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The FAL Files Forums  »  Weapon Specific Forums » The L1A1, inch-pattern, and Indian Files » Enfield L1A1
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Topic: Enfield L1A1
Tara31
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FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 20, 2009 12:20    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #1

Hello,

New to forum. I have an an original Enfield L1A1.
Have been reading the threads with much interest!!!

I am a military rifle competion shooter (Belgium, France, Luxemburg and Germany).

And here goes my first question (hope to be able to contribute with answers as well in future ...)
How can one define the size of the installed locking shoulder. Is it posible without removing it from the rifle?

Cheers,

Marc



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Clonehead
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FALaholic # 27461

Old Post November 20, 2009 15:17    Click Here to See the Profile for Clonehead   Click here to Send Clonehead a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #2

Welcome to the FAL Files Tara31. At some point could you post a picture of your L1A1? The folks on here are a curious bunch, in more ways than one!

I do not believe you can accurately measure the size of the LS without removing it from the receiver. As easy as it is to remove, this shouldn't be too big of an issue.



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MAINER
Curio & Relic
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FALaholic # 18465

Old Post November 20, 2009 16:46    Click Here to See the Profile for MAINER   Click here to Send MAINER a Private Message   Click Here to Email MAINER     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #3

First; Welcome to the Fal Files!

Second; We hate you! Our L1A1's lack the origional receiver. Close to origional is the best we can get without paying some hefty fees for the privilage.

Third; Curious why you want to measure the LS? More important would be the headspace measurement, accomplished with headspace gages.

AS Clonehead says, the only way to measure the LS would be to remove it, as far as I know. Something I wouldn't do unless the headspace was excessive, requiring a change.

British L1A1's Locking shoulders were usually stamped with a code such as (OY). I'm not sure if this refers to the size of the LS or not.


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W.E.G.
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Old Post November 20, 2009 17:03    Click Here to See the Profile for W.E.G.   Click here to Send W.E.G. a Private Message   Click Here to Email W.E.G.   Visit W.E.G.'s homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #4

Why do you want to know the nominal size?

What useful information would you derive?


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owlcreekok
Chronosycix Infindubulum
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Old Post November 20, 2009 17:09    Click Here to See the Profile for owlcreekok   Click here to Send owlcreekok a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #5

quote:
Originally posted by Tara31
How can one define the size of the installed locking shoulder. Is it posible without removing it from the rifle?

Cheers,

Marc




Welcome Marc.

You'll have to remove it to know for sure what size it is.


J


__________________
"It is necessary for the welfare of the nation that men's lives be based on the principles of the Bible. No man, educated or uneducated, can afford to be ignorant of the Bible."

- Theodore Roosevelt - (1858-1919) 26th President of the United States

FOUNDER- Free ggiilliiee Foundation hehe


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 20, 2009 18:06    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #6

Thanks for the warm welcome and the interest shown.

If someone tells me how to post pictures ... you will get them.

I know you guys hate me!!! Please bear in mind however ... that it is not my fault that I was "Made in Belgium"

My L1A1 closes on the NO-GO, but not on the FIELD gauge (.308 Winchester gauges). (Same as my M14's). And no need to change the locking shoulder for the time being. I was just curious.

To hate me even more ... I have the L2A2 SUIT that goes with it!

And for you guys to wish me to hell... I bought it ... brand new (cherry-picking it from à batch of 3 in the shop) ... 1 month ago for ... 595.00€ (Should be around 880.00$). And 325.00 € for the SUIT. I let you work out the $!!!

Only shot it once, at 100m, prone position with 1907 sling. 5 shots gave an H=37mm and an L=29mm with the standard metal sights.
I think I eventually might keep the thing!!!

But seriously … we over here know what you guys have to endure … and we are concerned as well. Impossible to get guns/parts over from the US to us for the moment… (that’s a nice one “us to us”).

Something tells me I’m going to like this forum!

And apologies for my “English” … I’m from the northern part of Belgium, Flanders, so my native language is Flemish (which is the same as Dutch).

Cheers,

Marc



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owlcreekok
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Old Post November 20, 2009 18:16    Click Here to See the Profile for owlcreekok   Click here to Send owlcreekok a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #7

Leave the light on.

Some of us may decide to join you over there.

Hell, my cousin married a Belgian guy. I met him once when I was 17. That was only 35 years ago. I was once told that his surname means "Lives under the bridge"



__________________
"It is necessary for the welfare of the nation that men's lives be based on the principles of the Bible. No man, educated or uneducated, can afford to be ignorant of the Bible."

- Theodore Roosevelt - (1858-1919) 26th President of the United States

FOUNDER- Free ggiilliiee Foundation hehe


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Tara31
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FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 20, 2009 18:26    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #8

I just give it a try ...



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hagar
Will plunder for food!
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Old Post November 20, 2009 18:27    Click Here to See the Profile for hagar   Click here to Send hagar a Private Message   Click Here to Email hagar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #9

Baie welkom! Hier is n paar Suid Afrikaners, Belge en kaask, er Hollanders op die forum. Ek kan Flaams redelik goed verstaan. Dit is nader aan Afrikaans as Hollands.

En ja, pos fotos as jy kan! Ek self het 3 L1A1's, 2 met Imbel receivers en die ander een n Argenteinse.


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The Americans fight for a free world, the English mostly for honor and glory and medals, the French and Canadians decide too late that they have to participate. The Italians are too scared to fight; the Russians have no choice. The Germans for the Fatherland. The Boers? Those sons of bitches fight for the hell of it!” - American General, George “Guts and Glory” Patton


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Gopher
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Old Post November 20, 2009 20:21    Click Here to See the Profile for Gopher   Click here to Send Gopher a Private Message   Click Here to Email Gopher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #10

Welcome to the forums. If you can get a copy of Skennerton's "S.L.R." book on the Aussie FAL page 99 give a breakdown of the possible sizes and markings. The technical brochure from SAF Lithgow gives the complete sizing range of LS on page 41. Replacement procedure starts on page 46. This info might let you know the size of the existing LS.

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FUUN063
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Old Post November 20, 2009 21:40    Click Here to See the Profile for FUUN063   Click here to Send FUUN063 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #11

Hallo und Hagar! sdfn lkall. kjlngla gjoi[er mksdl l;aj'jjg as'k'
a'mj jg iopvc .mde;jpma .;o jfpo aweorn lsj[' l'a WTF!

Nice Rifle, though and welcome Tara.

Leland



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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 20, 2009 21:56    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #12

@ Hagar

Ja, ik begrijp je wel ... Vlaams en Afrikaans is "ongeveer" hetzelfde.
But maybe safer to communicate in English for the future ???

@ Leland

I'm affraid I losts the plot there .... I'm from Belgium ... not from Mars!!
And thanks for the welcome!!



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Tara31
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FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 20, 2009 22:07    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #13

quote:
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Leave the light on.

Some of us may decide to join you over there.

Hell, my cousin married a Belgian guy. I met him once when I was 17. That was only 35 years ago. I was once told that his surname means "Lives under the bridge"




I"ll leave the lights on ... for sure !!!
Euhhh ... when you come over ... i'll want you to put your pockets full of AR15 and M14 spare parts!!!
WE NEED THEM OVER HERE!!!



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MajHenryWest
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Old Post November 20, 2009 22:51    Click Here to See the Profile for MajHenryWest   Click here to Send MajHenryWest a Private Message   Click Here to Email MajHenryWest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #14

Marc;

Welcome to the falfiles.

What type of case is that underneath your rifle?

Thanks.


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MAINER
Curio & Relic
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Old Post November 21, 2009 16:11    Click Here to See the Profile for MAINER   Click here to Send MAINER a Private Message   Click Here to Email MAINER     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #15

Quote;
"Only shot it once, at 100m, prone position with 1907 sling. 5 shots gave an H=37mm and an L=29mm with the standard metal sights.
I think I eventually might keep the thing!!! "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

37mm X 29 mm = 1.46" X 1.14"
(Inch system will not die as long as I live)

Nothing wrong with that rifle, nor the shooter!

A Flemish lady is a close friend of my family. Local fellow liberated her in "45" and brought her home with him. She has some interesting stories to tell of those days. Not sure what town her family is from.


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"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 21, 2009 17:20    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #16

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MajHenryWest
Marc;

Welcome to the falfiles.

What type of case is that underneath your rifle?

Thanks.
[/QUOTE

It's a StormCase M3220

Cheers,

Marc



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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 21, 2009 17:34    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #17

quote:
Originally posted by MAINER
Quote;
"Only shot it once, at 100m, prone position with 1907 sling. 5 shots gave an H=37mm and an L=29mm with the standard metal sights.
I think I eventually might keep the thing!!! "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

37mm X 29 mm = 1.46" X 1.14"
(Inch system will not die as long as I live)

Nothing wrong with that rifle, nor the shooter!




Yes ... the rifle is indeed ok ... and it can do better. I'm very impressed ... I didn't expect it to be that accurate.
It's just the shooter now that needs a bit of training with it
The intention is to shoot the French National Military rifle competition with it next season ... and to grab a podium place!
For those interested, the load used:
Remington cases, new, out of the bag without resizing
Sierra 150gr JHPBT
WLR
44.5gr of Alliant Reloder 15
OAL 2.775''

Had no opportunity yet to put them trough the chronograph, so no idea about velocity!


Cheers,

Marc



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NZ L1A1 Collector
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FALaholic # 45

Old Post November 23, 2009 08:29    Click Here to See the Profile for NZ L1A1 Collector   Click here to Send NZ L1A1 Collector a Private Message   Click Here to Email NZ L1A1 Collector   Visit NZ L1A1 Collector's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #18

quote:
Originally posted by Tara31
How can one define the size of the installed locking shoulder. Is it posible without removing it from the rifle?



I can tell you what size locking shoulder is installed in your rifle, can you let me know what numbers/letters or stars are stamped on the large flat side of the locking shoulder (Right side)


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NEW ZEALAND


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 23, 2009 10:50    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #19

OK!
I'll look at it tonight and let you know.
I can tell you already that there is a "1" stamped on it and someting else .


__________________
Cheers,
Marc (Be)

CTMC (Cercle de Tir Multicalibre Compétition) (Be)
STTN (Société de Tir des Terres Noires) (Fr)
STH (Société de Tir Hesperange) (Lu)
CTCAM (Cercle de Tir des Cheminots d'Amiens Métropole) (Fr)

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact (George Elliot)


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hagar
Will plunder for food!
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Old Post November 23, 2009 13:56    Click Here to See the Profile for hagar   Click here to Send hagar a Private Message   Click Here to Email hagar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #20

Tell us more about the competitions you shoot. Here in the US I shoot highpower matches, either 50 or 80 rounds. We start with offhand at 200 yards, 10 or 20 shots, 10 or 20 rapid sitting, 10 or 20 rapid prone at 300 yards, and then 20 shots at 600 yards slow prone. I also shoot M1 garand matches, these are 50 round matches normally just shot at 200 yards and go in reverse, slow prone, rapid prone, rapid sitting, offhand.

__________________
The Americans fight for a free world, the English mostly for honor and glory and medals, the French and Canadians decide too late that they have to participate. The Italians are too scared to fight; the Russians have no choice. The Germans for the Fatherland. The Boers? Those sons of bitches fight for the hell of it!” - American General, George “Guts and Glory” Patton


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 23, 2009 15:10    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #21

quote:
Originally posted by hagar
Tell us more about the competitions you shoot. Here in the US I shoot highpower matches, either 50 or 80 rounds. We start with offhand at 200 yards, 10 or 20 shots, 10 or 20 rapid sitting, 10 or 20 rapid prone at 300 yards, and then 20 shots at 600 yards slow prone. I also shoot M1 garand matches, these are 50 round matches normally just shot at 200 yards and go in reverse, slow prone, rapid prone, rapid sitting, offhand.


Ok! With pleasure!

In a nutshell:

Belgium :
Prone, at 100m on C50 targets.
Maximum 10 test shots
2 x 10 match shots
The whole thing in 35 minutes.
4 disciplines :
Bolt action
Semi Auto before 1950 (Garand, FN49, G43, etc)
Semi Auto after 1950
Modified (all of the above with modified sights, no optics tough)

France :
Prone, at 200m on C200 targets
Maximum 5 test shots in 5 minutes
10 shots in 7 minutes
10 shots in either 3 minutes for bolt action or 1 minute for semi-autos
Maximum 5 cartridges allowed per magazine/clip, so reload/switch magazine after 5 shots
4 disciplines :
Bolt action
Semi auto .223
Semi auto > .223
Modified (all of the above with modified sights, optics allowed if military origin only)

Luxembourg:
Prone, at 100m on C50 targets
Unlimited number of test shots in 5 minutes
3x10 match shots in 10 minutes each
Only 1 discipline, all military rifles together

Germany
Prone, at 300m on A2 (C300) targets
Unlimited number of test shots
3x10 match shots
The whole thing in 45 minutes
Disciplines:
Standard military rifle
Modified (rather strange in Germany, an AR15 with standard military sights counts as “modified”)


__________________
Cheers,
Marc (Be)

CTMC (Cercle de Tir Multicalibre Compétition) (Be)
STTN (Société de Tir des Terres Noires) (Fr)
STH (Société de Tir Hesperange) (Lu)
CTCAM (Cercle de Tir des Cheminots d'Amiens Métropole) (Fr)

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact (George Elliot)


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garandguy10
Curio & Relic

FALaholic # 10840

Old Post November 23, 2009 17:20    Click Here to See the Profile for garandguy10   Click here to Send garandguy10 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #22

I would recheck the headspace with 7.62 NATO gauges [Clymer Mfg.] before I got worried about the headspace. I think that you will find the headspace to be about right using 7.62 NATO gauges as opposed to Winchester .308 gauges. if it closes on a 7.62 NATO NO-GO gauge, then I would think about either replacing the Locking Shoulder or maybe the Bolt.
If you are using Forster .308 Gauges, they tend to run much shorter that Clymer 7.62 nato Gauges.



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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 23, 2009 18:09    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #23

quote:
Originally posted by NZ L1A1 Collector



I can tell you what size locking shoulder is installed in your rifle, can you let me know what numbers/letters or stars are stamped on the large flat side of the locking shoulder (Right side)



My short-time memory sucks!!!
There is à "0" stamped on the locking shouder ... not a "1"!!!


__________________
Cheers,
Marc (Be)

CTMC (Cercle de Tir Multicalibre Compétition) (Be)
STTN (Société de Tir des Terres Noires) (Fr)
STH (Société de Tir Hesperange) (Lu)
CTCAM (Cercle de Tir des Cheminots d'Amiens Métropole) (Fr)

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact (George Elliot)


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 23, 2009 18:11    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #24

quote:
Originally posted by garandguy10
I would recheck the headspace with 7.62 NATO gauges [Clymer Mfg.] before I got worried about the headspace. I think that you will find the headspace to be about right using 7.62 NATO gauges as opposed to Winchester .308 gauges. if it closes on a 7.62 NATO NO-GO gauge, then I would think about either replacing the Locking Shoulder or maybe the Bolt.
If you are using Forster .308 Gauges, they tend to run much shorter that Clymer 7.62 nato Gauges.



I know about the Foster .308 gauges that I use!
I'm not worried about the headspace ... just curious to know what locking shoulder is in there now!
Thanks for the info anyhow. Appreciate it!


__________________
Cheers,
Marc (Be)

CTMC (Cercle de Tir Multicalibre Compétition) (Be)
STTN (Société de Tir des Terres Noires) (Fr)
STH (Société de Tir Hesperange) (Lu)
CTCAM (Cercle de Tir des Cheminots d'Amiens Métropole) (Fr)

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact (George Elliot)


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NZ L1A1 Collector
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FALaholic # 45

Old Post November 29, 2009 09:59    Click Here to See the Profile for NZ L1A1 Collector   Click here to Send NZ L1A1 Collector a Private Message   Click Here to Email NZ L1A1 Collector   Visit NZ L1A1 Collector's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #25

quote:
Originally posted by Tara31


My short-time memory sucks!!!
There is à "0" stamped on the locking shouder ... not a "1"!!!



Sorry about the slow reply.

SIZE '0' Locking Shoulder Dimensions:-

Locking Shoulder Shaft Diameter: 0.02978(max) 0.2970(min)

Overall Length of Stem: 1.330(max) 1.323(min)

Locking Shoulder 'Size': 0.2600(max) 0.2591(min)

ALL DIMENSIONS IN INCHES


__________________
Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 Collector & Researcher.
NEW ZEALAND


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Tara31
Member

FALaholic # 50340

Old Post November 29, 2009 10:45    Click Here to See the Profile for Tara31   Click here to Send Tara31 a Private Message       Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #26

quote:
Originally posted by NZ L1A1 Collector


Sorry about the slow reply.



No problem and thanks for the info!
Any idea where I can find this info myself?
Any good books you can recommend me about the FAL?
Would "The FAL Rifle" by R. Blake Stevens be a good start?

I have the "User handbook for RIFLE, 7.62 mm, L1A1 and 0.22inch CALIBRE, L12A1 CONVERSION KIT, 7.62mm RIFLE". (Army code No 12258). Thats a very nice military manual, but , altough rather complete (also explains the SUIT etc), it stays on a rather high level.


__________________
Cheers,
Marc (Be)

CTMC (Cercle de Tir Multicalibre Compétition) (Be)
STTN (Société de Tir des Terres Noires) (Fr)
STH (Société de Tir Hesperange) (Lu)
CTCAM (Cercle de Tir des Cheminots d'Amiens Métropole) (Fr)

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact (George Elliot)


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catmguy445
Member

FALaholic # 50311

Old Post November 29, 2009 22:37    Click Here to See the Profile for catmguy445   Click here to Send catmguy445 a Private Message   Click Here to Email catmguy445     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #27

Hi, Marc,

Welcome to the boards. I'm only curious about why, if you live up around Antwerpen somewhere in Belgium, did you buy a British L1A1 instead of a Belgian 50.00 LAR? Is there some restriction that Belgian citizens can't buy Belgian military firearms, or was it more that there just weren't any available? And I LOVE the fact that yours is all original including the receiver. I have several FN guns myself; one Belgian 50.00 LAR, one Belgian FNC Para, one Belgian 9mm P35 Hi Power pistol, and one Belgian P35 Hi Power pistol chambered in 7.65 Luger. The 7.65 Luger Hi Power is still unfired, but I've shot all the rest of them, and have shot matches with my LAR, although I'm not as serious a match shooter as you are. I also have 2 L1A1 kits (British) that as we type are being assembled into complete rifles, one on an Enterprise receiver and the other on an Aussie receiver that I think is a Lithgow. I have a third Brit L1A1 kit that I want to make into a Para version. I already have a Congo barrel for that one, but it'll have to wait for a while until I get the other two back from my builder.

My family lived in Belgium when I was in my early 20's (I had my 20th birthday in Belgium), so I have a lot of sentimental attachment to Belgium and the Belgian people, so I'm really glad to meet you. And even though you're a Flem (we lived in Brussels, so that makes me sort of a Walloon by residence), I think we can still be friends. If you give me a list of whatever AR-15 parts you need, I can probably send them to you. I have a lot of bits and pieces for AR-15's that I'm not using. My email address is catmsgt@cableone.net if you want to contact me directly. And don't worry about your English, it's a heck of a lot better than my Flemish. Or my French, for that matter. I spoke passable French when I lived in Brussels, but I've forgotten most of it now, since that was about 40 years ago.

Yes, "The FAL Rifle" by Blake Stevens is without question the best reference book ever written on the FN/FAL rifle and its clones. It's expensive, but definitely worth the price. Your statement about shooting in the French National Military Rifle Comptetiion made me smile a little bit. There is an old joke here about an ad for a French military rifle that goes "For Sale: one French army rifle. Only dropped once." However, I'm sure that the French National matches are fairly serious, and I wish you good luck and lots of x-ring shots when you shoot the match.


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Tim Dreas
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Old Post December 17, 2009 20:31    Click Here to See the Profile for Tim Dreas   Click here to Send Tim Dreas a Private Message     Visit Tim Dreas's homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post #28

I stayed in Belgium for a few years. In Antwerp and Ghent as a student. I took a government night course of Flemish language but it was a 6 year course. I wasn't there that long.

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