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Old August 30, 2017, 15:24   #1
the gman
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Crack smoking Aussie

Look, with no offense to those who hail from Oz, just because you lived in Lithgow or are an Aussie doesn't mean you are an expert on the L1A1 or allow you to jack up the price of a rifle built on an Enterprise receiver....

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/676811525

$3,895 for a rifle whose chief claim to fame is it has a new US made barrel on it which is melonited and thus "Our barrels have an entirely different barrel harmonic than ordinary FAL/L1A1 due to the extra rigidity from the meloniting."

GTFO. I know the guy has a shop near Santa Fe but he needs to stop smoking the crap from Espanola and stop with asinine comments like the following: "Our customers say that these melonited barrels of ours shoot like lasers, this is not an ordinary FAL/L1A1 rifle so you cannot ask ordinary FAL/L1A1 builders about this rifles as they do not know anything about it."

If that wasn't bad enough, I guess I should order a 1260 round ammo can of SA surplus for the extraordinarily cheap price of only $1,739 plus shipping...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/688804612
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Old August 30, 2017, 17:12   #2
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We have been through this again and again-- seems about once a month. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it. Plain and simple. I have dealt with Anthony of Croc's Gun Shop and found him to be an extraordinarily knowledgeable and talented builder. He is a great fellow too. He built up my L1A1/SLR from my Aussie parts, barrel and Entreprise receiver-- and no, he didn't charge me anywhere close to this price. I was and still am very happy with his work.
My concern is whether we are going to open the doors to open criticism of others listings and pricing. Seems like a slippery slope.
And by the way, I have no ties to Anthony except as a satisfied customer.
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Old August 30, 2017, 17:57   #3
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I hope he does sell it for a high price, because its worth it - and so are all of mine, and yours also! if someone really wants it, well more should be so inspired - I have a US made Aussie barrel on an Aussie kit, Dsa Forged rcvr., and yes it shoots very well - I value it also as at least $3250 - if you know what i mean? You can't catch, if you don't fish?
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Old August 30, 2017, 19:18   #4
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blah blah blah,,,but do your rifels shoot like laizurz >?
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Old August 30, 2017, 19:24   #5
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Well he does say these are sub-moa "if you can shoot good".... I'm certainly not an expert, far from it...I would like to hear from the smart guys on this forum, on this being Gman always has good intentions! Especially if it keeps one of our new guys from buying something horribly priced and misrepresented. I would love to hear one of our resident smith's opinion...GP, WEG or one of the other "old" guys.
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Old August 30, 2017, 20:03   #6
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I would love for it to sell at that price. My insurance assessment will go up threefold, at least. I have several melonited barrels and they do shoot very well. So my opinion about them is still out as to why.

Anything "special", "rare", "custom built" used in the description of firearms makes me look closely at the product being sold. As posted above, documentation of a 1 MOA shooting FAL in a normal configuration would be more valuable than all the other stuff.
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Old August 30, 2017, 20:27   #7
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Well,

the gman runs his gob at times, but here he is correct. In my opinion the US barrels are way over priced regardless of melonite. I have four all Aussie guns, made from all NOS Aussie kits, except the DSA receivers, they all have NOS Lithgow barrels. They would currently not bring that price. That price is not within current market values. That said, you dont like it, dont buy it.

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Old August 30, 2017, 20:38   #8
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can we combine all the croc bashing threads into 1 big whine.
seems like every month some one "discovers" his stuff and then run as fast as they can to "the files" to post it while calling to their mother from the basement "Ma hey Ma guess what I just posted on the files"
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Old August 30, 2017, 21:01   #9
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Lots of THEM Kind out there, anything to make a buck-Greedy F@cks.

So, I'll throw my giant Penis over my shoulder and go on home.
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Old August 30, 2017, 21:50   #10
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can we combine all the croc bashing threads into 1 big whine.
seems like every month some one "discovers" his stuff and then run as fast as they can to "the files" to post it while calling to their mother from the basement "Ma hey Ma guess what I just posted on the files"
I did do a search using the Files search engine to see if anything had been posted about this guy before but only found one thread. FYI, I own my own home and support my own family so GFY.
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Old August 30, 2017, 22:22   #11
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Originally Posted by Kb466 View Post
We have been through this again and again-- seems about once a month. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it. Plain and simple. I have dealt with Anthony of Croc's Gun Shop and found him to be an extraordinarily knowledgeable and talented builder. He is a great fellow too. He built up my L1A1/SLR from my Aussie parts, barrel and Entreprise receiver-- and no, he didn't charge me anywhere close to this price. I was and still am very happy with his work.
My concern is whether we are going to open the doors to open criticism of others listings and pricing. Seems like a slippery slope.
And by the way, I have no ties to Anthony except as a satisfied customer.
Bill M.
No slippery slope. If someone's products are vastly overpriced then it is absolutely within the realm of reasonable criticism to say so. I get that he's your buddy and he did you right, I found that in the one thread about him I was able to find. If you'd been here long enough, you'd know that I'm originally from the UK and served in the British Army where I was trained to work on the L1A1 and actually carried one in harms way.

I saw no such information on your buddy other than he's an Aussie and lived in Lithgow at some point. Big whoop for him. Not saying he's untalented or unable to screw together a working L1A1 but when you're asking well over the odds for a rifle, slamming others out there who've forgotten more about the weapon than he's ever likely to know and claiming to be God's gift with extremely dubious and well disproven bullshit claims, he can expect be called to account for it. Bullshit like melonite makes barrels more rigid is absolute horseshit and calls into question his knowledge and talent.

FYI, I was involved in some testing of melonite barrels well over a decade ago and working with the largest supplier of melonite sevices for barrels in the US, even they didn't make such insane, unvalidated and outrageous claims. I prefer melonite on barrels and high wear items but it sure as hell doesn't make barrels any stiffer than chrome or park.

I too live in NM and the next time I'm over by Santa Fag, I'll try to make time to swing by his shop and tell him in person that I think he's full of shit. Hell, if he was to say that he uses Krieger or Shilen or any other extremely reputable premium barrel maker's products, then the price might be more justifiable. As it is, the price is ridiculous and no, I will never buy one because, as with his ammo prices, he is nothing more than a rip off merchant. Over a $1 a round for ammo that I was buying a decade ago for 14 cents a round delivered to ABQ? GTFO.
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Old August 31, 2017, 08:18   #12
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No, he's not my "buddy". I had one transaction with him and was very pleased, and impressed with the guy and his operation. He had the most impressive set of original Lithgow tools and parts that I had ever seen. I'm not going to argue with you or anyone else about his prices. I guess that is what his stuff is worth to him. But name-calling (horse shit, bullshit and ripoff merchant) is not "reasonable criticism". Posting links to his auctions and bashing someone you don't even know over his prices is not warranted and is probably a violation of this forum's rules. With that said, I am done with this.
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No slippery slope. If someone's products are vastly overpriced then it is absolutely within the realm of reasonable criticism to say so. I get that he's your buddy and he did you right, I found that in the one thread about him I was able to find. If you'd been here long enough, you'd know that I'm originally from the UK and served in the British Army where I was trained to work on the L1A1 and actually carried one in harms way.

I saw no such information on your buddy other than he's an Aussie and lived in Lithgow at some point. Big whoop for him. Not saying he's untalented or unable to screw together a working L1A1 but when you're asking well over the odds for a rifle, slamming others out there who've forgotten more about the weapon than he's ever likely to know and claiming to be God's gift with extremely dubious and well disproven bullshit claims, he can expect be called to account for it. Bullshit like melonite makes barrels more rigid is absolute horseshit and calls into question his knowledge and talent.

FYI, I was involved in some testing of melonite barrels well over a decade ago and working with the largest supplier of melonite sevices for barrels in the US, even they didn't make such insane, unvalidated and outrageous claims. I prefer melonite on barrels and high wear items but it sure as hell doesn't make barrels any stiffer than chrome or park.

I too live in NM and the next time I'm over by Santa Fag, I'll try to make time to swing by his shop and tell him in person that I think he's full of shit. Hell, if he was to say that he uses Krieger or Shilen or any other extremely reputable premium barrel maker's products, then the price might be more justifiable. As it is, the price is ridiculous and no, I will never buy one because, as with his ammo prices, he is nothing more than a rip off merchant. Over a $1 a round for ammo that I was buying a decade ago for 14 cents a round delivered to ABQ? GTFO.
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Old August 31, 2017, 08:29   #13
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The guy is full of shit. I don't care how "talented" one thinks he is, or what a "nice guy" he is, he is still full of shit. I would never deal with someone making such absurd claims. He can market his product for whatever price he wants, that isn't the issue. The issue is he is either delusional, or a liar, or both. As someone who should know better, I'm going to drop the delusional as an option, and just identify him as a liar.

Calling out a liar, as a liar, is discernment, not "name calling". It is an accurate identification and classification of observed reality. Calling him a piece of shit would be a value judgement and opinion of how a liar should be classified. But "Liar" and "Full of shit" (as a euphemism for liar) is simple fact.

You'd be much better off buying from me, because I bless each rifle with the tears of John Moses Browning, which I got from the Pope (JP2) when I was advising him, Ronnie, and Maggie, on ending the cold war.
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Old August 31, 2017, 09:08   #14
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I talked to him about that particular rifle, and he says it's $400-500 overpriced in his opinion.
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Old August 31, 2017, 09:11   #15
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The guy is full of shit. I don't care how "talented" one thinks he is, or what a "nice guy" he is, he is still full of shit. I would never deal with someone making such absurd claims. He can market his product for whatever price he wants, that isn't the issue. The issue is he is either delusional, or a liar, or both. As someone who should know better, I'm going to drop the delusional as an option, and just identify him as a liar.
Exactly this, IDGAS about his prices, and at those prices he will likely be hanging on to his merchandise for quite a while, totally his choice. It's the total BS in his ad that he uses to try and justify those prices that would make me hesitant to buy a wheelbarrow from this guy. I think the gman is quite justified in calling him out on that.

Also, even though a person is well within their rights to charge whatever they like for their product, we are also well within our right to call them out and warn others about it. It is often good for a laugh as well.
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Old August 31, 2017, 15:37   #16
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The guy is full of shit. I don't care how "talented" one thinks he is, or what a "nice guy" he is, he is still full of shit. I would never deal with someone making such absurd claims. He can market his product for whatever price he wants, that isn't the issue. The issue is he is either delusional, or a liar, or both. As someone who should know better, I'm going to drop the delusional as an option, and just identify him as a liar.

Calling out a liar, as a liar, is discernment, not "name calling". It is an accurate identification and classification of observed reality. Calling him a piece of shit would be a value judgement and opinion of how a liar should be classified. But "Liar" and "Full of shit" (as a euphemism for liar) is simple fact.

You'd be much better off buying from me, because I bless each rifle with the tears of John Moses Browning, which I got from the Pope (JP2) when I was advising him, Ronnie, and Maggie, on ending the cold war.
But won't the melonite rust if you leave the tears on it?

How exactly does he presume the melonite, by making the surface harder, is supposed to alter the overall stiffness of the barrel's core metal? I don't claim to be an expert on either subject but from what I do understand of both, the melonite treatment only penetrates a small amount into the outer part of the metal. I could see where it would reduce wear compared to plain steel barrels and where it would not alter the dimensions like chrome lining would (ever so slightly) but the rest of the metal in the barrel is still going to be the same as it was before, right? If I am missing something here, please let me know but the claim on its surface (if you'll pardon the pun) doesn't seem reasonable...
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Old August 31, 2017, 19:51   #17
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The farther from current market value the price is the more of an idiot the seller looks. People can "wish" values that high all day long. They can also shit in one hand and wish in the other to see which hand fills up first.
The guy is off his rocker with those prices, don't give a damn what a few fans say.
I agree with GP and Thorack.
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Old August 31, 2017, 22:11   #18
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Melonite

An interesting article. Melonite is the registered trade name owned by Durferritt for the Salt Bath Nitriding(SBN)process also commonly called just nitriding. SBN is well known by the gun industry used to provide improved corrosion resistance, resistance to wear and fatique and lubricity.

Doesn't say anything about improving accuracy.
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Old September 01, 2017, 00:55   #19
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And here I was thinking there was finally a thread all about ME
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Old September 01, 2017, 05:11   #20
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And here I was thinking there was finally a thread all about ME
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Old September 01, 2017, 07:21   #21
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Posting links to his auctions and bashing someone you don't even know over his prices is not warranted and is probably a violation of this forum's rules.
.
And just where do you draw that conclusion from ?
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Old September 01, 2017, 07:25   #22
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And here I was thinking there was finally a thread all about ME
No, THAT is against forum rules
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Old September 01, 2017, 10:18   #23
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And just where do you draw that conclusion from ?
Because he FEELS like it should be a violation, that's where.
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Old September 01, 2017, 11:17   #24
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Silly me !!!
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Old September 01, 2017, 11:25   #25
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No, he's not my "buddy". I had one transaction with him and was very pleased, and impressed with the guy and his operation. He had the most impressive set of original Lithgow tools and parts that I had ever seen. I'm not going to argue with you or anyone else about his prices. I guess that is what his stuff is worth to him. But name-calling (horse shit, bullshit and ripoff merchant) is not "reasonable criticism". Posting links to his auctions and bashing someone you don't even know over his prices is not warranted and is probably a violation of this forum's rules. With that said, I am done with this.
Bill M.
No newb, its not a violation of this forum's rules. Here's an idea: call H&M Metal Processing as they are the foremost suppliers of nitriding services to the gun industry and ask them if the process adds rigidity to the barrel...

http://blacknitride.com/contact-us/

Asking $8+ a gallon in a hurricane zone makes you a rip off merchant. As does asking over 3 times the going rate for ammo.

Words have meanings:

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rip-off
ˈrip ˌôf/
noun informal
noun: rip-off; plural noun: rip-offs; noun: ripoff; plural noun: ripoffs

a fraud or swindle, especially something that is grossly overpriced.
"designer label clothes are just expensive rip-offs"
synonyms: fraud, cheat, deception, swindle, confidence trick;
His claims are horseshit. Period. End of conversation. I can claim that my super coating for your engine will make it last longer, produce more horsepower and increase your sex drive but without empirical proof to back up my claims, it is entirely fair for someone to call me a bullshitter and a con man.

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con man
ˈkän man/
noun informal
noun: con man; plural noun: con men; noun: conman; plural noun: conmen; noun: con-man; plural noun: con-men; noun: con artist; plural noun: con artists

a man who cheats or tricks someone by gaining their trust and persuading them to believe something that is not true.
Now I'm done.
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Old September 01, 2017, 11:26   #26
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Melonite is like Vegemite, mates.

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Old September 01, 2017, 11:40   #27
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Bug,
Do your homework before you accuse me of making things up. Go look at the Forum Rules of Engagement above. Unlike you, I have looked at the forum rules and it seems to me that this discussion is clearly in violation of those rules. Personal attacks such as "full of shit", "liar", etc. seem to be non-professional, agenda-driven personal attacks that have no place on this forum.
As I have said, I have no ties to Croc's Gun Shop except as a one-time satisfied customer. I obviously can't stop you from slandering Anthony and then for the rest of you to delightedly pile on. But don't accuse me of making things up when you have no idea. That said-- i reallly am done with this...
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[QUOTE=Bug Tussell;4472210]Because he FEELS like it should be a violation, that's where.[/
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Old September 01, 2017, 12:06   #28
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@ gunplumber can i buy the just the blessing and if so how much? My fals have lost their way
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Old September 01, 2017, 14:18   #29
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[QUOTE=Kb466;4472242]Personal attacks such as "full of shit", "liar", etc. seem to be non-professional, agenda-driven personal attacks that have no place on this forum. QUOTE

Well, you obviously don't know the Files very well. If they are your idea of horrible, evil personal attacks, you need to retreat to the warm fuzzy comfort of, say, Arfcom or THR. Around here that stuff doesn't even come close to personal attacks. Even more so when the comments expressed are fundamentally true.

He is welcome to make any claims he wants, and to charge whatever he wishes, true enough. But that doesn't mean we have to buy it, literally or figuratively.He may be a great guy, may do great work, but that does not mean he is immune from people expressing their opinions or refusing to spend their money with him. Pretty simple, really.

Of course, if he can demonstrate that the rifle in question is in fact a true 1 moa FAL, the price wouldn't seem so bad. Of course, a FAL which can consistently shoot 1 moa is about as common as a dodo ( I would daresay nonexistent, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt ) so I'm inclined to view his claim with, shall we say, extreme skepticism.
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Old September 01, 2017, 14:33   #30
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I thought he was done with this discussion last time. I guess he felt he wasn't. I wonder if he will be done this time.

Yes, please educate me on forum rules. Especially the Feels section which I can't seem to find.

and now I'm really, really, super really, done, kinda sorta.
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Old September 01, 2017, 14:36   #31
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Old September 01, 2017, 15:08   #32
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I thought he was done with this discussion last time. I guess he felt he wasn't. I wonder if he will be done this time.

Yes, please educate me on forum rules. Especially the Feels section which I can't seem to find.

and now I'm really, really, super really, done, kinda sorta.
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Old September 01, 2017, 15:39   #33
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Personal attacks such as "full of shit", "liar", etc. . . . have no place on this forum.
Except he is "full of shit" . . . a liar. And he deserves to be called out on it.

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can't stop you from slandering Anthony
that word does not means what you apparently think it does.
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Old September 01, 2017, 15:45   #34
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Asking $8+ a gallon in a hurricane zone makes you a rip off merchant.
No, it makes you one who is aware of rapidly changing market conditions.

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As does asking over 3 times the going rate for ammo.
Nope - it just makes one a person who values the ammo more than most people in the market would, most of the time.
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Old September 01, 2017, 17:53   #35
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My 25 Centavos...

I regularly get this crap in my face at shows.
Have a great old Colt SAA, 1877 manufacture Cavalry pistol that someone fitted with an 1860 Army grip frame. Gun is tight as new, perfect bore.
Tagged it at $3200, I'd let it go for $2800

and there is always some asshat bitching about my price. Generally they offer like a grand after whining my valuation is way out of line.
I can take the damn thing apart and get well over two thousand in the damn parts.
but it's not matching !!!
I Don't give a shit...if it was it would be $7000+

My response is to laugh straight in their face telling them "That's not going to happen" then just turning my back on them.

Pops had an asshole try to offer under a grand on a preban FN Belgian FAL recently. See, he claimed he only wanted the RECEIVER !

We get this crap on a routine basis

Anyways I don't sweat what someone wants for whatever. That's THEIR business

As far as melonite, etc
Cavat Emptor

I shoot vintage English Parker Hale rifles
Have both Whitworth and Henry rifled percussions from the 1970s

Folks make crazy claims over the hex bore Whitworth
truth be told in my experience the Henry rifling is more accurate for me.

Cyro processing was a real fad years ago. It actually effected molecular level changes in barrels. Sometimes accuracy improved, sometimes no change.
I generally only used it before having older Nickel Steel Winchester barrel recut to larger bores as it eliminated the common issues with chatter but many acted as though it was the bees knees for ultimate accuracy

Anyways I read claims on GunJoker as just that, claims
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Old September 01, 2017, 18:07   #36
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There's always someone out there who simply doesn't know what they are talking about. I had some stereotypical Opie in an NRA hat and padded vest ruin the sale of a nice clean Browning Auto 5 shotgun for me by telling the buyer that the gun was obviously refinished because "the metal should be slightly raised around that roll marked decorative pattern on the receiver." Even a casual Browning enthusiast knows that every single grade 1 Auto 5 and Superposed shotgun from tbe early 50s onward was hand engraved before final polish and bluing.
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Old September 01, 2017, 18:29   #37
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....that word does not means what you apparently think it does.

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Old September 01, 2017, 18:29   #38
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While I have gone toe to toe with each over a thing or three if Gman and GP agree on a general concept have to let respect for their knowledge of the gun industry as a whole and the FAL especially that it's better to take their advice on the front end than have regrets on the rear end. This "Croc" fellow I have no personal knowledge of nor done business with him to say anything negative or positive about his knowledge or the quality of his builds but when I read the quote I can't help but ponder who would make such a statement:

Quote:
Our barrels have an entirely different barrel harmonic than ordinary FAL/L1A1 due to the extra rigidity from the meloniting
Have sent barrels off for cryofreezing, the once popular "Blackstar Microscopic Polishing", deep salt bath treatment a.k.a. Melonite and multiple finishes that were purely cosmetic or had some new proprietary process that claimed aided in accuracy or durability. There is no way I can see how Melonite or deep salt bath treating can cause any significant change in barrel harmonics. Having a barrel fluted, changing muzzle devices and other things can change harmonics of a barrel immensely. Just changing the torque value of a muzzle device will change its harmonics. Can take a rifle and put muzzle device "A" on and shoot for groups, retension muzzle device and group size will change. Swap to muzzle device "B" shoot, retension again and group size changes again. There have been barrels have swapped muzzle device three to five times with three different torque values per device till found device that shot best on that barrel. Cryofreezing can help with accuracy as the deep freeze rearranges and aligns molecules in the steel just enough to stabilize harmonics and decrease shot to shot stringing.

Over the years have spent a lot of money having almost everything done to a barrel possible. Machine just enough off rear of barrel to allow recutting chamber to match dimensions and throat to desired length, flutes cut for changing harmonics or cooling surface area, send of for freezing or deep salt bath treatment, buying Shilen, Douglas, Kreiger, or others to be sent to a smith for profiling, chambering and assembling on blueprinted actions. Had one smith that built my bolt action rifles that had three basic muzzle breaks, once rifle was built would try each then whichever shot best according to way it grouped and his experience would alter ports in the brake till wrung all accuracy possible out of barrel similar to what the Browning BOSS System attempted. Give the shooter an ability to,adjust barrel harmonics to load.

A lifetime of spending "F Class" along with lightweight and midweight benchrest barrel money have learned a lot about bedding actions, free floating barrels, pressure pads on barrels, flutes, brakes and little tricks like lapping throats, setting up rifles with no free bore or extra free bore like Weatherby have learned a few things. First is a quality rifle smith is worth his weight in gold. But one thing I can say is that giving an FAL barrel a deep salt bath by any name no matter it's country of origin is going to make it shoot like a laser. Too many variables in the FAL design such as heavy and mushy triggers (can be improved but not to match quality safely), vertical stringing due to bolt carriers fit in rails (can snug it up some but too much and gun will bind up), fact that it's a repeater and add in its piston operated which negatively affects barrel harmonics and so many other little things stacking up adding to accuracy issues.

If someone is consistently building sub MOA FAL mixmasters seems like everyone on the Files would have heard of it, would be topic regularly discussed and I would already have three. Sell me a fair priced FAL that groups under 1 MOA and after 500 rounds if still shooting sub MOA will buy another. If it shoots sub MOA and holds true for 500 rounds and first is still near 1 MOA at 1,000 rounds will buy a third. Market a $2,000 1 MOA out of the box FAL and you will have a waiting list. But dipping it in molten salt and calling it magic voodoo makes me want to get in line behind Gman as I know he has shot barrels pre melonite and post melonite treated enough to know if there is voodoo in the hot salt he would have whispered it in our ears years ago.

No dog in the hunt except want a 1 MOA FAL really bad and out of all have purchased or screwed together only one L1a1 will do it and I paid up when purchased from an elderly Files member clearing out a premium collection. So yes it's possible but not common. Does this Cockodile character have a uTube video showing his rifles (not rifle) but rifles plural dropping five rounds in an inch at 100 yards? If so I may need to actually consider following the link.
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Old September 01, 2017, 21:56   #39
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Old September 02, 2017, 16:50   #40
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LMFAO more ads for Anthony kept it up mate

Silly sepo


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Look, with no offense to those who hail from Oz, just because you lived in Lithgow or are an Aussie doesn't mean you are an expert on the L1A1 or allow you to jack up the price of a rifle built on an Enterprise receiver....

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/676811525

$3,895 for a rifle whose chief claim to fame is it has a new US made barrel on it which is melonited and thus "Our barrels have an entirely different barrel harmonic than ordinary FAL/L1A1 due to the extra rigidity from the meloniting."

GTFO. I know the guy has a shop near Santa Fe but he needs to stop smoking the crap from Espanola and stop with asinine comments like the following: "Our customers say that these melonited barrels of ours shoot like lasers, this is not an ordinary FAL/L1A1 rifle so you cannot ask ordinary FAL/L1A1 builders about this rifles as they do not know anything about it."

If that wasn't bad enough, I guess I should order a 1260 round ammo can of SA surplus for the extraordinarily cheap price of only $1,739 plus shipping...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/688804612
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Old September 02, 2017, 18:29   #41
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Smile

Anthony Ask me to post this to you wankers , now that's only address to the wankers and you know who you are. So please don't take offense if you are a non wanker.

Enjoy you godless poofs

Here is a fact that none of those big mouth wankers ever considered;
My barrels have a different harmonic because of;
1.) twist rate is faster at 1in10 instead of the older 1in12. This makes a huge difference and no one has mentioned the twist rate which goes to show that they don't comprehend what they read.
2.) The meloniting does several things such as stress relieves the barrel and stiffening it. I'm not sure what they are imagining stiffen means.
The harmonic is changed mostly by the twist rate and to a lesser extent by the meloniting.
3.) I've sold 7 of these and everyone is getting sub MOA once they learn to shoot the rifle.
4.) These rifles with melonited barrels shoot better than normal barrels and far better than the average military barrel.
I have been building rifles with melonited barrels for almost 7 years now. I have far more practical experience than these guys who know so little about meloniting that they have To go ask someone about it. Can you believe their blind arrogance is making them look like fools.
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Old September 02, 2017, 18:45   #42
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Old September 02, 2017, 18:57   #43
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Old September 02, 2017, 20:26   #44
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Anthony Ask me to post this to you wankers ,
1.) twist rate is faster at 1in10 instead of the older 1in12. This makes a huge difference and no one has mentioned the twist rate which goes to show that they don't comprehend what they read.
bullshit. twist relates to sectional density, more commonly (because it often is the same) bullet weight.* Unless the bullets are in the 165-175g 1-10 doesn't mean shit.

Quote:
2.) The meloniting does several things such as stress relieves the barrel and stiffening it. I'm not sure what they are imagining stiffen means.
The harmonic is changed mostly by the twist rate and to a lesser extent by the meloniting.
Bullshit. Harmonics is a function of profile, not twist. A shorter barrel of the same diameter vibrates (harmonics) faster, but over a shorter sine wave. Thus a shorter barrel will be more accurate than a longer barrel of the same diameter, within it's transonic envelope. Adding a harmonic dampener will mitigate the larger sine wave of a longer barrel, which is why my olympic grade air rifles all had "muzzle weights" and why some have speculated the StG "stoll" muzzle device contributes to accuracy (but I digress).

Quote:
3.) I've sold 7 of these and everyone is getting sub MOA once they learn to shoot the rifle.
bullshit

Quote:
4.) These rifles with melonited barrels shoot better than normal barrels and far better than the average military barrel.
1/2 bullshit. A commercial high grade barrel will shoot better than a military grade barrel most of the time. Meloniting is irrelevant.

Quote:
I have been building rifles with melonited barrels for almost 7 years now. I have far more practical experience than these guys who know so little about meloniting that they have To go ask someone about it. Can you believe their blind arrogance is making them look like fools.
I've been building FAL type rifles FOR A F-CKING LIVING for 25 years now. Somewhere between 3500 and 4000, last count. And every once in a while, some jackass comes up with the newest claims to fame. And they are ALWAYS shot down by reality.

I have no doubt that a quality commercial barrel will shoot well. But you (Anthony) remain FULL OF SHIT and I have no hesitation staking my considerable, (infamous, if you choose) reputation on it.

Scoped, from a machine rest, your rifles will not shoot a consistent, sub-MOA anything. So go f-ck yourself, loser.

(Wait, was that impolite?)

*The Greenhill formula (T = 150 * D^2 / L) didn't include velocity. It used a constant of 150 for "typical" rifle velocities. Some recommend replacing it with 180 for velocities above 2800 fps. But we're not, we're at 2750 from a 21" barrel, most of the time - with UK and Aussie ammo consistently chronographing less than US ammo. In 1962, Bowman added velocity to the formula. Higher velocities = greater spin. (T = 3.5 * V^0.5 * D^2 / L) Later, different constants were added to take into account different bullet densities (Specific Gravity), which I researched in depth during the 1-6 v 1-7, 5.45x39 AK74u debate. And concluded that it was bullet length more than sectional density (although they often correlated). And that agrees with the slight variations to the Greenhill formula, by Warren Page, Andy Barniskis & the Klaus Klein Regression Formulas. A bunch of mumbo jumbo resulting in the same conclusion - you are full of shit.
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Old September 02, 2017, 22:13   #45
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[QUOTE=gunplumber;4472941]bullshit. twist relates to sectional density, more commonly (because it often is the same) bullet weight.* Unless the bullets are in the 165-175g 1-10 doesn't mean shit.

Twist rate relates to the pitch of the rifling.
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Old September 03, 2017, 07:28   #46
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[QUOTE=y18376;4472987]
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bullshit. twist relates to sectional density, more commonly (because it often is the same) bullet weight.* Unless the bullets are in the 165-175g 1-10 doesn't mean shit.

Twist rate relates to the pitch of the rifling.
Which of course translates to the rotation rate of the bullet and hence the stability of the bullet which is a prime factor in accuracy. Hence, GP is functionally correct.
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Old September 03, 2017, 09:24   #47
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(chuckle) I think y18376 was trying to be cute. Or maybe acute.

I've contemplated having some L1A1 barrels made and was considering a 6 groove 1-11 twist.

And I'd have them hard chromed.
But it will have to wait as I have another project I'm saving for right now.
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Old September 03, 2017, 09:35   #48
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GP,

You cant just drop that here and leave it. You wanna start a crowd funding campaign? For a quality Chromelined inch barrel I'm in.

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Old September 03, 2017, 14:05   #49
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I am intrigued with the ones from Utah. If they had quantity pricing, I might bite. But I'm trying to fund another project right now that I want finished by Christmas, and that means I really can't spend any money right now on long-term projects.
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Old September 03, 2017, 14:18   #50
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I am intrigued with the ones from Utah. If they had quantity pricing, I might bite. But I'm trying to fund another project right now that I want finished by Christmas, and that means I really can't spend any money right now on long-term projects.
Count me in as well, like everyone else, got a couple bucks sitting in an account not doing shit.
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