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Old March 09, 2017, 20:37   #501
JerrySexton
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Stupid newb question here. I ran with pretty much all my gear and with my rifle slung today. My rifle absolutely beat my back to death. What am I doing wrong? How to you guys carry your rifle?

At this point I'm considering just carrying it while I run and only slinging it when I need my hands.
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Old March 09, 2017, 21:55   #502
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Stupid newb question here. I ran with pretty much all my gear and with my rifle slung today. My rifle absolutely beat my back to death. What am I doing wrong? How to you guys carry your rifle?

At this point I'm considering just carrying it while I run and only slinging it when I need my hands.
Some use a biathlon sling.

Some sling across their back.

Some carry across the front.

If you carry across your back. Pull that sling tight.
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Old March 09, 2017, 22:12   #503
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I'm a first time noob too Jerry, so my input may not be worth much. But I'm using a micro chest rig for my rifle mags and a 2-point sling (Blue Force Gear Vickers, I think) snugged tight with rifle across my chest muzzle down. The sling has a quick slide adjustment feature that makes transitioning from snug run mode to loose on-target mode fairly easy. Another option might be to use a small pack like a Camelbak to cushion your back from your rifle if you prefer a back-slung rifle. Either way I think a quick slide sling might be the way to go, but the Dream Team on here most likely has more battle-hardened advice.

I've been running with my gear to identify hotspots and such too, and it seems to work well. The running still sucks, but that's a given! Look for me on Saturday if you need a run buddy. I'll be the strikingly handsom, slightly chubby non-SPECOPS guy with an AR-15 (I know, I know......but I self-identify as a FAL FILES member ) and a morale patch on my chest that says "LOW SPEED, HIGH DRAG" running way too slow and appearing to be on the brink of total cardio-pulmonary collapse. I can't friggin' wait!!!
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Old March 09, 2017, 22:46   #504
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Originally Posted by TxGunDawg View Post
Some use a biathlon sling.

Some sling across their back.

Some carry across the front.

If you carry across your back. Pull that sling tight.
This. I have both a Vickers sling and what I would call a knockoff of a Vickers sling (with a loop instead of a pull tab to adjust). I actually like the knockoff better, but it could be because I've used it more and am just used to it.

I carry it diagonally across my back, with the flat side of the FAL facing my back, magazine well pointed up (upside down), and muzzle pointed down. To keep it flat I attach it to the rifel with a sling thing at the rear of the receiver, and I've installed sling studs in the side of the metal in the handguards. I cinch it tight while running, and loosen it to take it off to shoot.
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Old March 10, 2017, 00:41   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhlmann View Post
I'm a first time noob too Jerry, so my input may not be worth much. But I'm using a micro chest rig for my rifle mags and a 2-point sling (Blue Force Gear Vickers, I think) snugged tight with rifle across my chest muzzle down. The sling has a quick slide adjustment feature that makes transitioning from snug run mode to loose on-target mode fairly easy. Another option might be to use a small pack like a Camelbak to cushion your back from your rifle if you prefer a back-slung rifle. Either way I think a quick slide sling might be the way to go, but the Dream Team on here most likely has more battle-hardened advice.

I've been running with my gear to identify hotspots and such too, and it seems to work well. The running still sucks, but that's a given! Look for me on Saturday if you need a run buddy. I'll be the strikingly handsom, slightly chubby non-SPECOPS guy with an AR-15 (I know, I know......but I self-identify as a FAL FILES member ) and a morale patch on my chest that says "LOW SPEED, HIGH DRAG" running way too slow and appearing to be on the brink of total cardio-pulmonary collapse. I can't friggin' wait!!!
Love this post!

I ran the Oklahoma 10k last year with the FAL on a single point across my chest. It was fine for short runs but got front heavy on the long sections. The Rockcastle run has 'only' a mile section or so as the longest run as near as I can tell, so that might be OK.

I ran the 20k OK run this year with a biathlon and it was an absolute joy. I did run a rectangular bladder pack mainly to hold extra ammo and act as a pad for the rifle. That will NOT be on me at Rockcastle as this will hopefully be sprints between stations. Heck, even the mile portion gets a nice pause as you deal with the cargo net.
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Old March 10, 2017, 07:17   #506
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Are you bringing a cargo net???
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Old March 10, 2017, 07:55   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySexton View Post
Stupid newb question here. I ran with pretty much all my gear and with my rifle slung today. My rifle absolutely beat my back to death. What am I doing wrong? How to you guys carry your rifle?

At this point I'm considering just carrying it while I run and only slinging it when I need my hands.
I run a camelback for long runs, with an M1A the mag release will put a hole in your back if you don't.....
That said, I may just run with rifle over one shoulder for this one. If you do this, make sure rifle is positioned so sight knobs down rub against you. (it can be bad for accuracy!)

If you try to run very far carrying your rifle, you'll soon understand why using a sling is a better plan.
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Old March 10, 2017, 17:27   #508
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Are you bringing a cargo net???
Whatever climby-thing you have for us.
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Old March 11, 2017, 09:07   #509
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Tip of the day: if your flashlight gets turned on in your pocket while you're running, the batteries might be dead when you get to the cave and you're SOL and will zero that stage. Happened to me today during my "dress rehearsal":

36įF and snowing, full gear with rifle, pistol, and loaded magazines. Ran back and forth around the farm, climbing over gates and crawling under fences, dry firing the entire course.

Note to self: Get new batteries for the headlamp, run faster, and hope it doesn't happen on the clock!
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Old March 11, 2017, 13:58   #510
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Man, you fellas are much harder than I will ever be again. I can walk from here to eternity, but running just isn't an option.
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Old March 11, 2017, 14:01   #511
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Man, you fellas are much harder than I will ever be again. I can walk from here to eternity, but running just isn't an option.
You would not be alone if you came and walked the course. And you would not be looked down upon. You do what you can do, and you're 10x the man that never gets off the couch.
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Old March 12, 2017, 13:08   #512
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Is there a web page with the entire course of fire and map? I went through this thread and copied / pasted together all the stage descriptions but wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I think I got my sling sorted out. I tried several and ended up with a Magpul multi mission.
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Old March 12, 2017, 13:19   #513
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Originally Posted by Tuhlmann View Post
I'm a first time noob too Jerry, so my input may not be worth much. But I'm using a micro chest rig for my rifle mags and a 2-point sling (Blue Force Gear Vickers, I think) snugged tight with rifle across my chest muzzle down. The sling has a quick slide adjustment feature that makes transitioning from snug run mode to loose on-target mode fairly easy. Another option might be to use a small pack like a Camelbak to cushion your back from your rifle if you prefer a back-slung rifle. Either way I think a quick slide sling might be the way to go, but the Dream Team on here most likely has more battle-hardened advice.

I've been running with my gear to identify hotspots and such too, and it seems to work well. The running still sucks, but that's a given! Look for me on Saturday if you need a run buddy. I'll be the strikingly handsom, slightly chubby non-SPECOPS guy with an AR-15 (I know, I know......but I self-identify as a FAL FILES member ) and a morale patch on my chest that says "LOW SPEED, HIGH DRAG" running way too slow and appearing to be on the brink of total cardio-pulmonary collapse. I can't friggin' wait!!!
Glad I'm not the only first timer. Thanks for the input. The Magpul sling I settled on adjusts quickly and can convert to single point if needed.

Look for me. I'll be the not so handsome very chubby guy in the rear of the pack givin' 'er hell.
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Old March 12, 2017, 13:33   #514
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Is there a web page with the entire course of fire and map?
The Facebook Event page (https://www.facebook.com/events/1776892339261414/) is the most comprehensive place to find match info, but much like this thread you have to sort through a whole bunch of hilarity to find what you're looking for. I'll send an email to everyone registered tomorrow night with a copy of the map and course of fire, and final instructions/reminders.

On to a training report!

3-gun has made me lazy with a pistol, so I spent yesterday shooting strong hand and weak hand only drills, and headshots from the holster. Today was spent with the FAL shooting X-drills (the strong and weak side drill from Stage 1), positional practice, and running the VTAC board at 100yds to be sure I remember my canted zeros.

Who else is ready?!?!?
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Old March 12, 2017, 17:58   #515
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Training Update:

Went out today and did 4.25 miles with all gear and rifle on (27lbs total) and shot the course of fire (minus - the best I could make up without some of the obstacles and stuff). Double checked everything and all seems tight and ready to go. On the road to Knoxville for work tomorrow morning and will be heading to Rockcastle on Thursday afternoon from there.

.75 mile run

Stage 1 (Rifle):
- 50yds - around appropriate side of barricade (didn't shoot the barricade this time). 5rds right-hand standing, 5rds left-hand kneeling, 5rds right-hand kneeling, 5rds left-hand standing.
- Carried a bucket full of rock from 50yds to target and back to 65yds
- 65yds - 5rds standing, 5rds kneeling, 5rds sitting, 5rds prone.

1.25 mile run

Stage 2 (Rifle):
- 50yds - load and make ready an irons rifle (I used the Argy since I didn't have an AK handy) 20rds standing.
- Ran to 65yds picked up Chevy Suburban tire (no clue how much it weighs) and carried to VTAC at 100yds.
- 100yds - 10rds through the two 45`degree ports, 10rds through the two 90`degree ports.

.75 mile run

Stage 3 (Pistol):
- 15yds - 34rds with flashlight

.75 mile run

Stage 4 (Rifle):
- 200yds - 5rds standing, 5rds kneeling, 5rds sitting, 5rds prone

.75 mile run

Stage 3 (Pistol):
- 15yds - 17rds right-hand, 17rds left-hand

and done...
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Old March 12, 2017, 18:43   #516
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(didn't shoot the barricade this time)


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- 65yds - 5rds standing, 5rds kneeling, 5rds sitting, 5rds prone.
Somebody called me out on this on the FB page: I should have said "four different LOCATIONS" instead of "positions". You'll shoot the X-drill, then carry the ammo can to the first shooting box. Hit a fairly close (10-30 yds) target 5 times, then move to the next shooting box. Repeat four times total. I think most people will shoot this from standing and just run from box to box - but you can use any shooting position you want as long as you only touch the ground within the shooting box. Sorry for the confusion -

You definitely sound ready!
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Old March 12, 2017, 18:47   #517
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Today I drove to Atlanta Motor Speedway for a race car training thing Jill bought me for Christmas only to have it cancelled as soon as I got there.

I then came home and worked on the pool control programs.

-charging hat headlamp - check
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Old March 12, 2017, 19:15   #518
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Why did they cancel it? Was the weather worse there than here for once?

Curious to hear about the pool control. I would have thought it was on/off/speed. Are you getting all fancy and having it test and adjust water quality realtime? And then do interval training for the speed settings?

Trying to imagine what you can do to a pool...
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Old March 12, 2017, 19:16   #519
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...Somebody called me out on this on the FB page: I should have said "four different LOCATIONS" instead of "positions". You'll shoot the X-drill, then carry the ammo can to the first shooting box. Hit a fairly close (10-30 yds) target 5 times, then move to the next shooting box. Repeat four times total. I think most people will shoot this from standing and just run from box to box - but you can use any shooting position you want as long as you only touch the ground within the shooting box. Sorry for the confusion...
No problem. I figured it was something like that and just sort of figured they were different types of barricades that would require different positions. Over practicing I suppose. I guess warming up at 65yds didn't hurt any either.
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...You definitely sound ready!
We will see!

Thank you again for making this all possible for us and thank you to everyone else that is part of the Halfling's madness!
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Old March 12, 2017, 20:00   #520
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No problem. I figured it was something like that and just sort of figured they were different types of barricades that would require different positions. Over practicing I suppose. I guess warming up at 65yds didn't hurt any either.
There is no such thing as "overpracticing"!

We'll see about the barricades. If I have any time left Thursday after setting everything up I may get creative.
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Old March 12, 2017, 22:36   #521
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Why did they cancel it? Was the weather worse there than here for once?

Curious to hear about the pool control. I would have thought it was on/off/speed. Are you getting all fancy and having it test and adjust water quality realtime? And then do interval training for the speed settings?

Trying to imagine what you can do to a pool...
Apron was too wet they said.

The pool is controlled by a PLC and an HMI. The HMI is just an interface, think giant panel-mounted ipad. The PLC is the brains. It controls the supply and return valves, as well as the pump and heater. So today I was hooking up the temperature sensor from outside (used for freeze protection) and also checking the various control modes. Pool mode, where the pool is heated to a selected setpoint. And also standby mode, where the pool and spa are both cycled for about 30 minutes daily each just to keep the water filtered.

I have solar accumulators coming to make a separate system, though still run by the PLC, to cycle pool water through the accumulators when they are above the pool temperature until the pool reaches the 85 degrees we want to keep it at.

There are all sorts of complexities to the control. i.e. how do you handle switching from one mode to the other? It can get pretty messy.
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Old March 13, 2017, 08:03   #522
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so 90% chance of precip Friday afternoon.

The RO curse returns.
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Old March 13, 2017, 11:34   #523
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so 90% chance of precip Friday afternoon.

The RO curse returns.
Patience, young one. They know not of which they speak.
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Old March 13, 2017, 14:33   #524
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so 90% chance of precip Friday afternoon.

The RO curse returns.
I'd rather run in the rain than work/stand around in the rain.

JMHO
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Old March 13, 2017, 15:13   #525
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I'd rather run in the rain than work/stand around in the rain.

JMHO
Me too. I don't get to make the call though. See if you can put in a good word for us!
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Old March 13, 2017, 17:37   #526
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Patience, young one. They know not of which they speak.
Easy for you to say since you are stepping off first thing in the morning when it will be dry!
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Old March 13, 2017, 20:24   #527
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I'm sending emails to all competitors tonight with match details, but in the spirit of "there's no such thing as over-communication" here's what you really need to know:

Registration opens at 6:30am on Saturday morning and closes at 7:30am. You will sign a waiver, pay your $50 match fee, randomly draw your start time, and perform your "no gear" weigh-in if willing. IF YOU ARE NOT REGISTERED BY 7:30AM YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SLOT. I have several people staying at the Lodge and showing up Saturday morning in the hopes that someone cancels at the last minute. I will give them your slot at 7:30am if you are not there. At 7:30am we'll have a Shooters' Meeting, and then you are free to relax/sleep/eat/dryfire/stress until your run time.

Please show up to the start line at least fifteen minutes before your scheduled run time. We'll do the "full gear" weigh-in, and then release you to begin at precisely your assigned time. If you are not there at your scheduled run time and ready to go, you could lose your slot and have to wait until we can work you in at our leisure. We might just make you do burpees until then.

I also just learned that I have a limit to how many emails I can send every half-hour, so this might take awhile. I apologize if anyone gets multiple emails while I figure all this out!

Below is the most current Course Map (course is the red line). Be sure to read over the Match Details and full Course of fire in the "About" section of the Facebook Event page, or in your email. See you soon!

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Old March 13, 2017, 22:25   #528
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Old March 13, 2017, 22:55   #529
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Weapons and related gear is packed.

Not freaking out.

I do need to pack clothes though...and some food...steaks I think, and some charcoal. Is there an unattended grill? What to do about veggies though? Oh and a decent 6-pack of some IPA none of you heathens will like. And I suppose some good bourbon, I mean SOMEONE will feel like celebrating when it is over.

The rear scope cap won't stay closed, so if it is raining that will become a tankard of liquid sunshine each time I stop.

Frog-togs and flannel jeans for Saturday.

Do I need to bring timers?
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Old March 14, 2017, 06:13   #530
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No timers needed - Rockcastle is supplying those. Not sure about a grille, but I THINK there are some around. On the other hand, they have a restaurant there so they may have removed all the grilles on purpose?

Strange about the scope cap. I feel silly asking this because you're, well, you - but are you sure it's on straight? Will it stay closed when off the rifle?
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Old March 14, 2017, 08:32   #531
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Strange about the scope cap. I feel silly asking this because you're, well, you - but are you sure it's on straight? Will it stay closed when off the rifle?
I seem to be bumping it when putting the sling on or when running, not sure which.
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Old March 14, 2017, 12:43   #532
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I seem to be bumping it when putting the sling on or when running, not sure which.
Shoot the low port on the VTAC wall first then - that way the rainwater will fall out when you turn sideways.
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Old March 14, 2017, 14:24   #533
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...tankard of liquid sunshine...
So you'll just have more hydration during stops. Watch your muzzle while taking a drink of course!
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Old March 14, 2017, 15:13   #534
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Longest shot is 200, right? How big is that target?

Alternately, I could ask, "Are the targets generally 4MOA, or are they larger than that?"


Thanks!
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Old March 14, 2017, 18:25   #535
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300yd prone I thought? After the 100yd standing and 200yd sitting/kneeling. Stage #4
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Old March 14, 2017, 18:26   #536
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Longest shot is 200, right? How big is that target?

Alternately, I could ask, "Are the targets generally 4MOA, or are they larger than that?"


Thanks!
300 I believe.

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On the buzzer, get two hits on the 100yd target from standing, two hits on the 200yd target from kneeling or sitting, and two hits on the 300yd target from prone.
Hopefully they're larger than 4 MOA or I might have to pack a couple extra boolits.
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Old March 14, 2017, 19:14   #537
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Hey since we're asking, I have a couple of goofy newbie questions of my own. Can we jettison things along the way? Maybe in the trash can at stages?

Is it OK to adjust my (empty of course) rifle or other gear while running? For example, change my sling from two points to single point?

If I get debris from the mud pits (or wherever) in my rifle or scope, can I park off the running path until I get the situation rectified and then carry-on? Or how should I handle it?
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Old March 14, 2017, 19:24   #538
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Good luck everyone. Be safe. I'm super jealous, hope to catch this next year!
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Old March 14, 2017, 20:09   #539
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Alternately, I could ask, "Are the targets generally 4MOA, or are they larger than that?"
All targets are 4 MOA or larger. 300yds is the longest shot.

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Hey since we're asking, I have a couple of goofy newbie questions of my own. Can we jettison things along the way? Maybe in the trash can at stages?
No. If you carry it in, you carry it out.

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Is it OK to adjust my (empty of course) rifle or other gear while running? For example, change my sling from two points to single point?

If I get debris from the mud pits (or wherever) in my rifle or scope, can I park off the running path until I get the situation rectified and then carry-on? Or how should I handle it?
Yes to both of these. The only time you CANNOT futz with gear is during "wait time". If you arrive at a shooting stage and there is a shooter ahead of you, you'll be told to start your "wait time". This is where the stopwatch you had BETTER have with you comes in. You are allowed to do nothing but stand there, exactly as you ran up to the stage, and wait. This "wait time" will be subtracted from your run time in the end as it's not your fault there was a back-up - but you should not benefit from it either.

At any other point in the run you can stop to rest, adjust gear, or whatever - as long as you don't load your weapon outside of a shooting area. The only thing you lose is that your run time keeps ticking away while you are doing this.

Another detail I've said before but probably haven't repeated enough: EYE AND EAR PROTECTION IS MANDATORY for the shooting stages. Yes, running in glasses and earpro sucks. Sorry. There are too many steel targets with ricochet chances, and we're shooting in a cave (?!?!?), so you've got to have them. The RO's won't let you shoot without them, and you'll zero the stage.

Either figure out a way to wear them for the entire course, or put them on before you get to the shooting stages and take them off when you're done and back running (which will take up time).

3G4V will be selling ear and eye protection at the Lodge if you forget yours. You can support the vets and get your required equipment all at the same time.
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Old March 14, 2017, 20:37   #540
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We just got hit with 20' of snow. Next year, you need to plan to run it in those conditions ...

I'm looking forward to all of the after match stories.
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Old March 14, 2017, 21:28   #541
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We just got hit with 20' of snow. Next year, you need to plan to run it in those conditions ...

I'm looking forward to all of the after match stories.
20 FEET?!?!?!? Holy crap man - you're a physics teacher! Surely you know the importance of units.

I would love to do one of these in snow one year. Makes travel rough though -
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Old March 14, 2017, 22:11   #542
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Simulate the northern snow by covering the entire course in used mattresses.
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Old March 15, 2017, 05:33   #543
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...Can we jettison things along the way?...
Like a pistol?
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Old March 15, 2017, 06:50   #544
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Like a pistol?
Hahahaha! That had better not happen here!
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Old March 15, 2017, 07:32   #545
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20 FEET?!?!?!? Holy crap man - you're a physics teacher! Surely you know the importance of units.

I would love to do one of these in snow one year. Makes travel rough though -
Inches, feet, whatever gets it done ... I'm just lucky my wife has no sense of dimension or spacial reasoning.

I'm excited for you guys. This is going to be awesome.
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Old March 15, 2017, 08:23   #546
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Okies shall be headed northeast in the morning. FOG has smoked some bologna for the trip, he's been packed and ready....I still haven't packed, but I did put ammo in mags last night. Looks like rain chances are down to 70%, that pretty well guarantees we'll get poured on Friday.
Tulsa is supposed to be 75 Friday, 85 Monday....I wish I could bring some of that with me.
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Old March 15, 2017, 09:33   #547
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Okies shall be headed northeast in the morning. FOG has smoked some bologna for the trip, he's been packed and ready....I still haven't packed, but I did put ammo in mags last night. Looks like rain chances are down to 70%, that pretty well guarantees we'll get poured on Friday.
Tulsa is supposed to be 75 Friday, 85 Monday....I wish I could bring some of that with me.
Awesome! Drive safe and we'll see you soon -
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Old March 15, 2017, 09:33   #548
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Inches, feet, whatever gets it done ... I'm just lucky my wife has no sense of dimension or spacial reasoning.

I'm excited for you guys. This is going to be awesome.
It's gonna be epic. Wish you were here!
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Old March 15, 2017, 14:38   #549
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Two last questions (for now.....)

Is the range open to the public? If so, is there somewhere on the range to do some last minute shooting on Friday? Not on the actual course, but maybe a 100 yd bay?

For the cave portion I have a headlamp, a handheld light and a quick detach light for my pistol. I don't however have a holster that will accommodate the mounted light. Once the pistol is drawn, is it allowed to then quickly mount the light to it? Unless I screw it up, it only takes a second or two to mount. I wouldn't care if that time is added to the run, I just don't want to surprise the r/o by doing that.

Is there a formal or informal meet and greet planned by anyone here on Friday night. Would be nice to meet you guys in person.

Pete
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Old March 15, 2017, 15:55   #550
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Rockcastle is a public range and they MAY have some shooting areas open Friday - but don't count on it. The intent is that you show up with your rifle as-is and ready to go. And we'll have ROs running the course Friday so most of the shooting areas will be taken.

I know the head RO for the cave is planning to do something similar with a weaponlight. The only caveat is that you do it carefully and do NOT sweep yourself or anyone else with the muzzle while doing so. And you will do it on the shoot clock, not the run clock - as you can't draw your loaded pistol until the start buzzer. And it would be kind of you to warn the RO you're going to do it before he starts the shoot clock.

The "meet and greet" is constant and always happening at the Lodge. It's a good bet everyone there will be competitors, so don't be shy and introduce yourself to everyone you see. If history is a guide, there will be lots of hijinks and socializing both Friday and Saturday night in the lobby, out front, and in the onsite bar. Don't wait for an invitation to join in - it really is a great atmosphere there.
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