The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Discussion Forums > General Non-Firearms Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 11, 2017, 22:38   #1
SWOHFAL
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 34346
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The not quite as disgusting RINO state
Posts: 18,571
Thumbs down The Boy/Girl Scouts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f99f7cc7dee2


Another reason, besides letting homos become scoutmasters, that the organization is dead.
__________________
Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.

- Fyodor Dostoevsky
SWOHFAL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 22:48   #2
4x401
Giver of Noogies...
Silver Contributor
 
4x401's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31978
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ORYGUN
Posts: 8,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOHFAL View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f99f7cc7dee2


Another reason, besides letting homos become scoutmasters, that the organization is dead.
I disagree.

The Boy Scouts continue to hold conservative values I agree with...values their counterparts DON'T.

So I'm happy to see the inclusion.
__________________
_______________________________________________
"Boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch, and lets go to work".
4x401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 22:50   #3
SWOHFAL
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 34346
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The not quite as disgusting RINO state
Posts: 18,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x401 View Post
I disagree.

The Boy Scouts continue to hold conservative values I agree with...values their counterparts DON'T.

So I'm happy to see the inclusion.
Yeah, those conservative gay scoutmasters really teach the boys some values I'd want them to learn.
__________________
Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.

- Fyodor Dostoevsky
SWOHFAL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 22:59   #4
easttex
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 20438
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,800
I saw this today and everybody has been like "Yay! Inclusion!" And I'm like "You're missing the point..." But whatever, I am outvoted on the matter.

Chock another up to the sanctity of social justice and the death of the American male.
__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind.

Molon labe
easttex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 23:01   #5
Bawana jim
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17482
Join Date: May 2005
Location: west coast
Posts: 15,359
The Marxist left is trying to rid American men of their toxic masculinity by removing gender. Everyone is the same like good little commies should be.
__________________
Studies show smart people use more bad language than stupid mother fuggers.
Bawana jim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 23:19   #6
croftonaviation
Motivated underachiever
Contributor
 
croftonaviation's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 64580
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kingman AZ
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
The Marxist left is trying to rid American men of their toxic masculinity by removing gender. Everyone is the same like good little commies should be.
Yup, apparently some people have seen this coming for years. A country full of metrosexuals shouldn't be to hard to conquer.

“Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!”
– Lt. Gen. Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller, USMC
__________________
Boeing builds airplanes........Douglas builds character.
croftonaviation is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 23:39   #7
Bawana jim
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17482
Join Date: May 2005
Location: west coast
Posts: 15,359
It's why the Marxist professors started gender studies and had Husien give us three bathrooms, they have to break down the masculinity of the American male.
__________________
Studies show smart people use more bad language than stupid mother fuggers.
Bawana jim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 11, 2017, 23:44   #8
4x401
Giver of Noogies...
Silver Contributor
 
4x401's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31978
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ORYGUN
Posts: 8,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOHFAL View Post
Yeah, those conservative gay scoutmasters really teach the boys some values I'd want them to learn.
Until I hear that "Gay scoutmasters", are adversely affecting the organization, I will reserve comment....Every player gets their chance at bat, if they aren't scoring, they're riding the pine..
__________________
_______________________________________________
"Boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch, and lets go to work".
4x401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 07:13   #9
hkshooter
Mighty Fine!
Silver Contributor
 
hkshooter's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 5391
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 7,114
If there's a girl scout organization, why would a girl want to join the boy scouts?

One more step towards a gray society where everyone is the same, a step away from being independent individuals.
__________________
How's your dog, Paden?
hkshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 07:33   #10
VALMET
Veteran Member
Bronze Contributor
 
VALMET's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1826
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,746
These types of things arenít generally on my radar but this is A-grade ridiculous. A handful of women Iíve discussed this with are in agreement that it is ridiculous. Arguing for diversity while destroying diversity.
__________________
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is a symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell, 1940.
VALMET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 07:54   #11
Bug Tussell
.....
Silver Contributor
 
Bug Tussell's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 2872
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bug Tussell Farm in New Mexico
Posts: 5,286
Fresh air. Young men. Young women.

What could go wrong?
__________________
Make your time
Bug Tussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 08:35   #12
suppressor
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64166
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ky.
Posts: 306
Hey, you hit on it.

Because of the scoutmaster move, they had to bring in females.

Had to offset what might have started to look awkward.
suppressor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 09:01   #13
richbug
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 10484
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Western PA
Posts: 4,590
If it bothers you, check out "Trail Life USA".
richbug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 09:17   #14
MAINER
Old Salt
Bronze Contributor
 
MAINER's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 18465
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 9,192
I might have joined the Boy Scouts if they had girls.
__________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
MAINER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 09:19   #15
Bawana jim
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17482
Join Date: May 2005
Location: west coast
Posts: 15,359
It does leave an opening for a new merit badge in sex education..
__________________
Studies show smart people use more bad language than stupid mother fuggers.
Bawana jim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 09:53   #16
starbuck
Registered
 
starbuck's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 26466
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OHIO
Posts: 1,011
I thought all scout masters were gay? This is going to make scout camping so much more interesting.
__________________
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught.
starbuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 10:32   #17
kfranz
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 101
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkshooter View Post
If there's a girl scout organization, why would a girl want to join the boy scouts?

One more step towards a gray society where everyone is the same, a step away from being independent individuals.
Because the administrative rules governing the girl scouts SUCK. They are much more restrictive than the boy scouts. Yeah yeah, change your own organization, but why bother when you can SEE and participate with an organization that already is doing what you want to do. This will likely increase boy retention...
kfranz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 10:44   #18
kfranz
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 101
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,015
The other aspect is that the boy scouts already had an inclusive organization in the Venture crews.
kfranz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 11:39   #19
aquaman
Registered
 
aquaman's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 20926
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 240
We have an 8yo boy who loves scouting. We had an uncomfortable conversation about this change at the dinner table last night.

We have a daughter too (not yet scouting age) and feel this decision totally marginalized the Girl Scout program. We don't have any experience with Girl Scouts however.

Being in the greater Seattle area we have chosen to travel 30min out of our neighborhood to participate with a more rural pack. It's largely a great group of people who are trying to expose our boys to traditional values and life skills in a group setting. Something totally absent in public school settings.

We understand the the scouting experience is a direct product of the efforts put forth by the families and sponsors of the scouts in our troops. But the leadership is making poor decisions regarding declining membership and lack of $$$.

Most of us are upset about these changes but will probably stay with BSA because there isn't an alternative. Some of our group even seem to be in favor of this decision as they feel the Girl Scout program is inferior to BSA.

In the end I think this decision will hasten the end of BSA which has been on a declining arc for some decades now.
aquaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 12:18   #20
lew
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
lew's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 16727
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 7,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkshooter View Post
If there's a girl scout organization, why would a girl want to join the boy scouts?

One more step towards a gray society where everyone is the same, a step away from being independent individuals.
Please correct me if I am in error, but that bit in bold comes across as if you are saying that the individual is to be subservient. Group-think and -affiliation, and the authority they allow are absolutely toxic when they bury the individual. We are all a minority of one.

So long as the program is organizes to help build strong individuals- boy or girl- I take no issue with the inclusion.
__________________
Statism: Ideas so great, they're mandatory.
lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 12:49   #21
ExCdnSoldierInTx
Old Fart
Gold Contributor
 
ExCdnSoldierInTx's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 65552
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Central Merca
Posts: 6,603
I've asked several people here, and to a person, all are dead set against this move. Women HATE the idea, fearing their girls will be open to unwanted advances, etc.

BSA used to be a Bible based boys organization with a set in stone set of guidelines for shaping and molding boys into responsible young men.
Now it seems it's becoming a modern age social club.
Two Nephews of mine are Eagle Scouts, and they are sickened by the change of direction of BSA over the last 6-8 years. Guns and shooting skills are now being frowned upon by some Scout Troops, being replaced by who knows what.
__________________
" .... basically you'd have to take them head-on, penetrating 4-6 'yotas per round, to avoid wasting ammo." - Enquiring Minds 11/15/15
ExCdnSoldierInTx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:00   #22
C2A1
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 15514
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,219
I'm a scoutmaster and my son gets his eagle in two weeks. My take is this:
The new policies on being alone with the boys works well. Three people at all times. In our troop, you get one screw up then your out. The dues went up this year because of lawsuits (maybe one reason they let the girls in). Most of these lawsuits came from states which removed the SOL on such cases and the suits came from the 70s and 80s.
Now I differ to my son on the girl issue. Question on his eagle review. He said that girls should not be allowed in all functions. Boys behave differently when girls are around. So there should be boy only camping etc. where guys can be guys. However, girls should be allowed in for merit badges and he thinks they need to be allowed to work toward senior ranks as the girl scouts don't have ranks which are socially respected like boy scouts. He thinks they need to hold basic standards for swimming and hiking.
My take is old fashioned. It is called Boy Scouts. If you have girls in the troop then it needs to be called something else ( Steer scouts or Metro scouts). This war on men is horrible.
C2A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:23   #23
Atla
Registered
Contributor
 
Atla's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 79587
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 103
They will probably combine eventually.

But just wait until the first Boy Scout Leader gets caught molesting a girl scout.

Or, in today's modern world, the first Girl Scout Leader caught molesting a boy scout. Because apparently that is all the rage now in schools.

If you ever read one of the OLD Boy Scout Handbooks, it's amazing how far Boy Scouts have fallen in 'progressive' times. It's a true shame, for homes who are lacking a father figure (Which is pretty common now), or homes where the father is busy, it WAS a great place to learn manhood.

Liberals ruin everything they touch.
__________________
WORKINGCLASSREADER.com
Political and Social Commentary in a World Gone Mad.
New Post - 10/16 - On Friday - I killed a coworker
Atla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:39   #24
0302
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 348
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 8,443
todays whiteboys are so femme lettin in girls really doesn't make much difference.
0302 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:41   #25
cotter
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 23754
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 779
No real dog in this fight except a 12yo daughter... I am thinking that this is a direct result of the feminazi politics of the girl scouts. Many parents directly steer their girls away for this reason. That and todays girls realize that they can and want to do things besides being in a 'social club.' The bsa does things, challenges their boys to become men and hopefully these girls to become ladies (the world is way short on those these days). As they say the devil is in the details and the proof is in the pudding. If implemented right it can be a great thing for future generations, wrong and it will be the death of the organization. Gsa is dead already. But what do I know, I got kicked out of the cub scouts for eating brownies
cotter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:51   #26
kfranz
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 101
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2A1 View Post
I'm a scoutmaster and my son gets his eagle in two weeks. My take is this:
The new policies on being alone with the boys works well. Three people at all times. In our troop, you get one screw up then your out. The dues went up this year because of lawsuits (maybe one reason they let the girls in). Most of these lawsuits came from states which removed the SOL on such cases and the suits came from the 70s and 80s.
Now I differ to my son on the girl issue. Question on his eagle review. He said that girls should not be allowed in all functions. Boys behave differently when girls are around. So there should be boy only camping etc. where guys can be guys. However, girls should be allowed in for merit badges and he thinks they need to be allowed to work toward senior ranks as the girl scouts don't have ranks which are socially respected like boy scouts. He thinks they need to hold basic standards for swimming and hiking.
My take is old fashioned. It is called Boy Scouts. If you have girls in the troop then it needs to be called something else ( Steer scouts or Metro scouts). This war on men is horrible.
There are Venture crews that include boys are girls, and have been for 20+ years. They don't need something new, what they need are members and dollars, not lawsuits.

I had a discussion with a girl scout troop leader a few years ago on an outing that was open to more than just boy scouts. She was VERY frustrated with the administrative limitations to what the Girl Scout organization can do. They can't own equipment for starters, and as anyone who has any recent experience with scouting knows, every troop has a beautiful trailer full of coolio equipment. Her troop teamed up with the boy scout troop whenever they could, as the boys had much greater flexibility that way.
My own boys are out of scouting now, die hard three sport athletes who much preferred the competition and camaraderie of their teams to that offered by scouting. There is nothing magic in scouting, merely an opportunity to be social and participate in fun activities with relatively like minded individuals. I enjoyed that aspect of it as well, but have a new found, and much more factually based, lesser regard for what the scouting organization is and what the ranks really mean.

Last edited by kfranz; October 12, 2017 at 14:16.
kfranz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 13:57   #27
Timber Wolf
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 805
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern U.S.
Posts: 4,488
Former Scout here that got close but did not make Eagle and am sorry about it now. Anyway, I have not read the article but as the single parent of a 14 yo daughter I am for anything that helps them grow and develop into a responsible, productive adult. I tried to get her in a Girl Scout Troop years ago and hit a solid brick wall. I called the local main GS office and asked about local troops, was told they did not give that information out. Huummmm, OK how does she join a troop? "We will take your information, and if a troop has an opening they will call you". I never heard a peep from them, I guess the GS are a secret dadgum cookie-selling society. I take her camping on my own, take her monthly to the local gun club's NRA sponsored Youth Shoots, and we are involved in the Appleseed program. She is also on both the Volleyball and Softball teams at her school while maintaining a solid 3.5 GPA. That pretty much fills her schedule and she has no time for selling cookies or whatever else the GS might do. Still likes me some cookies though.
__________________
First rule of gun fighting: "have a gun!"

"Guns don't kill people. Daddys with good looking daughters do!"
Timber Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 14:22   #28
Impala_Guy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 55819
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gamecock Country
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by easttex View Post
I saw this today and everybody has been like "Yay! Inclusion!" And I'm like "You're missing the point..." But whatever, I am outvoted on the matter.

Chock another up to the sanctity of social justice and the death of the American male.
That's what its really about. When they say "toxic masculinity" what they really mean is self reliance and resistance to collectivism. They've been trying to get rid of "ground acquisition games" like football for years for the same reason. Looks like they may have succeeded. If the NFL doesn't go belly up, the Raiders, 49ers, and Chargers will.
__________________
Don't spread our wealth around, spread our work ethic.........
Impala_Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 14:32   #29
judgedredd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 79768
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5
There's trouble in the Land. boys need to learn how to become men and little girls need to know how to behave and become lady instead of go naked on social media, i do not understand this world anymore.
judgedredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 16:06   #30
chet
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 1082
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,449
I have watched this play out from the inside for years.

This latest fiasco really has nothing whatsoever to do with inclusiveness or some high-minded belief that boys and girls should do Scouting together. Go look at their press release. The word "inclusiveness" is not even used in this press release. And, as late as January of this year, BSA was still saying "(w)hile we offer a number of programs that serve all youth, Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting are specifically designed to meet the needs of boys."

Geez. What changed since January?

On May 11, the LDS church announced they will be pulling all of their 13-17 year old boys out of the program in 2018. This is subsequent to the entire Missouri synod pulling their boys out prior to last year. For those that dont know, LDS churches generally pay the annual registration for every boy each year, whether they participate or not. In various locations, the LDS church units comprise almost all the troops and packs in a given council.

One, this will turn Utah in a veritable Scouting wasteland. It is likely that the entire Great Salt Lake council will eventually fold and any remnants be absorbed or reorganized with councils that serve other states.

Two, and most important to headquarters, this will create something on the order of a 4.4 million dollar shortfall next year. Considering that donors have not been "coming out" to support BSA as it successively allowed gay youth, gay adults, and now transgender youth in its ranks, BSA HQ is in an absolute panic.

The decisions to go down this progressive path have been primarily engineered by two people: Rex Tillerson and Randall Stephenson. Both men have been or are CEOs of some of the largest corporations in the world. Both men came onto the BSA board of directors with an agenda to "modernize the membership" of the organization. Both men have bizarre hot/cold relationships with Trump which has made things weird for BSA. Most importantly, BOTH men were well aware that their agenda was going to cripple the organization, especially in the Bible Belt and LDS west. The 3rd party data from 2010 said the homosexual media debacle alone was going to have a huge cost for BSA, even if they made no changes. However, the predictions for the Southern region if gays were allowed was dire: 30% reductions in membership, 50% reduction in charter orgs, millions in lost revenue. That prediction has mostly come true......and yet they continued down the path.

Today, they have to replace 200,000 Scouts and their $24 registration fee to survive. (BTW, massive reduction will put the khaki shirt club below a half mil, about where it was in the 1920s). One of BSAs solutions is to raise the registration fee to $33 from $24, the largest year over year increase in its history. Importantly, that money just disappears when it is sent in to HQ. It doesnt stay in the unit. It doesnt buy the Scout anything. It doesnt help train his leaders. It doesnt help support his local camp. It goes to pay salaries and operating costs at HQ. *Poof*

The /other/ solution is really the nuclear option for BSA, including girls in its core programs Cub and Boy Scouts. If you have been in the organization any time at all, you will remember that comparing Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is somewhat of a long running game amongst members. However, Girl Scouts has always been held in a somewhat sacrosanct light by BSA. Baden Powell's wife, Olave, conceived Girl Guiding in the UK and Juliette Gordon Low brought it to the US in 1912 as Girl Scouts. GSUSA was included in the original Title 36 USC charter which gave them a wide latitude to claim intellectual property. And while BSA has gone after ANYONE who tries to create any scout-like organization, they have never gone after GSUSA and their single gender membership. Even when BSA has dabbled in co-ed programs before like Venturing and Explorers, it was always geared towards older teenagers, not the target market of GSUSA.

Yesterday, the gloves came off. BSA has quietly signaled for months that this was a done deal. (When BSA is not sure about something, they survey it, focus group it, discuss it, have the membership vote on it and then test it. When BSA wants to do something and they know their membership will hate it, they might email a survey to a few people then they announce it). GSUSA flipped out. They are still flipping out because this effectively means the end of their organization. I would expect BSA to now try and go after all the IP infringement they can with GSUSA since they are the only other org in the country using the term "scouting".

BSA has a few dozen employees that make well over a quarter million a year and their CEO will probably net well over a million when he retires. Ergo, failure is not an option. And failure is defined as loss of revenue.

TLDR People think this is about inclusiveness. It's not. It's about money.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV1966 View Post
While you may find me difficult to comprehend perhaps you'll think I've had to many Jack and Cokes tonight. Clearly you prefer Dogma and Lies.

Last edited by chet; October 12, 2017 at 16:27.
chet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 16:32   #31
badzero
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
badzero's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 65818
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 949
Looks like it's time to do away with the men and women sport teams and make them all inclusive.
__________________
_____________________________________________

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
badzero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 16:35   #32
Bug Tussell
.....
Silver Contributor
 
Bug Tussell's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 2872
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bug Tussell Farm in New Mexico
Posts: 5,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCdnSoldierInTx View Post
I've asked several people here, and to a person, all are dead set against this move. Women HATE the idea, fearing their girls will be open to unwanted advances, etc.

BSA used to be a Bible based boys organization with a set in stone set of guidelines for shaping and molding boys into responsible young men.
Now it seems it's becoming a modern age social club.
Two Nephews of mine are Eagle Scouts, and they are sickened by the change of direction of BSA over the last 6-8 years. Guns and shooting skills are now being frowned upon by some Scout Troops, being replaced by who knows what.
shoe shopping. discussing feelings. vegan lunch.
__________________
Make your time
Bug Tussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 18:27   #33
kfranz
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 101
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug Tussell View Post
shoe shopping. discussing feelings. vegan lunch.
Given that the only merit badge in Scouting related to shooting for much of their history was Marksmanship, which was changed to Rifle and Shotgun shooting, which was then seperated to Rifle shooting and Shotgun shooting, guns havent ever been the major part of the BSA program.

And while I am nostalgic regarding the way the Boy scouts "were", nothing I encountered while being a parent of scouts ever required a penis to complete. The stuff we worked on and toward was pretty universal to making "good people"

Last edited by kfranz; October 12, 2017 at 18:44.
kfranz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 21:14   #34
jt59
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 21735
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 112
I have to throw my two cents in on this one. I have been a scout leader (cubs, troop and Venture Crew) for several years. In my small town scout numbers are down from ten years ago and we have speculated for years that BSA would go full coed. I hate to see the LDS go, they are great scouts and leaders. When my son was in cub scouts we had many sisters attend our events because it was more fun than anything the girl scouts were doing. We had several local girls quit girl scouts in 10 grade because Venture crew was just more fun and adventurous. At the first leadership training weekend the girls got to shoot shotguns and pistols.
Many kids have learned to shoot with the BSA.
I know it is all about the money but I hope they can make this work.
jt59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12, 2017, 21:45   #35
KoKodog
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31665
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: on top of a wind swept ridge
Posts: 4,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug Tussell View Post
Fresh air. Young men. Young women.

What could go wrong?
I said this to my 80 year old mother tonight, she said,

"what could possibly go wrong"
__________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill
KoKodog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2017, 07:57   #36
Atla
Registered
Contributor
 
Atla's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 79587
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 103
I'm going to requote something that helped ease my fears. This was posted on an offroad forum I visit.

#######



Holy **** people
All this bantering and very few have put forward any real information as to what the plan or intention is from BSA.
Which, once you stop and listen to, actually resolves 90% of the issues raised here.

My background, for reference:
I'm another Eagle Scout, but also was a Cubmaster when my son was in Cubs, and now am an asst. Scoutmaster for our Troop. I've stayed very plugged in w/ the district and have been in some kind of leadership role for many years now.
This has been brewing a long time, and came right from the top. In August, all the Districts were given info to get out to solicit feedback from leaders, which was used to make the decision regarding how to move forward. Video from the BSA President etc. Guess what - overwhelming support, once people had all the info.

Background facts:
- It is widely recognized that (1) there are more single parents than ever and its hard on them to have kids (boys and girls) doing different things. By adding girls to the program, it also bring in BOYS whose parents otherwise could not bring them. This has been proven in other things that went co-ed. (2) girl scouts of USA SUCKS BALLS in comparison. Widely recognized by girls. They want to do what Boy Scouts do. They don't like the GSA program.

- Scouts in almost ALL other developed countries is co-ed, and has been for a long time. Guess what - it works there too.

- In looking down this road, the BSA President laid out several requirements that were MUSTS:
- there would be NO change to requirements for boys or "softening" of the program. End of story.
- requirements for girls MUST be either the same or of equivalent rigor. No "making it easier" them.
- They are NOT advocating for mixed co-ed patrols, activities etc. Rather, Troops can still be either all boy, or even all girl, or have both that operate mostly in parallel. How they operate is up to the charter organization. E.g. if an old school Baptist church wants to sponsor a boy-only Troop - fine, they do it, and if you want you kid in a boy only Troop, send him there. Meanwhile the girl who wants to be around just girls goes to a girl-only Troop.
The notion with mixed-troops is that they would likely operate segregated. Maybe start off opening ceremony together, then split for patrols, majority of meeting. On campout, camp mostly separately, join up for campfire and other large components.
- hence it is widely accepted and believed by all of admin that boys act differently around only boys, and that is a good thing to maintain and is intended as such. Unfortunately the press releases overlooked this critical detail.

- BSA specifically reached out to GSUSA about this and asked them to join forces. BSAs requirement though was that they had to change their program to match BSAs, to avoid watering it down. Guess what, Girl Scouts ignored this offer. So BSA moved onward.

- right now (in Fall 2018) it is ONLY integration at Cubs level. Even then, single-gender Dens. LATER, after a lot of input, sometime 2019 they'll start with middle-high school level (current Boy Scout ages).

- Yes, it's about enrollment, and ultimately $$. Annual dues had to go up a lot this year b/c enrollment is down. The biggest excuse is not video games or cost, its an increasing desire from parents for their kids to do things at the same time. BSA is in fact a business, they have to stay in the black. Can't blame them for that.

OK so those are the facts this is based on. So, no, there is no agenda to neutralize genders. There is no push to make things easier You still have the option of single-gender Troops, since it is widely expected many charter orgs, especially churches, will prefer this route. its not an intentional slight against girl scouts. They offer an inferior product and refused to get on board, so they're being pushed out of the way.

I'll also be the first to say, yeah, Scouts is not what it was when I was a kid. I'm in it now as a leader to help try and FIX it for my son and at least make his Troop awesome. But that's a separate issue.

As a dad of a 12 y/o boy and 7 y/o girl, I'm very happy about this. My daughter has been begging for years to do the same things her brother did. She is soooo disappointed in Girl Scouts. They literally barred our Daisy Troop from going camping. And as a Scout leader - I don't see the big deal. My bigger concern is, with all these girls, are we gonna get an equal increase in parental involvement to help run things???
__________________
WORKINGCLASSREADER.com
Political and Social Commentary in a World Gone Mad.
New Post - 10/16 - On Friday - I killed a coworker
Atla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2017, 08:03   #37
Hana9
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 79425
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Zagreb/Croatia-because I want to be a part of this community
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoKodog View Post
I said this to my 80 year old mother tonight, she said,

"what could possibly go wrong"
totally that
Hana9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2017, 08:30   #38
kfranz
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 101
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,015
That "no softening of standards" shit cracks me up. The BSA has no standards....
unless you count that you cant be a complete fatass to participate as a chaperone in high adventure trips, for which they use the ultra reliable USDA dietary guidlines to establish a max weight for your height...

Last edited by kfranz; October 13, 2017 at 12:08.
kfranz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2017, 10:27   #39
Abominog
Registered
 
Abominog's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 372
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Guadalcanal
Posts: 8,559
No way my daughter would want to do the Girl Scout thing. Unfortunately Boy Scouts isnít what it was either. Both are watered down experiences for suburbanites. Iíd be ok with my daughter in Boy Scouts for a few years sheíd kick their pansy butts. Age 14 though....maybe not so much.

I donít care either way both organizations have been useless since I was a kid.
__________________
They will live a long time, these men of the South Pacific. They, like their victories, will be remembered as long as our generation lives. Longer and longer shadows will obscure them, until their Guadalcanal sounds distant on the ear like Shiloh and Valley Forge. --- Michener, Tales of the South Pacific

Tempus Edax Rerum
Abominog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2017, 12:02   #40
ratas calientes
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
ratas calientes's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1841
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 8,875
Long time Eagle scout here. All three sons are Eagles. Not sure what to think about this.
__________________
Ratas Calientes (Hot Rats)
Rats are people too!
ratas calientes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2017, 00:31   #41
V guy
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
V guy's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 10282
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: miami
Posts: 14,368
What do 12-14 year old girls talk about? It ain't square knots.
Lettem sell girl scout cookies and stay with their peers.

Boys are always behind the same age girls socially. That is why girls always go for the older guys in high school.

Talk about a good way to ruin an org, let the girls run it like the yearbook society??? Achievement and learning skills IS the heritage..Hitler had a good idea; all his boys turned into men.

Turning the Boy Scouts into the girl scouts, or into another version of everyday middle school, is not going to work.

Civil Air Patrol and high school ROTC, well those are far different animals.


Transgendered are not being accepted by the military now and probably gays too.
V guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2017, 16:35   #42
Zimm
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 76302
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palmetto Florida
Posts: 105
Okay,I'm a little confused with what the problem you guys see.
First you say boys and girls together,what could go wrong
Then you say they already offer venture crew for older kids(14-21)
Seems like if there would be a problem we would already see it.
I was a scoutmaster for my son who was a life scout.we moved a lot as he got older and couldn't complete his eagle project ,so no eagle .
Zimm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2017, 19:26   #43
martin35
un viejo gringo
Contributor
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 2939
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,821
Seminal events are the seeds of what's to come or what's wanted to come,,, this is a seminal event for the propagation of metro sexual bonerless males.
No female can raise a pup tent hands free in the morning,,, it's the sad passing of a era.
martin35 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 15, 2017, 06:43   #44
hueyville
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 4,180
Worked with Scouts 30 years. Only Troops worth anything are church based as there is some church policy that spills over. Nothing worse than staying up all night keeping girls and boys from sneaking in each others tents, latrine and bathing issues with young teens then have to keep up with them all day. Last gay troop leader encountered quit before trip was over but that didn't really happen.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2015 The FAL Files