.
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Old January 26, 2019, 21:32   #16
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The only practical difference in primers is cup thickness, and cup hardness.

The primers being marketed as "military primers" are rumored to have harder cup material than "commercial" primers. Although, if you go to the manufacturer's website, no claim of any harder cup-metal is made. The closest thing to anything that is more than just marketing-blather is the claim "Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants." Whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean. Yet we see people using these very primers for all sorts of loads with STICK powder.

The ONE DIFFERENCE between magnum and non-magnum primers applies in the case of small-rifle-primers ONLY. Magnum small rifle primers have a thicker cup than small non-magnum primers. Here is a piece of advice from me: NEVER use anything except a magnum primer for loading 5.56 at true 5.56 pressures. Use the THICKER primer for chrissakes!

Mr. Calhoon took the time to measure primer-cup thicknesses, and he published his results at:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Here is what you get if you load 5.56 to anything close to true 5.56 pressures, and you make the mistake of using "standard" small rifle primers instead of magnum small rifle primers. Here, a CCI 400 was the culprit. 23.5 grains Vihta Vuouri N135, moly-koted 80SMK, OAL 2.482", Krieger barrel on AR15. Which is actually a very mild load. Quickload reports pressure of only 51,937 PSI (SAAMI max is 62,336 PSI). Notice no other pressure signs on primer, except these unsuitably-thin primers extruding and piercing. We tried several new bolts, and several new firing pins with non-magnum primers. Same result. As soon as we switched to magnum primers, the primer-failure problem went away - but the chronograph showed no changes in velocity.

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Old January 27, 2019, 00:39   #17
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Have deprived lots of live primed cases caafefully. Not had one pop but do wear gloves and eye protection. Already deaf. Had a deceased friend use a Lee hand primer to prime 1,000 5.56 cases with pistol primers. He planned to use them but I flipped out on him. Gave him 1,000 rifle primers and did the work myself because some of my friends are stupid. He had a half dozen major reloading mistakes almost hurt someone before he died due to an A.D. cleaning his 1911. Loved him like a brother but he was dumb as dirt even with twork masters degrees.
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Old January 27, 2019, 10:45   #18
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[QUOTE=W.E.G.;4689351]The only practical difference in primers is cup thickness, and cup hardness.

The primers being marketed as "military primers" are rumored to have harder cup material than "commercial" primers. Although, if you go to the manufacturer's website, no claim of any harder cup-metal is made. The closest thing to anything that is more than just marketing-blather is the claim "Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants." Whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean. Yet we see people using these very primers for all sorts of loads with STICK powder.

The ONE DIFFERENCE between magnum and non-magnum primers applies in the case of small-rifle-primers ONLY.

So in the case of large rifle primers ( I use CCI 200 ) and IMR 4064 powder
to reload 30-06 for a Garand and 7.62 NATO for a CETME and a FAL that
the CCI 200 has the same possibility for a slam fire ( which I never have had )
as compared to a " military primer " ?
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Old January 27, 2019, 11:41   #19
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Kris, ANY large rifle primer will be fine.

Make SURE every primer is seated at least 0.001Ē BELOW the case head.

I have reloaded many, many, thousands 7.62x51 and 30-06. Fired in M14 and Garand and others. Iíve used various brands primers. Mostly standard, but had to use-up a couple thousand magnum large rifle primers after I sold the 1000-yard rifle. It DOES NOT MATTER.

I donít dispute that there may be some difference in the priming compound used for magnum/non-magnum. I suspect the magnums burn a millisecond longer to best ignite larger, or compressed, powder charges. Zero evidence anywhere to support the myth that pressure increases due to magnum/non-magnum primers. Better ignition may provide slightly more consistent velocity in large, or compressed, powder charges. But that is only my speculation.

When my rifle team tested various magnum/non-magnum SMALL rifle primers, the only significant difference we saw was the magnum primers remained intact,whereas the non-magnums pierced/blanked/extruded when powder charges approached anything close to SAAMI normal 5.56 pressures.
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Old January 27, 2019, 11:52   #20
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High primers can cause a slam-fire in any gun, any caliber.

A broken, and protruding, firing pin can cause a slam-fire.

A SEVERELY fouled bolt can cause a firing pin to remain extended, and can cause a slam-fire.

An over-oiled bolt can pick up small rocks if the ejection port is extremely close to the ground when firing from some goofy Call Of Duty firing position. If rocks get caught between the bolt and the primer, THAT can cause a slam fire.

Make SURE your priming tool seats primers 0.001Ē BELOW the case head!!!
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Old January 27, 2019, 12:27   #21
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Thanks W.E.G. I'm learing a lot from your posts / input , to switch gears
a little bit , from what I can gather from this article ,

Mr. Calhoon took the time to measure primer-cup thicknesses, and he published his results at:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php


CCI #400 small rifle primers will be ok for the 30 M1 Carbine , I looked
up the max. pressure for this cartridge , 38,500 PSI , I've used the #400
primers for a long time never have seen any problems with the cases /
primers , also never a slam fire
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Old January 27, 2019, 13:57   #22
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After my debacle with the pierced primers, I pulled the bullets on a full .50 cal can of that ammo.

Dumped all the powder back in a bottle.

Saved the primed (with CCI 400) cases.

Looked up my 69-grain load, and reduced it by two full grains (not 0.2) grains.

Loaded up a test-batch of 69-grain ammo with the 2-grain-reduced powder charge. Test-fired. No piercings.

Loaded the rest at 2.0 grains reduced, and used that ammo for practice ammo.

Gave-away ALL of my non-magnum small rifle primers.

Vowed to never buy non-magnum small rifle primers again.

I think its an absolute racket that the manufacturers are selling - AT A PREMIUM PRICE - these so-called "military primers," which impress me as nothing more than re-packaged magnum primers.

After 20 years of loading tens of thousands of 5.56 with magnum primers, the only way I would use any of the labeled "military primers" is if you gave them to me.
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Old February 01, 2019, 11:43   #23
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So I recieved a set of Hornady custom grade dies a few days ago
geting ready to re load the the cases that I pulled the bullets ( used
a impact type puller ) and powder from , now I have a question , it
may be a stupid one but I never have reloaded " pulled " cases ;
do I need to resize the neck ? the dies are FL , the decap pin can
be removed so it won't de-prime
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Old February 01, 2019, 11:50   #24
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Yes, resize.
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Old February 01, 2019, 12:00   #25
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Yes, resize.
Ok thanks , have you ever heard of or delt with a company
by the name of Elite Brass ? , Brass Bombers went out of
business
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Old February 01, 2019, 12:29   #26
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Winchester small rifle primers cause slam fires as well, no matter how deep you seat it. I have witnessed at least 6 of them in 18 years of highpower shooting, when I see one, I ask.. Friend of mine had two, even after I gave him my advise, he kept on shooting them. The second one destroyed his expensive NM upper, it was a partial out of battery slamfire.

And if they don't have a slamfire, they pierce easily. Worst primer you can buy.

I also had a high master shooter next to me that had a slamfire with a Wolf small rifle (not magnum) primer.

Just buy Remington 7.5 primers, Midsouth had them on sale for $27/1000 not too long ago.
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Old February 01, 2019, 16:42   #27
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Ok thanks , have you ever heard of or delt with a company
by the name of Elite Brass ? , Brass Bombers went out of
business
No. Donít buy brass.
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