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Old October 29, 2018, 11:09   #1
BarnOwlLover
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Thoughts on socket vs knife bayonets

This is about knife vs socket bayonets and the merits and disadvantages of both.

For instance, the FN FAL and FNC have used both types. The FAL went from a knife bayonet when it had no flash hider or the G-Series flash hider, to a socket bayonet when they switched to the 22mm grenade launcher flash hider.

The FNC went the opposite direction. It originally used the FAL's socket bayonet, then standardized on the US M7 pattern bayonet.

So what are the advantages and disadvantages to both patterns? I actually favor the knife bayonet, since it can be used as a knife and, especially on a select fire rifle, should be easier to remove after firing.
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Old October 29, 2018, 12:50   #2
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A knife bayonet is clearly more versatile than a simple socket, and both will stab things equally well. However, I'd rather carry another magazine than a pointy thing made to go on the end of the barrel to make a shitty spear.
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Old October 29, 2018, 17:47   #3
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I'm understanding that the mere sound of a bayonet being affixed is sufficient to prevent most home invasions, making the carry of loaded magazines largely obsolete.

You cant go wrong with whichever bayonet makes the most noise when being installed. Loud knives save lives. True story.
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Old October 29, 2018, 18:36   #4
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I'm understanding that the mere sound of a bayonet being affixed is sufficient to prevent most home invasions, making the carry of loaded magazines largely obsolete.

You cant go wrong with whichever bayonet makes the most noise when being installed. Loud knives save lives. True story.
I believe that a "bad guy" in the wrong place that never, ever saw a gun in his life will recognize an 870 pumping or a 1911 racking as "bad news".

The visual of a someone mounting a bayonet would get their attention for sure. The audio, I'm not so sure about???
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Old October 30, 2018, 07:40   #5
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I believe that a "bad guy" in the wrong place that never, ever saw a gun in his life will recognize an 870 pumping or a 1911 racking as "bad news".

The visual of a someone mounting a bayonet would get their attention for sure. The audio, I'm not so sure about???
I know I have a visual of one hand clapping fixing a bayonet in her driveway as she wards off invaders to her home. That image sure made an impression on me that I will never forget!
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Old October 30, 2018, 09:12   #6
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Sidestep the bayonet charge.
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Old October 30, 2018, 12:49   #7
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I believe that a "bad guy" in the wrong place that never, ever saw a gun in his life will recognize an 870 pumping as "bad news".
As a kid I was told by an LEO that the most bone chilling sound you could ever hear in a dark room is the sound of an 870 being racked to load.

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Old October 31, 2018, 12:20   #8
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As a kid I was told by an LEO that the most bone chilling sound you could ever hear in a dark room is the sound of an 870 being racked to load.

Jarhead
Most shitheads won't take advantage of it, but, if ain't already loaded, yer well behind the curve.
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Old October 31, 2018, 15:04   #9
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Depends on what you want to use it for.
If you're gonna be using it for the intended purpose, the longest, pointiest bayonet available is best.
If you want a multi-purpose tool that will never be used in Combat, the short, bladed type is the way to go.
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Old November 02, 2018, 11:31   #10
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A good friend of mine is deathly afraid of puncture-type bayonets...like the Enfields use.
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Old November 04, 2018, 14:47   #11
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A favorite research subject... the modern pike, in an equine-free field of action.

Bayonet only has one point: there will be no time/option, for a reload.

Without experience with the durability of either, in designed use, I would choose fixing a socket, not a barrel ring and tang lock. Socket beats barrel ring and tang lock, on the clock. Gross motor, vs fine motor, in presumed high stress moments.

Dang, I recently met a SAS trooper, that vacationed in the Falklands and forgot to ask if his unit had fixed, or transfixed, any issues. He related a host of other L1A1 combat lore, sorry I missed that detail.
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Last edited by snowhawk jockey; November 04, 2018 at 14:54. Reason: Puncturation
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Old November 04, 2018, 19:40   #12
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Maybe the right attire helps
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
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Old November 05, 2018, 02:15   #13
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A favorite research subject... the modern pike, in an equine-free field of action.

Bayonet only has one point: there will be no time/option, for a reload.

.
Not true.

(Other than a club) a gun can only be used for one thing, and many people think you won't shoot.

When I got hurt I got put on detainee watch. Some wanted to fight.

EVERYONE has been cut at one time or another, and a point gets respect.
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I notice no one ever debates whether a .30 is an adequate stopper...
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Old November 06, 2018, 09:43   #14
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Not true.

(Other than a club) a gun can only be used for one thing, and many people think you won't shoot.

When I got hurt I got put on detainee watch. Some wanted to fight.

EVERYONE has been cut at one time or another, and a point gets respect.
Thank you for the addition to my understanding, with your personal experience!

Very true words about respecting the point, when faced with it. Guards were often depicted with fixed bayonets and I never connected the dots... I hadnt considered the importance of administrative use, as a deterrant.
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Old November 06, 2018, 11:59   #15
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Never bring a "knife" to a gunfight

If you want to scare the bad guy in the house, wear a Hallowe'en mask. If you want to live, shoot him.

On the other hand, if you are worried about trench warfare in your backyard, have at it with the pigstickers
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Old November 06, 2018, 12:18   #16
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On the other hand, if you are worried about trench warfare in your backyard, have at it with the pigstickers
Are you saying that you are not worried about such an eventuality?
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Old November 06, 2018, 12:40   #17
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Are you saying that you are not worried about such an eventuality?
I think it unlikely during my lifetime and were it to happen, there are better options than pigstickers. Not to say that they aren't in inventory, just that a sufficient ammo supply has a much higher return on investment.
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Old November 06, 2018, 16:59   #18
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Never bring a "knife" to a gunfight

If you want to scare the bad guy in the house, wear a Hallowe'en mask. If you want to live, shoot him.

On the other hand, if you are worried about trench warfare in your backyard, have at it with the pigstickers

set claymores and wait until the area is packed,

set off claymores,

wait 30 minutes and go out and stick each one in the neck to make sure
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Old November 06, 2018, 18:12   #19
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set claymores and wait until the area is packed,

set off claymores,

wait 30 minutes and go out and stick each one in the neck to make sure
I was thinking fougasse as an appetizer ( and I don't mean the bread )
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“I respect the government only in the sense that I respect any other dangerous predator who views me as food.”

“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee
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Old November 07, 2018, 23:35   #20
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I think it unlikely during my lifetime and were it to happen, there are better options than pigstickers. Not to say that they aren't in inventory, just that a sufficient ammo supply has a much higher return on investment.
May you also be blessed with the supply of time and space for administrative mag changes.
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Old November 08, 2018, 00:11   #21
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I keep my browning hi power under my pillow, a glock 17 on the shelf arms distance away. Vest is hanging on the bedpost. boots next to bed. I also have a cold steel hand and half sword next to the bed along with a shotgun. I think if I was a dirt bag intruder and I came across a naked man in boots with a large sword I would run away.
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Old November 08, 2018, 08:09   #22
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May you also be blessed with the supply of time and space for administrative mag changes.
And the time to pull the bayonet out of one perp before these hordes we are defending against get to us.
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"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser

“I respect the government only in the sense that I respect any other dangerous predator who views me as food.”

“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee
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Old November 08, 2018, 11:30   #23
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Wish I could of asked Lewis Millett which he preferred, but never got the chance. American's were considered afraid of bayonets according to Chinese propaganda during the Korean Conflict, but Millett proved them wrong.

One of the enemy that he bayoneted in his charge, he lifted completely off the ground throwing him up and over himself.

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Old November 09, 2018, 04:26   #24
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And the time to pull the bayonet out of one perp before these hordes we are defending against get to us.
I've always found it funny the SOP for if your blade gets stuck in someone...

They tell you to pull the trigger.

Why wouldn't do that first if you could...
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I notice no one ever debates whether a .30 is an adequate stopper...
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Old November 09, 2018, 14:49   #25
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I've always found it funny the SOP for if your blade gets stuck in someone...

They tell you to pull the trigger.

Why wouldn't do that first if you could...
My dad was a WW11 vet he talk about sticking someone with a bayonet. He said they would grab the rifle sometimes and have a death grip on it so they couldn't push it in more or pull it out. Other old vets told it happen to them to. A boot to the chest for more leverage to pull it out The rifle metal buttplate a blow to the chest or face bring them down. That why I guess why he won a silver star and two brozen stars.
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Old Today, 00:56   #26
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I had an encounter many years ago which gave me food for thought on this subject.

I was living in an apartment - 2 floor building with entrances and stairwells facing out (no indoor hallways). My buddies, who lived upstairs from me, and I were coming back from an evening out. As we came up to the building we saw a guy vigorously attempting to wrench their door open.

One of my buddies told the guy "Hey, you don't live there!" - and a group of guys came out of the shadows, yelling abuse and such, slowly converging on us.

By that point I was close enough to my door and had my keys out so I ran in and got a Winchester Defender (12 gauge) and racked the slide as I came back out the door. That calmed things down considerably but a couple of them still wanted to talk about the situation - making excuses that their buddy was just drunk, wrong apartment, etc. One of them even said I was an a$$#ole for escalating things. That's the point when I wish I had had something pointy - "scary" if you have to put it that way - to give me an option between "shoot/no-shoot".
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