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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapon Specific Forums » The FN Files » BOOM !! (long-slot muzzle device failure)
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Topic: BOOM !! (long-slot muzzle device failure)
wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:31    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #1









Last edited by wall.e on November 21, 2009 at 19:09


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jugrunner
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:34    Click Here to See the Profile for jugrunner   Click here to Send jugrunner a Private Message   Click Here to Email jugrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #2

looks like it used to be an STG ... ?

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brunop
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:35    Click Here to See the Profile for brunop   Click here to Send brunop a Private Message   Click Here to Email brunop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #3

what happened there?

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jugrunner
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:36    Click Here to See the Profile for jugrunner   Click here to Send jugrunner a Private Message   Click Here to Email jugrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #4

plugged the muzzle with what ?

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Sig220
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:38    Click Here to See the Profile for Sig220   Click here to Send Sig220 a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sig220     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #5

That pic is so large, I lost my train of thought just going from one side to the other.



Okay on the right it looks like somebody plugged the muzzle and it made a nice banana peel, but what is that all over the carpet/floor/concrete on the left??


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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:39    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #6

heh down to size



,



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L Haney
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:40    Click Here to See the Profile for L Haney   Click here to Send L Haney a Private Message   Click Here to Email L Haney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #7

Yep, the Google Earth picture don't help much.


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DYNOMIKE
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:40    Click Here to See the Profile for DYNOMIKE   Click here to Send DYNOMIKE a Private Message   Click Here to Email DYNOMIKE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #8

quote:
Originally posted by Sig220
That pic is so large, I lost my train of thought just going from one side to the other.



Okay on the right it looks like somebody plugged the muzzle and it made a nice banana peel, but what is that all over the carpet/floor/concrete on the left??



NO shit, might could make the PIC a bit bigger next time..

Looks like a Plugged Barrel to me as well??

Whew, those are much better.. Looks like a nice rifle, now what's the SCOOP?


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Sig220
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:43    Click Here to See the Profile for Sig220   Click here to Send Sig220 a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sig220     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #9

The smaller pics helped out a lot.......at first I thought somebodys finger was in the muzzle and that was blood on the floor .

Looks like a Browning long type flash hider, which if they are off by a little the projectile will hit it on its way downrange.......so maybe not plugged. Hope this happened at a range, and not in the garage!!!


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jeffrey
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:46    Click Here to See the Profile for jeffrey   Click here to Send jeffrey a Private Message   Click Here to Email jeffrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #10

Focus isn't so great, but it looks more like a Brit 3 slot or a Browning style long flash hider ????
What else was damaged besides the fh?



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denny
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:47    Click Here to See the Profile for denny   Click here to Send denny a Private Message   Click Here to Email denny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #11

Ok guys - remember all the talk about the Match flash Hiders on G fals that peeled back .
This looks like the same only this looks like one of the US made comps ???
It's structual fatigue - not being plugged. Thats my guess.
Denny



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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:51    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #12

Just got this pic thing figured out..
It's a para I built about a year ago had about 2500 rounds through it went to the range today was on my third mag when it happened. Try to get some better pics.



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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 01:56    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #13

Yeah DSA short with the long brown flashhider, gonna try to call them Mon. and see how they attach them ,the barrel looks O.K. I,ll take it down tonight just to make sure.


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Sig220
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:03    Click Here to See the Profile for Sig220   Click here to Send Sig220 a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sig220     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #14

Yes, the barrel does look good......but then again we can only see the pics!! Any chance it got a little loose on ya?? The flash hider I mean??

So, I can sleep at ease tonight....this was a barrel you got from DSA with the flash hider already attached, correct? Whats the barrel length without the banana peel??


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jugrunner
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:04    Click Here to See the Profile for jugrunner   Click here to Send jugrunner a Private Message   Click Here to Email jugrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #15

glad you're Ok ...

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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:10    Click Here to See the Profile for humpback   Click here to Send humpback a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #16

Squib? Ammo from 'Nam or GWOT? Mud? Water? What?


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DYNOMIKE
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:14    Click Here to See the Profile for DYNOMIKE   Click here to Send DYNOMIKE a Private Message   Click Here to Email DYNOMIKE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #17

quote:
Originally posted by humpback
Squib? Ammo from 'Nam or GWOT? Mud? Water? What?


Just a Bad F/H I think??
After Siggy said what he said I recalled hearing about this from time to time..


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jugrunner
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:15    Click Here to See the Profile for jugrunner   Click here to Send jugrunner a Private Message   Click Here to Email jugrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #18

hey wall.e ... I know where you can get a new one ...

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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:15    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #19

DSA 13inch compact with long brown flashhider. Hider was tight, was using Brit 7.62 surplus my buddy was to my right about 10 ft. away scared the hell out of both of us.


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Sig220
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:20    Click Here to See the Profile for Sig220   Click here to Send Sig220 a Private Message   Click Here to Email Sig220     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #20

Only two reasons why she would let loose like that on ya. Either it got loose on the end of the barrel or the metal was crap and gave up on the pressures.

Being as you said it wasn't loose, I would have to go with the second one.

Have you grabbed whats left of the FH and tried to rotate it???


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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:28    Click Here to See the Profile for bykerhd   Click here to Send bykerhd a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #21

I hope the barrel is ok.
You'll need to have another permanently attached flashhider or brake installed again on that barrel to maintain it at over 16" to stay legal.
I'm not sure what flashhiders will do that for you. Except another one of the same type flashhiders again. About anything else will be too short I bet.
Unless you have something made up ?
Good luck.



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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 02:57    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #22

Yeah F.H. is still tight,checked no copper,lead shavings makes me sick just looking at it, any idea how DSA attaches them?


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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:05    Click Here to See the Profile for Mosin Guy   Click here to Send Mosin Guy a Private Message   Click Here to Email Mosin Guy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #23

silver soldering


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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:05    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #24

Didn't someone have a long hider like what was on the car15 that would mount on a Fal?


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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:15    Click Here to See the Profile for Scott V2   Click here to Send Scott V2 a Private Message   Click Here to Email Scott V2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #25

your flash hider is probably silver soldered on.

that damage is nothing to worry about. Put a new one on and go back to the range


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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:23    Click Here to See the Profile for garandguy10   Click here to Send garandguy10 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #26

if DSA built it, have DSA fix it. The barrel will need to be refinished due to the heat from the silver soldering, unless it is a registered SBR.


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Story
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Old Post November 21, 2009 03:37    Click Here to See the Profile for Story   Click here to Send Story a Private Message   Click Here to Email Story     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #27

When you take the flower petaled FH off, even up the splayed pieces and sell it on ARFCOM as a 'breeching device'

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Old Post November 21, 2009 12:53    Click Here to See the Profile for TerryN   Click here to Send TerryN a Private Message   Click Here to Email TerryN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #28

What? There's a rifle in that HUGE freakin' picture somewhere? I couldn't find it.

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alant
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Old Post November 21, 2009 14:08    Click Here to See the Profile for alant   Click here to Send alant a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #29

Wall.e, why dontcha edit that first post and put in a resized picture?

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jjjxlr8
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Old Post November 21, 2009 15:41    Click Here to See the Profile for jjjxlr8   Click here to Send jjjxlr8 a Private Message   Click Here to Email jjjxlr8     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #30

Maybe this is another MIM (injection molded metal) piece...


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chromestarhustler
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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:06    Click Here to See the Profile for chromestarhustler   Click here to Send chromestarhustler a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #31

or maybe the piece was weakened from the gaint fire ball that engulf it each time you fire it from a short barrel rifle and it gave out likeing flash the typical banana peeling flashhider just quicker

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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:19    Click Here to See the Profile for gunnut1   Click here to Send gunnut1 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gunnut1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #32

quote:
Originally posted by wall.e
DSA 13inch compact with long brown flashhider. Hider was tight, was using Brit 7.62 surplus my buddy was to my right about 10 ft. away scared the hell out of both of us.


Send it back to DSA and get a combo device to put on it.


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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:29    Click Here to See the Profile for gunnut1   Click here to Send gunnut1 a Private Message   Click Here to Email gunnut1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #33

quote:
Originally posted by Story
When you take the flower petaled FH off, even up the splayed pieces and sell it on ARFCOM as a 'breeching device'




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bykerhd
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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:32    Click Here to See the Profile for bykerhd   Click here to Send bykerhd a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #34

That's 1100 degree solder holding what's left of that thing on.
As required by the FEDs to be considered permanent.
MAPP or acetylene to heat it up and get it off.
LEFT hand thread I would imagine. Clockwise to unscrew it.
I'm betting that the only thing DSA would have that would keep your barrel at legal length is going to be another one of the same flashhiders.

You might check with moses to see what he either has, or could make for you for a muzzle device.
I'm sure he could also remove the remains of yours, install something new and refinish the front section of your barrel.



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armed1
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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:39    Click Here to See the Profile for armed1   Click here to Send armed1 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #35

quote:
Originally posted by Story
When you take the flower petaled FH off, even up the splayed pieces and sell it on ARFCOM as a 'breeching device'





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J. Armstrong
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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:47    Click Here to See the Profile for J. Armstrong   Click here to Send J. Armstrong a Private Message   Click Here to Email J. Armstrong     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #36

quote:
Originally posted by chromestarhustler
or maybe the piece was weakened from the gaint fire ball that engulf it each time you fire it from a short barrel rifle and it gave out likeing flash the typical banana peeling flashhider just quicker


My first thought, too. Those long slots with the tapered, pointed ends are notorious stress points even on the early forged Belgians. all that high pressure gas ( That really OUGHT to be used to propel the dang boolit ) sure can't be helping.

As bykerhd mentioned, I'd see if moses can whip you up a long version of his "Hurricane" open slot - voila', permanent solution.

Not to flame ya, but I could never figure out chopping a barrel back to 12 0r 13 inches, lose so much ballistics, then put another 3 or 4 inches of FH back on it so's the batboys are happy and your muzzle signature is probably not all that much better than a nekkid 16 inch would have been in the first place. JMHO, though, and if you like 'em that way, that's still cool


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Last edited by J. Armstrong on November 21, 2009 at 16:52


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EinheitElf
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Old Post November 21, 2009 17:12    Click Here to See the Profile for EinheitElf   Click here to Send EinheitElf a Private Message   Click Here to Email EinheitElf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #37

I agree on trying a CAR 15 type FH, the looong one with the slots at the end, they are open at the muzzle so there should be no way for a bullet to hit any part of it unless it goes sideways riight out of the gate. I was going to try one on a project kit I have .

Otherwise get a new receiver and make a FAL pistol and impress everyone with the HUGE fireball that comes out past a short STOLL FH!!!

Glad you are ok....I had a M14 style FH on my Mini14 do that to me BUT it 'banana-d the at the front sight area and the muzzle end was fine. I put it down to weak stainless steel-not done right-and it was a Feather Enterprises if I remember right.......yea i have owned my Stainless mini 14 'A-Team style' since being 18 yrs old..there I came out of the closet!


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FAL freek
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Old Post November 21, 2009 17:12    Click Here to See the Profile for FAL freek   Click here to Send FAL freek a Private Message   Click Here to Email FAL freek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #38

quote:
Originally posted by Sig220
Only two reasons why she would let loose like that on ya. Either it got loose on the end of the barrel or the metal was crap and gave up on the pressures.

Being as you said it wasn't loose, I would have to go with the second one.

Have you grabbed whats left of the FH and tried to rotate it???

Maybe not, had the same thing happen to me with my Belgian import that only had 150 rounds through it. Just a weak design. Picked up a couple spares in case it happens again.


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millersm99
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Old Post November 21, 2009 17:33    Click Here to See the Profile for millersm99   Click here to Send millersm99 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #39

Those long US made PSL flashiders used to do that too. Happened to me.

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wall.e
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Old Post November 21, 2009 19:32    Click Here to See the Profile for wall.e   Click here to Send wall.e a Private Message   Click Here to Email wall.e     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #40

Put some better pics up,I think I"ll try one different. If moses has a different type can he post a pic?

Hard to believe but theres not much flash signature with it as far as accuracy it surprised me how well it groups at 100yd (about 3inch) 200yd (about 4-5 inch) 300yd gets buckshot pattern.

Man, makes me sick just finished ggiilleee rail and ejector mods on it..running great then this.


Last edited by wall.e on November 21, 2009 at 19:43


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W.E.G.
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Old Post November 21, 2009 19:49    Click Here to See the Profile for W.E.G.   Click here to Send W.E.G. a Private Message   Click Here to Email W.E.G.   Visit W.E.G.'s homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #41

IMAGE SHACK IS TEH SUK!!!

Attachment: muzzle device banana wall.e compilation.jpg
This has been downloaded 285 time(s).

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W.E.G.
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Old Post November 21, 2009 19:54    Click Here to See the Profile for W.E.G.   Click here to Send W.E.G. a Private Message   Click Here to Email W.E.G.   Visit W.E.G.'s homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #42

More long-slot FAIL.








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Gun Dr.
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Old Post November 21, 2009 20:15    Click Here to See the Profile for Gun Dr.   Click here to Send Gun Dr. a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #43

As sated above, those long flash hiders peeled like that even on the Belgium models. Years ago I had Gun South warranty two of them that looked just like that. At the time they were shipping the shorter grenade launcher type as a replacement because there were quite a few people having problems.

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humpback
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Old Post November 21, 2009 20:43    Click Here to See the Profile for humpback   Click here to Send humpback a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #44

Very interesting! Thanks to you guys who put up the extra pictures, and let some of us in on this problem with the long FH. I was never aware of this issue before now. I've always liked the look of the Long FH, but I've never owned one. I don't think I ever will now. Thanks again for the valuable info.

When he posted the first picture, I thought it was the actual barrel and part of the FH that had split.



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J. Armstrong
Wingmanjim
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Old Post November 21, 2009 20:47    Click Here to See the Profile for J. Armstrong   Click here to Send J. Armstrong a Private Message   Click Here to Email J. Armstrong     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #45

quote:
Originally posted by Gun Dr.
As sated above, those long flash hiders peeled like that even on the Belgium models. Years ago I had Gun South warranty two of them that looked just like that. At the time they were shipping the shorter grenade launcher type as a replacement because there were quite a few people having problems.


There was a tech bulletin regarding that conversion. Some combo devices with RH threads ( as most of the commercial long FH imports were ) were made up, they incorporated a roll pin to prevent them from being loosened by the muzzle gasses. If anyone needs a copy of the bulletin ( well, actually a copy of a copy of a copy ) pm me. It's an easy conversion with the proviso that the rh threaded FHs are fairly scarce. ( sounds like a project for moses !!!!)

FAL Freek, try to find the earlier production FHs as used on the G series - that production was forged, which helps considerably. The later type 3 imports had cast FHs ----- stinkers !!!!!!!


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MBR29
DSArms

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Old Post November 22, 2009 15:32    Click Here to See the Profile for MBR29   Click here to Send MBR29 a Private Message   Click Here to Email MBR29   Visit MBR29's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #46

We offer the long slot Browning type because of market demand and to have a XM style FAL just like the AR companies do, and we use a different steel to make it along with a special heat treat process but.....

As WEG shown the design is weaker even after taking these steps. Call Nicole for an RMA#

847-277-7258

Thanks



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