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Old April 06, 2017, 22:15   #351
Bawana jim
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
Any idea how many felonies (of all types) the average prison time serving convict commits without ever getting caught them???

They have done studies on this with convicts sitting inside prisons.
And also looked at crime rate drops when mandatory sentences are imposed, which gives a darn good number as well.

Being convicted of non violent crimes is one thing, but how many violent crimes are committed in this county vs the number of people ever convicted?
Here's a list but it only goes to the first hundred..

https://www.federalcharges.com/federal-charges-list/

How many of these deserve you never being able to defend your family again? I like the one on moving plants, folks are a real danger if they bring a wild Rhode home...
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Old April 06, 2017, 22:16   #352
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
Well there you go again with installing qualifiers

Let's touch on Crazy folks. Once ADJUDICATED an incompetent they really don't retain many rights. In effect they are in the same class as any incarcerated Citizen.

Now let's cover the 13th Amendment:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

So as a condition of punishment you become enslaved, pretty clear right ?

Now the 14th:
" All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

That explains who are citizens but wait it gets much better YH...

The 15th:
"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

My my my, did you catch that last part ?
"Previous Condition of Servitude

So to wrap this up with a neat little bow for you if you go to prison you are in a condition of servitude even though you retain your status as a Citizen. Once the period of servitude is completed your Rights return.
Yeppers, thats what it states.

Note there is nowhere that it states in the Constitution that a Citizen can be stripped of their citizenship for typical Criminal activity, just for things like Treason.

bringing up Age restrictions is idiotic in the extreme
we don't let children vote either do we, that's just a typical false flag and no RKBA doesn't mean you can carry your piece on other peoples property
your Rights end where my property line begins. Start running your mouth in my yard claiming free speech I'll have your ass trespassed
or maybe worse.

But do keep trying you ole' Left Coast hater of Freedom
Its becoming clear, that me holding a conversation with you is going to be damn near impossible.
So as my Dine friends say, just stop running when tired.
Carry on without me, we won't miss one another.
You have a good evening.
I'm gone from your world.
shalom
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Old April 06, 2017, 22:21   #353
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
Its becoming clear, that me holding a conversation with you is going to be damn near impossible.
So as my Dine friends say, just stop running when tired.
Carry on without me, we won't miss one another.
You have a good evening.
I'm gone from your world.
shalom
I just engaged my Liberal Speak Transilator:

what comes out is I can't talk with you because I don't have a damn clue about the relevant Constitutional issues
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Old April 06, 2017, 22:31   #354
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Here's a list but it only goes to the first hundred..

https://www.federalcharges.com/federal-charges-list/

How many of these deserve you never being able to defend your family again? I like the one on moving plants, folks are a real danger if they bring a wild Rhode home...

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...rimemain_final

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/html/cjusew96/cpp.cfm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1206111644.htm

http://www.crimeinamerica.net/2009/1...y-the-numbers/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nces-each.html

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...rsons-arrested


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_..._United_States
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Old April 06, 2017, 22:38   #355
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
I just engaged my Liberal Speak Transilator:

what comes out is I can't talk with you because I don't have a damn clue about the relevant Constitutional issues
Even I can't pass this one up!

So you will not need your liberal speak translator, and you misspelled translator above, let me try and impress upon you the southern red neck version of my message.

For whatever reason, two or three times now, I found myself having stepped off into dog shit, that being you, and I have now decided to wipe you off my boot and leave you to others.
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Old April 06, 2017, 22:52   #356
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Better statistics here, so are you good keeping a gun fom people with pot offenses?

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Pris....zUc6EmrS.dpbs
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Old April 06, 2017, 23:00   #357
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[QUOTE=Bawana jim;4402420]Better statistics here, so are you good keeping a gun fom people with pot offenses?

No not really, hell, I'm still mixed on convicted felons for any reason once they leave prison getting their rights returned, after they pay their debt to society.
Part of me thinks, they paid for the crime, start over fresh.
Part of me thinks, why take a chance on them screwing up again and using a weapon when they do it, not that laws would stop them from using a weapon, but it would give society a chance to tag on another 10 or 20 years for using a firearm.
Its not a black and white issue.
Other than us having a single vote, ain't nothing any of us are going to do on the issue one way or the other.
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Old April 06, 2017, 23:01   #358
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
Even I can't pass this one up!

So you will not need your liberal speak translator, and you misspelled translator above, let me try and impress upon you the southern red neck version of my message.

For whatever reason, two or three times now, I found myself having stepped off into dog shit, that being you, and I have now decided to wipe you off my boot and leave you to others.
Ah the final refuge of a sore loser, the ole' spelling critique

Look, I get it...you love regulations where you can impose your normative values on everyone else.
I realized this with your contributions to that silly Pitt Bull thread
Hell you seemed to be fully in favor of a Doggie genocide of all breeds larger than ankle biters in your Final Solution

This deal is really little different YH
I simply believe in following the Constitution in it's strict construction
You simply do not...

Yes I understand a Constructionalist America would be a very scary place for you and others
that's still no excuse for rewrites of our most basic National Laws to enhance the security of your personal Safety Bubble & no amount of your excuses can change that basic fact.

As I noted, there are ways to lawfully prohibit felons from bearing Arms
I agree there are those who shouldn't be armed but you don't do it with a blanket prohibition enforced by an unlawful taxation act
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Old April 06, 2017, 23:30   #359
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None of this is relevant. Power comes out the barrel of a gun. Ideology is enforced by those with the power to enforce it, period. "Rational discussion" was invented by tyrants as a time-wasting game to amuse their subjects. Keeps them busy arguing with each other instead of beheading the tyrant.

Each should do what he can to build wealth power and influence for his family to pass on to the grandkids, raise them to manage and increase the family business, ruthlessly disinherit any kids who turn out to be duds, and hope for the best. Which is that your posterity will one day have the power to tell everyone to p*ss off, and make it happen.

Its really all about family, tribe, clan, etc, in ever expanding circles. Its how the "PTBs" roll, and how they've been rolling for millennia.

Yes, might makes right in the real world, because the weak can only complain, and not much more.

Except work on getting strong...
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Old April 07, 2017, 05:48   #360
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Let's see now, those protestors that got arrested in Burns should never be allowed to hunt with a firearm again after being railroaded to jail, is that what you are saying?
Allright, If they are convicted of a violent crime with a gun and go to fed prison. The ATF needs to get into another line of work. Their history is not so good.
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Old April 07, 2017, 06:59   #361
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
...
Now let's cover the 13th Amendment:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
...
The 15th:
"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

So to wrap this up with a neat little bow for you if you go to prison you are in a condition of servitude even though you retain your status as a Citizen. Once the period of servitude is completed your Rights return.
Yeppers, thats what it states.
This really does address what I personally have long held, that either your rights are restored on serving a sentence or you're still under sentence. Which, if you're going to take RKBA and Suffrage away, makes you effectively under a life sentence. Wrong as the proverbial two boys kissing. But for the sake of argument, if a convict is no longer a citizen with respect to his civil liberties and responsibilities, why is he still encumbered by other obligations of citizenry, for example, tax law?

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Better statistics here, so are you good keeping a gun fom people with pot offenses?

No not really, hell, I'm still mixed on convicted felons for any reason once they leave prison getting their rights returned, after they pay their debt to society.
Part of me thinks, they paid for the crime, start over fresh.
Part of me thinks, why take a chance on them screwing up again and using a weapon when they do it, not that laws would stop them from using a weapon, but it would give society a chance to tag on another 10 or 20 years for using a firearm.
Its not a black and white issue.
Other than us having a single vote, ain't nothing any of us are going to do on the issue one way or the other.
Again, me personally but I think if they've 'paid their debt to society' they get their rights back. All of 'em. Otherwise what we are doing, by withholding for example RKBA reeks of proactive punishment before the fact rather than punishment as a consequence. In fact it is exactly that, proactive punishment before the fact. Sure maybe violent felons are more likely to commit another violent crime. So are black people and dumbasses. Doesn't matter, punishment before the crime is committed is simply un-American. And the reason we take a chance on them screwing up again is because this is how we roll as Americans, we judge individuals by they actually do rather than what we think they might do. Yep, it's far from perfect and gives me a bit of discomfort too. Then again, it's one more reason why we have guns.
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Old April 07, 2017, 09:07   #362
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This really does address what I personally have long held, that either your rights are restored on serving a sentence or you're still under sentence. Which, if you're going to take RKBA and Suffrage away, makes you effectively under a life sentence. Wrong as the proverbial two boys kissing. But for the sake of argument, if a convict is no longer a citizen with respect to his civil liberties and responsibilities, why is he still encumbered by other obligations of citizenry, for example, tax law?
This is where is gets screwy...

While eligibility to Vote is restricted in certain States, in close to 40 it is returned automatically upon expiration.
In fact in at least Two States Convicts can lawfully vote while incarcerated
This drama regarding Felons voting has long been part of the Fake News narrative & talking points promoted by asshats at FAUX News like O'Reilly.

There is zero Federal level restriction on Felons Voting, RKBA was once the same.

So what happened ?

Sadly, much of the State level prohibitions on Felons voting were the result of the early Civil Rights era. It was largely a knee jerk reaction by racialist Politicians to suppress minority voting in their States.

Similarly the 1968 Gun Control Act had similar roots in targeted Rights suppression of minorities.
Prior to the GCA the only Federal law targeting armed Felons was a 1937 act targeting Felons who actually used a firearm in interstate criminal activity. That Act was entirely lawful as the qualifier was being a scumbag acting out with a gun, not mere possession thereof.

Another interesting component in all this was the very concept of Prohibited Persons.
For example if you have a dishonorable Discharge from the Armed Forces you are prohibited.
Sounds fine on the surface until you consider the numbers of people that ended up with a dishonorable over being homosexual, even sleeping with another Man's wife back then.

I am hardly one to be considered pro Ghey however to strip a Man or Woman of RKBA over sexual orientation is extremely messed up.
To do it over Adultry is even further over the top in my opinion.

I have never argued that we should willy nilly automatically restore RKBA. In my way of thinking if we the people can not trust a Man with a firearm perhaps that Man should remain on some level of post incarceration Supervision until such a time that they have shown they are responsible enough to resume the full balance of their rights. That's the simple, elegant & more over lawful fix.

I fail to understand why this such a difficult concept for some to grasp
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Old April 07, 2017, 09:11   #363
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Leave it to bubba to be the one who says it right...
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Old April 07, 2017, 09:31   #364
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...
< deleted to make room>
...
I have never argued that we should willy nilly automatically restore RKBA. In my way of thinking if we the people can not trust a Man with a firearm perhaps that Man should remain on some level of post incarceration Supervision until such a time that they have shown they are responsible enough to resume the full balance of their rights. That's the simple, elegant & more over lawful fix.

I fail to understand why this such a difficult concept for some to grasp
I have. I've argued that we should restore all civil liberties, if a person has served then he's served. If ya want to further restrict civil liberties then ok, perhaps make it part of the sentence. This is what a judge should do and state law should be permissive, not requisite in this area. Because if a person hasn't had his liberties restored in full then he's still under sentence, and sentencing is the purview of the judicial, not the legislative branch.

From what I gather we're basically saying the same thing except from two different sides. Or maybe even the same side.

Got a problem with three strikes laws too, for basically the same reason. But you might have surmised this
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Old April 07, 2017, 11:48   #365
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I have. I've argued that we should restore all civil liberties, if a person has served then he's served. If ya want to further restrict civil liberties then ok, perhaps make it part of the sentence. This is what a judge should do and state law should be permissive, not requisite in this area. Because if a person hasn't had his liberties restored in full then he's still under sentence, and sentencing is the purview of the judicial, not the legislative branch.

From what I gather we're basically saying the same thing except from two different sides. Or maybe even the same side.

Got a problem with three strikes laws too, for basically the same reason. But you might have surmised this
We are basically on the same side on all this.

Now saying that a Judge lacks authority to restrict rights.
All a Judge can do is impose a period of Supervision and/or Incarceration during which most Rights are curtailed.

What Rights end up curtailed under Supervision is generally reserved on a case by case basis to Corrections/Probation.
Some Probation Officers are rather open minded about Bows, even Black Powder. Others panic even regarding a pocket knife or a Red Ryder BB gun.
But that's lawful as the Citizen is under legal involuntary servitude per the 13th Amendment.

A few States are having serious legal issues with their Civil Confinement Laws where Sex Offenders are held post expiration of Sentence. Yeah, I detest Pedophiles & Rapists in general with a fevered passion but you can't just go all Minority Report and continue to incarcerate Citizens for "Pre-Crime" either.

Minnesota has a extremely hard core Civil Confinement Law...100s of Pedos are sitting in Moose Lake after having completed Court Sentence. Totally unlawful.

Lawfully the sentencing Judge can impose say a 20 year period of supervision post incarceration as a sentencing enhancement then Corrections could place them into long term residential situations such as a Half Way house but to simply hold folks past their Court imposed sentence is all sorts of screwed up.

Three Strikes law is just retarded regardless of YH's incidental statistical evidence. The Feds have their own version, the Armed Career Criminal Act. While the name sounds real good the reality is under the US Sentencing Guidelines all convictions are counted up. One could have a few rather petty "felonies" in their past, get busted with possession of a firearm and be facing 20 to life.
Even old DUIs count into this determination.

I loathed Obama however his flood of Commutations had much to do with ACCA convictions. That's right, unlike the Fake Newz brandished by Conservative there were extremely few actual Pardons granted. Most simply had the period of incarceration cut short then they went to extended supervision.
Folks tend to miss just how crowded up Federal facillities are with old farts. Typically a young Convict costs roughly 30K a year to hold in a cell. Old guys cost well upwards of 50K due to enhanced medical care.

California has serious problems due to three strikes idiocy. Read one report that claimed the average cost per inmate at a number of high security facilities was roughly 100K per inmate on average...that's insane. Manson alone has cost taxpayers MILLIONS of dollars and he was well before Three Strikes nonsense.

As far as corrections policy goes I brought up what Men like Cole Younger received when they left Stillwater State Pen in MN.
The idea was you should send the ex con out the gates with enough to re establish himself in society...the the $20, clothes, rifle, ammo and blanket/saddle. With that the Man had a start.

Today Cons from that very same Pen get one set of clothes and $100...shit, bearly enough for two nights in a no tell motel.
So yeah a fair number re offend in short order. Particulary those who do experation. No half way house for them, they go direct to the street & they were usually the ones who were prison trouble makers.
Back in the 1900s $20 would give you a room & keep you fed for at least a month or more.

Another point. Back up through the late 70s even Felony crimes were often handled outside incarceration...many young Men simply volunteered for a stint in the Armed Forces. That was dead common.
Truth is many scumbags as well as society would be far better served by a pass through Camp Pendleton than sitting in a cell on the tax payer's dime.

We had a bit of a return to that during the Sand Box wars, that's how desperate the military was for blood & bodies
Understand during WWII we emptied Prisons, Brits and Canucks did too...active recruiting of even convicted murderers. Just more forgotten history. Some ended up high decorated Combat Vets.

What's lost on folks like YH is what colonial America was under the Brits
it was basically a dumping ground for their prison population who were shipped here under articles of indentured servitude after becoming persona non grata in England for debt or crime in general.
When they lost America, England did the same in Australia just scant years later.
This was the root of many unique parts of the Constitution such as the utter prohibition on Bills of Attainder. In America it was difficult to strip a Citizen of their rights as a Citizen, England it was extremely easy. No Due Process needed or required.

Another point is while YH wants to source American jurisprudence only to Colonial America it's far more ancient than that. Even well prior to Magna Carta.

Goes back to Imperial Roman law
Romans regarded everyone living outside of Roman law as utlagatus, simply Outlaws.
utlagatus could become Citizens thus losing that outlaw status however that involved submission to Rome. Basically Rome regarded ALL non citizens as criminals living outside Roman law.
After the fall of the Empire the term evolved. If you refused to submit to the King or local Baron you became an outlaw, a criminal like William Wallace.

In short when YH claims he would never associate with Felons he needs to understand that includes the whole of the founders of America
They were the highest form of Criminal, straight traitors most foul.
Had England prevailed Washington would have been hung by the neck, same with Jefferson, Franklin and others.
Look at what happened to Patrick Henry.

America is rather unique in many ways, I'd like to keep it that way...
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Old April 07, 2017, 11:53   #366
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Ya that was way too long to read but felt you needed a reply worthy of all your work.
Well if you get some time a little later (no rush), I'd encourage you to revisit it...I thought I was the one stepping into the lion's den coming out of the gate with the Hillary admission. Instead it looks like I've entered a "safe space."
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Old April 07, 2017, 12:27   #367
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Well if you get some time a little later (no rush), I'd encourage you to revisit it...I thought I was the one stepping into the lion's den coming out of the gate with the Hillary admission. Instead it looks like I've entered a "safe space."
Yeah, again I wear the Verbose Asshole ticket with pride on these things but it's impossible to deliver a decent response on the topic with a scant few lines.

Folks have been conditioned to accept certain things as the new normal with ZERO regards to our basic national Law.

I freely accept some will disagree with me, this is just discussion. I don't ever get all butt hurt about discussion but some things deserve saying by my way of thought.

Truth is the Consitituion and BOR are wrote in basic language, very easy to understand. Those who don't like it should endevor to change what they take issue with rather than offer up their own new interpetations of phrases or even mere words.
No one needs some asshole to tell them what these things mean. I just put the actual words out there, I want all you guys to digest them on your own with some historical background so everything is in context.

I am no one's priest...
be your own priest.
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Old April 07, 2017, 13:31   #368
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Getting back to Gorsuch & the 2nd
here's a direct quote:

"Heller makes clear the standard that we judges are supposed to apply. The question is whether it is a gun in common use for self-defense, and that may be subject to reasonable regulation. Thatís the test as I understand it. There is lots of ongoing litigation about which weapons qualify under those standards. And I canít prejudge that litigation."

That's kinda scary shit
really dumbass as the actual "standard" is whether a particular firearm is suitable for MILITARY use.
Not self defense but defense of the nation.
Guys, look into the arguments before the Supremes in US versus Miller back in the 30s. Miller, a bootlegger was busted with a sawed off shotgun. The High Court's main question was whether a SBS was suitable as a military weapon. Sadly Miller vanished before his second appearance before SCOTUS.

The general premise is the 2nd only protects arms with militia utility thus while a select fire M16 should be protected, grandpa's single shot .22 Stevens Crackshot probably is not.

Gorsuch extends this further eliminating the militia utility demeaning it to "self defense".

I am further troubled by Gorsuch's statement that the 2nd "Can't be infringed lightly"...
test of the 2nd ?

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It's simple English & Words mean things

at what point did SHALL NOT become lightly is Okay ?
Actually in RKBA Gorsuch is nearly identical to the shitburd Obama wanted for the seat.
Yeah Garland was roundly lamblasted as "anti gun" however he is basically little different than Gorsuch in the same belief the Government having Authority to dictate just what is suitable for Citizens to possess.

He's pretty good to great on other things but he's slightly to the left of Scalia on RKBA.
The staunched pro RKBA person on SCOTUS for years has been Clarence Thomas. He don't say much publically but he's solid. Yeah the Black guy.
Avid bird killer, Goose hunts in rural North Dakota and a very down to earth Man. Thomas is to the right of where Scalia stood particularly on the 2nd.

Gorsuch is another Roberts
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Old April 07, 2017, 14:45   #369
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Yeah, again I wear the Verbose Asshole ticket with pride on these things but it's impossible to deliver a decent response on the topic with a scant few lines.

Folks have been conditioned to accept certain things as the new normal with ZERO regards to our basic national Law.

I freely accept some will disagree with me, this is just discussion. I don't ever get all butt hurt about discussion but some things deserve saying by my way of thought.

Truth is the Consitituion and BOR are wrote in basic language, very easy to understand. Those who don't like it should endevor to change what they take issue with rather than offer up their own new interpetations of phrases or even mere words.
No one needs some asshole to tell them what these things mean. I just put the actual words out there, I want all you guys to digest them on your own with some historical background so everything is in context.

I am no one's priest...
be your own priest.
You're the one coming with the facts and reason here. I was referring to Bawanajim with the "safe space" comment, because that seems to be a favorite way for many folks, particularly in my experience white "baby boomers" who came of age and prosperity sometime between 1974-1982 (after the draft ended and before PATCO and NAFTA started messing with our wages) and didn't lose their job or major income in the 2008 crash, to try and get the other person to walk away from an argument.

Again referring to the WaPo article that I linked in my lengthier post a couple pages back that it seems everyone scrolled past (pretty sure most folks here won't have already used up their 10 free articles this month):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.b65baeeaaeb9

In the five years that I was going to the range every weekend, and the five years after once I started working regularly that I went semi-regularly before I got too sidetracked with research, I think I may have seen 8-10 Black men at the two public, DNR-monitored gun ranges that I attended. Black and Hispanic people and LGBTQIA individuals pay taxes too. Progressive movements are talking about intersectionality and using white privilege to amplify the voices and concerns of movements led by women and people of color to those who otherwise would not listen to them. Perhaps this is a learning moment for intersectionality within the 2A activist community.
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Old April 07, 2017, 14:47   #370
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Well if you get some time a little later (no rush), I'd encourage you to revisit it...I thought I was the one stepping into the lion's den coming out of the gate with the Hillary admission. Instead it looks like I've entered a "safe space."
The bait you use is for sucker fish and bottom feeders, not fit for thinking people. Enjoy that safe space as it was provided by the blood of patriots.

Edited to add, From your first post bigbird

"*Swallowed hard and voted for Hillary in the general after strongly considering voting for Gary Johnson in the general for a second time. I consider myself an economically centrist, socially radically progressive, philosophically libertarian individual.*"

So you can better understand why I won't get into politics with you, it is obvious you have failed judgement. All your studies and world travels yet you still can't see what is different. Simply put it takes an educated idiot to vote for hillary so there is no future in talking to you. One day if you ever take those studies and reason what is different then you might end up making a good choice on voting but being a progressive like you admitted to I have little hope you will reach any understanding.
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Old April 07, 2017, 15:38   #371
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You're the one coming with the facts and reason here. I was referring to Bawanajim with the "safe space" comment, because that seems to be a favorite way for many folks, particularly in my experience white "baby boomers" who came of age and prosperity sometime between 1974-1982 (after the draft ended and before PATCO and NAFTA started messing with our wages) and didn't lose their job or major income in the 2008 crash, to try and get the other person to walk away from an argument.

Again referring to the WaPo article that I linked in my lengthier post a couple pages back that it seems everyone scrolled past (pretty sure most folks here won't have already used up their 10 free articles this month):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.b65baeeaaeb9

In the five years that I was going to the range every weekend, and the five years after once I started working regularly that I went semi-regularly before I got too sidetracked with research, I think I may have seen 8-10 Black men at the two public, DNR-monitored gun ranges that I attended. Black and Hispanic people and LGBTQIA individuals pay taxes too. Progressive movements are talking about intersectionality and using white privilege to amplify the voices and concerns of movements led by women and people of color to those who otherwise would not listen to them. Perhaps this is a learning moment for intersectionality within the 2A activist community.
Ya know...some comments:

Wanna run into a huge population of Armed Felons ?
take a walk through a Closed Indian Resevtion

It's rare to see a breed at shows
Know why ?
if you are obviously brown many White gun folks see you as shit.

Funny one last weekend
sold a beat to hell percussion double eight bore to a SOMALI !
No nipples, one broken hammer. Guy yammered on and on and on
Now in general I HATE Somalis but this skinny was respectful, he just wanted a Cool wall hanger. Hard core Muzzie too

Years ago I gave table space to a bud
He ran a local SWAT unit
around 6'4 and damn near Purple
Guy lived and breathed RKBA yet Whites were in fear of him. The huge Negro thing I guess.

Same with Latinos & Asians.
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Old April 07, 2017, 17:14   #372
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You're the one coming with the facts and reason here. I was referring to Bawanajim with the "safe space" comment, because that seems to be a favorite way for many folks, particularly in my experience white "baby boomers" who came of age and prosperity sometime between 1974-1982 (after the draft ended and before PATCO and NAFTA started messing with our wages) and didn't lose their job or major income in the 2008 crash, to try and get the other person to walk away from an argument.
...
If only. Folks, I've seen a lot over the years, been to a worlds fair, a picnic and a rodeo but I've never heard anyone refer to the years 1974-1982 as some sort of prosperous time in America. For those like big bird here who've only read about this in the propaganda rags that pass for history textbooks these days I have a few words ... Arab oil embargo, odd/even gas days, stagflation, wage/price controls, Gerald Ford (remember Whip Inflation Now?), Jimmy Earl Carter, (malaise=21% mortage rates), 13% inflation, silver +700%, 8.5% unemployment and going up, and economic growth bottoming out at -0.5%. Yep, you saw that right, not low growth, real no-shit contraction of the GDP. Couple that with the real inflation rate and you're looking at an economic rollback that would have made Herbert Hoover blush if he'd been around to see it.

1974-1982 as the glory years of the economy? Well ya saw it here folks, out of their own mouths. This is what they consider to be good. If we had the same prosperity as we had during these years over the last forty we'd be looking at a GDP about the size of Namibia right about now.
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Old April 07, 2017, 17:22   #373
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If only. Folks, I've seen a lot over the years, been to a worlds fair, a picnic and a rodeo but I've never heard anyone refer to the years 1974-1982 as some sort of prosperous time in America. For those like big bird here who've only read about this in the propaganda rags that pass for history textbooks these days I have a few words ... Arab oil embargo, odd/even gas days, stagflation, wage/price controls, Gerald Ford (remember Whip Inflation Now?), Jimmy Earl Carter, (malaise=21% mortage rates), 13% inflation, silver +700%, 8.5% unemployment and going up, and economic growth bottoming out at -0.5%. Yep, you saw that right, not low growth, real no-shit contraction of the GDP. Couple that with the real inflation rate and you're looking at an economic rollback that would have made Herbert Hoover blush if he'd been around to see it.

1974-1982 as the glory years of the economy? Well ya saw it here folks, out of their own mouths. This is what they consider to be good. If we had the same prosperity as we had during these years over the last forty we'd be looking at a GDP about the size of Namibia right about now.
And let's not forget the destruction of the entire economy in the NW for the spotted owl. BB makes J look smart..
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Old April 08, 2017, 00:57   #374
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If only. Folks, I've seen a lot over the years, been to a worlds fair, a picnic and a rodeo but I've never heard anyone refer to the years 1974-1982 as some sort of prosperous time in America. For those like big bird here who've only read about this in the propaganda rags that pass for history textbooks these days I have a few words ... Arab oil embargo, odd/even gas days, stagflation, wage/price controls, Gerald Ford (remember Whip Inflation Now?), Jimmy Earl Carter, (malaise=21% mortage rates), 13% inflation, silver +700%, 8.5% unemployment and going up, and economic growth bottoming out at -0.5%. Yep, you saw that right, not low growth, real no-shit contraction of the GDP. Couple that with the real inflation rate and you're looking at an economic rollback that would have made Herbert Hoover blush if he'd been around to see it.

1974-1982 as the glory years of the economy? Well ya saw it here folks, out of their own mouths. This is what they consider to be good. If we had the same prosperity as we had during these years over the last forty we'd be looking at a GDP about the size of Namibia right about now.
I know. I grew up hearing the stories. It must not have felt nice to you at the time. But try at least empathizing with coming out the other end of even a public college education after the 2008 meltdown.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...enough-summer/

Public college tuition (in-state for Georgia):

1977-78: $549 annually
2006-2007: $4101 annually (I think my actual bill that school year was $4700 and change

Today: $11,986 annually.

Real value of minimum wage in 1978 in 2016 dollars: $8.00/hr
Real value of minimum wage in 2006 in 2016 dollars: $6.10/hr

I know that it must have been a shock to your system at the time, but if you're young and trying to get on your feet, you can at least see why young people would be upset with this situation?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-minimum-wage/

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Old April 08, 2017, 01:06   #375
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I know. I grew up hearing the stories. It must not have felt nice to you at the time. But try at least empathizing with coming out the other end of even a public college education after the 2008 meltdown.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...enough-summer/

Public college tuition (in-state for Georgia):

1977-78: $549 annually
2006-2007: $4101 annually (I think my actual bill that school year was $4700 and change

Today: $11,986 annually.

Real value of minimum wage in 1978 in 2016 dollars: $8.00/hr
Real value of minimum wage in 2006 in 2016 dollars: $6.10/hr

I know that it must have been a shock to your system at the time, but if you're young and trying to get on your feet, you can at least see why young people would be upset with this situation?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-minimum-wage/
Additionally, I think we all know by now the unemployment rate the day Obama took office: (8.2%), and if you jump to the day I graduated with my bachelors' degree (May 2010) you see that it's 9.6%....you see why I went to grad school now? Especially since Continuous Coverage was still a thing with the health insurance laws at the time and we didn't have the till-age 26 provision, and the ACA was still hibernating?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
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Old April 08, 2017, 01:41   #376
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Additionally, I think we all know by now the unemployment rate the day Obama took office: (8.2%), and if you jump to the day I graduated with my bachelors' degree (May 2010) you see that it's 9.6%....you see why I went to grad school now? Especially since Continuous Coverage was still a thing with the health insurance laws at the time and we didn't have the till-age 26 provision, and the ACA was still hibernating?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
So you have a masters in anthropology and think the economy has something to do with your lack of career opportunity. That's cute.
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Old April 08, 2017, 02:07   #377
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So you have a masters in anthropology and think the economy has something to do with your lack of career opportunity. That's cute.
I did not have one at the time. I had a Bachelors in Middle East Studies at the time.

Not tackling my own depression and not pursuing a line of work that lined up with my actual experience are the main factors that have happened since then, and I'm not too proud to admit that.

Point being, not trying to make it a pissing contest about who has/had it worse with the economy. I'm trying to say empathize with people who are trying and struggling, and know that you don't know their experiences. And also, in this country, at no point in time have white men ever been subject to systematic, legal discrimination. If you have never been a young, Black male, you will never actually know what it is like from the perspective of the criminal justice system to be one. Acknowledge that privilege and move forward with it. You can use your privilege as a tool for change, a weapon for oppression, or whatever else. What alarmed me most when I went to the rally of our current president while he was still a candidate was a supporter of the then-candidate who said, "Well you're a white male, so you're the least privileged person on this Earth."

What I was trying to bring up to begin with, was that I had a very, very big problem with the media machine that the current president's campaign exploited. I also realized after the George Zimmerman acquittal that maybe SYG, or at least the FL phrasing of it, needed to be revisited, and had a huge problem with the media images that the NRA was using throughout that trial, and that's when I cancelled my membership. I think that the way that Democrats talk about 2A issues also deserves serious revisiting.
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Old April 08, 2017, 06:30   #378
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I know. I grew up hearing the stories. It must not have felt nice to you at the time. But try at least empathizing with coming out the other end of even a public college education after the 2008 meltdown.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...enough-summer/

Public college tuition (in-state for Georgia):

1977-78: $549 annually
2006-2007: $4101 annually (I think my actual bill that school year was $4700 and change

Today: $11,986 annually.

Real value of minimum wage in 1978 in 2016 dollars: $8.00/hr
Real value of minimum wage in 2006 in 2016 dollars: $6.10/hr

I know that it must have been a shock to your system at the time, but if you're young and trying to get on your feet, you can at least see why young people would be upset with this situation?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-minimum-wage/
In fact it was not a shock to my system at all because unlike kids today I actually grew up and knew what life was about by the time I was 12. I did not expect, never mind want to be coddled and fawned over as an adult. I knuckled down and got to work, had money coming in by the time I was 14. Turned 18 and was out of the house, worked all through the '70s mowing lawns, shoveling snow, pumping gas. Paid for my own education, graduated without owing anyone a nickle. Started my own business (best job I ever had). Got married, started a family. First real wage job in '77.

College costs too much for ya? Not an issue, they have recruiting stations all over. Most of my friends never went to college, none of 'em could afford it. They went to work, driving trucks, hammering nails and pouring concrete. Many are still doing it. I did go to college, scared up a couple of scholarships that paid for it all. Except the half I spent working summers and evenings to pay for. Car? I rode a bike, or thumbed it when it was too snowy to ride.

Ya want to whine about minimum wage? How's eighty cents an hour sound to ya? Because that's what you were gonna make as an E-2 in 1969 when your ass was drafted into the army. Travel bonus? Haha, yep we got your travel bonus too including a ride on a really nice cruise ship. You'll be taking the grey one.

Yep, second hand stories about what life is really like is all you crybabies have and the blame for it sits squarely with you. Indeed, some things were different back then, for example tattoos were for punk ass little bitches unless they said 'USMC' or 'Airborne' on 'em and only women or guys who liked it up the ass got piercings. But the truth is life's tough all over and the reason you little bitches piss and moan is you have the time to do it, there isn't any more to it than that. It's a goddam shame, it really is.
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Old April 08, 2017, 09:33   #379
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In fact it was not a shock to my system at all because unlike kids today I actually grew up and knew what life was about by the time I was 12. I did not expect, never mind want to be coddled and fawned over as an adult. I knuckled down and got to work, had money coming in by the time I was 14. Turned 18 and was out of the house, worked all through the '70s mowing lawns, shoveling snow, pumping gas. Paid for my own education, graduated without owing anyone a nickle. Started my own business (best job I ever had). Got married, started a family. First real wage job in '77.

College costs too much for ya? Not an issue, they have recruiting stations all over. Most of my friends never went to college, none of 'em could afford it. They went to work, driving trucks, hammering nails and pouring concrete. Many are still doing it. I did go to college, scared up a couple of scholarships that paid for it all. Except the half I spent working summers and evenings to pay for. Car? I rode a bike, or thumbed it when it was too snowy to ride.

Ya want to whine about minimum wage? How's eighty cents an hour sound to ya? Because that's what you were gonna make as an E-2 in 1969 when your ass was drafted into the army. Travel bonus? Haha, yep we got your travel bonus too including a ride on a really nice cruise ship. You'll be taking the grey one.

Yep, second hand stories about what life is really like is all you crybabies have and the blame for it sits squarely with you. Indeed, some things were different back then, for example tattoos were for punk ass little bitches unless they said 'USMC' or 'Airborne' on 'em and only women or guys who liked it up the ass got piercings. But the truth is life's tough all over and the reason you little bitches piss and moan is you have the time to do it, there isn't any more to it than that. It's a goddam shame, it really is.
Bubba, let me ask you a question just to get your take. How is it a supposedly educated man like BIGBIRD says some of the stupidest shit possible? His proclimation that the white man has never been dicriminated against is either a troll or the man is an affront to education. What the fugg does he think affirmative action is if it isn't discrimination of white men?
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Old April 08, 2017, 15:58   #380
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Bubba, let me ask you a question just to get your take. How is it a supposedly educated man like BIGBIRD says some of the stupidest shit possible? His proclimation that the white man has never been dicriminated against is either a troll or the man is an affront to education. What the fugg does he think affirmative action is if it isn't discrimination of white men?
This is easy. Some of the stupidest people I know are educated, a few even highly. Thus proving once again that ya can't fix stupid. Even if you throw degrees at it.

I like the easy ones BJ, keep 'em comin' ...
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Old April 08, 2017, 16:06   #381
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This is easy. Some of the stupidest people I know are educated, a few even highly. Thus proving once again that ya can't fix stupid. Even if you throw degrees at it.

I like the easy ones BJ, keep 'em comin' ...
BB is the epitome of why I complain about the educated, wtf, and he paid for that...
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Old April 08, 2017, 19:03   #382
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In fact it was not a shock to my system at all because unlike kids today I actually grew up and knew what life was about by the time I was 12. I did not expect, never mind want to be coddled and fawned over as an adult. I knuckled down and got to work, had money coming in by the time I was 14. Turned 18 and was out of the house, worked all through the '70s mowing lawns, shoveling snow, pumping gas. Paid for my own education, graduated without owing anyone a nickle. Started my own business (best job I ever had). Got married, started a family. First real wage job in '77.

College costs too much for ya? Not an issue, they have recruiting stations all over. Most of my friends never went to college, none of 'em could afford it. They went to work, driving trucks, hammering nails and pouring concrete. Many are still doing it. I did go to college, scared up a couple of scholarships that paid for it all. Except the half I spent working summers and evenings to pay for. Car? I rode a bike, or thumbed it when it was too snowy to ride.

Ya want to whine about minimum wage? How's eighty cents an hour sound to ya? Because that's what you were gonna make as an E-2 in 1969 when your ass was drafted into the army. Travel bonus? Haha, yep we got your travel bonus too including a ride on a really nice cruise ship. You'll be taking the grey one.

Yep, second hand stories about what life is really like is all you crybabies have and the blame for it sits squarely with you. Indeed, some things were different back then, for example tattoos were for punk ass little bitches unless they said 'USMC' or 'Airborne' on 'em and only women or guys who liked it up the ass got piercings. But the truth is life's tough all over and the reason you little bitches piss and moan is you have the time to do it, there isn't any more to it than that. It's a goddam shame, it really is.
I too was working by the time I was 12 (noticed I said that I was building houses as a teenager) and graduated debt-free (notice I said working 60 hours a week). I was fortunate enough to get my grandfather's old F-150 when his license got taken away, and fixed the transmission in it. I no longer drive; I ride a bike (and I'm comfortable and confident riding it in up to 10 inches of snowfall!). I live in the city; I don't need a car. The tragedy here, and certainly the current president did get something right there, is that with all the HRIS systems that they have nowadays and application systems moving to online, that you have to be pretty well-connected to get called in, or have elite internship experience (and thus be able to support yourself working for free) these days. Additionally, you notice I mentioned my buddy in school who was in 1st Marine Recon Btln (note Mad Dog was leading that unit at the time). As I was finishing up my Bachelors in Middle East Studies, I thought long and hard about enlisting as a CO. He told me that would be a great asset, because the biggest problem was that so many people in our Armed Forces there were dangerously ignorant about the culture in the Middle East and that was the source of much of our mess. I told him that I was colorblind, and he said that might present a problem. He said I might be able to get a waiver due to my ability to speak Arabic, but that there was a pretty unreasonable amount of weight thrown around in every aspect of DoD, State, and IC screening process, and in the Armed Forces especially they wait till your name is on the line before they decide whether or not to screw you. I'd already had a friend get screwed over colorblindness before, and seeing things on the other side, I do feel fortunate that I was able to have the option to go to grad school on a paid tuition waiver.

What I was illustrating was that options to get a leg up existed at that time that are essentially considered to simultaneously be requirements for basic job qualifications and debt traps now.

Also, regarding Affirmative Action, are you saying that literally every other demographic besides Asian Americans deserves these remarkable disparities in unemployment and wages? Also the representation proportional to the population just doesn't add up. Numerous studies show that hiring managers more often than not hire people who look like them. These are people who have historically been underrepresented in the work force. I personally have been the subject of benefiting from said discrimination. When I was promoted to Assistant Manager at the cinema (where I worked 60 hours a week to put myself through college debt-free) they immediately started me off at $40/week higher than the woman I replaced, despite the fact that she had worked for the company for 8 years by the time she left, and I had only worked there for a little over a year at the time. (and she was an Asian American woman! *gasp*)

http://www.civilrights.org/equal-opp...eet_packet.pdf

Take for instance, the manufacturing industry that our current president promises to resurrect. I'm sure you recall the media images of the crack cocaine epidemic that primarily effected Black communities in cities and metropolitan areas. Well, in the 1970s, when the overwhelming majority of Black Americans did not have a college education due to the fact that they attended racially segregated schools, more than 70% of Black Americans worked in manufacturing jobs in urban industrial areas (this coming from William Julius Wilson's When Work Disappears, 1997). By 1987, that figure had dropped to 28%. When manufacturing began to relocate to the suburbs, only 18% of Black fathers had access to an automobile. The buses and trains don't go out there. I think the metro Atlanta area is a prime example of this. Further out in Dekalb and Gwinnett counties, Tucker, Norcross, etc.... buses and trains are hard to get by. And Cobb and Gwinnett for years have been trying (successfully) to block expansion of MARTA into their counties. I once worked with a single mother of three children who had to take three bus transfers 2.5 hours each way to get to work at a minimum wage job. She's stayed in that job for 11 years. When you have to spend that much time commuting and you have a family to look after (by yourself), you really don't have time to look for a higher-paying job.

My wife has worked in a couple of historically black performing arts organizations. Her supervisors have MBAs from HBCUs. Her first boss was one of only 12 Black executives on Wall Street before the financial collapse. From talking to them, we both learned a lot about the concept of "Black Excellence" in HBCU culture, where young people are taught to be "twice as good to get just as far." Ta-Nehisi Coates has written a very in-depth book, Between the World and Me, about growing up in America as a Black man, from the ghetto in Philadelphia to Howard University, to the upper-middle class as a successful journalist and author. He saw his son's upbringing as being relatively privileged compared to himself. Then the news of Mike Brown's death broke while they were in the room together. His son was noticeably uncomfortable and simply left the room silently. He was reminded of his friend at Howard, Prince, who had a comparatively privileged suburban upbringing, but was killed by the Prince Georges County, MD Police Department as they ran him over with their police cruiser while he was on foot because he "fit a description." Both officers were acquitted of any wrongdoing.

If you need to feel victimized, you can take your hyper-isolated interpretation of Affirmative Action without the full context of the employment situation for other demographics. This is an argument that I'd been hearing my whole life and once subscribed to myself, before I started seeing how things shook out with my HS graduating class.
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Old April 08, 2017, 19:07   #383
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Trolling.
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Old April 08, 2017, 19:26   #384
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Trolling.
Nope. Just offering a different perspective.
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Old April 08, 2017, 19:57   #385
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Nope. Just offering a different perspective.
Then you will consider this perspective.

The collapse of moderate skill manufacturing jobs in the United States has little to with manufacturing moving to suburbs. It has to do with automation and an adverse regulatory environment.

Moderate skill manufacturing jobs have been replaced by automation since the introduction of the microprocessor. One technician overseeing machines can do the work once done by tens, or even hundreds of decently paid workers. There are entire factories making things like appliances with almost no people in them. Warehouses that run in the dark. Halls full of draftsmen replaced by an engineer's desktop computer and no "blue print" is ever created. The code is sent to a machine that makes the part.

There are things computers don't do well, like orienting random parts from a bin for further assembly. Things like processing animal carcasses for food. People still do these jobs but it is low skill. And the Chinese will do these jobs for $5 per day. Americans can't compete.

Then there are dirty, dangerous industries like primary metals, industrial chemicals, ship building, basically what we might call heavy industry. These industries have left the United States for places with less severe pollution and worker safety laws. Places like China and India. Perhaps this is a good thing. I'd like to think these industries could run cleanly and safely, but that costs money. We like our $400 fifty inch TVs.

So the narrative that Blacks were driven out of manufacturing by a lack of public transportation falls apart when you consider there are perhaps half as many manufacturing jobs in the United States as there were in 1970 while we have half again as many people. Whoever told you otherwise is simply wrong.
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Old April 08, 2017, 22:00   #386
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Nope. Just offering a different perspective.
Well it's funny, you spent a lot of money and time on an education only to come up with the dumbest shit. Tell you where you failed in your studies, you let yourself believe the indoctrination. There was a time schools educated people to think and think for themselves but no longer. Now it's they tell you a story to believe and then get you to go out and look for shit to back it up.

Problem for you is the shit you have been fed is not the real lives that have been lived.
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Old April 08, 2017, 22:37   #387
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Well it's funny, you spent a lot of money and time on an education only to come up with the dumbest shit. Tell you where you failed in your studies, you let yourself believe the indoctrination. There was a time schools educated people to think and think for themselves but no longer. Now it's they tell you a story to believe and then get you to go out and look for shit to back it up.

Problem for you is the shit you have been fed is not the real lives that have been lived.
I'm offering a different perspective informed by my experiences and observations. One user said that my views were not welcome because I voted for Hillary. I offered the example of Kennesaw, GA, which is situated in Cobb County, which went for Hillary Clinton, as an example of a reason that the Democratic Party should open up to the 2A community. You're calling me dumb because they don't confirm your ideology. Now who's the "thought police?"

Again, getting back on my original entry to this thread, I believe that Democrats need to truly change the way that they talk about 2A issues and stop making their rhetoric sound like they're demonizing gun owners if we're going to move forward as a country. I also offered an opportunity for y'all to help me craft my question to a Democratic Congresswoman to confront her on this issue and present it to the DNC and DCCC. I still haven't been entertained on that point, but again, I'm entering a new forum here, so I don't expect this to be an easy effort.

On the topic of the original subject of the OP, I don't trust the current president at all, and I don't trust the current president on "2A issues" because he is a NYC-based billionaire who has seen what has worked for NYC. I think Chicago is going to be the case to watch, and whether or not he will "send in the feds." The libertarian, local-politics-first side of me says not to get too emotionally invested in what happens in Chicago, partially because I live in a very safe large city and I've seen what works for us, and I think that the people who live there should be able to dictate the direction that their city takes on this issue without interference from large, well-funded outside lobbying groups. I also offered the reason why I couldn't stomach the NRA's media machine anymore.
If you haven't lived in a large city before, it's not exactly productive to assume that you know what it is like, and it's also not productive to scapegoat an entire group of people for the problem of violent crime without being actively involved in finding a solution.

Additionally, in this era where the line is somehow getting blurred between political commentary and journalism, and some people have difficulty discerning whether ad-revenue-based shareables put out by Macedonian computer geeks and shared by Russian bots or AP-style compliant journalism that may have lazy reporting or questionable methods of printing corrections or retractions (a conversation that is going on fervently in that community) are "fake news," that a critical and reflexive analysis of one's media diet is essential. Like today's theory on Syria that Lawrence O'Donnell put out on MSNBC. Not going to link to it because I find it ethically questionable but you'll probably hear commentary about it or you can search for it if you want. While out of all the "false flag" narratives floating out there it's the one that most closely matches the one that I speculate to be the truth in the end, just because Napolitano (who I agree with on quite a lot of points) does it on Fox News doesn't make it okay; you have a huge audience that you're exposing these things to, without evidence.

Again, as I posted earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0jpXHnCLl8
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Old April 09, 2017, 01:38   #388
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Your hillary vote was either stupid or illinformed. She has a long history plain as day what she stood for and what she has done. You voted for a woman who was involved in many evil acts and so you are part of her group. Her and her husband in their Co presidency killed 80 men, women and childeren by gassing and burning them when they wouldn't give up their guns.

Just one of many of her criminal acts against us but you overlook them, hold your nose and vote for her. Then you tell us you are for the second amendment.

You come up with this full of shit story that the white man has never had institutionalized descrimination against him. You really have no idea what you are talking about or even how it effects your ability to work and be what ever you want. You don't know what opportunities were taken from you no matter what color you are by affirmative action because your best can never be reached now.

That degree you work for, it won't mean squat in the world unless you can get a government job and honestly that will be all you are worth. You will never be a builder.
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Old April 09, 2017, 05:08   #389
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Also, regarding Affirmative Action, are you saying that literally every other demographic besides Asian Americans deserves these remarkable disparities in unemployment and wages? ...
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Trolling.
Yup. I have not mentioned affirmative action anywhere on this thread.
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Old April 09, 2017, 16:19   #390
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Funny stuff here...

First of for much of this nations past there was wholesale descrimination on certain classes of White folks.

Irish are the well known example
Dirty vulgar papists
19th century America was largely Protestant. No place for Catholics.
Lilly White folks were well beneath Blacks in certain areas based on faith.

Italians, same same and so it follows with the Scots, French, etc

The Ku Klux Klan was not so much against Negros as non Prostestants
by the 1900s this did change but the notion that being White made you superior is just more Fake Newz.
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Old April 09, 2017, 23:31   #391
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Yup. I have not mentioned affirmative action anywhere on this thread.
Bawana brought that one up.
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Old April 10, 2017, 06:04   #392
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Trolling.
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Yup. I have not mentioned affirmative action anywhere on this thread.
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Bawana brought that one up.
Right, but you post quoted me, not Jim.
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Old April 10, 2017, 08:46   #393
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Bawana brought that one up.
You said the white man has never been systematically desriminated against so it obvious you had to be proven wrong.
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Old April 10, 2017, 10:25   #394
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Funny stuff here...

First of for much of this nations past there was wholesale descrimination on certain classes of White folks.

Irish are the well known example
Dirty vulgar papists
19th century America was largely Protestant. No place for Catholics.
Lilly White folks were well beneath Blacks in certain areas based on faith.

Italians, same same and so it follows with the Scots, French, etc

The Ku Klux Klan was not so much against Negros as non Prostestants
by the 1900s this did change but the notion that being White made you superior is just more Fake Newz.
Those points are certainly true, but that's not systematic discrimination based on whiteness, it's based on national origin and religion. Areas where people were scared of any outsiders that didn't fit the background of their community. Case in point, my wife's paternal grandfather, whose parents had emigrated to the U.S. in the early 1900s, but sent him back to Germany in 1932 to go to school because of the anti-"Hun" sentiment that was pervading NJ and Long Island at the time. Those modifiers about the Klan having different focuses in certain areas apply mostly to the Second Klan period (1915-1944). Post-war, Stetson Kennedy's era, anti-Civil Rights and anti-Communism.
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Old April 10, 2017, 10:30   #395
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You said the white man has never been systematically desriminated against so it obvious you had to be proven wrong.
And like I said, you have a hyper-isolated interpretation of Affirmative Action. I gave an example of how I benefited from a salary perspective over an Asian American woman with more experience who held the job before me. The other person under consideration when I was promoted was a Black woman with five years more experience than myself. My district manager said that he "wanted to get a man in there to do the job." The Black woman was offered the position of 2nd Assistant, which the way that the schedules were structured with me being salaried and her being hourly, she probably actually came out on top in terms of paycheck, but I was still higher on the pecking order than her.
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Old April 10, 2017, 10:44   #396
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And like I said, you have a hyper-isolated interpretation of Affirmative Action. I gave an example of how I benefited from a salary perspective over an Asian American woman with more experience who held the job before me. The other person under consideration when I was promoted was a Black woman with five years more experience than myself. My district manager said that he "wanted to get a man in there to do the job." The Black woman was offered the position of 2nd Assistant, which the way that the schedules were structured with me being salaried and her being hourly, she probably actually came out on top in terms of paycheck, but I was still higher on the pecking order than her.
Color doesn't equal the ability to do the work, you talk in color when it has nothing to do with a job. Affirmative action only made those who produce work harder to carry those who cant. Saw it all my life.
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Old April 10, 2017, 19:43   #397
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If I was anything other than a white male, I would be flooded with job offers at 20% more than my current wage. I would almost certainly be in a management position no matter how incompetent I might be.

Call up any corporate job website for engineers and they will have pictures of attractive young candidates. Even though white men make up 85% of such candidates, the pictures will be of "diverse" candidates. You might say "well, white men have some advantage" that needs to be offset.

If working 70 hours a week with no job security and no retirement benefits is an advantage than I guess us white guys have an advantage.

We make the first world run and society shits on our head. Our culture, our work ethic, and our genius is why you don't shit in an open sewer like the rest of the world.

Well, I fuckin' quit. Go shit in the street like your friends. I don't believe in race. It isn't a rigorous scientific concept. I am a fan of my culture. I don't care how much melanin is in your skin or where on the planet your ancestors are from. I don't care about the shape of your skull or your pelvis. If your philosophy doesn't make rice, phuck you.
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Old April 11, 2017, 15:56   #398
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Color doesn't equal the ability to do the work, you talk in color when it has nothing to do with a job. Affirmative action only made those who produce work harder to carry those who cant. Saw it all my life.
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If I was anything other than a white male, I would be flooded with job offers at 20% more than my current wage. I would almost certainly be in a management position no matter how incompetent I might be.

Call up any corporate job website for engineers and they will have pictures of attractive young candidates. Even though white men make up 85% of such candidates, the pictures will be of "diverse" candidates. You might say "well, white men have some advantage" that needs to be offset.

If working 70 hours a week with no job security and no retirement benefits is an advantage than I guess us white guys have an advantage.

We make the first world run and society shits on our head. Our culture, our work ethic, and our genius is why you don't shit in an open sewer like the rest of the world.

Well, I fuckin' quit. Go shit in the street like your friends. I don't believe in race. It isn't a rigorous scientific concept. I am a fan of my culture. I don't care how much melanin is in your skin or where on the planet your ancestors are from. I don't care about the shape of your skull or your pelvis. If your philosophy doesn't make rice, phuck you.
70 hour work weeks with no job security and no retirement benefits are not exclusive to white men. This is a shift toward employer-powered exploitation of the worker, note that I identified PATCO and NAFTA as points where that happened (points where the president and I would seemingly agree in terms of message). My generation is full of people who either (as I mentioned) have to work for free on an internship to get the fast-track to a permanent job, have to work a job totally unrelated to their education (i.e. in the restaurant industry) for more money on an instant gratification timeline, or are strung along on 4-year 1099 arrangements for what rightfully fits the definition of salaried work (as myself), or get conned into being stretched out for temp term after temp term for 7 years. Also note the example of Black single mothers working minimum wage jobs that I pointed to earlier.

Every older person who I know who has looked for a job recently has had to ask their kids for help with the resume and application process. It is simply very different than it was thirty years ago. HRIS has complicated things and made things into a data algorithm before they consider calling you in. You should not be too proud to admit that something is outside of your skillset or experience.

And my larger point is this: Unless you actually have lived through being a young Black man in America, you do not know what it is like to be a young Black man in America. And to that point, neither do I, but I'm willing to listen. As Newt Gingrich said:

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/07...ck-in-america/
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Old April 11, 2017, 16:03   #399
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Additionally, BJ mentioned affirmative action causing harder workers to have to pull the weight of the rest of the team.....some of the worst employees that I ever had were white kids who had great interviews, but who gave very good reason to get rid of them very quickly. You have plenty of people, especially in low-wage jobs, who do just enough to not get fired, and that is a phenomenon that happens across all national, ethnic, and racial backgrounds.
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Old April 11, 2017, 17:09   #400
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Additionally, BJ mentioned affirmative action causing harder workers to have to pull the weight of the rest of the team.....some of the worst employees that I ever had were white kids who had great interviews, but who gave very good reason to get rid of them very quickly. You have plenty of people, especially in low-wage jobs, who do just enough to not get fired, and that is a phenomenon that happens across all national, ethnic, and racial backgrounds.
You sure talk a lot and just spew the same old democrat talking points. It's ok though because you have received your indoctrination and paid for it. I think what you can't see or don't realize is by the time you see the truth you will have wasted so many years that you will have to work all your life. That means you will never know real freedom and you will always have a boss.
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