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Old January 08, 2017, 00:35   #1
michael_g927
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M1A mfgs

So is Springfield the only M1A mfgs? Is there any one that makes a real forged M1A?
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Old January 08, 2017, 06:07   #2
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M1A is a trademark and only Springfield Armory Inc. can us it.
There are many other makers of M-14 clones.

Current producers of proven reliable M14 clones.
SAI - cast receiver.
Fulton - cast receiver.
LRB - Hammer forged
Bula - Hammer forged
JRA - Uses Bula Defense Systems produced hammer forged receivers.

There have been many others over the years, but these are the ones still in business and supporting the hobby.

Semper Fi
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Old January 08, 2017, 08:41   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtBanks View Post
M1A is a trademark and only Springfield Armory Inc. can us it.
There are many other makers of M-14 clones.

Current producers of proven reliable M14 clones.
SAI - cast receiver.
Fulton - cast receiver.
LRB - Hammer forged
Bula - Hammer forged
JRA - Uses Bula Defense Systems produced hammer forged receivers.

There have been many others over the years, but these are the ones still in business and supporting the hobby.

Semper Fi
Art

You missed the prick from Arizona.
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Old January 08, 2017, 09:11   #4
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You missed the prick from Arizona.
Nope, didn't miss the jerk at all. He has been out of the receiver business for quite some time now. His last marketing venture through Crocks proved to be a crock. His last batch of receivers were crappola.

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Old January 08, 2017, 09:24   #5
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Can't go wrong with a JRA

https://www.classicfirearms.com/m14-...-cal-semi-auto
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Old January 08, 2017, 10:09   #6
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M1a vs M14

As previously mentioned SAI owns the designation of M1a, as at the time ATF rulings said you couldn't have an M14 (as if the engraving on the receiver made it shoot faster) w/o Class III registration. It was semantics, and now manufacturers can use M14 on their rifles.

Bula Forging is the current USGI contractor (SEI lost this in 2015) and produces excellent hammer-forged receivers and parts. They are the current way to go for quality.
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Old January 08, 2017, 10:58   #7
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What happened to 7.62mm Firearms? Did they fold, and someone took over the production with a new name (and better quality control?) Seems like I quit hearing about 7.62 about the same time I started hearing about Bula.....
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Old January 08, 2017, 11:54   #8
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What happened to 7.62mm Firearms? Did they fold, and someone took over the production with a new name (and better quality control?) Seems like I quit hearing about 7.62 about the same time I started hearing about Bula.....
7.62 moved from Oh to Fla and changed their name to TRW Tactial Respone Weapons I think is the moniker they are currently using. Same owner ceo.
Just beware.
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Old January 08, 2017, 20:38   #9
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7.62 moved from Oh to Fla and changed their name to TRW Tactial Respone Weapons I think is the moniker they are currently using. Same owner ceo.
Just beware.
That's kinda weird since their must be more hammer forges and expert, seasoned machinists and machining equipment in Ohio than in Florida.

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Old January 08, 2017, 20:40   #10
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Bula Forging is the current USGI contractor (SEI lost this in 2015) and produces excellent hammer-forged receivers and parts. They are the current way to go for quality.

Yeah. And what makes them more kewl and special is that they are made from Un-obtainium, unless your name is Art Banks, then you can buy/receive all you want. The rest of us mere mortals are only allowed to lust after the pics posted here on FALFILES.

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Old January 08, 2017, 23:42   #11
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How much can I guy expect to spend on a good forged rifle?
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Old January 09, 2017, 01:30   #12
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Nope, didn't miss the jerk at all. He has been out of the receiver business for quite some time now. His last marketing venture through Crocks proved to be a crock. His last batch of receivers were crappola.

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What was wrong with them?
A friend of mine got 2 from Crocks in the last batch, he has expressed no complaints to me.
Not disagreeing with you, just curious.
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Old January 09, 2017, 05:40   #13
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How much can I guy expect to spend on a good forged rifle?
It looks like $2500 average for a quality, safe, reliable and accurate mil-spec grade M-14 clone. Price may not include shipping, insurance and time and energy spent gathering all that is required to get an above mentioned 'forged' M-14 clone. You will have to have at least that much plus a lot patience.

Go to LRB's and JRA's websites for more information. Even if you can do most of work building one correctly, you are still looking at > $2K, unless you bought a copious amount of fresh, surplused USGI parts back in the '70's and early '80"s, which would tell us that you are so old that you don't have to worry about a rifle being "forged" anyway. It will take around 100K rounds to wear out a properly made 4140 cast receiver, so depending on how much you shoot, how much you can spend on ammo and your ACCESS to that much 308 WIN, you decide if you need the forging. A forged USGI M-14 and M-1 were rated around 300K.

Oh yeah, I want a hammer forged LRB on too, so I'm ain't flamin' you brother.

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Old January 09, 2017, 05:55   #14
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That's kinda weird since their must be more hammer forges and expert, seasoned machinists and machining equipment in Ohio than in Florida.

Jarhead
Last time I visited Chris at 7.62mm in Ohio he was using barstock like SEI did which is technically hammer forged square but not the true hammer forged into a die for his receivers like LRB and Bula. He was running the CNC machines by himself.

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Old January 09, 2017, 06:03   #15
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What was wrong with them?
A friend of mine got 2 from Crocks in the last batch, he has expressed no complaints to me.
Not disagreeing with you, just curious.
I will bet your friend didn't try to install a scope mount on one. The ones I have seen could not be used with an ARMs mount, but with effort a Sadlak could be installed. The vertical cut in the left side of the receivers appear to be off, at least on the ones I have seen. I agree they are pretty to look at.
There are just way better examples available. This is a personal opinion only.
If you friend is happy with his , that is the counter.

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Old January 09, 2017, 12:04   #16
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We live in a world of cast this and plastic that. If something was made a certain way originally, then I always opt for the original. That is unless the originol is inferior to the modern version. This is why the only 1911 I have is a plain Ole Milspec Springfield Armory. Could have bought any other version.
With the M14, I could opt for a SA M1A NTL Match. But that ain't real now is it? These guns are just to look at. I have modern rifles to shoot. That said, I still like to look at who we are by where we came from.
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Old January 09, 2017, 13:41   #17
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I like my SEI with TRW parts. I had it built with a mount so no idea if installing was hard. The lettering could've been a little deeper on the heel.
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Old January 09, 2017, 23:13   #18
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We live in a world of cast this and plastic that. If something was made a certain way originally, then I always opt for the original. That is unless the originol is inferior to the modern version. This is why the only 1911 I have is a plain Ole Milspec Springfield Armory. Could have bought any other version.
With the M14, I could opt for a SA M1A NTL Match. But that ain't real now is it? These guns are just to look at. I have modern rifles to shoot. That said, I still like to look at who we are by where we came from.
WTF are you talking about? Ain't real? Guns just to look at? I gar-ran-fuggin-tee. YOU- WILL NOT STAND, SIT or arrange your body in ANY MANNER, WILLINGLY on the other side of a muzzle from modern semi-automatic-military-styled-look-a-like and test to see if that bullet from such as piece will put a nice big hole in yo' aze. NOPE.. NONE. EVER.

Just for shits and giggles, do this: Try to find where one person has ever worn out a cast 4140 M-14 clone receiver from shooting it out. Pro-tip: Which part "wears out' as to it not being safe to shoot anymore? Anyone?

It is the Firing Pin Bridge NOTCH. This is the notch in the "bridge" in the aft part of an M-14 and M-1 type rifle whose purpose in life is to catch the firing pin aND retain it aft long enough so the TIP of the firing pin does not mate with the primer of a round going into the chamber, If it does, BOOM! you have a Firing Out Of Battery. When that notch wears out, or gets thin to the point where it can no longer hold the firing pin back, the gummit would cut the receiver into pieces as that part of the rifle is no longer serviceable and is now dangerous.

The bilateral locks or ramps in the front of the receiver that create proper headspace also wear out too which can render the receiver inoperable. But let's get back to our original journey and find someone, somewhere, who, on his own nickel, shot an M-14 clone to death. Shit, J.Q. Publik can't even shoot out a Glock, which also requires hundreds of thousands of rounds to condemn it.

Mikey I know what you are saying about "originality" as it relates to quality, but there are MILLIONS of military clones that perform perfectly well under all levels of duress and if properly maintained, will last the lifetime of the owner, his chirrun and his chirrun's chirruns.

HTH,
Jarhead
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Old January 10, 2017, 00:41   #19
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What dog you have in this fight? I appreciate the time you took to type all that. I don't care to argue about the virtues of cast/forged or any other debatable topic. If I wanted cast, I would buy a Ruger.
I agree that there are better clones than their originals, but in this case, I want as close to the original as I can get. M14 is not like Garand. You won't get a real one. But if there is a forged rifle made with real GI parts for a few hundred more than the cast commercial equivalent, that money is well spent.
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Old January 10, 2017, 02:58   #20
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I will bet your friend didn't try to install a scope mount on one. The ones I have seen could not be used with an ARMs mount, but with effort a Sadlak could be installed. The vertical cut in the left side of the receivers appear to be off, at least on the ones I have seen. I agree they are pretty to look at.
There are just way better examples available. This is a personal opinion only.
If you friend is happy with his , that is the counter.
Thank you, sir. And no, he has not tried to add a scope mount. they are purely indeed. I will give him a polite heads up at some point. I only own a 1991 Springfield M1A standard, but I was curious.
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Old January 10, 2017, 18:29   #21
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If I wanted cast, I would buy a Ruger.
A Mini 14 is a .223 miniature Ruger, which is not what this thread is talking about.
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Old January 11, 2017, 21:57   #22
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The Ruger comment was a sarcastic quality joke .
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Old January 13, 2017, 18:00   #23
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My personal favorite is GWLA
They are closing out their receivers excuse me they are closed now
Ted Browm in OR reviewed hem and said they are closer to USGI specs than any other manufacturer
They just hit most people to high in the pocket book (price point)
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Old January 13, 2017, 18:46   #24
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[QUOTE=dashaus;4355437]My personal favorite is GWLA
They are closing out their receivers
Ted Browm in OR reviewed hem and said they are closer to USGI specs than any other manufacturer
They just hit most people to high in the pocket book (price point)


Could you point to where Ted posted about them being closer to USGI than any other manufacturers. That would be interesting to see , and I think there just might be some debate. I know he had them make some corrections on the first one they sent him for evaluation but never noticed what you have commented on in his reviews.
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Old January 13, 2017, 18:48   #25
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Review posted by Ted Brown letter on GWLA web site

http://nebula.wsimg.com/479a764ed9d0...&alloworigin=1

Also reviews posted by Ted on m14 forum

http://m14forum.com/ted-brown/258506...receivers.html

Ted wrote quite a lot about their receivers forget which link I read
http://m14forum.com/ted-brown/


Don't think any of the manufactures listed above "truly make a Mil Spec receiver"
Technology has changed and manufacturing processes also
Semi auto variations aren't exact copies of a full auto USGI M14
Ploytech M14 receivers are probably the closest one can get to owning a USGI M14 receiver
But there is a hole in the receiver threaded for an allen screw to hold the barrel

Why not become a contributing member to the forum...

Ted is building a GWLA with a "NOS"1976 SAK NM medium profile barrel for me
On the phone he sounded enthusiastic about the build see how it shakes out

Do you own a GWLA receiver?
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Old January 13, 2017, 19:03   #26
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You should go and re read all of the evaluations Sir. I think you may have made a small mis interpretation.

He did say.
"Overall, these receivers compare favorably with other high end receivers on the market today".

Nothing about them being closer to USGI spec. In fact there were negatives about lug dimension and other slight imperfections which I am sure would have been corrected if they were around long enough to work the bugs out.

I have heard other folks try to say that they are perfect, but no one that has actually done a review and knows what they are talking about.
There are reasons they only lasted a year in business.
Might be a novelty, but that is about it in my opinion.

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Old January 13, 2017, 19:29   #27
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No problem at all.
Good luck with your build.
I was close to getting one of their receivers to try myself, but decided to stay with the two makers I am familiar with.
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Old January 13, 2017, 21:21   #28
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No problem at all.
Good luck with your build.
I was close to getting one of their receivers to try myself, but decided to stay with the two makers I am familiar with.
Please keep us posted on the Bula Forge M-14 clone receiver and parts project(s). I'm working on getting the cash together for an LRB and your Buila Forge pieces appear to be excellent. Also in the savings budget is my trip to CT to get you to barrel said receivers.

Jarhead
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Old January 14, 2017, 05:51   #29
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Please keep us posted on the Bula Forge M-14 clone receiver and parts project(s). I'm working on getting the cash together for an LRB and your Buila Forge pieces appear to be excellent. Also in the savings budget is my trip to CT to get you to barrel said receivers.

Jarhead
LRB makes a very nice receiver. I have 7 in the herd. 4 M25s and 3 sa. Bula is the only producer that makes anything like the XM21 and being mainly a scope shooter these days it only made sense to use their products.



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Old January 15, 2017, 17:58   #30
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Bula and LRB are the favorite forged receivers on the M14 forum.
I'd suggest browsing through the forum for more answers.

I bought a SA Loaded in Oct. $1600. I am pleased.
After some tuning, it's a 1.5 MOA rifle.
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Old January 16, 2017, 20:44   #31
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What do you guys think on Rockola? Looks like two grand gets you one of those.
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Old January 17, 2017, 05:31   #32
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What do you guys think on Rockola? Looks like two grand gets you one of those.
You will be hard pressed to find a better M-14 clone these days. Receivers are made by Bula Defense Systems in Cleveland. As the USGI parts are running out more and more Bula parts are being used in the builds. Great rifles.



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Old January 17, 2017, 08:59   #33
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JRA Rock-ola

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Old January 21, 2017, 01:03   #34
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What do you guys think about James River M14s?
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Old January 21, 2017, 05:23   #35
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Top shelf.
Receivers are produced by Bula Defense Systems in Cleveland and are built right to the center of USGI specifications.
Mark Hartman owner of James River is a former Marine Corps officer and a true gentleman to deal with.

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Old January 21, 2017, 21:50   #36
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Anybody have experience with a SMITH LTD. M-14? I have serial number 0006 but really don't have much experience with M-14 types to judge.
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Old January 22, 2017, 11:36   #37
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This is a cut and paste job re internet information on Smith Ltd receivers

"H & R Gun Co. and Smith, Ltd.

Mr. Maunz sold his M14 rifle business to Smith Manufacturing in Toledo, OH about 1984. The semi-automatic M14 receiver master die was loaned to them as part of the sale. Smith Manufacturing produced complete rifles built on investment cast H&R Gun Co. stamped receivers. The H&R Gun Co. Semi-Auto 7.62MM-M14 receivers were marked TOLEDO, OHIO though Smith Manufacturing was physically located in Holland, OH about fourteen miles to the west. H&R Gun Co. Semi-Auto 7.62MM-M14 rifles were assembled with Harrington & Richardson M14 parts kits imported in 1985 by Jack Friese (see Armscorp of America, Inc. and Armscorp USA, Inc.). All H&R Gun Co. models were originally sold as complete rifles by Smith Manufacturing. The highest serial number observed for an H&R Gun Co. Semi-Auto 7.62MM-M14 is 1126. Smith Manufacturing was operated by Carl Hinkelman and two other associates. As an aside, Carl Hinkelman lived in Toledo, OH within blocks of the Schuster family at the time (see Commercial Accessories). Karl Maunz was a consultant to Smith Manufacturing on the H&R Gun Co. project.

Smith Manufacturing machined the first Armscorp of America receivers around 1985 or 1986. A number of these had rear lugs made as part of the casting. The very first Armscorp of America M14 type rifle receiver was hand delivered to Mike Gruber by Karl Maunz (see Armscorp of America, Inc. and Armscorp USA, Inc.). Smith Manufacturing made a few Armscorp of America receiver heel markings using electro-discharge machining (EDM) instead of using stamping dies as an experiment.

Smith Manufacturing also produced Smith, Ltd. investment cast semi-automatic M14 type receivers. Smith, Ltd. receivers were made about 1987. Like Maunz Mfg., a very few Smith, Ltd. rifles were experimental models. These rifles have a serial number preceded by EX-. Smith, Ltd. receivers were assembled as complete rifles and sold about 1987 and 1988 at Camp Perry shooting matches by Smith Manufacturing. The parts fit if using USGI and/or National Match parts is excellent, based on examination of Smith, Ltd. rifles serial numbered 0210, 0225, 0236 and 0237. A commercial manufacture bolt and commercial manufacture operating rod were found to be too thick to slide smoothly inside Smith, Ltd. serial number 0237.

Note

During the 1980s, there were four businesses or individuals with the name of Smith involved with commercial M14 rifles as manufacturers. Neal Smith of Smith Firearms (Mentor, OH) performed NFA registered select fire conversions of already-manufactured Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A rifles. Richard Smith and Ron Smith of Smith Enterprise, Inc. (then Mesa, AZ) produced semi-automatic and select fire M14 rifles stamped SMITH ENT. Melvin Smith of Valley Ordnance (Wilkes-Barre, PA) machined raw castings into M1A receivers for Springfield Armory, Inc. in Geneseo, IL. Smith Manufacturing (Holland, OH) produced Maunz Match Rifle, H&R Gun Co. and Smith, Ltd. semi-automatic M14 rifles and the first Armscorp of America M14 type receivers. None of these entities ever did any work for the others. Although Armscorp of America, Inc. sold Smith Enterprise, Inc. M-14 receivers and Smith Manufacturing made some Armscorp of America M14 receivers, there was never any connection or relationship between Smith Manufacturing (Holland, OH) and Smith Enterprise, Inc. (then Mesa, AZ). The similarity in names is purely coincidental."

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Old January 30, 2017, 12:21   #38
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I have to say that I am quite pleased with my Fulton Armory based gun.

It head spaced perfectly (1.633), with a nos H&R barrel, and an almost new Winchester bolt...no lapping required.

That is good receiver machining, and the "all GI" parts fit fine.

If investment casting is good enough for Ruger, it's fine with me.
I can highly recommend Fulton Armory products.

Gun is reliable, even with the 10 rd mags I have to use in NYS. I usually shoot it in a camo GI plastic stock.

Cost to build? Somewhere around $1,600 or so. I like carrying it, balances just right.
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Old February 10, 2017, 10:46   #39
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Rock-ola

Are these Rock-ola recievers of the single or dual lug type? Can you educate me on the differences between the two as well as pros and cons?
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Old February 10, 2017, 14:12   #40
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Originally Posted by michael_g927 View Post
Are these Rock-ola recievers of the single or dual lug type? Can you educate me on the differences between the two as well as pros and cons?
Of the bunch of JRA/Bula receivers I have used over the last few years, non are lugged. My accuracy builds go into JAE chassis so there is no reason to go the additional step for the lugs.
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Old February 10, 2017, 15:40   #41
hansellhd
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Originally Posted by ArtBanks View Post
You will be hard pressed to find a better M-14 clone these days. Receivers are made by Bula Defense Systems in Cleveland. As the USGI parts are running out more and more Bula parts are being used in the builds. Great rifles.



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Art
+1

I agree, BTW I have # 06 off the production line.





If you can't put a Bayonet on it it's not an M14 clone.
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Old February 10, 2017, 15:45   #42
ArtBanks
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+1

I agree, BTW I have # 06 off the production line.





If you can't put a Bayonet on it it's not an M14 clone.
Very nice. You have the standard rifle 06 and I have the DMR M21 006. They must be cousins.

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Old February 11, 2017, 01:45   #43
michael_g927
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Art, what is the difference between the two rifles? 06 and 006. What are the price differences?
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Old February 11, 2017, 07:21   #44
ArtBanks
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Art, what is the difference between the two rifles? 06 and 006. What are the price differences?
06 is a standard receiver M14F.
006 is an M21 DMR. Meaning that the receiver is machined in such a way as to accept the 1913 rail which fastens directly to the top. This way, you have the availability to use either the iron sights or the optics.
Recently I have gone to the XM21 receiver which is again a different animal. No rear sight pocket at all and the rail is machined into the receiver itself is so it is part of the rifle. I don't think you will find a more rugged way to attach an optic to and M14 type rifle. Prices run generally between about 600 and 800 bucks. Pretty good in my book for hammer forged.
Choices choices.

Bula Defense Systems XM21.



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Art

Last edited by ArtBanks; February 11, 2017 at 07:26.
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