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Old July 19, 2018, 09:39   #1
Bawana jim
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Colt copy SAA

High dollar copy to meet the demand for a good SAA.

http://www.stdgun.com/sa-revolver/
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Old July 19, 2018, 10:22   #2
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Its a bit spendy, but a fine looking piece.
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Old July 19, 2018, 10:41   #3
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There is a lot of speculation on who is involved with this, ya it sure looks good.
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Old July 19, 2018, 11:47   #4
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And why would you not buy an original cheaper...?
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I notice no one ever debates whether a .30 is an adequate stopper...
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Old July 19, 2018, 12:44   #5
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$1900 ???

that's just stupid
That money buys the real thing
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Old July 19, 2018, 13:16   #6
Bawana jim
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And why would you not buy an original cheaper...?
Colt has been very slow on production of new guns, can't find them.
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Old July 19, 2018, 16:01   #7
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It looks nice in the photo's but is it worth over $2000 after shipping, FFL fees, and sales tax? Not to me. I have a late model 3rd gen Colt SAA that I bought NIB a few years ago. Cost was $1100 back then.

One other thing to consider. It isn't a Colt Single Action Army. Just another high priced copy.....

And so it goes.


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Old July 20, 2018, 02:02   #8
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Colt has been very slow on production of new guns, can't find them.
Check gunbroker lately?
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I notice no one ever debates whether a .30 is an adequate stopper...
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Old July 20, 2018, 10:06   #9
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Check gunbroker lately?
Yes I do, GB folks buy retail and pump the prices beyond reason. However I did manage to find a nib Colt NF in 44 special a while back for retail from an FFL.
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Old December 07, 2018, 06:04   #10
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It looks nice in the photo's but is it worth over $2000 after shipping, FFL fees, and sales tax? Not to me. I have a late model 3rd gen Colt SAA that I bought NIB a few years ago. Cost was $1100 back then.
A SKS was $99 back then
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Old December 07, 2018, 07:56   #11
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I'll just have to be happy with my Uberti 3" Birdshead 1873 in 45ACP.
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Old December 07, 2018, 11:22   #12
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I'll just have to be happy with my Uberti 3" Birdshead 1873 in 45ACP.
I don't suppose you can shoot Auto Rim in that Pogue?
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Old December 07, 2018, 12:58   #13
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It would be nice to be able to shoot the .45 Auto rim round in SA revolvers chambered for the .45 ACP. But that extra thick rim won't allow proper head spacing.

Recently I read about a new .45 revolver round called the .45 Special. It is a .45 ACP length case with a standard sized rim identical to the .45 Colt. Developed for the cowboy shooting game as I understand it. The cases are made by StarLine. Possibly this could be used in a .45 ACP single action revolver.

And so it goes.


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Old December 07, 2018, 13:12   #14
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I wonder if the 45 super is safe to shoot in a 45ACP revolver?
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Old December 07, 2018, 18:31   #15
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At the present time I own three S&W's chambered for the .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim cartridges.

One is a US Army Model 1917 made that year. Absolutely no way would I shoot .45 Super in it. It would wreck the old timer and even possibly cause the piece to be blown to pieces. No heat treatment back then.....

Another is a Model 25-2 .45 Model of 1955 target. A stronger gun than the 1917 but shooting .45 Super in it would eventually cause wear and tear. No way on this either.....

The third is a Model 625-2 Model of 1988. S&W made only 1000 of the 1988 marked pieces for their "Gun of the Month" sales 30 years ago. Supposedly the 1988 and 1989 625's are strong enough to handle .45 Super. I am not interested in finding out. If I want magnum performance then I have two S&W .41 Magnum's. A Model 57 and a Model 58. Two S&W .44 Magnum's. A Model 29-2 6.5 inch and a Model 629-3 four inch Mountain Revolver.

Ruger Blackhawks in .45 ACP would handle the Super without any problems. The Italian clones of the SAA won't. But of course some adventurous shooter would probably try anyway.....

And so it goes.


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Old December 07, 2018, 18:42   #16
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How about a Ruger Blackhawk, would you shoot a super in it?
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Old December 07, 2018, 20:24   #17
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I think it's a nice piece but not for that price. I like my Uberti's fine and also, I bought 2 matched Ruger old model Vaqueros in .45 Colt high finished stainless with 7.5 inch barrels., both for $750.00.

All my SAA clones are great six guns. I had an original Beretta Stampede (An Uberti made piece) that had the tightest lock up U ever saw on a revolver., zero cylinder play whether hammer was full cock or resting position...it was amazingly well fitted.

I can also live without buying a Colt original SAA.
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Old December 08, 2018, 09:01   #18
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I ordered a United States Firearms SAA 15 years ago when they still existed. 7 1/2" barrel, 45 Colt. It was too damn pretty so I never shot it. I bought a Cimarron Arms SAA in the same configuration just to have something similar to shoot. I guess the USFA was a good investment since it's still NIB.
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Old December 08, 2018, 16:40   #19
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There were rumors that both Colt and USFA used Italian forgings for the frames and cylinders. But chemical analysis of the steel dispelled those rumors.

The USFA SAA clone was beautifully made and finished. Some of the gun writers of the day claimed that the color case hardening and bluing were superior to the Colt. The one example I looked at certainly was at least the equal of the 2nd gen Colt SAA I owned at the time if not slightly better. But the USFA SSA was pricey even compared to the Colt. Too bad they priced themselves out of the market. When you could buy three Ruger Vaguero's for the price of one USFA then it is no wonder that the company folded....

And so it goes.


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Old December 08, 2018, 17:00   #20
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I ordered a United States Firearms SAA 15 years ago when they still existed. 7 1/2" barrel, 45 Colt. It was too damn pretty so I never shot it. I bought a Cimarron Arms SAA in the same configuration just to have something similar to shoot. I guess the USFA was a good investment since it's still NIB.
I still can't believe they ruined the company by stopping those really nice SAA clones they made for those dumbass "zip" guns. Simply awful.

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Old December 08, 2018, 17:06   #21
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I used to drive through Hartford frequently when I worked in the tech industry and one time I stopped to visit USFA and got tour from the owner. The place was really one large room with a bunch of work benches at which a bunch of woman were sitting putting revolvers together. The owner told me himself that parts came from Italy and were assembled here and that he had plans for stateside machining in the future. He showed me how the roll marks were put on which I had never seen done. Simple machine kind of like a large heavy duty credit card imprinter thing from years ago. I do not recall seeing anything more sophisticated than a drill press in there but there may have been more to the operation that I was not shown. I was taken into his office where he presented plans plans for future models like a modern 1878 DA and both a 1902 and 1905 semi autos. He also showed me a shoe box filled with original small Colt parts that he had collected by going through the building after hours and mining between the floor boards with a hacksaw blade. For those of you that don't know, they occupied a portion of the original Colt factory with his space being directly under and to the left of the dome.
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Old December 08, 2018, 18:33   #22
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When Colt quit making the SAA for regular production I believe the guns were priced around $400. Today retail is supposed to be around $1700 but the shortage drove the market prices higher. Odds are all Colt SAA production will stop before long.
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Old December 09, 2018, 02:54   #23
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I wonder if it's the leftovers from US Firearms
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Old December 09, 2018, 09:02   #24
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I don't suppose you can shoot Auto Rim in that Pogue?
I wouldn't think so. The cartridge drops in and is limited by the brass case from going further into the cylinder. Think the rim would make it stick up to high to be able to rotate the cylinder.

I like it though. Being able to shoot that that bulk ammo makes it an economical compared to the 45 Long Colt.
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Old December 09, 2018, 10:57   #25
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I wouldn't think so. The cartridge drops in and is limited by the brass case from going further into the cylinder. Think the rim would make it stick up to high to be able to rotate the cylinder.

I like it though. Being able to shoot that that bulk ammo makes it an economical compared to the 45 Long Colt.
Not a machinist or any of the sort, but it would be interesting to me if it was a possibility. I'm not interested enough to spend much money on such a project however as being a reloader allows me to shoot 45 Colt and ACP for about the same effort and cost.

You got a neat shooter there all the same.
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Old December 09, 2018, 11:46   #26
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Another alternative may be the 455 webley in the 45 acp cylinder. The rim is more like a 45 Colt and it's still in production.
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Old December 09, 2018, 16:57   #27
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I have a S&W Triplelock chambered for the .455 Webley round. The .455 Webley rim is somewhat thinner than the rim on the .45 Colt. The Webley round will chamber in my Colt SAA without any problem. But that thin rim places the primer a few thousandth's of an inch further away from the firing pin. Using just primed cases the Colt was spotty with primer ignition. So I tried the cases in my S&W Model 25-5 .45 Colt. Ditto results. I suppose that if the primers were seated a bit high that it would work. I see no purpose to using the Webley round in a revolver chambered for the .45 Colt or .45 ACP. But it could be done if one wanted to.....

And so it goes.


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Old December 09, 2018, 17:19   #28
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Nice looking gun! The serial number in three locations a la early 1st gen Colt's is a nice touch. Don't know if it is worth the high price unless Colt goes belly up for good. Douglas Donnelly's US Firearms made SAA's every bit as good or better than Colt did ... but he seemed intent on destroying his own creation which he did. US Firearms developed it's own cachet ... maybe Standard Manufacturing can do the same.
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Old December 27, 2018, 15:07   #29
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Maybe these people could make Browning High-Walls of forged materials in modern calibers. They said they make shotguns. Could a High-Wall be more complicated?

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Old December 28, 2018, 16:17   #30
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Maybe these people could make Browning High-Walls of forged materials in modern calibers. They said they make shotguns. Could a High-Wall be more complicated?

Jarhead
Vintage Winchester 1885 actions can already handle most modern chamberings

why try to reinvent the wheel ?
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Old December 28, 2018, 17:47   #31
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Real world price for Colt 3rd Gen SAAs is WELL under Auction Speculator pricing and the adjustable sighted New Frontiers generally run less
Slightly used examples regularly crop up in the $1200 range at shows, NFs even less.

Recently I was offered three 3rd Gen Colts in trade for my 1877 built SAA that's a mismatched gun that carries a 3K tag
One .44 Special as new in box, a .45 7.5 in exc shape but no box and a .45 Buntline Special with a dog eared box
Real fair trade, guy was even going to throw in a beautiful Buffalo blanket to sweeten the deal a bit.
I passed

I would have made out fine eventually and had another Buff to add to my stack of them but actually prefer the 1st gen guns

Sometimes you can get into 1950s/60s Christy's rebuilds cheaply
last we had was a 1903 dated Bisley in .38 Special, 5.5" with S&W adj sights
shot like a dream, just an all around fun shooter
had the floated firing pin conversion, was bored for .357 magnum
cherry shape, that went to a older fella who paid 1750.00 and has bagged three white tail with it now
I was into that at 1100 bones
gun went through our hands three times
I originally bought it in 98 ? at like $800
last guy I bought it back from I paid him the $1100 he had paid us early 2000s then sold it a few months later. That was like 2014 maybe ?

Frankly I am appalled at internet valuations on such things

On the strength of Italian clones
dunno'
They made SAA knockoffs in .30 M1 Carbine and even .44 Magnum on a basic SAA frame, we have had examples of both
.44 magnum though is seriously pushing them in my opinion.

An overlooked one are some of the Interarms variations
They used to import a fixed sight "Cattlemens" model in .357 and .44 magnum
seem to recall they were German or Swiss built by Hawes
those often go silly cheap and they are somewhat finely built sidearms
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Old December 29, 2018, 16:50   #32
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i had some USFAs and sold them while the prices are high. Never shot them so i passed on the NIB to someone that wanted a collector.

They were really nice.

My LGS has a LN Colt on the shelf with the 4.5 in bbl. Really nice, but i already have 2.

I had a 44-40 that i bought just because i had the $$$ and sold that a while back.

im not sure why people wait, but thats their choice.

i don't know what planet you live on, but what ive seen time and time again is that they maybe "expensive" now to buy but they sure are not going down in price years from now.

Last edited by toys; December 29, 2018 at 16:55.
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Old December 29, 2018, 16:53   #33
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Real world price for Colt 3rd Gen SAAs is WELL under Auction Speculator pricing and the adjustable sighted New Frontiers generally run less
Slightly used examples regularly crop up in the $1200 range at shows, NFs even less.

Recently I was offered three 3rd Gen Colts in trade for my 1877 built SAA that's a mismatched gun that carries a 3K tag
One .44 Special as new in box, a .45 7.5 in exc shape but no box and a .45 Buntline Special with a dog eared box
Real fair trade, guy was even going to throw in a beautiful Buffalo blanket to sweeten the deal a bit.
I passed

I would have made out fine eventually and had another Buff to add to my stack of them but actually prefer the 1st gen guns

Sometimes you can get into 1950s/60s Christy's rebuilds cheaply
last we had was a 1903 dated Bisley in .38 Special, 5.5" with S&W adj sights
shot like a dream, just an all around fun shooter
had the floated firing pin conversion, was bored for .357 magnum
cherry shape, that went to a older fella who paid 1750.00 and has bagged three white tail with it now
I was into that at 1100 bones
gun went through our hands three times
I originally bought it in 98 ? at like $800
last guy I bought it back from I paid him the $1100 he had paid us early 2000s then sold it a few months later. That was like 2014 maybe ?

Frankly I am appalled at internet valuations on such things

On the strength of Italian clones
dunno'
They made SAA knockoffs in .30 M1 Carbine and even .44 Magnum on a basic SAA frame, we have had examples of both
.44 magnum though is seriously pushing them in my opinion.

An overlooked one are some of the Interarms variations
They used to import a fixed sight "Cattlemens" model in .357 and .44 magnum
seem to recall they were German or Swiss built by Hawes
those often go silly cheap and they are somewhat finely built sidearms
what the internet did is to open up the audience to many many many more other people. Where as if you lived in some po dunk small 1 cow town and had an "auction" who would show up?

So, with the many many many more people that can see whats out there and probably some of those many more people have more $$$ to spend, its drives up the price.

As a buyer you may not like it, but as a seller, you would.
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Old December 30, 2018, 22:37   #34
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what the internet did is to open up the audience to many many many more other people. Where as if you lived in some po dunk small 1 cow town and had an "auction" who would show up?

So, with the many many many more people that can see whats out there and probably some of those many more people have more $$$ to spend, its drives up the price.

As a buyer you may not like it, but as a seller, you would.
Again, I am referring to speculative pricing. Not what certain items actually sell at even on Gun Broker.

I watch certain things very closely
A wonderful example is what has happened to pricing of antique Webley Greene revolvers. In basic terms there are several primary vendors of those on GB and they have a reserve often over 3K on clean examples

Same characters have seriously beaten up valuation of S&W New Model #3 single actions.

Here's the score, I AM A SELLER of such things
The flip side is when I was heavy into auctions it was those same characters buying from me then immediately relisting at just a grossly inflated markup.

Some of what has been going on is people playing Tax Games. How that works is some idiot with deep pockets "invests" in things offering them at ridiculous markups knowing they won't sell then through creative bookkeeping claims a degree of write off due to "depreciated" inventory
that's not the only gimmick in that game.

Now while you can't lawfully do this with "Firearms" unless you have a license you can with pre 1899 items as you don't need a FFL to buy & sell as a business.

These sort of games have led to falsely inflated valuations on many things and the internet is ground center of it all currently closely followed by cable TV shows like The Pickers, Pawnstars, any number of reality Car shows

Understand well before the Internet folks just posted classified ads in the Gun List or snagged a table at a Gun Show. It wasn't like the Internet really changed anything but venue & level of exposure to folks that really never were gun folk

Same crap happened with NFA registered MGs to a greater or lesser extent.
Difference there was it was largely unlicensed "investors" buying crap cheap and stacking deep
Then there came to be a new cadre of SOTs who were largely facilitators.
if you want a small taste of the truth dig up Frank Gopharts interview with Bloomberg News. Frank is the new owner of Subguns.com. It's a very candid piece on that game and how NFA went asinine

Oh here it is:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...uns-in-america

yeah über rich elites buying hundreds of thousands worth of MGs a year

Some of these same type of guys are doing the same in the high end collectible arms market where as antiques they again don't need to run a FFL and can get into the Tax Game.
With the NFA game it gets interesting if they are ran under corporate for potential Tax advantage.
Of course when we are talking those shilling out hundreds of thousands a year, well this isn't John Q Public, not exactly the type of folks Treasury or DOJ rakes over the coals that often.

Just trying to get this clear that Auction listings are no barometer of value
I would argue not even completed Auctions are not a valid indicator until you achieve an established pattern.
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