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Old April 15, 2019, 16:39   #51
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Jim, JM is a religious bigot and about the furtherest one can get from a follower of Jesus Christ. He makes that manifestly evident with each post. I think he will be in for a big surprise one of these days. Erebody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin'...
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:41   #52
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So, when did Iran attack us? Just askin'.
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:45   #53
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
Iran has been a state sponsor or terrorism for quite some time. Trump simply made it official. Why did he do that?

It should be about time for Iran to have their nuke program about ready. Israel wants to hit them to prevent a first strike.
Anybody here know much about International law or U.N. protocol?

Maybe when Iran gets hit, the US doesn't have to get involved. Maybe the US can prevent the UN from taking action against Israel when Iran is on 'The List'.
Why the fascination with Israel? From what I hear, they support terrorism as well! So many Judaizer's in this world!
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:45   #54
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Originally Posted by Texgunner View Post
Jim, JM is a religious bigot and about the furtherest one can get from a follower of Jesus Christ. He makes that manifestly evident with each post. I think he will be in for a big surprise one of these days. Erebody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin'...
Seems like JM is off his meds these days and getting fruitier than a nut cake.
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:50   #55
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Seems like JM is off his meds these days and getting fruitier than a nut cake.
Sadly so melt. There are more and more nuts in this world these days. I know you've noticed.
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:54   #56
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Again

Trump's move may have been to block UN protocol. His move may be to keep the US out of another war.
His move may have been to put pressure on Putin
His move may have been to put pressure on the UN

All I'm saying is it wasn't a bad move on Trump's part.
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Old April 15, 2019, 16:57   #57
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Sadly so melt. There are more and more nuts in this world these days. I know you've noticed.
Nah, I don't think it's changed much. Before the interwebs they were probably just as prolific. The interwebs has sure opened my eyes to how damn screwed up people are now that they can channel it beyond their living room.
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Old April 15, 2019, 17:04   #58
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Again

Trump's move may have been to block UN protocol. His move may be to keep the US out of another war.
His move may have been to put pressure on Putin
His move may have been to put pressure on the UN

All I'm saying is it wasn't a bad move on Trump's part.
Agree, covering Israel's or even the Saudi's hit on their nuke sites seems logical.

People often forget, its;

Death to America,,,,,, and also,,,,,,,Death to Israel.

As to Heiser man's question, why all the fascination with Israel, only democracy in the middle east, and damn fine good looking women!
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Old April 15, 2019, 17:07   #59
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Every action has an equal and opposite reaction! The rest is the Golden Rule! - and we have all gone blind! Some one did cast the first stone - and they were already with sin - not so sure that either the USA, or Iran were the first tho'! Damned neocons?!
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Old April 15, 2019, 20:51   #60
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Jim, JM is a religious bigot and about the furtherest one can get from a follower of Jesus Christ. He makes that manifestly evident with each post. I think he will be in for a big surprise one of these days. Erebody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin'...
Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.
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Old April 15, 2019, 21:36   #61
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JM you sound like a really 'good' Christian - you just 'radiate' love!
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Old April 16, 2019, 00:04   #62
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Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.

Ya know, you are giving people of faith, a really bad name, correct?

I know a little about the Hebrew faith and can assure you, none of us know what you're speaking about with all this doom and gloom being upon us all, nor, that its your way or the highway to hell for everyone.

""Some people"" are all wrapped up around the axle about Israel's founding and a few passages cherry picked from the Bible, that's a given.

They even get excited about the "red heifer" etc.

THIS WEEK, Jews and Christians are celebrating, both Easter and Pesach, in Israel, and around the world, a time of peace for both religions, a time to remember and reflect upon ones on faith, history, and yes, a future.

I just asked, my Rabbi, what he thought the Braves chances were come October, and he assures me, maybe on the Braves this postseason, and that its looking real good, nothing biblical is on the horizon for any of us.

My wife, the Baptist, repeats, OFTEN, no one knows the time and date of his coming.

And stop being such an ass to other people and their faith in G-D.

It sounds bad, stinks to high heaven, and makes you sound like a Westboro Baptist loon.

So, ease up, relax, enjoy what life has to offer.
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Old April 16, 2019, 01:05   #63
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Originally Posted by Texgunner View Post
Jim, JM is a religious bigot and about the furtherest one can get from a follower of Jesus Christ. He makes that manifestly evident with each post. I think he will be in for a big surprise one of these days. Erebody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin'...
Only way for me to not drag myself into the same gutter is to ignore the people that get me stirred up. I am not a good Christian that can just turn their back, being a convert to religion I ain't got the knack of the other cheek thing. Only cheek I have to offer is so they can kiss my butt. Look at that, back sliding again...
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Old April 16, 2019, 09:40   #64
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Only way for me to not drag myself into the same gutter is to ignore the people that get me stirred up. I am not a good Christian that can just turn their back, being a convert to religion I ain't got the knack of the other cheek thing. Only cheek I have to offer is so they can kiss my butt. Look at that, back sliding again...
I wouldn't let JM's lips anywhere near my ass.

And I'm a bit disappointed that Texgunner got a longer rant than I did.
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Old April 16, 2019, 09:47   #65
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/u...-failures.html

You gotta stay current on the facts. We are attacking Iran, as I write this.

We must stop Iran from developing any ability, to create and deliver, an EMP device.

It is necessary to kick some Iranian Butt, right now.
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:12   #66
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Religion, the root of all evil!
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:15   #67
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Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.
You are an exceptionally ignorant man when it comes to the catholic church. Where do you get this drivel? Jack Chick cartoons?
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:28   #68
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Religion, the root of all evil!
Damn, and all this time, I thought it was the British Empire.
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:32   #69
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Religion, the root of all evil!
Its not the religion that's evil but the men in it that use it for evil purposes. However a prime example of those without religion is the communist party. Commies murdered over a 100 million people to take control of Russia and China, not even the muzzies can boast so much murder in so short of a time.

Iran is making deals with the commies for weapons and support, ever wonder how the Mullahs justify to their people bringing the godless commies to Iran? Commies that have been killing muzzies in Czecknia for decades.
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:37   #70
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Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.
me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace.

Are You Saved?
"For it is not the man who commends himself that is accepted,
but the man whom the Lord commends."
2Corinthians 10:18

Some non-Catholics teach that all you have to do to achieve salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, and your salvation is assured in this life. You only have to make a once in a lifetime commitment and no matter what you do for the rest of your life, you can be certain that you will go to Heaven when you die. Once you do this, it is an impossibility that you will ever lose your salvation. That train of thought, however, is not Biblical, and in reality it is a sin of presumption.
Jesus did not die just so we could sin.

Let us examine Holy Scripture and see what it has to say.
"For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord, and believe in your heart that GOD has raised Him from the dead, You shall be saved." Romans 10:9
"For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13
This is what St. Paul said. Some non-Catholics use these two verses, taken completely out of context, to try to provide justification for their false, man made, "Once saved, always saved" belief.
A text without a context is only a pretext.
If they would only read further on in the same chapter they would clearly see the context of Romans 10:9 and 13, and the fallacy of this false belief:

Romans 10:14 "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?"
In this verse we see that in order to properly hear the word of GOD so that they may believe, there is a condition attached.
They cannot "believe in Him" unless they have heard it, and have heard it from a preacher.
Does that verse mean any preacher, even a false one (2Cor 11:12-15)?
No, definitely not, for Holy Scripture teaches that it could not be just any preacher, but only a preacher who is sent by GOD.
The very next verse will teach us this.

Romans 10:15, And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written (Isaiah 52:7, Nahum 1:15*), "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!" (Please note that "good news" is the meaning of the word "Gospel".)
"And how can men preach unless they are sent?" Sent?
If anyone has been sent, then it stands to reason that "someone" had to do the sending. Isn't that true?
By simple deduction, and by common sense, the question must be asked that they who were sent then, were sent by whom?
In this verse we can see and hear the death knell of the "Once saved, always saved" false belief.
The word for "sent", as used in the Greek language of which the book of Romans was written, is apostello.
Doesn't that sound like another Biblical word for which we are all familiar?
Apostello means to send out properly on a mission. From apostello we get the Greek word "apostolos", meaning "Apostle".
The Greek word "Apostolos" means "he who is sent".
So who are the "they" who are those sent, and by whom are "they" sent?
The same Greek word, apostello, is used by Jesus Christ when He spoke to His "Apostolos" in John 20:21:
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."
It is obvious that those who are sent (apostello) by GOD are also given authority by Jesus Christ who is GOD.
That authority was delegated to the Apostles alone by Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:15 had said, "And how can men preach unless they are sent?". I must ask, "Sent by whom and with what authority?"
"And He appointed twelve, to be with Him, and to be sent out to preach..." Mark 3:14
So, those who are sent, are sent with the authority given to them by GOD. Consequently, the only persons authorized to preach are the Apostles, and those who followed them in a long line of succession, the office of the Bishops (Psalms 109:8, Acts 1:20).
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:42   #71
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Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.
Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul.

The Catholic Church or the Papacy is "The Whore of Babylon".
How many times have you heard that from the Protestant Fundamentalist mouth?
Those who propagate that lie are also the same ones who claim to follow the Bible religiously.
Okay, let us see if they follow Scripture to the word, as they profess to do.

They base this lie from the Book of Revelation Chapter 17:

"1. Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters. 2. The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry.” 3. Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns. 4. The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry. 5. On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.” 6. I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed. 7. The angel said to me, “Why are you amazed? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns. 8. The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again. 9. Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits."
Revelation 17:1-9

Verse 9 is what Protestants, including the first one, use to try to "prove" what they had said.
We all should realize by now that truth can be proven, but the lie cannot.
Notice very closely in verse 9, the words "Here is a clue for one who has wisdom", as it clearly shows that those who do not have wisdom will interpret this verse as saying the seven hills upon which the woman sits is Rome. Demonizing? I will prove what I said here:

"The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth."
Revelation 17:18
So, the woman is a great city, and from what we have found so far is that she sits upon seven hills.
So now, how do we determine which city is the great city? Are there other cities in the world other than Rome which sit on seven hills? Well, for one, Jerusalem does. How then do we determine which city is the great city spoken of in Revelation 17:18?
Well, believe it or not, the Book of Revelation tells us in another verse which city is the great city:

"Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, which has the symbolic names “Sodom” and “Egypt”, where indeed their Lord was crucified."
Revelation 11:8

So, in which great city was the Lord Crucified? Was He crucified in Rome? No, it was Jerusalem, as "those who have wisdom" can readily see quite easily. With Scripture as clear as these verses, why then do non-Catholics continue to say the great city is Rome, other than to try to Demonize the Catholic Church? Answers anyone?

Revelation 11:8 is yet another verse which was ignored by Martin Luther and which is still being ignored by his Protestant Fundamentalist followers.
Once again, the lie of Protestantism is exposed, destroyed by the truth of Holy Scripture.

Another bit of information which fits quite nicely here, is the fact that the "seven hills of Rome", as they are called in Biblical times, all lie east of the Tiber River, whereas the Vatican, the seat of Christianity, which came hundreds of years later, is located to the west of the Tiber. For those who wish to check this for themselves, the names of the seven hills of Rome in its origin are the Palatine, Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.

Here are verses from Holy Scripture which describe a great city.
Notice that not one verse describes Rome as being a great city.

Great city, Babylon: Rev 14:8,16:19,17:5,18:2,10,21
Great city, Jerusalem: Neh 7:4, Jer 22:8, Lam 1:1, Rev 11:8,16:19,17:18,18:16, Rev 18:18-19,21:10
Great city, Nineveh: Jonah 1:2,3:2-3,4:11

Here is a Biblical comparison between Jerusalem and Rome. See what the Bible says about each:

There are many verses describing Jerusalem. See how many are degradations which dovetail perfectly with the "Whore of Babylon".

Jerusalem in Holy Scripture:

Abomination: Ez 16:2, Mal 2:11
Associate of the Scarlet Beast: Rev 17:1-3
Babylon: Rev 17:5,18:2,18:10,21
Babylon the Great: Rev 17:5
Bad City: Ezra 4:8,12
Bloody City: Ez 22:2,24:6,9, Nah 3:1
Burdensome Stone: Zech 12:3
Captivity of Jerusalem: Joel 3:1
City of Precious Stones and Fine Clothing: Ex 35:30-36,39:1-2, Ex 39:8-14, Isa 52:1, Rev 18:16-17
Cup of Trembling: Zech 12:2
Cursed in the City: Deut 28:15-19
Daughter: Lev 21:9, Lam 2:15-18.
Death of the Prophets: Mt 23:29-36, Lk 11:47-51,13:31-34, Rev 17:5-6,18:24
Den of Dragons: Jer 9:11
Desolation: Isa 64:10, Dan 9:2
Destroyed by Fire: Deut 29:22-24, Lev 21:9,26:15-16,27-28, Ez 16:2-3,35,38,41, Ez 19:12,21:2-3, Ez 22:19-21, Ez 23:2-4,17-19,22-25,44-47, Lam 2:all, Neh 1:3, Mt 24:15-22, Mk 13:14-20, Lk 21:20-24, Rev 18:8,17. Note: Jerusalem was completely destroyed by fire in 70 A.D., whereas Rome was only partially burned by Nero in 64 A.D.. This is yet another reason why the Whore of Babylon could not possibly be associated with Rome, for the whore is destroyed by fire in Rev 17:16.
Egypt: Rev 11:8
Evil brought upon Jerusalem: Ez 14:22
Evil Done to the Saints in Jerusalem: Acts 9:13,21
Faithful City: Isa 1:21
Fire Devouring Palaces of Jerusalem: Amos 2:5
Fornicator: Jer 13:27, Rev 18:3,9
Four Grievous Judgments upon Jerusalem, sword, famine, beasts, and pestilence: Ez 14:21
Fury upon Jerusalem: Ez 9:8
Gomorrah: Isa 1:10, Jer 23:14, Rom 9:27-29
Great City: Jer 22:4-8, Rev 11:8,17:18,18:10,16,18-19,21
Great Evil upon Jerusalem: Dan 9:12
Great Harlot (RSV): Rev 17:1,19:2
Great Mourning in Jerusalem: Zech 12:11
Great Whore, (KJ): Rev 17:1,19:2
Habitation of Demons: Rev 18:2
Harlot (RSV): Isa 1:21, Jer 2:20,3:3,6,5:7, Ez 16:1-3,15-16,28,31,35, Ez 16:41, Ez 23:2-49, Hos 3:3,4:15, Joel 3:3, Amos 7:17, Mic 1:7, Nah 3:4, Rev 17:1,5,15-16
Her: Rev 17:4,18:4-10,20,24
Immoral: Rev 18:3
Iniquity Built Jerusalem: Mic 3:10
Jerusalem Encompassed with Armies: Lk 21:20
Jerusalem Killed the Prophets: Matt 23:37, Lk 13:33-34
Jerusalem Shall be Trodden Down: Lk 21:24
Jerusalem to Become Heaps: Mic 3:12
Jesus Killed in Jerusalem: Matt 16:21, Mk 10:33
Laid Waste: Ez 26:2
Menstruous Woman: Lam 1:17
Mother of Harlotries: Rev 17:5
Mother of the Abominations of the Earth: Rev 17:5
Prostitute: Jer 2:20, Ez 16:15
Queen: Rev 18:7
Rebellious City: Ezra 4:8,12
Reduced to Ruins: Psa 79:1, Isa 3:8
Removed: Lam 1:8
She: Rev 18:2
Sin and Uncleanness: Zech 13:1
Sinned Grievously: Lam 1:8
Smitten City: Ez 33:21
Sodom: Isa 1:10, Jer 23:14, Rom 9:27-29, Rev 11:8
Sorcerer: Rev 18:23
Unfaithful Wife: Ex 16:1-3,44-63
Whore (KJ): Ez 16:28, Rev 17:1,15-16
Wickedness of Heart: Jer 4:14
Woman: Rev 17:3-9,18
Worship of GOD shall not be in Jerusalem: Jn 4:21

With such titles as, Abomination, Associate of the Scarlet Beast, Babylon, Bad, Bloody City, Cursed, Death of the Prophets, Evil brought upon, Evil Done to the Saints, Fornicator, Gomorrah, Great Harlot, Great Whore, Habitation of Demons, Harlot, Immoral, Laid Waste, Mother of Harlotries, Mother of Abominations, Prostitute, Rebellious, Smitten City, Sodom, Sorcerer, Unfaithful Wife, Whore, and Wickedness of Heart, do you have any doubts as to just whom, what, or where, the Whore of Babylon refers?

Rome in Holy Scripture:
Here is every verse in the Bible that mentions Rome by name:

Visitors from Rome, Acts 2:10
Claudius ordered Jews to leave Rome, Acts 18:2
Paul said he must also see Rome, Acts 19:21
Bear witness in Rome, Acts 23:11
We came to Rome, Acts 28:14
On our arrival at Rome, Acts 28:16
To all GOD's beloved who are in Rome, Rom 1:7
I am ready to preach the gospel to you also who are at Rome, Rom 1:15,
But when he came to Rome he sought me out, 2Tim 1:17

Contrast what is written about Jerusalem in Scripture with what is written about Rome?
Where is the coarse and degrading language regarding Rome in Holy Scripture?

"And in her was found the blood of the prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."
Revelation 18:24
"For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
Revelation 19:2
What city is responsible for the blood of the prophets? Is it Rome, or is it Jerusalem?
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!"
Luke 13:34
Again, what city is responsible for the blood of the prophets?
Jesus Christ in Holy Scripture clearly said it is Jerusalem.
Why then do Protestants insist it is Rome, when Holy Scripture does not agree with them?

The only place I could find regarding the Demonizing of Rome, or association of Rome with the Whore of Babylon, is from the false charges spread by Protestantism, as I can find nothing whatsoever from Holy Scripture to support what clearly is a lie.
Remember, for believers of the false man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura, if you cannot find it in the Bible then it simply did not happen, or does not exist, right?


Now that the lie of the Whore of Babylon being connected with Rome has been exposed, let us find from whom it had its origin.
There are no authentic historical documents in which the Catholic Church or the papacy is called the Whore of Babylon before the Protestant reformation of 1520-1521.
Therefore, it is a Protestant fabrication. Isn't this Demonizing?

When you think about it, a lie or fabrication, is an untruth designed to deceive, denigrate, or to calumnize another. Jesus Christ said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life", in John 14:6.
If He is the truth then the devil is the liar, and Jesus even said so speaking of him in John 8:44,
"When he tells a lie he speaks from his very nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
So from whom, and through whom, comes the Demonizing of the Catholic Church?

Referring again to Hebrews 13:17, Luther obviously failed to comprehend, or he deliberately ignored the fact, that the Catholic Church to which he belonged never was, and is not today, a democracy, but a "theocracy" which is governed by a hierarchy. Jesus Christ Himself is the invisible head (Ephesians 5:23), who governs through His visible head, or "Father Figure" on earth through whom GOD has always spoken, and in conjunction with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, John 16:12-14, Acts 15:28).

"But just as the Church is subject to Christ, so also let wives be to their husbands in all things".
Ephesians 5:24.
With that said, you can clearly see that the governing powers of the Catholic Church do not come from the Body of Christ but from the Head. Scripture does not say that the Church is subject to any person, as in a democracy. It is obvious from "Here is a clue for one who has wisdom", as mentioned earlier, that the head always tells the body what to do. The body, Luther, or any other person can never tell the head what to do in a theocracy.

Luther took it upon himself, as a member of the body who had no authority whatsoever, to try to tell the visible head of the Church on earth, how to run it. He did make some good points, as some things needed to be changed. However, he went about it the wrong way. Some personnel needed to be changed, but instead, Luther decided to break from the Church which Jesus Christ founded, and to form his own church. Now, I ask anyone to show me the verse in the Bible which gives authority for any human person to found another church other than the ONE Church which the divine person of Jesus Christ founded in Matthew 16:18?

Here is yet another verse which Luther either did not see, or intentionally ignored:
"Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain."
Psalms 127:1
Doesn't that one verse negate every church founded by mere human persons?
Doesn't it say that the labors of Martin Luther and all of his followers are in vain?

By September 1522, Luther had translated the New Testament into his version of the German Bible. It is to be noted that Luther taught a false doctrine that man was saved by faith alone, and upon his own recognizance and without any authority, he added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, as mentioned earlier, thereby ignoring all of the verses which admonish anyone not to add to or take away from, the Holy Word of GOD.
He displayed his inflated ego and total arrogance, when he wrote the following regarding his addition:

"If your Papist annoys you with the word (alone), tell him straightway, Dr. Martin Luther will have it so: Papist and ass are one and the same thing. Whoever will not have my translation, let him give it the go-by: the devil's thanks to him who censures it without my will and knowledge. Luther will have it so, and he is a doctor above all the doctors in Popedom."
Amic. Discussion, 1, 127. Demonizing again!
My My, tsk tsk, such language Dr Luther, and didn't he elevate himself above everyone on earth?
This is the example set by the first Protestant, for his version of the command of Jesus Christ of,
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew 22:36-40).


The only verse in the whole Bible in which the words "faith" and "alone" are both to be found, is in James 2:24, and it says "NOT" by faith alone. By the way, it is for this reason, that James was one of several New Testament books which Luther wanted to remove from the Bible. The book of James, among others, proved to be a great embarrassment to him, since it was diametrically opposed to his teaching.
He wrote regarding it:

"...the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical." Luther's "Preface to the New Testament".

He also wrote against the Book of Revelation:

"...to my mind it bears upon it no marks of an apostolic or prophetic character... Everyone may form his own judgment of this book; as for myself, I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it."
Sammtliche Werke, 63, pp. 169-170

By writing against Holy Books of the Bible, inspired by GOD, wasn't Luther judging GOD Himself?
"And the LORD said to Job: "Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it."" Job 40:1-2

He also, again without any authority, removed seven books from the Old Testament which had been in the Bible for over 1100 years, simply because they did not agree with his false teaching.

One of the many arguments for the impossibility of the false man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura ever being workable at that time, was the fact that 90-95% of the population was illiterate. If they could not read, then how could anyone say it is "bible only", which by its very title meant being literate? Present day Protestants deny this. History proves them wrong. However, paradoxically, their founder and the originator of Sola Scriptura, found himself in a dilemma. How could he claim Sola Scriptura, and at the same time convey his message to a mostly illiterate populace? Realizing this, Luther decided the best way to convey his message was through pictures added to his text. Consequently, he had his artist friend Lucas Cranach (1472-1553) make woodcuts, pictures, and had them inserted into his German bibles so that all of the populace could see and understand his teaching, first in his native Germany, and then throughout much of Europe.
It was by a visual reference that Luther first communicated with the bulk his followers the false charge of the Papacy as being the Whore of Babylon. Here is a reproduction of that woodcut.



The Pope as the Whore of Babylon, as portrayed in a woodcut by Martin Luther's
friend and artist, Lucas Cranach, September 1522.


Notice that the figure is carrying a golden cup (Rev 17:4) shaped like a chalice with a cross on top, and is wearing a three tiered Papal crown. Neither a chalice with a cross on top, nor a Papal crown is mentioned in Revelation 17, nor a Pope either, for that matter.
This is nothing more than another Protestant fabrication designed to Demonize the Catholic Church. I seem to recall earlier in this text that the man made doctrine of Sola Scriptura, by its very title and nature, assumes that everything is in the Bible, and as such, demands that anything not mentioned in it is not to be believed. Well I wish some Sola Scriptura believer could show me in Biblical text where a chalice, a triple papal tiara, and the Pope are found? For this fabrication of Protestant Sola Scriptura believers to be true, then please show me where I can find it in Holy Scripture?
Therefore Luther has shown us yet another error of his ways, that of hypocrisy. If it is not in the Bible, but fits his method to Demonize the Catholic Church, he will use it regardless of the rules of Sola Scriptura.
Interestingly, apparently the outcry of the masses over the woodcuts was so great that Luther removed the offensive ones, such as this one, from his German translation just a few months later. That is why it is so hard to find. But alas, the genie of the title "Whore of Babylon" was yet another genie which Luther had released and found himself powerless to put back into the bottle.

More of Martin Luther's remarks. Here you can see more of his unauthorized changes and examples of his coarse language designed to Demonize the Catholic Church:
In his version of the Apostles Creed it reads, "One Holy Christian Church".
Isn't it written "One Holy Catholic Church"?

Smalcald Articles, 1537, Article II, of the Mass.
"The Mass in the Papacy must be the greatest and most horrible abomination."
Demonizing?
"The Mass itself and anything that proceeds from it, and anything that is attached to it, we cannot tolerate, but must condemn, in order that we may retain the holy Sacrament pure and certain..."

Smalcald Articles, 1537, Article IV, of the Papacy.
"A power so false, mischievous, blasphemous, arrogant and diabolical, a tyrant and faithless scoundrel for the ruin of the entire holy Christian church. All of which amounts to nothing less than [the Pope] saying, Although you believe in Christ, and have him [alone] everything that is necessary to salvation, yet it is nothing and all in vain unless you regard [have and worship] me as your god, and be subject and obedient to me."
Demonizing? Martin, where is this written by the Pope?

"As little as we can worship the devil himself as Lord and God, we can endure his Apostle, the Pope, or antichrist, in his rule as head or Lord." Demonizing?

"The Pope is not the head of all Christendom."
What about Luke 22:32? Another verse ignored?

"The holy Christian [or Catholic] Church can exist without such a head..."
Then why did Jesus appoint a head for His Church?

"The Papacy is of no use in the church, because it exercises no Christian office, and therefore it is necessary for the church to continue and to exist without the Pope."
What about Matthew 16:18?

"The Pope, however, prohibits this faith, saying that to be saved a person must obey him."
What about Hebrews 13:17?

"The Pope is the very antichrist who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ because he will not permit Christians to be saved without his power which is nothing and is either ordained nor commanded by God."
What about Luke 22:32? Demonizing?

"We will appear before the Pope and devil himself, who intends to listen to nothing, but merely to condemn, to murder, and to force us into idolatry."
Calumny Luther... Demonizing?

Smalcald Articles, 1537, Article X, Of Ordination and the call.
"...we ourselves will and ought to ordain suitable persons to this office."
Sorry Luther, but it takes a Bishop to ordain a priest, so your so-called "ordinations" as a priest are invalid.

Smalcald Articles, 1537, Article XII, Of the Church.
"We do not concede that they are the Church, and in truth they are not, nor do we listen to those things which, under the name of Church, they enjoin or forbid. For, thank GOD a child 7 years old knows what the church is..."
Once again, his followers are to believe what Luther said, and not what GOD said in Scripture.

Luther was also known to contradict himself in his writings, and this quote above is a perfect example. Earlier in this writing you may recall that I posted a contrary quote from him, and I have repeated it below.
Notice that both statements were written in the same year, 1537.

"We concede -- as we must -- that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS,
St. Louis, Mo., Concordia, 1961, 304

Against Catholicism, a pamphlet, par 2, 1535.
"We, through God's grace, are not heretics, but schismatics, causing, indeed, separation and division, wherein we are not to blame, but our adversaries, who gave occasion thereto, because they remain not by God's Word alone, which we have, hear, and follow."
This one sentence by Luther is loaded with admissions of deception. First the lie that he is not a heretic. I have shown otherwise in this writing. Next he admits he is schismatic. Then he admits to separation and division. Isn't that what apostates do?
"Has Christ been divided up?" 1Corinthians 1:13
Do you remember, "...he who does not gather with me scatters"? Luke 11:23
And what about the many verses which admonish us to be of one mind:
"I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."
John 17:20-21
Luther was not only disobedient to his superiors, but also to Jesus Christ Himself, and yet he claimed he was not a heretic.

Holy Scripture is teeming with verses telling us to lead pure lives and to avoid sin.
Luther, however, writes a different story.

Letter to Melanchthon, August 1,1521 Luther's Works, vol. 48
"If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly.... as long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin.... No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."

Next, typical of what his followers do today, he blames his adversaries and denies blame for his own deeds. Finally he injects his false doctrine of Sola Scriptura with 'God's Word alone'.

Against Catholicism, a pamphlet, par 5, 1535
"There are many that think I am too fierce against popedom; on the contrary, I complain that I am, alas! too mild;"
Luther, I would not call demonizing another human person mild.

Riffel, Kirchengeschichte.
"Heretics are not to be disputed with, but to be condemned unheard, and whilst they perish by fire, the faithful ought to pursue the evil to its source, and bathe their heads in the blood of the Catholic bishops, and of the Pope, who is the devil in disguise."
Luther advocating murder? Calling the Pope the devil is demonizing the Pope again Luther.

Walch, XVIII, 245.
"As for pope, cardinals, bishops, "and the whole brood of Roman Sodom", why not attack it with every sort of weapon and wash our hands in its blood."
Luther called for murder of others again.

The Church and the Pope, Chapter 5, Against the Papacy, An Institution of the Devil.
"The Pope being born from the devils behind".
Calumny, lies, and filth Martin, and from where does it come? Did anyone read John 8:44?
What could this be called other than demonizing another human being of whom Jesus Christ commanded us to love?

Luther had a low opinion of women.

Works 12.94
"The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes."
Works 20.84
"Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child- bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children till they die, that is what they are there for."

Luther was highly anti-semitic later in his life.
Look at some of what he wrote against those who are the very roots of Christianity.

Concerning the Jews and Their Lies, 1543.
"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
Again Luther condones the murder of innocent people.

Concerning the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
"First, their synagogues or churches (sic) should be set on fire, and whatever does not burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt so that no one may ever be able to see a cinder or stone of it.
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed.
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under the threat of death to teach any more...
Fifthly, passports and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to Jews.
Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping.
Seventhly, let the young Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the ax, the hoe, the spade, the distaff and spindle, and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses..."

Tragically, these anti-Semitic rantings written by Luther were adopted and carried out by thugs of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Third Reich in that terrible Kristallnacht in November 1938 in Germany.
Added to the Luther Legacy was Hitler's admiration who revered him as a great German.
Hitler wrote this about Luther in his book Mein Kampf:

"To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all other great reformers as well.
Beside Frederick the Great stands Martin Luther as well as Richard Wagner."
Mein Kampf, book 1, chap 7, "The Beginning of my Political Activity", October 16, 1924

Now let me recap what I have presented here:
It is the Legacy left by Martin Luther, and all of Protestantism owes its heritage to this one man.
As I said at the beginning, it is not something anyone should be proud of.
Again, from Revelation 17:9, "Here is a clue for one who has wisdom".
Take heed!

1. Luther had no Biblical authority to do any of the things of which he did.

2. Luther started the false man made doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Then he promptly defied the theme of it by ignoring many verses from Scripture which I have mentioned in this writing,
Psalms 127:1
Hebrews 13:17
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 18:15-17
Luke 22:32
Acts 5:29
Ephesians 5:24
James 2:24
Revelation 11:8

3. Luther started the man made "individual interpretation of Holy Scripture" and ignored verses of Scripture which forbid it. Since I could not find the verse which authorizes individual interpretation of Scripture, then this is another violation of Sola Scriptura by him.
2Peter 1:20-21
Acts 8:26-34

4. Luther denied Apostolic tradition which had been preserved for almost 1500 years.
That was a clear violation of, 2Thessalonians 2:15

5. Luther added to the Bible, in Romans 3:28, inserting the word "alone". This was a clear violation of all of the verses which forbid any person to do so.

See Deut 4:2, Deut 11:32,13:1,Psa12:7,33:4,50:16-17,10 Psa 7:10-11,119:57,139-140, Prov 5:7,
Prov 30:5-6, Eccl 3:14, Jer 23:36, Gal 1:8-9, 1Pet 1:24-25, 2Pet 3:15-16, and Rev 22:18-20.

6. Luther subtracted from the Bible, the seven Deuterocanonical books which had been in the Bible for over 1100 years, and he wanted to remove others such as the book of James from the New Testament. This is a clear violation of Holy Scripture in many places, proving him to be guilty of all of the verses shown in the previous segment.
Show me the verse in Scripture which authorized him to do this?

7. Luther ignored other verses which I have not presented earlier.
No private interpretation of Holy Scripture, Acts 8:26-34
That we all may be ONE, and not more than the one Church which Jesus Christ founded
in Matthew 16:18

8. Luther refuted the GOD given gift of ordination by a Bishop, by saying he will do his own ordination. Clearly, this is blatant arrogance at its worst, by creating heresy and placing himself above Holy Scripture.

9. He is guilty of calumnizing and Demonizing, and of calling for the murder of other human beings, while completely ignoring the command of Jesus Christ to love one another. (John 15:12)

10. He spoke against some of the New Testament books, two of which were James and Revelation.

11. By speaking against GOD's Holy Word, Luther has judged GOD Himself.

12. He converted Scripture handed down by GOD into scripture devised by man.

13. He preached anti-Semitism against the Jews who are the very roots of Christianity.

14. I have shown in this document that Martin Luther placed himself above the authority of the Church which Jesus Christ founded. He placed himself above Holy Scripture with his "listen to me" rhetoric, and he has tried to place himself above GOD by criticizing GOD's Holy Word.
Heisser Mann is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 16, 2019, 10:47   #72
Heisser Mann
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Originally Posted by JM View Post
Are you a Catholic Texgunner? Did you have Holy Water sprinkled on you as a baby? What is your faith? What do you believe? Anybody that supports or enables the Whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and attacks a messenger of God proclaiming her evil is very deceived or a lost soul. Calling me a religious bigot because I brought forth cold hard facts about this religion and without defending it with your own well studied facts on the subject is just a low IQ attack. Search--study--prove my facts wrong instead of acting like a fanatic and attacking me, a born again Christian. A man must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God--the eternal Words of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is a works based religion and you are not saved by God's Grace. You must work your way to Heaven in Catholicism. I enjoy a lively debate on the Worlds Religion's because I live outside the man made Institutions of organized religion. I've seen it all--well not all, because what is coming for you, Jim and all of us here is going to be a nightmare. It is coming soon and is like the birth pangs of a baby--soon-- the contractions will start, and Katy Bar the Door! Your life is going to change and it will never be the same. Most honest and intelligent people have a foreboding and know things are more intense now than in any time in their life or Modern History, it is undeniable. I am here to guide you when the shit goes down, and in the end you will be thankful if you heeded this message.
Baptism...

Baptism: A Sacrament by which a person is cleansed of all sin, by water, and by the Word of GOD.
In Baptism sin goes out and GOD comes in.
"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit...,
and the door which gives access to the other sacraments." CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) 1213.
In Baptism, we become the sons and daughters of GOD.


Typology of Baptism, prefigurements from the Old Testament...
The Lord said to Moses, "Take the Levites from among the Israelites and purify them. This is what you shall do to them to purify them. Sprinkle them with the water of remission then have them shave their whole bodies and wash their clothes, and so purify themselves."
Numbers 8:5-6

"Any unclean man who fails to have himself purified shall be cut off from the community, because he defiles the sanctuary of the Lord. As long as the lustral water has not been splashed over him, he remains unclean. This shall be a perpetual ordinance for you." Num 19:20-21

"Sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed; wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow ."
Psalms 51:9

"Wash your heart from wickedness, O Jerusalem, that you may be saved."
Jeremiah 4:14

"For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries, and I will bring you into your own land. And I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols. And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh. And I will put My Spirit in the midst of you, and I will cause you to walk in My Commandments, and to keep My judgments and to do them." Ezek 36:24-27

"...And I will save them out of all the places in which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them, and they shall be My people, and I will be their GOD."
Ezekiel 37:23

"In that day there shall be a fountain open to the house of David, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem; for the washing of the sinner, and of the unclean woman."
Zechariah 13:1


The first mention of Baptism in the New Testament is in the story of John the Baptist...

"...and they were Baptized by him in the Jordan."
Matthew 3:6

However, the Baptism by St. John was not yet a Christian Baptism, which began with Jesus Baptizing His disciples in John 3:22, and for all after the Resurrection of Christ. St John's was a Baptism of repentance.

"I indeed baptize you with water, for repentance. But He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to bear. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire."
Matthew 3:11

"If anyone thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture says, From within Him there shall flow rivers of living water." He said this, however, of the Spirit whom they who believed in Him were to receive; FOR THE SPIRIT HAD NOT YET BEEN GIVEN, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET BEEN GLORIFIED.
John 7:37-39

And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?" But they said to him, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "How then were you baptized?" They said, "With John's baptism." Then Paul said, "John baptized the people with a baptism of repentance, telling them to believe in Him who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus;"
Acts 19:2-5


What Church Fathers had to say about the Baptism by St. John...

"Even the Lord Himself said that unless He first ascended to the Father, the Spirit would not otherwise descend (John 16:7). Thus, what the Lord was not yet conferring, certainly the servant was not able to supply. Accordingly, we find afterwards in the Acts of the Apostles that those who had the Baptism of John had not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:1-5)."
Tertullian, Baptism, 10:4

"Know then, my beloved, that the Baptism of John was of no value for the forgiveness of sins, but for repentance."
Aphraates, Treatises, 12:10

"I ask then, if the Baptism of John remitted sins, what more could the Baptism of Christ do for those whom the Apostle Paul wanted to be baptized with the Baptism of Christ after they had received the Baptism of John? (Acts 19:4-5)"
St. Augustine, Baptism, 5:10:12

"...but those of whom John baptized, were they not baptized again?"
St. Augustine, Homilies on John, 5:18


It is to be noted that the same holds true for the Baptisms given by the Apostles also before the resurrection. It was not until Acts 2:3-4, when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, that they were able to perform the Baptism of Christ.
"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be witnesses for Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and even to the very ends of the earth."
Acts 1:8.
"And there appeared to them parted tongues as of fire, which settled upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in foreign tongues, even as the Holy Spirit prompted them to speak."
Acts 2:3-4.

Soon after the descent of the Holy Spirit, the Apostles began Baptizing the people...

"But Peter said to them, 'Repent and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'."
Acts 2:38

"Now they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand."
Acts 2:41.

"And now why do you delay? Get up and be Baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name."
Acts 22:16


Where is the authorization for Baptism?

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Matthew 28:19

Q. Who can Baptize?
A. Anyone who has the right intention to do what the Church does and has the use of reason.

Q. Who can be Baptized?
A. Anyone who has not been Baptized and who has the right intention. Anyone can be Baptized conditionally if there is doubt.

Q. What is the proper way to Baptize?
A. "The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
The Catechism of the Catholic Church...CCC-1278


Questions I have received regarding Baptism. My answers follow.

Baptism by immersion, I believe, is the only valid Baptism. After all, the very word Baptism, is taken from the Greek word 'baptizo' which means 'to dip'. Why doesn't the Catholic Church Baptize by immersion?

Yes you are right that the Greek word 'baptizo' (also 'baptisma', and 'baptismos' for baptism) means to dip. However, it also means to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to MAKE CLEAN WITH WATER, to wash ones self, or to bathe. If you wish to use the word 'dip' as the only meaning of baptism, then to 'dip' ones hand or foot in the water would be correct also. Is the purpose of Baptism to clean our bodies by immersion, or to 'make clean' our souls and make them pleasing to GOD, by the removal of original sin?
The Catholic Church does Baptize by immersion when requested, see CCC-1278.
Not all Catholic Churches have the facilities to Baptize by immersion, so you might have to go to a Church which does.
Now, why do you ask this? Is it because Jesus Christ was Baptized by immersion? If so, then I will have to say, He was crucified too before He arose into heaven. Does that mean we have to be crucified also before we can enter heaven?
Show me in the Bible where every time a Baptism was performed, it was said it was done by immersion? Show me where Jesus Christ was immersed? Scripture says He came up from the water, Matt 3:16, Mark 1:10. It does not say He was immersed. Throughout Scripture it says Baptize with water. Never does it say Baptize immersed in water. Jesus Christ said in John 3:5, "...unless a man be born again of water..." Again He did not say, 'born again Immersed in water'.
John 13:6-10, "He came, then, to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, "Lord do you wash my feet?" (7) Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you know not now; but you shall know hereafter." (8) Peter said to Him, "You shall never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you shall have no part with Me." (9) Simon Peter said to Him, "LORD, NOT MY FEET ONLY, BUT ALSO MY HANDS AND MY HEAD!" (10) JESUS SAID TO HIM, "HE WHO HAS BATHED NEEDS ONLY TO WASH, AND HE IS CLEAN ALL OVER. And you are clean, but not all.""
Verse 8 makes it clear that Jesus is talking about Baptism. Verse 10 makes it clear that the whole body does not have to be washed to make it clean. It is obvious that He is not talking of a cleansing of the body, but of the soul, thus making baptismal immersion not mandatory.

Go back and read Ezekiel 36:25 again. The Old Testament "type" of Baptism was by pouring or sprinkling.

The "Didache" is a genuine historical document which contains the teachings of the Apostles.
Here is how they performed early Baptisms...

DIDACHE CHAPTER 7:
7:1 But concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: having first recited all these precepts, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water;
7:2 but if thou hast not running water, baptize in some other water, and if thou canst not baptize in cold, in warm water;
7:3 but if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
7:4 But before the baptism, let him who baptizeth and him who is baptized fast previously, and any others who may be able. And thou shalt command him who is baptized to fast one or two days before.

Notice that the Apostles made no mention of "Baptism by Immersion" in this document..


Q. The Catholic Church Baptizes infants. Show me the Biblical authority to do this?

A. Where does it say in Holy Scripture, "Do not Baptize infants"? Show me the Biblical authority NOT to Baptize infants?

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 28:19, "GO, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit..."
He did not say adults only did he? Did he ever put an age limit to receive Baptism?

Acts 22:16, "and now WHY DO YOU DELAY? Get up and be Baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."
So why do you delay in Baptizing your children?

Acts 2:38, But Peter said to them, "Repent and be Baptized every one of you..."
I would say that verse would include everyone, including infants and children of all ages. Peter did not say to leave your infants at home.

Acts 16:15, "And when she and her household had been Baptized..."
Did her household have infants maybe? Did Luke say "everyone in her household except infants"?

Acts 16:33, "And he took them at that very hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he and ALL his family were baptized immediately."
Again, were infants excepted here?

1Corinthians 1:16, "I Baptized also the household of Stephanas..."
Did Paul say "everyone except infants"?

Luke 3:21, "Now it came to pass when all the people had been baptized..."
Aren't infants part of "all the people"?

For those who deny infant baptism, the burden of proof is upon you to show that in all of the verses listed above there were no infants in all of those households and families.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19:14, "Let the little children be, and do not hinder them from coming to me."
He also said in John 3:5, "...unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD."
How are they to come to Him unless they are Baptized?
Those who say not to Baptize infants clearly have a Biblical conflict here, and they risk the salvation of the souls of their children.

The baptism of the New Testament makes a man a Christian, and baptism saves,
Acts 2:38, Romans 6:4, 1Peter 3:21.
The "type" of baptism in the Old Testament was circumcision, which made a man a Jew,
Genesis 17:10-14.
Circumcision had to be done early in life, on the eighth day of birth.
"He that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations..."
Genesis 17:12
Eight days old and every male, certainly does include infants, does it not?
I must ask: Since circumcision of infants was so important for the GOD of the Old Testament,
why then are children excluded from Baptism by some in the New Testament?

"When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him as GOD had commanded him."
Genesis 21:4

"And when eight days were fulfilled for his circumcision, his name was called Jesus..."
Luke 2:21

Where in the Old Testament does it say not to circumcise infants?

Once again, where does it say in the New Testament not to baptize infants?

One final note regarding infant baptism:

Infant baptism in the Catholic Church is just about the strongest demonstration of salvation without works that there could possibly be.
The infant can do nothing, nor does the infant need to do anything, in order to be "saved". The church freely supplies all that's necessary, including the water, the faith, and the grace, while the infant truly becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit, an adopted child of God, a member of the Church, and co-heir with Jesus Christ ... simply because God desires all to be saved.
The Catholic sacrament of Confirmation later allows each person to make the declaration of faith that was made for them at baptism.
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Old April 16, 2019, 10:56   #73
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I am here because, you are , or most of you are unsaved men. I study all of you carefully. There may be a few Born Again Christians on this sight but they will remain silent for fear of your ridicule. I find it exhilarating! It does not bother me in the least as long as I get the message out that I was sent to deliver. Jim's fury and curse directed at me for demeaning his man made Institution is the same type of fury and hatred the Pharisee's(Jews-Yellowhand) had when they cursed Jesus and wanted him dead 2000 years ago. It is ironic--isn't it. We are capturing a moment on the Files where the "Pharasee Filers" attack a "Christian Man" for rightly bringing "Truth" about the most evil Man Made Institution on earth--the Roman Catholic Church. Yellowhand defending this Institution as a Jew is most "Ironic", almost laughable. This is a "Teachable Moment" for you guys. You want to "crucify" me as your enemy, while your real enemy is right in front of your face. Your blindness is stupifying As far as Notre Dame goes--it is Jim's, Pope Francis that helped bring the Muslim hoards into France that is to blame for the burning, but you fools are blind to that. All the Roman Catholic Institutions are going to burn when Jesus Christ returns to Rule anyway. 3 1/2 years of utter terror will soon be upon you and your families--you better get prepared both mentally and physically. Don't worry about me--I'm not going anywhere--Ill be hear to help you.

The future of posting this kind of debate is near the end. This is the Free Speech that the Constitution Guarantees as my Right. You also have the Right to ridicule, curse and cuss at what I write. That is the way it should be. But soon, it will not, and then you will know you have lost Your 1st Amendment Right. Talk, like what I write, will be a death sentence in the not too far future. I will take it to where God wants me to take it--I am not afraid of death, like so many of you are. You guys need to search your hearts and not your feelings. I still havn't seen any "truthful" rebuttals of facts that I presented in my previous post's--because there aren't any truthful rebuttals. Keep the slings and arrows coming--it only makes me more determined to watch you fail in your futile takedown!
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:04   #74
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Its not the religion that's evil but the men in it that use it for evil purposes. However a prime example of those without religion is the communist party. Commies murdered over a 100 million people to take control of Russia and China, not even the muzzies can boast so much murder in so short of a time.

Iran is making deals with the commies for weapons and support, ever wonder how the Mullahs justify to their people bringing the godless commies to Iran? Commies that have been killing muzzies in Czecknia for decades.
You are onto to something there BJ., one of course has to remember who funded both the Russian and Chinese communist revolutions, let alone hitler or even who co-opted most of the ME., let alone who Marx and Engles were and their affiliations - but then again that just upsets people and their heads tend to explode!
Currently Russia is not communist, and China is an oligarchy pretending to be communist - then there's the American communists, the Frankfurt school, and a litany of other organs, all trying to bugger the good sense out of what should be reasonable men!

A surname tells one a lot about a person - even when, if not especially - when they change their name to hide their root!
It is even possible to dig into the history of Protestantism - protestors, but who really were the protestors - and what were their real names? This an easy search - if you care!
I will say people do hate, when the 'book' is thrown back at them - comprehension, has always been the issue - especially when reason is relinquished. Great post, by the way Heisser Mann!

JM, research the history of the Roman Catholic Church - especially what preceded it, prior to its co-option by the same mindset that funded communism, hitler and the inquisition etc.... Again standing on street corners and professing - is exactly what JC didn't approve of - his Church did not need walls, his was universal!
It's called the Roman Catholic Church - because it was co-opted. Now real Catholics are fine, it's the Romanised Catholics that you are concerned with - the rulers! Religion is only there to sanctify the rulers - only! Hearts and minds/you are either with me or against me - unless you are the Edge !
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -- Krishnamurti

Last edited by Trypcil; April 16, 2019 at 11:16.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:06   #75
yellowhand
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Originally Posted by JM View Post
I am here because, you are , or most of you are unsaved men. I study all of you carefully. There may be a few Born Again Christians on this sight but they will remain silent for fear of your ridicule. I find it exhilarating! It does not bother me in the least as long as I get the message out that I was sent to deliver. Jim's fury and curse directed at me for demeaning his man made Institution is the same type of fury and hatred the Pharisee's(Jews-Yellowhand) had when they cursed Jesus and wanted him dead 2000 years ago. It is ironic--isn't it. We are capturing a moment on the Files where the "Pharasee Filers" attack a "Christian Man" for rightly bringing "Truth" about the most evil Man Made Institution on earth--the Roman Catholic Church. Yellowhand defending this Institution as a Jew is most "Ironic", almost laughable. This is a "Teachable Moment" for you guys. You want to "crucify" me as your enemy, while your real enemy is right in front of your face. Your blindness is stupifying As far as Notre Dame goes--it is Jim's, Pope Francis that helped bring the Muslim hoards into France that is to blame for the burning, but you fools are blind to that. All the Roman Catholic Institutions are going to burn when Jesus Christ returns to Rule anyway. 3 1/2 years of utter terror will soon be upon you and your families--you better get prepared both mentally and physically. Don't worry about me--I'm not going anywhere--Ill be hear to help you.

The future of posting this kind of debate is near the end. This is the Free Speech that the Constitution Guarantees as my Right. You also have the Right to ridicule, curse and cuss at what I write. That is the way it should be. But soon, it will not, and then you will know you have lost Your 1st Amendment Right. Talk, like what I write, will be a death sentence in the not too far future. I will take it to where God wants me to take it--I am not afraid of death, like so many of you are. You guys need to search your hearts and not your feelings. I still havn't seen any "truthful" rebuttals of facts that I presented in my previous post's--because there aren't any truthful rebuttals. Keep the slings and arrows coming--it only makes me more determined to watch you fail in your futile takedown!


Your opinions, which are your opinions, are real close to those that over the course of history, have quickly jumped to, either "save" folks(as you see it being done) or to murder them to save them from themselves.

Your free speech rights are fully protected, not your right to have others fall to the ground and bow to your opinions.

You believe as you wish, but,,,,,,trying to force feed others your opinions, is coming across as rude dogma and again, paints all people of faith as lunatics, and or garden variety loons.

Btw, everyone else here has full freedom of speech, and also,,,,,,,,news flash,,,,freedom to believe as we see fit...
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:13   #76
Heisser Mann
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Originally Posted by JM View Post
I am here because, you are , or most of you are unsaved men. I study all of you carefully. There may be a few Born Again Christians on this sight but they will remain silent for fear of your ridicule. I find it exhilarating! It does not bother me in the least as long as I get the message out that I was sent to deliver. Jim's fury and curse directed at me for demeaning his man made Institution is the same type of fury and hatred the Pharisee's(Jews-Yellowhand) had when they cursed Jesus and wanted him dead 2000 years ago. It is ironic--isn't it. We are capturing a moment on the Files where the "Pharasee Filers" attack a "Christian Man" for rightly bringing "Truth" about the most evil Man Made Institution on earth--the Roman Catholic Church. Yellowhand defending this Institution as a Jew is most "Ironic", almost laughable. This is a "Teachable Moment" for you guys. You want to "crucify" me as your enemy, while your real enemy is right in front of your face. Your blindness is stupifying As far as Notre Dame goes--it is Jim's, Pope Francis that helped bring the Muslim hoards into France that is to blame for the burning, but you fools are blind to that. All the Roman Catholic Institutions are going to burn when Jesus Christ returns to Rule anyway. 3 1/2 years of utter terror will soon be upon you and your families--you better get prepared both mentally and physically. Don't worry about me--I'm not going anywhere--Ill be hear to help you.

The future of posting this kind of debate is near the end. This is the Free Speech that the Constitution Guarantees as my Right. You also have the Right to ridicule, curse and cuss at what I write. That is the way it should be. But soon, it will not, and then you will know you have lost Your 1st Amendment Right. Talk, like what I write, will be a death sentence in the not too far future. I will take it to where God wants me to take it--I am not afraid of death, like so many of you are. You guys need to search your hearts and not your feelings. I still havn't seen any "truthful" rebuttals of facts that I presented in my previous post's--because there aren't any truthful rebuttals. Keep the slings and arrows coming--it only makes me more determined to watch you fail in your futile takedown!
You are free to say what you want----as others are. If you cant handle that freedom, if it's a burden, sorry. I posted response to your claims levied against catholics and the church. I'd suggest you read that, pray over it and get ready to question your own bias's.
As you, I enjoy a debate. I enjoy also knowing I am correct.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:18   #77
Bawana jim
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You are onto to something there BJ., one of course has to remember who funded both the Russian and Chinese communist revolutions, let alone hitler or even who co-opted most of the ME., let alone who Marx and Engles were and their affiliations - but then again that just upsets people and their heads tend to explode!
Currently Russia is not communist, and China is an oligarchy pretending to be communist - then there's the American communists, the Frankfurt school, and a litany of other organs or trying to bugger the good sense out of what should be reasonable men!
A surname tells one a lot about a person - even when, if not especially - when they change their name to hide their root!
It is even possible to dig into the history of Protestantism - protestors, but who really were the protestors - and what were their real names? This an easy search - if you care!
I will say people do hate, when the 'book' is thrown back at them - comprehension, has always been the issue - especially when reason is relinquished. Great post, by the way Heisser Mann!
Its just opinion but what I think you miss is human nature when it comes to power. You point out who funded evil but what was the goal they wanted to achieve for the money spent? Did they realize the evil that would be spawned from that money or were they paying protection money?

Plus you might want to back up your opinions on Russia and China not being commie states, it's said China still kills more of its own by execution than any country in the world. That is an iron hand of commies, murder under the laws. However if you really think about communism and Islam they both are pretty near the same and that why Iran turns to commies for arms.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:19   #78
JM
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Baptism...

Baptism: A Sacrament by which a person is cleansed of all sin, by water, and by the Word of GOD.
In Baptism sin goes out and GOD comes in.
"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit...,
and the door which gives access to the other sacraments." CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) 1213.
In Baptism, we become the sons and daughters of GOD.


Typology of Baptism, prefigurements from the Old Testament...
The Lord said to Moses, "Take the Levites from among the Israelites and purify them. This is what you shall do to them to purify them. Sprinkle them with the water of remission then have them shave their whole bodies and wash their clothes, and so purify themselves."
Numbers 8:5-6

"Any unclean man who fails to have himself purified shall be cut off from the community, because he defiles the sanctuary of the Lord. As long as the lustral water has not been splashed over him, he remains unclean. This shall be a perpetual ordinance for you." Num 19:20-21

"Sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed; wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow ."
Psalms 51:9

"Wash your heart from wickedness, O Jerusalem, that you may be saved."
Jeremiah 4:14

"For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries, and I will bring you into your own land. And I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols. And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh. And I will put My Spirit in the midst of you, and I will cause you to walk in My Commandments, and to keep My judgments and to do them." Ezek 36:24-27

"...And I will save them out of all the places in which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them, and they shall be My people, and I will be their GOD."
Ezekiel 37:23

"In that day there shall be a fountain open to the house of David, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem; for the washing of the sinner, and of the unclean woman."
Zechariah 13:1


The first mention of Baptism in the New Testament is in the story of John the Baptist...

"...and they were Baptized by him in the Jordan."
Matthew 3:6

However, the Baptism by St. John was not yet a Christian Baptism, which began with Jesus Baptizing His disciples in John 3:22, and for all after the Resurrection of Christ. St John's was a Baptism of repentance.

"I indeed baptize you with water, for repentance. But He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to bear. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire."
Matthew 3:11

"If anyone thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture says, From within Him there shall flow rivers of living water." He said this, however, of the Spirit whom they who believed in Him were to receive; FOR THE SPIRIT HAD NOT YET BEEN GIVEN, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET BEEN GLORIFIED.
John 7:37-39

And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?" But they said to him, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "How then were you baptized?" They said, "With John's baptism." Then Paul said, "John baptized the people with a baptism of repentance, telling them to believe in Him who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus;"
Acts 19:2-5


What Church Fathers had to say about the Baptism by St. John...

"Even the Lord Himself said that unless He first ascended to the Father, the Spirit would not otherwise descend (John 16:7). Thus, what the Lord was not yet conferring, certainly the servant was not able to supply. Accordingly, we find afterwards in the Acts of the Apostles that those who had the Baptism of John had not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:1-5)."
Tertullian, Baptism, 10:4

"Know then, my beloved, that the Baptism of John was of no value for the forgiveness of sins, but for repentance."
Aphraates, Treatises, 12:10

"I ask then, if the Baptism of John remitted sins, what more could the Baptism of Christ do for those whom the Apostle Paul wanted to be baptized with the Baptism of Christ after they had received the Baptism of John? (Acts 19:4-5)"
St. Augustine, Baptism, 5:10:12

"...but those of whom John baptized, were they not baptized again?"
St. Augustine, Homilies on John, 5:18


It is to be noted that the same holds true for the Baptisms given by the Apostles also before the resurrection. It was not until Acts 2:3-4, when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, that they were able to perform the Baptism of Christ.
"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be witnesses for Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and even to the very ends of the earth."
Acts 1:8.
"And there appeared to them parted tongues as of fire, which settled upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in foreign tongues, even as the Holy Spirit prompted them to speak."
Acts 2:3-4.

Soon after the descent of the Holy Spirit, the Apostles began Baptizing the people...

"But Peter said to them, 'Repent and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'."
Acts 2:38

"Now they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand."
Acts 2:41.

"And now why do you delay? Get up and be Baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name."
Acts 22:16


Where is the authorization for Baptism?

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Matthew 28:19

Q. Who can Baptize?
A. Anyone who has the right intention to do what the Church does and has the use of reason.

Q. Who can be Baptized?
A. Anyone who has not been Baptized and who has the right intention. Anyone can be Baptized conditionally if there is doubt.

Q. What is the proper way to Baptize?
A. "The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
The Catechism of the Catholic Church...CCC-1278


Questions I have received regarding Baptism. My answers follow.

Baptism by immersion, I believe, is the only valid Baptism. After all, the very word Baptism, is taken from the Greek word 'baptizo' which means 'to dip'. Why doesn't the Catholic Church Baptize by immersion?

Yes you are right that the Greek word 'baptizo' (also 'baptisma', and 'baptismos' for baptism) means to dip. However, it also means to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to MAKE CLEAN WITH WATER, to wash ones self, or to bathe. If you wish to use the word 'dip' as the only meaning of baptism, then to 'dip' ones hand or foot in the water would be correct also. Is the purpose of Baptism to clean our bodies by immersion, or to 'make clean' our souls and make them pleasing to GOD, by the removal of original sin?
The Catholic Church does Baptize by immersion when requested, see CCC-1278.
Not all Catholic Churches have the facilities to Baptize by immersion, so you might have to go to a Church which does.
Now, why do you ask this? Is it because Jesus Christ was Baptized by immersion? If so, then I will have to say, He was crucified too before He arose into heaven. Does that mean we have to be crucified also before we can enter heaven?
Show me in the Bible where every time a Baptism was performed, it was said it was done by immersion? Show me where Jesus Christ was immersed? Scripture says He came up from the water, Matt 3:16, Mark 1:10. It does not say He was immersed. Throughout Scripture it says Baptize with water. Never does it say Baptize immersed in water. Jesus Christ said in John 3:5, "...unless a man be born again of water..." Again He did not say, 'born again Immersed in water'.
John 13:6-10, "He came, then, to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, "Lord do you wash my feet?" (7) Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you know not now; but you shall know hereafter." (8) Peter said to Him, "You shall never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you shall have no part with Me." (9) Simon Peter said to Him, "LORD, NOT MY FEET ONLY, BUT ALSO MY HANDS AND MY HEAD!" (10) JESUS SAID TO HIM, "HE WHO HAS BATHED NEEDS ONLY TO WASH, AND HE IS CLEAN ALL OVER. And you are clean, but not all.""
Verse 8 makes it clear that Jesus is talking about Baptism. Verse 10 makes it clear that the whole body does not have to be washed to make it clean. It is obvious that He is not talking of a cleansing of the body, but of the soul, thus making baptismal immersion not mandatory.

Go back and read Ezekiel 36:25 again. The Old Testament "type" of Baptism was by pouring or sprinkling.

The "Didache" is a genuine historical document which contains the teachings of the Apostles.
Here is how they performed early Baptisms...

DIDACHE CHAPTER 7:
7:1 But concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: having first recited all these precepts, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water;
7:2 but if thou hast not running water, baptize in some other water, and if thou canst not baptize in cold, in warm water;
7:3 but if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
7:4 But before the baptism, let him who baptizeth and him who is baptized fast previously, and any others who may be able. And thou shalt command him who is baptized to fast one or two days before.

Notice that the Apostles made no mention of "Baptism by Immersion" in this document..


Q. The Catholic Church Baptizes infants. Show me the Biblical authority to do this?

A. Where does it say in Holy Scripture, "Do not Baptize infants"? Show me the Biblical authority NOT to Baptize infants?

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 28:19, "GO, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit..."
He did not say adults only did he? Did he ever put an age limit to receive Baptism?

Acts 22:16, "and now WHY DO YOU DELAY? Get up and be Baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."
So why do you delay in Baptizing your children?

Acts 2:38, But Peter said to them, "Repent and be Baptized every one of you..."
I would say that verse would include everyone, including infants and children of all ages. Peter did not say to leave your infants at home.

Acts 16:15, "And when she and her household had been Baptized..."
Did her household have infants maybe? Did Luke say "everyone in her household except infants"?

Acts 16:33, "And he took them at that very hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he and ALL his family were baptized immediately."
Again, were infants excepted here?

1Corinthians 1:16, "I Baptized also the household of Stephanas..."
Did Paul say "everyone except infants"?

Luke 3:21, "Now it came to pass when all the people had been baptized..."
Aren't infants part of "all the people"?

For those who deny infant baptism, the burden of proof is upon you to show that in all of the verses listed above there were no infants in all of those households and families.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19:14, "Let the little children be, and do not hinder them from coming to me."
He also said in John 3:5, "...unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD."
How are they to come to Him unless they are Baptized?
Those who say not to Baptize infants clearly have a Biblical conflict here, and they risk the salvation of the souls of their children.

The baptism of the New Testament makes a man a Christian, and baptism saves,
Acts 2:38, Romans 6:4, 1Peter 3:21.
The "type" of baptism in the Old Testament was circumcision, which made a man a Jew,
Genesis 17:10-14.
Circumcision had to be done early in life, on the eighth day of birth.
"He that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations..."
Genesis 17:12
Eight days old and every male, certainly does include infants, does it not?
I must ask: Since circumcision of infants was so important for the GOD of the Old Testament,
why then are children excluded from Baptism by some in the New Testament?

"When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him as GOD had commanded him."
Genesis 21:4

"And when eight days were fulfilled for his circumcision, his name was called Jesus..."
Luke 2:21

Where in the Old Testament does it say not to circumcise infants?

Once again, where does it say in the New Testament not to baptize infants?

One final note regarding infant baptism:

Infant baptism in the Catholic Church is just about the strongest demonstration of salvation without works that there could possibly be.
The infant can do nothing, nor does the infant need to do anything, in order to be "saved". The church freely supplies all that's necessary, including the water, the faith, and the grace, while the infant truly becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit, an adopted child of God, a member of the Church, and co-heir with Jesus Christ ... simply because God desires all to be saved.
The Catholic sacrament of Confirmation later allows each person to make the declaration of faith that was made for them at baptism.
Heisser Mann is a deceived Roman Catholic and can thro out a whole "lotta" scripture but it is meaningless when it comes to Infant Baptism. Infant Baptism is not in the Bible,(It is not in the Holy Bible, Heisser Mann) it is just another Catholic "addition" they practice along with Mary worship, praying to dead saint's and statues. The infant cannot make public profession of faith in Jesus Christ nor does the infant have any ability to repent and trust Christ as Savior. An infant is not at the age of accountability. Infant baptism is just another heretical practice of the Roman Catholic Church.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:27   #79
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Your opinions, which are your opinions, are real close to those that over the course of history, have quickly jumped to, either "save" folks(as you see it being done) or to murder them to save them from themselves.

Your free speech rights are fully protected, not your right to have others fall to the ground and bow to your opinions.

You believe as you wish, but,,,,,,trying to force feed others your opinions, is coming across as rude dogma and again, paints all people of faith as lunatics, and or garden variety loons.

Btw, everyone else here has full freedom of speech, and also,,,,,,,,news flash,,,,freedom to believe as we see fit...
Where have I forced my opinion? You feel forced because an unpleasant truth rocks your world and makes you think in a way that you don't like. You write like I grabbed you and forced you to eat your pudding Don't worry yellow--I got plenty more good stuff for you
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:39   #80
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Curse you dude for the lies you spread, may God give you what you deserve for your evil, vile hatred you spread. It's guys like you that get our churches burnt down with your evil talk. That's all I will ever say to you.
Here is another post that stands out in a crowd from a professed Roman Catholic (huh) Christian. See--I can bring stuff back-- to convict

You gotta be careful there Jim! Don't forget--I was born on Friday the 13th to a 33rd degree Mason and a Jewish mother. They are buried at Masonic Block 13 in a local cemetery. Anybody that has done bad things to me in my life has always ended badly for them in many ways! Including my mother and father.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:47   #81
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This is fun--but I gotta go do some hard physical labor. I should conjur up RiversideSports to take over for awhile. He's a sure thing to insult your fragile intelligence! LOL
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:54   #82
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You are free to say what you want----as others are. If you cant handle that freedom, if it's a burden, sorry. I posted response to your claims levied against catholics and the church. I'd suggest you read that, pray over it and get ready to question your own bias's.
As you, I enjoy a debate. I enjoy also knowing I am correct.
People are resistant to truth when they have so much invested in lies. It takes a Paul on the road to Damascus moment but that won't happen unless god finds them as worthy as Paul was to receive truth. JM would fit right in with a Jim Jones cult with his prophecy of doom and misses the point that God is about life.

One last point and I will let you get back to your business at hand. You can post all the scripture you want but it won't matter because the mind of the reader isn't receptive to what they read.If you question folks then they turn to the canned answer given to them by their leaders. I take one shot at bringing sense to them and it's the simple truth that God can not lie. That means that every religion that broke away or started new is calling god a liar. God made his promise and if he lied then he wouldn't be god.
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Old April 16, 2019, 13:13   #83
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Heisser Mann is a deceived Roman Catholic and can thro out a whole "lotta" scripture but it is meaningless when it comes to Infant Baptism. Infant Baptism is not in the Bible,(It is not in the Holy Bible, Heisser Mann) it is just another Catholic "addition" they practice along with Mary worship, praying to dead saint's and statues. The infant cannot make public profession of faith in Jesus Christ nor does the infant have any ability to repent and trust Christ as Savior. An infant is not at the age of accountability. Infant baptism is just another heretical practice of the Roman Catholic Church.
I take it you didn't read the lengthy, footnoted response. Obviously you and your adherents know more about baptism than the early christians. Sadly, you cannot travel back in time and set them right.
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Old April 16, 2019, 13:30   #84
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Human nature is a phenomena of culture - BJ, or at least as it is manifest. Powerful people will find themselves in powerful positions - what they do there, is a consequence of a complexity of their cultural roots and allegiances.
Most humans just want to live in Peace, until someone comes along and says otherwise - it's a recurring anomaly! Usually about theft of something or other.
As to any purpose - it's about legacy, always has been. Very few rulers actually do the fighting now - they get willing social climbers, and grunts to do that for them, fighting for position and legacy - and the spoils.

China is home to a huge number of billionaires = oligarchy clue.
Russia - its recent history.
Killing your own People, isn't exclusive of communism - tyranny perhaps.

Basically evil is described by powerful people, so that the ordinary folk come into line - freeing the ruler to do as they wish with impunity. Hell on Earth is the only thing one has to be concerned with - not the imaginary hell afterwards - it's about as valid as 72 virgins for doing Allahs wishes.( what do the muslim women get? - 72 lesbians)

But then again History is a lie perp'd by the victors - their truth become religion. Undermining their History, is a threat to their truth - knowledge therefore is power, or a burden.

Iran turns to Russia because the globalist cabal under instruction, just wants to kill it. The enemy of your enemy, is your friend.
History tells you why Iran is an enemy, it is dark black and very crude in essence - certainly in recent years. Though if you study the root of Islam, you might also understand further - also study the evolution of Wahhabism for clues, as to what that actually is.

Truth usually flies in the face of belief, as it is also the enemy of the state - whether separation of church and state ever exists, there will always be an underlying ideology behind the state - a human nature.
Belief, is required by the state - armies are missionaries, as it were - believe, or die in some pit of hell - bringing democracy to people who don't want it - isn't democratic.
You can get into the Crusades as well - the ME never forgets, that is important.
Communist ideas exist but the practice of it, simply doesn't - it cannot, as yes - it does require force.
But Communism really is Collectivism - a Pyramid scheme.
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Old April 16, 2019, 13:53   #85
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No offense but you are lost in your own rambling of the way you see human nature. There are lots of cultures but man is the same in all of them. His choices may come from what the culture offers but other than true needs that he must have to survive those choices are pretty much the same. Right or wrong, self or selfless, lazy or ambitious, foundation or folly.

I was hoping you had some insight into China and Russia but from your post it's obvious you read just the same as I do but your take is different.
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Old April 16, 2019, 13:56   #86
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What religion is God?

Is he Babylonian? Bhuddist?
Tiger Woods is a Bhuddist.

Hindu? Jewish? Christian? Protestant?

What is in your head, and your heart, determines your spiritual worth in life, and God's destiny for you, tests you, based upon what you do and have done.

God sorts out murder in war and in civilian life, same as looting and theft, conspiracy, lies by Religious leaders Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Jewish, etc............

God is not limited by frocked up child molestors churches, fake rules, and Christ would not recognize the churches of wealth and corruption today, that evolved out of what Emperor Constantine built out of chaos, in 325 Ad.

Constantine, not Peter, is the father of the Catholic Church. Peter died "crunchy", as he was eaten by lions, same as Paul. Constantine set it all up and legitimized it as the Emperor of the Roman Empire in 312 Ad. He allowed it to be built, and organized by his rules after 325 ad.

Later on, after Emperor Justinian and the fall of the Roman Empire and the birth of Islam, it got worse; the Vatican was built on the slavery of millions of slaves and the dead, from 500ad onward, and every lick of gold there is blood gold and unholy blasphemy, as it was taken by the sword and whip.

Islam is nothing but a shithouse on wheels, built on murder, the same as Catholicism.


God has no religion, but the code of conduct of morality, truth, ethics and courage, as the ancient ways tell us.


No MAN ought to be concerned about so called forgiveness by Jesus or God or Bhudda.......... and he should stand on his merits and actions, and be a man about it.

If he is concerned, then he should be concerned, very concerned. God is in the "rope business", and makes sure everyone has plenty of rope with which to hang himself.
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Old April 16, 2019, 14:06   #87
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What religion is God?

Is he Babylonian? Bhuddist?
Tiger Woods is a Bhuddist.

Hindu? Jewish? Christian? Protestant?

What is in your head, and your heart, determines your spiritual worth in life, and God's destiny for you, tests you, based upon what you do and have done.

God sorts out murder in war and in civilian life, same as looting and theft, conspiracy, lies by Religious leaders Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Jewish, etc............

God is not limited by frocked up child molestors churches, fake rules, and Christ would not recognize the churches of wealth and corruption today, that evolved out of what Emperor Constantine built out of chaos, in 325 Ad.

Constantine, not Peter, is the father of the Catholic Church. Peter died "crunchy", as he was eaten by lions, same as Paul. Constantine set it all up and legitimized it as the Emperor of the Roman Empire in 312 Ad. He allowed it to be built, and organized by his rules after 325 ad.

Later on, after Emperor Justinian and the fall of the Roman Empire and the birth of Islam, it got worse; the Vatican was built on the slavery of millions of slaves and the dead, from 500ad onward, and every lick of gold there is blood gold and unholy blasphemy, as it was taken by the sword and whip.

Islam is nothing but a shithouse on wheels, built on murder, the same as Catholicism.


God has no religion, but the code of conduct of morality, truth, ethics and courage, as the ancient ways tell us.


No MAN ought to be concerned about so called forgiveness by Jesus or God or Bhudda.......... and he should stand on his merits and actions, and be a man about it.

If he is concerned, then he should be concerned, very concerned. God is in the "rope business", and makes sure everyone has plenty of rope with which to hang himself.
I can't help you at all but I will offer you an opinion. If you look at the world with common sense then normally the answers come to you. A man might have to educate himself a bit, seek and you will find, but in the end your questions get answered. A good start would be simply ask yourself about the religion you look at, is it man telling you who God is or is it god telling you who he is? Odds are if it's man telling you who God is then it's not true.
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Old April 16, 2019, 14:23   #88
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I take it you didn't read the lengthy, footnoted response. Obviously you and your adherents know more about baptism than the early christians. Sadly, you cannot travel back in time and set them right.
No--you mistake the symbolism of being born again as a real change of heart in a mans soul. Many people go thru the ritual of sprinkling water and being immersed in water but many are never born again.
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Old April 16, 2019, 15:14   #89
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What is it like to know you are saved and Born Again from what Jesus spoke of. I can give you my experience but most have a different experience unlike mine which was close to death. I had always known God existed and grew up in a very strict religious family, but knew there was something wrong. I was the "whipping boy" and would be beaten black and blue with a oak stick until my teens when I could defend myself. I went to college for a couple years and joined the Navy in 1974 and married my wife of 43 years in 1976. Less than a year after we were married I had a bad accident while deployed overseas. I had acquired malaria and had been bed ridden for about 10 days when I got up to water my horse and woke up in a hospital bed, a day later. I couldn't move, I couldn't talk and the pain was beyond torture. I overheard the Dr. tell the attendants that it didn't look good and he might not make it. They thought I was out but I was fully coherent of my situation. I had passed out and fallen straight back to the concrete bathroom floor. A guy that was in the bathroom at the time said my head bounced off the concrete floor like a basketball. Here I was--newly married to a beautiful young wife--couldn't move a muscle, couldn't talk and the extreme pain was racking my body. The Dr. didn't give any pain medicine because of the head injury and all I could do was cry! On top of that I was still having the chills and fevers from malaria. The Dr. had a Halo installed on my head and the pain went from terrible to worse. The screws that held the Halo would soon become like hot nails burning into my brain in seemed. I wanted to die and called out for God to end it. I pleaded to God I would follow him if He would save me from this nightmare. A couple days later my lips felt a strange sensation and I could soon talk to my nurse, but my body was lifeless and still wanted death, not wanting my wife to be burdened by a paraplegic. The pain was still intense but I learned to use my brain to cancel it out somewhat. The nurse would always greet me in the morning by touching my feet and after 8 or so days in my lifeless condition, I felt her touch, and it was a happy day for both of us I tell you. I slowly recovered until I could feel my whole body and was in therapy for quite some time after a month long stay in a hospital bed. My bodily feelings were very strange, I could rub my arm and feel it in my leg and vise versa, same with other parts of my body. Took almost a year to get it straightened out and I still get those strange feelings after all these years. I have had many close calls in my life but that one was my born again experience and have Jesus Christ in my soul forever. It did not take a man made institution or an immersion in water. It comes from God .
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Old April 16, 2019, 15:56   #90
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What is it like to know you are saved and Born Again from what Jesus spoke of. I can give you my experience but most have a different experience unlike mine which was close to death. I had always known God existed and grew up in a very strict religious family, but knew there was something wrong. I was the "whipping boy" and would be beaten black and blue with a oak stick until my teens when I could defend myself. I went to college for a couple years and joined the Navy in 1974 and married my wife of 43 years in 1976. Less than a year after we were married I had a bad accident while deployed overseas. I had acquired malaria and had been bed ridden for about 10 days when I got up to water my horse and woke up in a hospital bed, a day later. I couldn't move, I couldn't talk and the pain was beyond torture. I overheard the Dr. tell the attendants that it didn't look good and he might not make it. They thought I was out but I was fully coherent of my situation. I had passed out and fallen straight back to the concrete bathroom floor. A guy that was in the bathroom at the time said my head bounced off the concrete floor like a basketball. Here I was--newly married to a beautiful young wife--couldn't move a muscle, couldn't talk and the extreme pain was racking my body. The Dr. didn't give any pain medicine because of the head injury and all I could do was cry! On top of that I was still having the chills and fevers from malaria. The Dr. had a Halo installed on my head and the pain went from terrible to worse. The screws that held the Halo would soon become like hot nails burning into my brain in seemed. I wanted to die and called out for God to end it. I pleaded to God I would follow him if He would save me from this nightmare. A couple days later my lips felt a strange sensation and I could soon talk to my nurse, but my body was lifeless and still wanted death, not wanting my wife to be burdened by a paraplegic. The pain was still intense but I learned to use my brain to cancel it out somewhat. The nurse would always greet me in the morning by touching my feet and after 8 or so days in my lifeless condition, I felt her touch, and it was a happy day for both of us I tell you. I slowly recovered until I could feel my whole body and was in therapy for quite some time after a month long stay in a hospital bed. My bodily feelings were very strange, I could rub my arm and feel it in my leg and vise versa, same with other parts of my body. Took almost a year to get it straightened out and I still get those strange feelings after all these years. I have had many close calls in my life but that one was my born again experience and have Jesus Christ in my soul forever. It did not take a man made institution or an immersion in water. It comes from God .
I know not of this G-d you speak of
twice though I was saved from what have been death either by my own power of will or prayer of others, likely both.

I do not discount spiritual power, it exists
however no one group has exclusive domain over it in my opinion.
been clinically dead both in body and brain
survived fevers that should have indeed killed me as well
I continue to breathe mostly because as yet I have been unwilling to perish easily

Doctrine was I was saved for something special
don't know about all that
I have saved a number of folks, just maybe that was special enough to merit some extra level of personal worth.

I don't get very goofy on all this either
each of us are like stones cast into still water
we create ripples that effect all around us
it's a chain effect, a natural form of Human fusion
or perhaps just fission...

There is a thing not yet recognized by modern Science that I feel exists
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Old April 16, 2019, 16:04   #91
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No offense but you are lost in your own rambling of the way you see human nature. There are lots of cultures but man is the same in all of them. His choices may come from what the culture offers but other than true needs that he must have to survive those choices are pretty much the same. Right or wrong, self or selfless, lazy or ambitious, foundation or folly.

I was hoping you had some insight into China and Russia but from your post it's obvious you read just the same as I do but your take is different.
No offense taken - Any insight you require you have to find yourself, anything I say or link to, chances are won't be read, and refuted - I can only point you in the right direction. I would suggest that you are one of the lost, not I - as I haven't lost my way, I have found it.
Actually you are partially right, to say that a Caucasian, Negro, or Asian are the same - only through cultural assimilation is that complete, and it still takes generations. Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

You talk of choices - when you are bombed into a set of circumstances such that you have no home, you move away - the choice to bomb is based also on a choice - a given choice based on the belief that you're doing the right thing - The west's continual involvement in other people's business is also a choice - a preferred choice it seems - you have, as an individual a choice also, to think for yourself. Most don't, they believe what they are told, told and told again, and by rote it become gospel. Nodding dobbins with their scriptures!
Thinking hard, then building on those thoughts - and you might break from the herd, and actually garner a greater understanding and knowledge - or it's just a regurgitated dogma held in the void of the hollow man - who, has no choices but to adhere to that dogma, at all costs - so they believe.

I have posted a few times about Col. Samuel Cohen - the man that promoted Mao Zedong for the British.
I have posted many times also concerning the Russian revolution, and the players involved from the west.

Recently I also recently posted concerning who was behind Hitler's rise.
I have done that with many subjects - and been accused of posting uninteresting threads.
No offense meant! But you have to expand your horizons, cycling the same old rote diatribes - is not the route to wisdom. It is the search for new understandings - it's the search.
JM, needs to spend his 40 days and 40 nights in the Desert, as many others indeed need to - a classic, stuck in rote.
But it's all good, so far the Sun keeps rising!
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"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression... There is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we must be most aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court Justice from 1939-1975

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -- Krishnamurti
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Old April 16, 2019, 16:33   #92
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So, when did Iran attack us? Just askin'.
It really don't matter.

BTW A least 6-8 years ago I was saying they we will never be done in the Middle East until we pummel Syria and Iran. Naturally Iraq and Libya were pretty much done deals.
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Old April 16, 2019, 17:39   #93
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Yes it does!
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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression... There is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we must be most aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court Justice from 1939-1975

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -- Krishnamurti
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Old April 16, 2019, 18:07   #94
Tak
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It really don't matter.

BTW A least 6-8 years ago I was saying they we will never be done in the Middle East until we pummel Syria and Iran. Naturally Iraq and Libya were pretty much done deals.
As long as there is oil in the middle east, we won't be done with it. When the wells run dry, we'll be outta there.
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Old April 16, 2019, 18:36   #95
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No offense taken - Any insight you require you have to find yourself, anything I say or link to, chances are won't be read, and refuted - I can only point you in the right direction. I would suggest that you are one of the lost, not I - as I haven't lost my way, I have found it.
Actually you are partially right, to say that a Caucasian, Negro, or Asian are the same - only through cultural assimilation is that complete, and it still takes generations. Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

You talk of choices - when you are bombed into a set of circumstances such that you have no home, you move away - the choice to bomb is based also on a choice - a given choice based on the belief that you're doing the right thing - The west's continual involvement in other people's business is also a choice - a preferred choice it seems - you have, as an individual a choice also, to think for yourself. Most don't, they believe what they are told, told and told again, and by rote it become gospel. Nodding dobbins with their scriptures!
Thinking hard, then building on those thoughts - and you might break from the herd, and actually garner a greater understanding and knowledge - or it's just a regurgitated dogma held in the void of the hollow man - who, has no choices but to adhere to that dogma, at all costs - so they believe.

I have posted a few times about Col. Samuel Cohen - the man that promoted Mao Zedong for the British.
I have posted many times also concerning the Russian revolution, and the players involved from the west.

Recently I also recently posted concerning who was behind Hitler's rise.
I have done that with many subjects - and been accused of posting uninteresting threads.
No offense meant! But you have to expand your horizons, cycling the same old rote diatribes - is not the route to wisdom. It is the search for new understandings - it's the search.
JM, needs to spend his 40 days and 40 nights in the Desert, as many others indeed need to - a classic, stuck in rote.
But it's all good, so far the Sun keeps rising!
I am not lost and it seems you call yourself a roadsign that tells the way, a way I don't choose to go. I do understand that real enlightenment has to be searched for and as a fellow traveler I thought you might have some insight or experience with Russia or China that was worth sharing. Like I said it seems you are just like me and just a reader of someone else's opinion on those countries.

My neighbors say all of us in the west have been lied to on religion. They are world travelers and don't believe a single thing any of our churches reach. Islam, the Jewish religion, Christianity or you name it they say none of it is true. It's funny you say to expand my horizons, do you know anything about the religious people of India? Maybe in my quest for my relationship with God I did look real hard before I committed to one religion.

Maybe folks are not as dumb as you think, one thing for certain is we won't see each other at the end of the road.
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Old April 16, 2019, 19:45   #96
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And all this started with the Trump administration designating a branch of Iran's military as a foreign terrorist organization

Mike Pompeo said 'the Trump administration is simply recognizing a basic reality".

There may not be any more to it.
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Old April 16, 2019, 20:51   #97
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[QUOTE=Riversidesports;4725918]I know not of this G-d you speak of
twice though I was saved from what have been death either by my own power of will or prayer of others, likely both.

From my previous post I joked about "conjuring up" Riversidesports because you are excellent in verbal confrontations LOL. I was not inferring to your faith or lack of faith. You have great company in not knowing God--the vast majority of Americans are just like you. Many important people claim they know God, such as Michael Savage, the Queer mayor running for President and even George Fricking Bush. If a person says they know God then they know Jesus Christ--He is God in the flesh. You are an honest man by your statement and they are lying. God says he knows us before we were born, so he knows us but the majority of Americans do not know Him. Not just America--the whole world is the same. This thread is about war and with war comes death. Even without war we all die sooner or later. Our soul is eternal because we are made in the Image of God--you say what does God look like? He looks like you and me only perfect in all ways, and like all humans we have our own look. Jesus Christ is God in His human form and died on a cross to take on every mans sin, but only those men that accept Him. No other man--no other Greek god--no Buddha--no Allah has a message like this and no book ever written has reached the magnitude of the Bible. I'm no better than you, Jim, yellowhand, Vguy and the whole lot here. I was very fortunate to have discovered the Truth and accepted it. Many will know the Truth but not accept it. It's FREE!
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Old April 16, 2019, 21:12   #98
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Where to start BJ - visited and worked in India many times, Thailand, Malaya.... even raised in Singapore, Japan.... - circumvented the World twice plus - not done Africa or S.Americas outside of the Caribbean - done most of that, & Mexico. Lived in France, Germany, Russia, America, UK, Ireland, NZ - visited most of Europe ..... anyway, yeah I've travelled a bit, seen some stuff been shot at, had friends blown up in Kislovodsk, been in a couple of ira car bomb incidents, flown in various military aircraft of various countries, was even apprehended as an ira suspect, been cornered by the barmy army and much other crazy stuff, sat with crazy Bulgarian mobsters and broke bread!!!! Even sat in Putin's old kgb office in Moscow, signed a few nda agreements, been closer to a few Shuttle launches and landings than most, and visited places most don't even know exist, here and abroad, even worked at Stalin's summer retreat, and drunk tea in temperatures from -60f temp to those temps of Death Valley.
Not that might give me any insight over the years, over another but it's taught me a few things, certainly shown me I am not either better or worse than anyone else on this planet - I actually rather like the People of this World, their gubments not so much!
And yes I get what your Asians friends say, yes we have been lied to - why do you think I am as obtuse as I am, and post what I do - I have had much input from foreign minds - some of it valid, some of it not! So I am not without Worldly experience, and I am not just book experienced either! I live for life, not death! So, there is a reason I am a Golden Rule-ist!(as I have professed many times) Have you read Krishnamurti, much?
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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression... There is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we must be most aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court Justice from 1939-1975

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -- Krishnamurti
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Old April 16, 2019, 21:15   #99
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Where to start BJ - visited and worked in India many times, Thailand, Malaya.... even raised in Singapore, Japan.... - circumvented the World twice plus - not done Africa or S.Americas outside of the Caribbean - done most of that, & Mexico. Lived in France, Germany, Russia, America, UK, Ireland, NZ - visited most of Europe ..... anyway, yeah I've travelled a bit, seen some stuff been shot at, had friends blown up in Kislovodsk, been in a couple of ira car bomb incidents, flown in various military aircraft of various countries, was even apprehended as an ira suspect, been cornered by the barmy army and much other crazy stuff, sat with crazy Bulgarian mobsters and broke bread!!!! Even sat in Putin's old kgb office in Moscow, signed a few nda agreements, been closer to a few Shuttle launches and landings than most, and visited places most don't even know exist, here and abroad, even worked at Stalin's summer retreat, and drunk tea in temperatures from -60f temp to those temps of Death Valley.
Not that might give me any insight over the years, over another but it's taught me a few things, certainly shown me I am not either better or worse than anyone else on this planet - I actually rather like the People of this World, their gubments not so much!
And yes I get what your Asians friends say, yes we have been lied to - why do you think I am as obtuse as I am, and post what I do - I have had much input from foreign minds - some of it valid, some of it not! So I am not without Worldly experience, and I am not just book experienced either! I live for life, not death! So, there is a reason I am a Golden Rule-ist!(as I have professed many times) Have you read Krishnamurti, much?
Yeah, but were you a Roads Scholar, digging in the dirt and laying blacktop.





.............juanni
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Old April 16, 2019, 22:24   #100
Riversidesports
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This is fun--but I gotta go do some hard physical labor. I should conjur up RiversideSports to take over for awhile. He's a sure thing to insult your fragile intelligence! LOL
Nope
I won't co-sign that check at all

Folks here can proclaim things me about but there's probabable agreement I don't shit call faiths or demonations generally
don't much care what you want to refer to yourself as
be that until you think you can impose your bullshit over mine as your moral seal.
I will plain slap you stupid at such point.

I don't have issues with faiths
it's all about assholes

Christian Assholes, Islamic Assholes, Hebrew Assholes, Hindu Assholes, just keeps pouring over the edge.
I don't react because of your faith. It's all about what you do imposing yours upon me
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