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Old October 11, 2018, 07:38   #1
fly2.0
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If you need a 2 stage AR trigger....

The LaRue MBT-2S has to be it. Was on sale for $99 before and now they dropped the price to $87 through Christmas. It was a great deal before. Now it is a no brainer imo. Just as nice as the Geissele SSA-E. Blind folded it would be hard to tell a difference.

If you are doing an AR build or want to upgrade your trigger to something nicer, get this. Seriously, you will thank me later.


https://www.larue.com/products/larue...bt-2s-trigger/

(Quote)

update ; Thanks GP ;
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Old October 11, 2018, 08:42   #2
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fixed link

https://www.larue.com/products/larue...bt-2s-trigger/
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Old October 11, 2018, 09:30   #3
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OUTSTANDING!!! Was highly considering pulling a pair of Rock River 2 Stage National Match triggers previously massaged from some AR's and replacing with some single stage massaged triggers to free the two stage up for current heavy barrel and high dollar barrel builds. Can leave everything as is and order up a few of these and sure if need a little massaging will get them doing as I like. Prices keep dropping on nice parts and I will never stop building.
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Old October 11, 2018, 09:49   #4
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I got one from the last sale they had, took a while though. It feels very similar to my RRA triggers, maybe less of a two stage, but good trigger overall. Managed to shoot my best 300 yard F stage with one last week, so maybe it helped..
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Old October 11, 2018, 11:38   #5
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Thanks Fly I'll have to keep them in mind I need a couple extra. I bought PSA's 2 stage they had on sale awhile back and it wasn't as smooth as the SSA-E but it was way cheaper so I wasn't surprised.


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Old October 11, 2018, 11:57   #6
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yep yep...been on this bus several times in the last 5 years.

TNT = top notch trigger
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Old October 11, 2018, 19:12   #7
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If anything similar to a Rock River two stage then should tune perfectly. I have such a huge collection of trigger, hammer and disconnector springs that with some honing, polish and fitting can make them do almost anything within reason. Put one in a recent build and was able to get it to a 1.1/1.2 pound first stage and second stage breaks clean at 1.0 pounds. It feels like cutting warm butter on the take up then a light snap of a glass rod on second stage and the hammer fall with enough force to light the primer but not put too much forward inerta into the rifle before the round lights and projectile clears bore. Why I now leave a little extra travel in the trigger rather than hitting the stop immediately.

Have been shooting my White Oak Armament 20" 1:8 HBar on SWAT Firearms billet receiver set and Geissele SSA-E with springs swapped for a 1.5 pound first stage (2.3 pound factory) and 1.1 pound second stage (1.2 pound factory) so that it's a total of 2.7 pound pull versus the 3.5 pound total pull of how it shipped. (None adjustable triggers they say) If start playing with swapping springs in a two stage trigger it's best to have a test jig or will drive your nuts installing and removing the trigger looking for the weight pull desired and risk scuffing finish of lower or bending a spring in the process. It's also real easy to stack up a spring choice that will slam fire or not light hard primers so do a lot of aggressive safety and reliability checks.


Off Topic Warning
I build more rifles in pairs than singles and honestly till recently this HBar build has been sitting in the vault, except for initial post build function test, site in and muzzle velocity measurement it's just been a vault queen for a couple years. Pulled it out last week and it's been the passenger seat rifle for eight days now, made a trip to the range with it, shot a few ground hogs and two coyote with it and am generally liking it. Found another matched O.D. Green SWAT Firearms billet receiver set and bought another matched set in FDE. The FDE am waffling on how to build but want to use the O.D. Green set to build at least a fraternal twin to the current HBar.

Google "5.56 Wylde 20" HBar barrel for sale" and ran down about two dozen links leading to $69 to $139 barrels. It was almost difficult to find a 20" HBar as much as $149. Really confounded me as to me HBar conveys the implications of a heavy barrel match grade tube, not a bargain barrel but guess people like their under $100 retail barrels these days. Went to the White Oak Armament website and entered all the features on barrel using and it ran up to $270 with the 1:8 twist. Found a Hardened Arms 20" 1:8 HBar tube for $260.

Went to the McGowen site from other thread running and their 20" "Modified" HBar 1:8 is $265 which are all in the sweet spot for good entry level barrels. Found it odd McGowen's site would not even let me order a true HBar configuration in 223/5.56 Wylde but would in several odder chamberings. Went to Pac-Nor/Noveske and could not get a true HBar profile and 1:7 is only twist offered. Will run 90% or more with 69 grain SMK's or 62 grain military ammo so 1:7 is faster twist than would prefer. Kreiger let me run through and select every option wanted from profile to bead blasting, chamber reamer, threading, crown and an entire host of twists with 1:7.7 being closest to 1:8 available. Have been reading about a lot of folks using 1:7.7 Bartlein, Kreiger and other barrels with 69 grain SMK's very successfully. Only issue is a $500 price tag.

Full On Rant Warning
Bartlein's website says they will not provide AR 15 or AR 10 barrels even as customs "period". If want can order a blank and let a smith do all the finish profile, chamber, fit barrel extension, etc but in thier opinion there is so much variation in specifications from upper to upper and rifle to rifle there is no way to build a drop in AR 15 or AR 10 barrel that will fit or shoot to their demanding specifications.

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At this time we are not offering drop in barrels for AR15 and AR10 type guns. Why? AR10’s are the hardest thing to offer for drop in barrels. For one to try and get barrel extensions and bolts even in good times can be problematic at best. Also the barrel extensions and bolts will not interchange from one manufacturer to the next. Regardless of what you might have heard that they will they will not. I tell guys at best you have a 50/50 chance that they will work. The DPMS will not interchange with Armalite etc….same goes for Knights Armament. Knights are completely different not to mention different thread specs. Etc….

Also the different contours customers want (light, a medium heavy contour, heavy contour etc…) and now throw in carbine length gas ports, rifle length gas ports, different calibers (and chambers), different twists, c.m. or s.s. barrels, different gas port sizes etc….it would be almost impossible for us to take an order and give a decent turn around time.

Same goes for AR15 barrels but these are not as bad because they would be a .224cal. barrel only for the most part but guys do ask for 6.5 Grendal and some 6mm’s etc…

Your options? We can make you a barrel blank but you need a gunsmith to do all the finish work for you. Turn it to the contour you want, gas port it, thread and chamber, install the barrel extension and crown and even thread the muzzle if need be. If you don’t have a gunsmith to do the work for you I would suggest the following:
I like it when someone calls Lego gun builders with their $100 total tool and holding fixture investment can't possibly fit one of their barrels precisely in the wide range of mismatched parts available unless they send it to a professional. They do refer folks that want a Bartlein to Compas Lake Engineering where $550 will get me my 1:7.7 twist AR 15 "drop in" tube made from a Bartlein blank.

Have to square every upper, lapp many upper bolt runs, actually have two name brand uppers in a box I have marked as "do not use, too far out of spec". As many barrels as have to coat the extension with Loctite, shim all the way around with shim stock and have at least a dozen or more thicknesses of shim stock in 0.001 thickness difference to shim extensions in uppers to get a good snug fit where barrel is centered in upper plus pins that don't fit snug in notch and have to be addressed by selecting from inventory of 60+ uppers to get best fit and currently have two barrels sent off to W.O.A. for new barrel extensions as the extensions that came on them from other vendors sucked, didn't fit upper or headspace correctly.

People just order a hodge podge of parts, smash them all together with an armorers wrench and a hammer then claim just built a 1/2 MOA rifle on kitchen table with their one receiver to hope fits their one barrel, out of square upper and no torque wrench. Why I keep dozens of barrels, dozens of receivers from DPMS (Especially their Lo Pro series), SIG, Spikes, SWAT, Aero and others so can trial fit barrels to uppers and reduce the amount of shimming, bedding the extension with Loctite and other tricks to make all the parts fit properly. Find myself having to adjust the height of the bolt hold open on most builds for optimum fit and most folks never seem to realize or discuss the nuances of how the BHO should engage magazine and bolt.

Yes about anyone with a few tools and sense can screw together an AR, many can do a decent job with just a few tools like an upper lapping tool and torque wrench thrown into the project along with bedding or shimming the extension in the upper. More you learn (why I have the thread with recommended reading as buy several new books per year on nuances of building AR's) from reading, research, experience and learning to measure tolerances, run out, etc and more that one puts into a build the more one gets out. I have torn down uppers and lowers assembled by companies like Palmetto then properly squared the upper, bedded the extension, torqued the barrel, tuned the trigger, fitied the BHO, filed here and tapped there to have a rifle that went from 1.5/1.75 MOA to 1.0/1.4 MOA. Some things like poor chambering job can only be touched up so much and only so much work can be done with a throater.

Yes, you can buy a Palmetto or whoever upper, slap it on a lower you assembled from a generic parts kit and even drop in a $200 trigger. Can order a Palmetto or other lower as funds allow or clearance sale hits on item you wanted, join the two and call it a build, it may even shoot MOA or slightly under on a good day with good ammo if lucky. But like the 24" 5.56 heavy barrel I built a couple weeks ago final assembly went relatively quickly but had spent over an hour with the trigger on the jig and fitting block and matched the springs I wanted and had bagged up waiting. Had spent the time to pick the best fitting DPMS Lo Pro upper I had to the barrel and tried a half dozen lowers till found one that seemed to mate to the upper decently. Being able to select parts from a group that best interact and even when that fails know how to shim, bed, square, file and fit plus torque every fastener from barrel nut to muzzle device, optics mounts and scope rings.

More you put in the more you get out and somehow I keep learning new tricks that matter just often enough feel each year that goes by am building better rifles than year before even if using take off and junk box parts to come up with a $100 running rifle. Also why outsource most of my turn bolt work, it's a real horse to ride blueprinting an action and hand lapping the recoil lugs. Why I keep buying more specialty tools, can dissasemble a bolt and reassemble with it being much happier after a little tuning just like a trigger does.
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Old October 13, 2018, 06:23   #8
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Thank you for the recommendation and heads up fly,,,I was needing another pair of ar triggers.
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Old October 15, 2018, 09:05   #9
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They must be swamped with oders,,,,just emailed me that they were in production and 3 weeks behind
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Old October 15, 2018, 09:19   #10
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It's my favorite AR trigger now.
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Old October 15, 2018, 11:44   #11
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The MBT's a great trigger, especially for the price. However, I like my Elftmann enough to justify the cost difference.
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Old October 15, 2018, 12:48   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
They must be swamped with oders,,,,just emailed me that they were in production and 3 weeks behind
O' Huey , Must have got them ALL ....lol...
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Old October 15, 2018, 12:52   #13
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It's my favorite AR trigger now.
What is cu.in'' in the V8 pictured in your Avatar ? 635 ?
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Old October 15, 2018, 14:02   #14
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Just ordered one to replace a standard trigger. I thought I already had replaced all but evidentially not. We will see how this one works out. Thanks for the Post.

Update:
Received an email that my trigger has been placed on back order, two to three weeks.
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Old October 15, 2018, 23:11   #15
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Did inventory over the weekend and down to 5 Franklin binaries, 8 Colt Competition Target, 5 Colt Competition milspec, 6 DPMS milspec, 4 Hyperfire 24E's and 3 AR Stoner Plated milspec plus a box of milspec take outs didn't count. Till my turn comes up on list no two stage triggers for me unless find a stash in a safe. Even if have to tune milspec triggers can get them under four pounds and clean, crisp break. Do need those two stages for some builds that might get Hiperfires for the interim.
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Old October 16, 2018, 12:38   #16
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JoeBob Outfitters has 10% off all their Elftmann Tactical Products using the coupon code, ELF18, until 10/31. Acording to their email this morning.
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Old October 16, 2018, 18:08   #17
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JoeBob Outfitters has 10% off all their Elftmann Tactical Products using the coupon code, ELF18, until 10/31. Acording to their email this morning.
Went to the Elftmann Tactical website first to see their current product line and still don't advertise a unit less than 2.75 pounds of pull. Would guess that with their riveted drop in construction swapping springs or making adjustments would be difficult and defiantly void any warranty. With MSRP starting at $179 going to $279 would want ability to go under 2.75 pound pull.

More I use Hiperfire trigger packs more I like as they are so easy to stack springs for desired weight are becoming one of my most recommended single stage triggers for people who like to piddle with pull weight and not going to try and hone or square. They say on most choose the 2.5 or 3.5 pound pull spring pack and install. I have swapped in non Hiperfire springs, put on hammer and sear jig and taken them down to crisp 2.0 pound triggers that will still light the hardest of military primers. It's a cool system to play with and thus far not had a hiccup with any in stock or modified outside of factory trim. So glad I loaded up on the 24's and 24E's when able to buy at $59 and $79 as all they did was rename them the Genesis and Elite change packaging and change price to $200 MSRP. Am kicking myself for only buying six of each but have trigger selection like most folks have selection of screws and nails, big piles of many different brands/models.


I do like this Elftmann aluminum stock at $129 and have a build currently in progress that may use one as a test rifle for the stock. Shame it's not classified as a pistol brace but as a stock think I might use it with a 4.5" Battle Arms Development buffer and the 13.7" Noveske 6.8 spc II barrel with pinned Flaming Pig. Barrel is 16.015" from bolt face to front edge of the flash can. With 4.5" of buffer and this stock installed should be able to collapse and stow easily but extend to proper length of pull easily.




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