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Old June 19, 2018, 21:46   #1
raubvogel
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Help needed on the bump stock ban

I did go to the website that is requesting for comments (ATF 2017R-22, https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...k-type-devices) and have to say the comments against it are just pathetic. The reason a lot of them are being ignored is because they do not address the crux of the issue:

Does the bump stock cause the firearm to shoot multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger?

I have been writing my reply for weeks. In it I argue the trigger is pulled once per firing cycle. But, then there is the "Atkins Accelerator" which ATF deemed a machine gun before.

I need help: what makes the bump stock different from the Atkins Accelerator? And how does it differ from bump firing?
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Old June 19, 2018, 23:05   #2
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Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
I did go to the website that is requesting for comments (ATF 2017R-22, https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...k-type-devices) and have to say the comments against it are just pathetic. The reason a lot of them are being ignored is because they do not address the crux of the issue:

Does the bump stock cause the firearm to shoot multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger?

I have been writing my reply for weeks. In it I argue the trigger is pulled once per firing cycle. But, then there is the "Atkins Accelerator" which ATF deemed a machine gun before.

I need help: what makes the bump stock different from the Atkins Accelerator? And how does it differ from bump firing?
The Atkins device uses an internal coil spring to return the carriage that holds the action against the trigger finger.
ATF deemed the spring the actual NFA component thus setting the stage for the springless slide fire stocks
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Old June 19, 2018, 23:41   #3
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The Atkins device uses an internal coil spring to return the carriage that holds the action against the trigger finger.
ATF deemed the spring the actual NFA component thus setting the stage for the springless slide fire stocks
therefore,

bump stocks are designed and intended to fully comply with previous declarations/regulations;

and whereas bump stocks are not firearms,
and whereas bump stocks fire zero shots per (nonexistent) trigger pull, or otherwise;

then "...shall not be infringed..." exclusion is fully applicable, bogus legal presumptions to the contrary, not with standing.
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Old June 20, 2018, 00:10   #4
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Will writing the ATF on this, get ones name placed upon a list of potential owners of bump stocks?????

Its not as if they will listen to us mere peasants on any of this.
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Old June 20, 2018, 00:34   #5
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Thanks for the replies. One of the main issues I have is that I do not have a bumpstock so I have never understood how it really worked. But, after your replies I actually read the patent (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8127658). Like any good patent it has lots of vagueness (body part and another body part; what is the relationship between them?), but it now makes sense: like bump fire you are using your non firing elbow as the spring! All the bumpfire does is force the rifle to move in one line.

Letter done. Now to drop it at the maildrop first thing tomorrow.
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Old June 20, 2018, 00:35   #6
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Originally Posted by yellowhand View Post
Will writing the ATF on this, get ones name placed upon a list of potential owners of bump stocks?????

Its not as if they will listen to us mere peasants on any of this.
No more so than those who commented on the 7n6 ban and the proposal to prohibit SS109. The response was so overwhelming for the SS109 not to be restricted that ATFE walked it back, yeah the bureau listens YH

again, ATFE isn't the bad guys in this. If anyone blame Trump's pet Campuchin AG Sessions who fed him the song and dance he could make it work.


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Old June 20, 2018, 00:50   #7
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No more so than those who commented on the 7n6 ban and the proposal to prohibit SS109. The response was so overwhelming for the SS109 not to be restricted that ATFE walked it back, yeah the bureau listens YH

again, ATFE isn't the bad guys in this. If anyone blame blame Trump's pet Campuchin AG Sessions who fed him the song and dance he could make it work.
On a related note, my issue with many of the replies for the bumpstock is that they do not focus on the reason ATF is asking for comments: does the bumpstock make a semiauto into a machinegun? Second and 5th amendments and whether ATF can make a call are not the main topics.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:24   #8
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I have zero use for, or desire to own, a "bump stock" (well, maybe to kiss off the libtards), but I hope they are not banned, because that's just the start.
First ban the bumpstock, then ban the guns they go on.

I may have to find one!
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:29   #9
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Too bad ATF doesn't have an online survey, but maybe it's better if they don't.
More libs than Freedom Lovers have the time to surf the web looking for it from their parents' basement, and they probably don't know how to use a pen&paper, or how to use the Postal System, and would shit themselves to find out they have to actually PAY the Government to use the mail!
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Old June 20, 2018, 11:13   #10
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Florida ,with a rhino repub governor banned them with no talk of compensation
So for me the point is mute.i just hope more states don't go this route I'm suprised the libs don't ignore the pres and congress election and put all their money in governorship .
That sob is running for congress too .i know I will never vote for Rick Scott
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Old June 20, 2018, 16:49   #11
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Florida ,with a rhino repub governor banned them with no talk of compensation
So for me the point is mute.i just hope more states don't go this route I'm suprised the libs don't ignore the pres and congress election and put all their money in governorship .
That sob is running for congress too .i know I will never vote for Rick Scott
Bloomberg has realized he can't do National so now it's State to State incremental shit
Scott is trash. He folded to try and get that Senate seat
this is a classic example of when you either vote third party or not at all.
Ricky proved where his worth was, really no different than any Progressive Democrat, any vote for Scott can be taken as support for national level gun control policy. Yeah, he will do it again and again

Faggot Hogg and the lesbo brigade scream
he will bow to them counting on Republicans to back him no matter how much ass he displays
sometimes you need to toss these jackasses to the curb, a lesson to the RNC
even if that results in a Liberal victory dance.
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Old June 20, 2018, 18:02   #12
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I have voiced my disdain for the new regulation.

Regulation in this sense is lawmaking without Congress.

I don't care what list they want to add me to. I'm sure I'm already on several.

I do not own a bumpstock. I think they're stupid, but I still used my 1A right to defend my 2nd.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:10   #13
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I am not sure that we have enough ammo to support a general, MG ownership situation, or bump stocks anyway. Dumbasses, who hate Fudds, would have pissed it all away by now.

I think that the Hughes Amendment of '86, has actually saved our asses.

The arsenals back in '08 had a hard time keeping up with demand in the Middle East for ammo for their MG's, let alone our demands.

Semi autos have saved gunowners from a lack of ammo and the resulting Hillary/Obama Communism.

This is another example of unintended consequences, as a result of bad decisions.
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Old June 21, 2018, 13:23   #14
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I don't agree with that at all.

'86 FOPA was just as much of an infringement on our rights as 1934 NFA.
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Old June 22, 2018, 12:05   #15
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your opposite elbow is not a spring. your deliberate action in repetitively pulling the trigger forward into the stationary finger is what makes the trigger "actuate". and fires the gun. it is a deliberate and wilful act of the operator in separate repetitive motions. not a "single pull", by any means.
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Old June 22, 2018, 18:18   #16
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your opposite elbow is not a spring. your deliberate action in repetitively pulling the trigger forward into the stationary finger is what makes the trigger "actuate". and fires the gun. it is a deliberate and wilful act of the operator in separate repetitive motions. not a "single pull", by any means.
and furthermore the intended design and function of bump stocks, is to comply with previous rules, with specificity; legal presumptions to the contrary not with standing.
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Old June 23, 2018, 00:36   #17
raubvogel
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Originally Posted by justashooter View Post
your opposite elbow is not a spring. your deliberate action in repetitively pulling the trigger forward into the stationary finger is what makes the trigger "actuate". and fires the gun. it is a deliberate and wilful act of the operator in separate repetitive motions. not a "single pull", by any means.
http://jpfo.org/pdf03/bump-stock.pdf might explain better than I can, but I thought that if you are not holding onto the grip and press the trigger while holding the rifle with the other hand, the recoil will bring the entire rifle backwards, which causes the trigger to reset. Then the hand holding the rifle pushes it forward until the trigger, pressed against the trigger finger, is pressed enough until it fires. It is a deliberate and willful act: you finger is pressing the trigger; just look form the rifle's standpoint.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old June 23, 2018, 10:14   #18
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Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
http://jpfo.org/pdf03/bump-stock.pdf might explain better than I can, but I thought that if you are not holding onto the grip and press the trigger while holding the rifle with the other hand, the recoil will bring the entire rifle backwards, which causes the trigger to reset. Then the hand holding the rifle pushes it forward until the trigger, pressed against the trigger finger, is pressed enough until it fires. It is a deliberate and willful act: you finger is pressing the trigger; just look form the rifle's standpoint.
they know that and simply do not care:
they are moving forward on the legal presumption that the intent involved is to somehow not comply with previous rulings, creating a new legal redifinition of NOTAfirearm bumpstocks as "illegal machine guns".

last time was over a 14 inch piece of old shoe string, this time it is over a chunk of thermo plastic;
these agency flunkies are power junkies, they are never going to stop pushing, they will have to be stopped, by force.

this is not about bumpstocks, it is about infringing 2A civil rights, but with no 28th amendment repeal, which they know they cannot get passed without starting the third war for american independence.

google image search "home made bumpstock", or "cheap bumpstock"--





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