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Old August 19, 2017, 08:09   #51
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Originally Posted by olddominion View Post
I have used only 3 DSA receivers and all surplus barrels timed between 10:00

and 11:00 o'clock. Guess I'm just lucky.
Great and I suppose that is a supportive recommendation for DS Arms.
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Old August 19, 2017, 10:40   #52
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And what breeching washer?

When I evaluated these 7 L1A1 receivers yesterday, I used an L1A1 barrel stub with a breeching washer that would hand time to 10:30 (golden triangle) on two different Enfield receivers and a Lithgow. I then used that stub & washer as the standard and checked each of the other receivers. All but one aligned the same (which is good). The final one hand timed to slightly past 12:00. Which is disturbing because there should be no difference at all, on receivers machined by computer controlled equipment. I won't know 'till I barrel it on Monday if it is outside the range of available breeching washers.

DakTo has a habit of posting irrelevant photos and pretending they support some assertion (like his assurance that "mags fit" with no mag catch installed!).
But the barrels would thread into all receivers without problems, right? I ask because my new inch dsa won't even begin to allow a barrel to thread into it, the hole is just a little too small. so, the threads will need to be recut.
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Old August 19, 2017, 11:32   #53
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But the barrels would thread into all receivers without problems, right? I ask because my new inch dsa won't even begin to allow a barrel to thread into it, the hole is just a little too small. so, the threads will need to be recut.
Well, all I can say is the 7 I started last week, and the two before, ranging in serial number from 014 to 90-something, all passed for barrel and gas tube support thread, and all but one passed for timing. The one that didn't timed 10-15 degrees greater than any other, which I suspect will be an issue, but I won't know for sure until next week.

Does your barrel screw easily onto any other receiver? Is it possible the leading edge of thread #1 got dinged?

Not saying your receiver threads don't need chasing, just that I haven't seen it yet.
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Old August 19, 2017, 12:21   #54
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Well, all I can say is the 7 I started last week, and the two before, ranging in serial number from 014 to 90-something, all passed for barrel and gas tube support thread, and all but one passed for timing. The one that didn't timed 10-15 degrees greater than any other, which I suspect will be an issue, but I won't know for sure until next week.

Does your barrel screw easily onto any other receiver? Is it possible the leading edge of thread #1 got dinged?

Not saying your receiver threads don't need chasing, just that I haven't seen it yet.
Yes. I also have an stg58, lmbel, and Israeli barrels, and imbel receivers for comparison and a all thread properly.
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Old August 19, 2017, 15:26   #55
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Great and I suppose that is a supportive recommendation for DS Arms.
And you're an angry little man who wont respond to an answer to a question that you asked nor PMs
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Old August 19, 2017, 18:50   #56
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For those in doubt of DSA's quality control issues on their receivers lately please watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9Z...ature=youtu.be
Careful, DSA will start suing members for downing their crappy products .
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Old August 19, 2017, 18:55   #57
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357Ross,

Is your Israeli barrel US made or did you rethread an original Israeli barrel? An unchased Israeli barrel wont thread into a normal metric receiver. Israelis had a different thread pitch than the rest of the Euro and South Americans metric guns.

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Old August 19, 2017, 19:20   #58
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Careful, DSA will start suing members for downing their crappy products .
Seems like it would be easier to put out good products to start with rather than suing people and making even more unhappy customers. But what do I know ?
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Old August 19, 2017, 19:27   #59
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357Ross,

Is your Israeli barrel US made or did you rethread an original Israeli barrel? An unchased Israeli barrel wont thread into a normal metric receiver. Israelis had a different thread pitch than the rest of the Euro and South Americans metric guns.

Thorack
No, it's an original surplus barrel from a kit back in the day, yes I'm familiar with the slight thread difference. It has been chased, still wouldn't thread into dsa inch receiver. It's aggravating to no end to have paid top dollar for something and still have to buy a tap and recut threads. On another note, the magazines snap in and out like they're supposed to. At least the inch mags I have do, anyway
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Old August 19, 2017, 20:45   #60
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Great and I suppose that is a supportive recommendation for DS Arms.
Would be nice if DSA made excellent receivers again, but with no parts kits with

barrels being imported the hobby is dead. Was a fun ride!

I'm not a gunsmith, so I have not worked on enough DSA receivers to give any

recommendation.
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Old August 19, 2017, 20:57   #61
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Or do you just rely on hearsay?

Needless to say you are a historic DSA hater around here and you arms must be too short to reach that itch.
"Hearsay"?? Are you really that obtuse??

I don't "Hate" DSA...and my arms are long enough to hug my wife, kids, and grab a mug of coffee on my way to work in the morning.
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Old August 20, 2017, 01:06   #62
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For my edification what did DSA owner Selvaggio lie to you about?
When his company, with his name on it, said that I could buy US made parts so that I would have the proper number of 922-compliant parts, and instead delivered Austrian surplus parts.

Turns out that the proof marks were partially ground off. I thought it was an accident - until I started looking at the FAL Files, and realized that lots of people had gotten these same parts.

So, Dak, what do you call a person who says that the parts are US made, and delivers surplus parts instead WHILE trying to hide the provenance of said parts?


Graham and I are hardly BFFs, but I do like his moderately thorough documentation of this ongoing fraud by D.S. of D.S. Arms. I also like the fact that D.S. threatened to beat his ass at the SAR show, and Graham told him to quit talking and get to it.
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Old August 20, 2017, 08:39   #63
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When his company, with his name on it, said that I could buy US made parts so that I would have the proper number of 922-compliant parts, and instead delivered Austrian surplus parts.

Turns out that the proof marks were partially ground off. I thought it was an accident - until I started looking at the FAL Files, and realized that lots of people had gotten these same parts.

So, Dak, what do you call a person who says that the parts are US made, and delivers surplus parts instead WHILE trying to hide the provenance of said parts?


Graham and I are hardly BFFs, but I do like his moderately thorough documentation of this ongoing fraud by D.S. of D.S. Arms. I also like the fact that D.S. threatened to beat his ass at the SAR show, and Graham told him to quit talking and get to it.
I also enjoy all of Mark Grahams' videos and problem solving. But you have to admit some defective or inaccurate parts are channeled by customers through his business and he gets stuck with the headache versus the buyers calling DSA about the issue or sending the part back for warranty work or replacement.

In respect to DS Arms tampering, if true, I would say DS Arms got caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar and possibly some surplus parts were mixed with domestic made parts? The company has been in business 32 years and possibly more and have sold many hard to find surplus parts and an overall credit to the FAL and firearms industry.
How many auto manufacturers and other companies (banks) have paid billions of fines for improprieties and yet we still purchase their products and services?
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Old August 20, 2017, 08:53   #64
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"Hearsay"?? Are you really that obtuse??

I don't "Hate" DSA...and my arms are long enough to hug my wife, kids, and grab a mug of coffee on my way to work in the morning.
Well, I was at least expecting some type of personal conflict between DSA and yourself. Otherwise hearsay will mandate the narrative.

I believe we need to be very careful in slandering the good name of the living or dead as unless we have positive proof of their conspiracy or corruption the poster and perhaps the website could end up in a legal entanglement.
Smart businesspersons don't kill the golden goose.
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Old August 20, 2017, 09:00   #65
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And you're an angry little man who wont respond to an answer to a question that you asked nor PMs


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Old August 20, 2017, 09:20   #66
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and possibly some surplus parts were mixed with domestic made parts?
accidentally mixed in, is not "proof marks ground off"

Just like this cocking handle. The hole is drilled in the wrong place. Oops.

Modifying the plunger means "we know this is a defective part and are selling it anyway".

An "overt act" is not a whoopsie.

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Old August 20, 2017, 10:18   #67
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I believe we need to be very careful in slandering the good name of the living or dead as unless we have positive proof of their conspiracy or corruption the poster and perhaps the website could end up in a legal entanglement.Smart businesspersons don't kill the golden goose.
I remember this quote from that a DSA rep sent in an e-mail to a member here, from the moses mag thread.
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If MMW has done anything to members that is unscrupulous, then we suggest the owner of the site step in and do something about it. Perhaps they should do something about all of the lies and slanderous statements that seem to abound across the FAL Files before lawsuits get filed.
Who knows if they are serious though.

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Old August 20, 2017, 13:28   #68
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"Hearsay"?? Are you really that obtuse??

I don't "Hate" DSA...and my arms are long enough to hug my wife, kids, and grab a mug of coffee on my way to work in the morning.
Careful you're using two syllable words he may not be able to understand.
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Old August 20, 2017, 13:36   #69
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I also enjoy all of Mark Grahams' videos and problem solving. But you have to admit some defective or inaccurate parts are channeled by customers through his business and he gets stuck with the headache versus the buyers calling DSA about the issue or sending the part back for warranty work or replacement.

In respect to DS Arms tampering, if true, I would say DS Arms got caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar and possibly some surplus parts were mixed with domestic made parts? The company has been in business 32 years and possibly more and have sold many hard to find surplus parts and an overall credit to the FAL and firearms industry.
How many auto manufacturers and other companies (banks) have paid billions of fines for improprieties and yet we still purchase their products and services?
They have, numerous people have sent back receivers only to be told no problem found and once it was sent to a competent gun smith and fixed or told it can't be fixed because it was so screwed up from the factory.
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Old August 20, 2017, 13:41   #70
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accidentally mixed in, is not "proof marks ground off"

Just like this cocking handle. The hole is drilled in the wrong place. Oops.

Modifying the plunger means "we know this is a defective part and are selling it anyway".

An "overt act" is not a whoopsie.

I suppose DSA doesn't believe 922r is credible anymore than most of us.
Unfortunately, you get to play Ray Donovan or Michael Clayton in cleaning up the problems.
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Old August 20, 2017, 13:51   #71
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They have, numerous people have sent back receivers only to be told no problem found and once it was sent to a competent gun smith and fixed or told it can't be fixed because it was so screwed up from the factory.
Please name 5 of the numerous members here who had returned receivers to DSA and were stuck with a $500 paperweight.
Excuse me for not believing you or the numerous people.
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Old August 20, 2017, 14:52   #72
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Please name 5 of the numerous members here who had returned receivers to DSA and were stuck with a $500 paperweight.
Excuse me for not believing you or the numerous people.
Post #60 your own thread and post#87 again your thread *sigh* again post #88
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...t=dsa+receiver
All of this in a few minutes of looking and my search abilities are not the greatest.

I could look further but i got sick of reading that thread plus i think that you would catch the drift.
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Old August 20, 2017, 23:06   #73
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DSA receivers originally had the barrel thread specs re engineered to to undertime because it allowed them to use take off Steyr S5G -58 barrels for their StG-58C Steyr surplus rebuilds without having to worry about overtiming, not because DSA "built a bunch of out of spec barrels" .

The DSA receivers also had the set back for the locking shoulder adjusted a few thousands to allow for the use of locking shoulders that were available at the time from the Steyr acquisition.

These were minor adjustments that were probably within the receiver manufacturing tolerances.

This was done in the mid 1990's and with the passage of time very few people were even aware of the change. When R1Shooter found out about this, he had the receiver specs changed back to original FN.
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Old August 21, 2017, 04:53   #74
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For what it's worth, I recently assembled (2) DSA cast type 2 that were purchased several years ago. Went together with no drama, .260 and .262 locking shoulders and full mags seat easily.
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Old August 21, 2017, 07:36   #75
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DSA receivers originally had the barrel thread specs re engineered to to undertime because it allowed them to use take off Steyr S5G -58 barrels for their StG-58C Steyr surplus rebuilds without having to worry about overtiming, not because DSA "built a bunch of out of spec barrels" .

The DSA receivers also had the set back for the locking shoulder adjusted a few thousands to allow for the use of locking shoulders that were available at the time from the Steyr acquisition.

These were minor adjustments that were probably within the receiver manufacturing tolerances.

This was done in the mid 1990's and with the passage of time very few people were even aware of the change. When R1Shooter found out about this, he had the receiver specs changed back to original FN.
Bullshit.

You got one part right - they made their receivers undertime so they could use all the defective barrels they had made. But they sold both out-of-spec barrels and receivers individually without revealing they were out-of-spec. Thus f_cking over their customers once again (It's The Chicago Way).

Everything else you wrote is a bunch of crap. Which seems to be a pattern.

R1Shooter didn't even know about barrel timing specs until I schooled him on it. He was insisting, as DSA's paid liar, that "FN has no timing spec". So I published that portion of the FN blueprints. He is a proven liar (fact), libeler (fact), and worthless piece of shit (value judgement on the others). His decrees should be evaluated within that context.
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Old August 21, 2017, 07:41   #76
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Post #60 your own thread and post#87 again your thread *sigh* again post #88
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...t=dsa+receiver
All of this in a few minutes of looking and my search abilities are not the greatest.

I could look further but i got sick of reading that thread plus i think that you would catch the drift.
Let's see now.....Post #60 is hearsay and ambivalent. Post #87 is also hearsay and not a personal experience. Post #88 had experienced 2 issues with ejector blocks which were addressed, repaired and returned to the customer. No paperweights here.
The greater problem with hearsay is it can spread like wildfire and may take on a life own. That is when the "numerous" impression occurre.
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Old August 21, 2017, 10:09   #77
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This exchange was one of the reasons that I decided to fix my DSA Brit receiver myself rather then send it back to DSA.

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Old August 21, 2017, 10:18   #78
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A much better answer from R1shooter would be to state their policy of FIFO-(First in/First out)
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Old August 21, 2017, 11:26   #79
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The impression I got from the exchange was closer to SNAFU.
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Old August 21, 2017, 11:55   #80
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Let's see now.....Post #60 is hearsay and ambivalent. Post #87 is also hearsay and not a personal experience. Post #88 had experienced 2 issues with ejector blocks which were addressed, repaired and returned to the customer. No paperweights here.
The greater problem with hearsay is it can spread like wildfire and may take on a life own. That is when the "numerous" impression occurre.
Ok i'm done listening to you trying to believe that there isn't an issue with DSA's receivers, you can call it what ever you want i'll take Gunplumbers word above you or R1's or Chrsdwns for that matter.
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Old August 21, 2017, 13:11   #81
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Ok i'm done listening to you trying to believe that there isn't an issue with DSA's receivers, you can call it what ever you want i'll take Gunplumbers word above you or R1's or Chrsdwns for that matter.
Thank you and please keep your commitment.
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Old August 21, 2017, 13:14   #82
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Thank you and please keep your commitment.
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Old August 22, 2017, 12:20   #83
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They made a bunch of barrels that over-timed. Dave would have lost a lot of money on it if he was honest and admitted the barrels were defective. Heck, he could have included a .006" shim with it and sold it for a slight discount, keeping the receivers correct. Instead, Dave's like "hey, let me have the receivers made to under-time, so I can save these barrels." For DSA builds, an under-timed receiver and an over-timed barrel "worked".

But then he decided "f-ck my stupid customers, I'll not just pair these in house, I'll also sell the defective barrels and the defective receivers individually, without revealing the defects of either." And so he did.

And then I get them in for builds (along with others) and post about their defects. And then R1shooter (DSA's paid whore) comes on with lie after lie trying to malign me for pointing out the specific defects. The worst of which was claiming "FN Has no timing spec". So I post the blueprints calling out the timing at the 7th cline, showing once again what a lying piece of shit he is.

And the beat goes on.

It's the Chicago Way.
So much damned truth in this. Thanks for pointing this out to others who may not have known.
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Old August 23, 2017, 00:13   #84
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I bought a recent DSA FAL and 5 Israeli mags. They did not work reliably. But I have about 500 or so rounds through after using exclusively DSA mags without any stoppage at all on the right gas setting. My buddy has an Imbel build and I sold him the israeli mags and they work flawlessly for him. I think the DSA is rock solid with their mags. Take it for what its worth but now im happy with mine. My only regret is the 16 inch para vs. 18 inch as that is definitely the sweet spot.
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Old August 25, 2017, 14:27   #85
jugrunner
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WTF is this .. ? .. when I left here over a yr ago peeps were saying the new DSA cast receivers were the chit .. !!!!!!!!!!

much, much better that the "Forged" receivers of the old days .. the old DS prefix were teh suck ..

the shocker of it all is that long time members, who are generally thought sane, are still defending DSA ..

much like those who are still defending moses ..
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Old August 25, 2017, 15:26   #86
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Originally Posted by Mattpsky View Post
I bought a recent DSA FAL and 5 Israeli mags. They did not work reliably. But I have about 500 or so rounds through after using exclusively DSA mags without any stoppage at all on the right gas setting. My buddy has an Imbel build and I sold him the israeli mags and they work flawlessly for him. I think the DSA is rock solid with their mags.
So you think it is "rock solid" that GI FAL mags won't function in a rifle DSA markets as a FAL?

I mean, sure, I wouldn't blame DSA if M14 or G3 mags didn't work in their FAL, but I'd expect FAL mags to work in their FAL.
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Old August 25, 2017, 17:03   #87
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Pretty sad. I had an old (90s?) STG-58A that was lost in a canoeing accident but that was an extremely accurate and reliable rifle after it was broken in. I get that it's a parts gun from a time of proper machining.

Almost makes me wonder if Dave Sal..whatever is more interested in trying to sell the company or making AR parts.

GP, don't take this the wrong way but I watched your video and for some reason you look younger than you did in my VHS copy of how to build a FAL video. Whatever you're doing, keep it up.
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Old August 25, 2017, 17:56   #88
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Originally Posted by HelluvaEngineer View Post
Pretty sad. I had an old (90s?) STG-58A that was lost in a canoeing accident but that was an extremely accurate and reliable rifle after it was broken in. I get that it's a parts gun from a time of proper machining.

Almost makes me wonder if Dave Sal..whatever is more interested in trying to sell the company or making AR parts.

GP, don't take this the wrong way but I watched your video and for some reason you look younger than you did in my VHS copy of how to build a FAL video. Whatever you're doing, keep it up.
it's the lighting!
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