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Old April 15, 2019, 21:18   #51
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An OD green T-shirt, one go to hell hat, decent pair of boots, cigar, man can do far worst in a war setting.
Worked for Sgt. Rock. 'nuff said!
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Old April 15, 2019, 21:29   #52
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Some of you saw my recent video effort - some maybe not.

These plates are ~4.3 pounds each, which is half of what my Level IV ceramic plates weigh. They are "Level III+", and they stop M855 and other stuff.

They are neutrally buoyant, so they float/don't sink in water.

Did I mention that they are 4 pounds and stop M855 Greentip & M80 ball? Because OP started this thread on the topic of "Bugging Out". I agree that the heavy armor and the groin protectors and the other stuff is good if you are: a) standing still, and b) not going anywhere. I'm not sure about the "Bugging Out" part while wearing that stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYCakTtQ7I&t=13s
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Old April 16, 2019, 00:09   #53
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Worked for Sgt. Rock. 'nuff said!
Got to admit, got hard plates in a carrier now as well, but it has a large holder for cigars, so a good trade off in weight.
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Old April 16, 2019, 00:13   #54
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For "bugging out".

Might want some extra armor to hang around the back of the old truck seat, as well as a half dozen sand bags in the truck bed.

There's always that one asshole that wants to shoot someone dead off in their ass.
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Old April 18, 2019, 08:01   #55
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My truck has a pair of front opening tactical vests without plates for seat covers
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Old April 18, 2019, 09:36   #56
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I guess its really all about how bad you think it might get.
In a everyday situation with crime or an assault would you have time to get it on?
In a end of the world scenario where your house is being attacked by a group is when you would wear it Id reason. And even then, if your house is being engaged well your in trouble anyway since your vest does nothing against a molotov cocktail being thrown in a window.


Ive worn it before. But I really dont see purchasing and wearing any where Im at these days.
Besides if the end of the world starts tomorrow, and the SHTF I would want to be the gray man who has the ability to move freely rather than the guy dolled up in tac gear.
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Old April 18, 2019, 12:07   #57
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If you are gong to wear plates don't you also have to wear a ballistic helmet. I don't know much about what people are planning for that you require ballistic plates but if you are shooting it out with bad guys and using cover the only part that gets exposed consistently is your head. Imagine using a car for cover or a corner of a building. You are constantly sticking your head out to fire at the bad guys and your plate carrier is never extending beyond your cover.
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Old April 19, 2019, 00:11   #58
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I have kits from NIJ Level 2 covert to Level 2+ an NIJ 3a overt that run no plates. If had to go "on the run" during July/August wearing a full kit with Level 3a soft armor and rifle plates might die of heat stroke before anyone had a chance to shoot me. Common sense has to always be used an why wear Level 2+ with an 8"×10" flexible Protech Multithreat Dyneema plate front and 5.5"×11" NIJ 3a soft Kevlar over spine. Have the overt armor seat covers with velcro attachment panels can slap on accessories in a few seconds.

Seats with front entry armor for seat covers but still comfortable as no accessories or plates.



Behind console is a huge pile of magazine pouches, IFAK's, radio pouches and plates can slap on and slip in quickly if need more than covert armor. Below picture shows one velcro patch with mag pouch and IFAK'S slapped on and one patch open to add whatever may feel is most useful. Notice the straps with Fastech buckles can snap when have time to help ensure accessory does not pull loose from velcro.



Throw a vest over the seat so armor is not just staring at anyone who can see through my dark window tint.



This plate carrier is usually in passenger seat if don't have someone working with me and helmet is always in floorboard.



Have one of these racks that split in half for two six rifle locking racks instead of a single twelve rifle. One is bolted to wall next to headboard of bed in mine and wife's bedrooms. We leave rifles sitting all over the house but if both have to leave for most of a day we gather as many long rifles as can, stick in racks and lock them to slow a snatch and grab robbery with intent to be in, out and gone before the cops can dispatch.





Wife and I both had to go to Atlanta doctor and because I had outpatient surgery and she is in wheelchair had to get friend to drive us down, back and get us in house. When we got home I unlocked both racks and he dispersed the rifles to their locations per my instructions. A suppressed AR 10 with fifty round drum magazine and binary trigger got moved net to my recliner, 5.7×28 AR 15 put by wife's nest on sofa and so forth. Once all twelve rifles were dispersed and we were settled he headed on back home. Prepared to "bug-in", "bug-home" or "bug-out" need ability to be flexible based on situation at hand.

Because we were riding to Shepard Spinal Center in friends vehicle and can't wear armor in surgery carried a bag that has an overt vest for wife and I plus my armored briefcase with a pair of suppressed SIG 2022's. Friend always has a pistol or two and armor kit behind his back seat in cargo area. Just for good measure grabbed the 10.5" piston drive AR pistol in 6.8 that lived in wife's truck till she wrecked it. Not going to Atlanta and back unprepared for situation found myself when in Los Angeles during Rodney King riots and when get home prepping the house for an attempted home invasion before change into my pajamas. Just be prepared for whatever, whenever and where ever...
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Old April 24, 2019, 18:58   #59
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Important to not over think 'body armor' and make it something it is not. There is a line where you are protected from your most likely rounds and still somewhat comfortable. Artillery will still take you out of the fight...
Found this in my inbox the other day: https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/seve...out-body-armor
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Old April 25, 2019, 13:12   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PARA FN FAL View Post
If you are gong to wear plates don't you also have to wear a ballistic helmet. I don't know much about what people are planning for that you require ballistic plates but if you are shooting it out with bad guys and using cover the only part that gets exposed consistently is your head. Imagine using a car for cover or a corner of a building. You are constantly sticking your head out to fire at the bad guys and your plate carrier is never extending beyond your cover.
Depends on the threat environment, as well as climatic, logistic, and other considerations. I could wear a helmet with my PC out here in my semi-rural/rural environs, but a boonie, while offering only sun protection, still affords me better mobility by keeping me cooler, less neck fatigue, consuming less water, etc... A lack of armor could get you killed, but so can a lack of mobility. You need to decide on which is more important. If I was in a heavily urbanized area, you can bet your rear I'd have a helmet.
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Old May 08, 2019, 09:10   #61
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Been watching a "bullet proof" door on fleabay for seems like forever and seller keeps dropping price but it's local pickup only. Won't consider shipping and is in Bradford Connecticut if someone needs a burly door for $155 buy now. I have tried finding someone to pick up and ship to me with no luck so figured I would throw it to the hive as everyone needs bargain bullet resistant and force rated doors. It shows some odd cracking along bottom exterior and unsure how it's rated but the hardware it's in and locks/push bar could be sold them door scrapped for a profit.
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Old May 14, 2019, 02:19   #62
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Looks like you've hit one of those topics like folding vs fixed stock, camelbak vs canteen, etc. But with members residing everywhere from the beltway to BFE you're bound to get that. Stories abound of people only getting bruised ribs instead of more traumatic injuries because of body armor but there's also instances where even small caliber rounds have hit unprotected areas and killed the wearer. Ceramic does a much better job of dissipating energy than steel plates and the chance of spalling is much less.

If you decide to get milsurp IOTV or the older OTV you can get all the neat add on accessories (angel wings, side protector, groin, and neck protector, etc) and adapt it to whatever task is at hand. That being said the price of all those neat little add ons has more than doubled in the past 2 or 3 years and the government has really started putting pressure on sellers to remove the kevlar inserts before selling the vests and attachments (which would probably explain the price hike).

Personally for a couple hundred dollars I would rather have it and not need it than the opposite scenario. In the least it would make someone a less inviting target. Besides the heat and weight issues another drawback is that now that body armor is becoming more common some agencies are training people to aim for the unarmored areas like the hips to disable the shooter. But if you're getting it for a SHTF scenario your run of the mill mouth breathing SKS toting zombie won't put that much thought into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunop View Post
Some of you saw my recent video effort - some maybe not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYCakTtQ7I&t=13s
Good video that dispells alot of misinformation out there. But keeping company with someone who openly disparages FALs
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Old May 14, 2019, 02:46   #63
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If I'm running I don't want the weight! If I'm defending I can't get enough!


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Old May 15, 2019, 21:18   #64
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Ceramic does a much better job of dissipating energy than steel plates and the chance of spalling is much less.

If you decide to get milsurp IOTV or the older OTV you can get all the neat add on accessories (angel wings, side protector, groin, and neck protector, etc) and adapt it to whatever task is at hand. That being said the price of all those neat little add ons has more than doubled in the past 2 or 3 years and the government has really started putting pressure on sellers to remove the kevlar inserts before selling the vests and attachments (which would probably explain the price hike).

Personally for a couple hundred dollars I would rather have it and not need it than the opposite scenario. In the least it would make someone a less inviting target. Besides the heat and weight issues another drawback is that now that body armor is becoming more common some agencies are training people to aim for the unarmored areas like the hips to disable the shooter. But if you're getting it for a SHTF scenario your run of the mill mouth breathing SKS toting zombie won't put that much thought into it.
I have several different vests like these for wearing under armor if in a barracaided position like defending the Ponderosa. It's hot more of the year than cold and though able to run HVAC off the grid if event lasts Ling need to conserve fuel and not worry with HVAC. Most of mine are military issue for helicopter pilots so nice O.D. Green and very durable.



Having several size pumps with water reserves is imperative. Have one size of chest cooler and others that can wear on back or hip and circulates cool water under the vest. Have some long hoses so can sit a medium size pump near hide and have ten to twenty feet of movement in either direction without carrying weight of pump and water.





Groin/hip diaper type protector with standard groin flap type add on and rear sacrum protector add on.



Shipment of assorted vests being sorted into covert, overt, type and accessories.



Safariland plate backers. Allow air flow, pad plates and weigh mere ounces.





Super coverage Level 4 Brit desert kit.



USMC quick release level 3+ kit.



Shrapnel shorts fit better than most athletic underwear with shrapnel protection for groin and butt plus trauma pads for arteries that feed hips and thighs.



Can stack out a Level 4 kit with spare magazines radios, IFAK, plates, etc from 18 to 28 pounds based on how much wiling to wear and amount of coverage.

A pair of Level 4 plates. Hit that weight wit cheap crap.



This is a pair of Level 3+ plates, amazingly light. Not for sale to civilians either set but not hard to get.



Top left Stealth Armor strap panels. Stealth has the only flexible Level 4 lightweight armor I own. Gotta have accessories.

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Old May 22, 2019, 07:09   #65
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Originally Posted by PARA FN FAL View Post
If you are gong to wear plates don't you also have to wear a ballistic helmet. I don't know much about what people are planning for that you require ballistic plates but if you are shooting it out with bad guys and using cover the only part that gets exposed consistently is your head. Imagine using a car for cover or a corner of a building. You are constantly sticking your head out to fire at the bad guys and your plate carrier is never extending beyond your cover.
Yep, but people shoot through walls too my dude. Given that most buildings in the USA, even most log cabins, will see a .223 bullet go through them... Yeah I think I'm sticking with the body-armor school of thought.
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Old May 22, 2019, 15:55   #66
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Yep, but people shoot through walls too my dude. Given that most buildings in the USA, even most log cabins, will see a .223 bullet go through them... Yeah I think I'm sticking with the body-armor school of thought.
I see some fool sticking his head up, as you said in a common American home, or building, ain't shooting for his little head,,,placing three rounds where his chest should be though the material he "thinks" will provide cover.

Most folks don;t own armor anything.

Face off with a plt of Marines looking types, all looking like Rambo, up armored,,just a suggestion to one and all,,,run for your life.
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Old May 22, 2019, 15:57   #67
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This is from one power purchase when one of my vendors was overstocked on helmets.



After you buy them then have to start adding accessories.







Then need to realize most MICH helmets are only NIJ 3a rated without add on armor plates. Under the covers of four of our helmets have the add on applique that ups their rating to NIJ 3 to stop rifle if bullet strikes the velcro attached add on plates. Also have two helmets with NIJ 3a clear polycarbonate face shields.

A Velocity Systems SLAAP (Super Light Armor Applique Plate) plate pulled from their website, I am using a different system.





I found a deal on a pair of Gentex Ops Core SLAAP plates when first hit the market and are a tad tougher than the Velocity Systems. Remember when add SLAAP plates, face plate, mandible protection, etc helmet gets heavy and hot. For my needs this does not matter as each of our fully tricked out helmets sit at our primary armored shooting hides as have to look out through a ballistic window to shoot and a few M80A1 rounds will break down the viewing area for shooter before forced to move to uncompromised shooting position till its viewing area is tattered.

Armor is not magic. Have one entry suit that is NIJ 3a from head to feet with level 3 SLAAP panels on helmet, 11"×14" NIJ 4 plate in front of vest and 10.25"×12.25" NIJ plate in rear has a NIJ 3+ flexible groin protector plus 3+ thigh and shin protectors. Arms, knees, shoulders, sides, tops of boots and all areas that must articulate are only NIJ 3a. Cannot run in it as designed for a team to breach the door and first man in line to be shoved by guys behind him into the room and hopefully neutralize any threats before he takes a hit to a an area by round that exceeds it's protection level. Not as heavy as a blast suit for bomb techs though.

If want the ultimate mix in protection and comfort look at Stealth Armor Systems. Their stuff is not cheap but can buy a few of their accessories to harden up your kit without adding weight or ability to move quickly. Because they have best flexible rifle rated coverage, wife got one of their vests but I didn't.
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Old May 22, 2019, 17:45   #68
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Sounds like we've moved from Bug-Out to Shelter-in-Place...

I probably don't have to mention that these are two very different animals...

Forrest
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Old May 22, 2019, 21:57   #69
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'Bout sums it up.
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Old May 27, 2019, 01:05   #70
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Have already decided which trees are going to fall across road and where vehicles will be disbled to stop vehicular traffic. Have at least three neighbors either side of me that will be watching and potentially violent before threats get to the Ponderosa. String extends two miles north and we are surrounded three side by big water of 55,000 acre lake.



I get lots of steel plates (give $20 trade in credit on good plates) and use for targets/testing. If shoot someone three times in chest wearing steel the spall with have shreaded most of their face and groin.



Here were some mock ups before my tailor sewed them up. Nested a 5"×8" NIJ 3a trauma pad inside of knee pad then added a pair of groin protectors with velcro to attach to belt and an elastic strap to go around back of leg snugging the groin protector for use as a thigh protector. Facing forward and become handgun hurt from back face signature instead of bullet through thigh or knee from handgun. A lot of this is just spall protection for when working behind armored hides that stop up to threats like 50 BMG Raufoss.

Recently picked up a new line of window tint can add to storm windows, standard 1/4" shatterproof glass of any type or even automobile windows that stops 9mm handgun projectiles. Imagine a NIJ 2 storm window over another NIJ 2 dual pane glass window with NIJ 3a polycarbonate liner inside on almost every window or higher. Whenever my acrylic vendor gets a damaged or cut sheet drop I get it for cost. Add in scraps from work and over 30 years all of our high threat windows facing the street are NIJ 3+ to stop M80 Ball minimum.

Added shutters just a week ago that have been sitting waiting for install to a window with layer of 3/8" AR 500 steel with 3/4" redwood covering the steel and hidden port can open to fire through. Wife wanted the hard mount polycarbonate layer gone so able to open for fresh air on occasion. The storm window and main window are both still NIJ 2 and closed most times but if need flip shutter closed and 3/8" of AR 500 steel will stop a lot of bullet. I just worried about Light Fighting Rifles and Medium Battle Rifles to new neighbor a couple years ago decided to use a Remington 742 in 30-06 for home defense, snakes, ground hogs, anything. Realizing had a trigger happy neighbor whose main defensive firearm would punch all my NIJ 3 as 3+ armor found lots of lightweight NIJ 4 plates for our primary kits.

We have one room upstairs that has ballistic fiberglass instead of drywall and a bigger room in basement with concrete walls plus ballistic fiberglass for spall protection. Doors are all NIJ 4 rated with 20 minute forced entry rating under ballistic/hurricane rated storm doors. Have portable barricades that sit in closets on wheels can roll to different locations in house where may be needed. 30 years of screwing any scrap of ballistic material I scavenge somewhere has become an obsession. Bought two sets of the big bank branch drive through windows over winter and trying to decide where they will land. I want bug in to be like sitting in a bank vault.

I love to build something can't shoot through, come up with ammo that will defeat it and then a better barrier that defeats new projectile. M80A1 projectiles in 300 Win Mag are nasty vermin. Remember the first few series of Barnes copper solids the BATFE banned? I have many hundreds of them because of their penetration capabilities in magnum rifles. All we have to do is identify threats before they get close enough to over run or burn us out, choose proper hide and snipe them before they are in range to return fire. Sitting at table with 338 Lapua Mag on a Lead Sled behind a 50 BMG rated barrier will create a line of bodies 500 yards from house few will want to wade through is my plan. Remember you UHF, VHF and HF National Calling Frequencies. Call out in radio range and we may clear you a lane to the front door.
That is great!
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Old May 27, 2019, 10:27   #71
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