Stuck slide on Helwan 9mm

**BlackgunCO** · December 05, 2012, 17:19

Have a problem. Took my Helwan Brigadier out today. Worked great. After shooting the last mag, slide locked open. Took mag out and released the slide. When I got home and tried to take it apart to clean, the slide wont open. You can pull it back about 3/4" but no farther. You can manualy cock the hammer and still no go. This basically the same as a Beretta m1951. Any ideas? Totally worthless as it sits.

JasonB · December 05, 2012, 22:30

Be sure the chamber is empty, of course.

Can you begin field stripping it?

FSD5D0 · December 05, 2012, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackgunCO

Have a problem. Took my Helwan Brigadier out today. Worked great. After shooting the last mag, slide locked open. Took mag out and released the slide. When I got home and tried to take it apart to clean, the slide wont open. You can pull it back about 3/4" but no farther. You can manualy cock the hammer and still no go. This basically the same as a Beretta m1951. Any ideas? Totally worthless as it sits.

Probably a busted locking block. The Helwans had weak ones compared to the Beretta 1951s. Try to field strip it. You may need to run a wooden dowel down the barrel and knock it open with a mallet so you can rotate the disassembly latch.

**BlackgunCO** · December 05, 2012, 23:06

I'll try knocking a dowl down the barrel. Not able to get the slide back far enough to engage the take down lever. Wonder if I can find parts for this thing? Shame that it broke as it actually shoots pretty good.

**BlackgunCO** · December 06, 2012, 08:40

Dowl did the trick. Thanks for the info. Problem was the locking block rear corners had mushroomed out. I filed them down flush on the sides and it seems to work smooth now. It seems like this part might not have been hardened enough or something. Do I need to replace it? Will a Beretta one fit? Where can I get one if needed?

**bykerhd** · December 06, 2012, 10:56

Try GunParts or maybe SARCO for a locking block.

**kev** · December 06, 2012, 11:12

It seems that all the Helwan parts are softer than they should be. I've had a couple that were very sticky gettiung in and out of lock. DO NOT drop the slide on an empty chamber. That's abusive to just about any gun and death to second rate habib manufactured stuff. Treat gently as if it wants to break,.............because it does.

**GOVT1911** · December 06, 2012, 19:19

Have had the same kind of thing happen to a couple Berettas over the years. both times, a "corner" broke off of the locking block. I screwed around with it for over an hour the first time before I figured out if I held the pistol upside down and wiggled it, I could get the parts to kinda line up and then was able to get the slide off.

Sorry no help on the parts, just figured I'd throw that info out there and maybe save someone some time if it happens to them.

JasonB · December 06, 2012, 19:30

How did Beretta's using the locking block ever get a toe hold considering the relatively low number of rounds at which they break?

**GOVT1911** · December 06, 2012, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonB

How did Beretta's using the locking block ever get a toe hold considering the relatively low number of rounds at which they break?

I really can't complain about the Berettas. I own 2 personally, one of which has over 15000 rounds through it. I have replaced most of the springs in it (just because) and replaced the recoil spring every 5k or so. No real problems with them. The ones I have seen problems with were all issue pistols, but those get ABUSED more than most can imagine......

They're not my first choice, but I don't feel inadequate if that's the gun I'm carrying.....

**BlackgunCO** · December 06, 2012, 21:07

Seems like the model 1951 brigadier has issues with the locking block cracking. The Helwan is an Egyptian copy of this. Locking block on mine seems too soft. Seen a lot of post about this particular model having failures in both brands. Just seems to be a week point with this particular pistol.

**bykerhd** · December 06, 2012, 21:17

The basic design of the locking block appears to have been lifted from Walther's P-38.

It seems that the Germans did it better ?

JasonB · December 06, 2012, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOVT1911

I really can't complain about the Berettas. I own 2 personally, one of which has over 15000 rounds through it. I have replaced most of the springs in it (just because) and replaced the recoil spring every 5k or so. No real problems with them. The ones I have seen problems with were all issue pistols, but those get ABUSED more than most can imagine......

They're not my first choice, but I don't feel inadequate if that's the gun I'm carrying.....

Seems like the locking block is pretty much a given to break at 20k which in one respect is quite a few rounds, but on the other hand really isn't compared to some others that will run longer with the original parts still in place. IIRC the M-9 frame life is 35k(not so great either) & the slide is 75k(getting warmer).

Will say the few times I have fired one it shot well and was smooth with the only gripe from that being the overall size for what it was.

**BlackgunCO** · December 08, 2012, 16:55

Got it all back together after filling the bulged sides of the locking block. Oiled it up well. Slide moves nice and smooth. Got rid of it at the pawn shop for $80 less than I paid. Looked on the internet and no one has spare locking blocks. Neither Helwan or Beretta. Extra mags are $40+. Think I will get a FEG BHP copy to go with the Kareen. If you buy a Helwan Brigadier for shooting, Would be bestmto get two so you will have the spare parts you won't be able to find once it breaks.

wolfspotter1 · December 09, 2012, 19:07

My first 9mm was an FEG copy of the Browning High Power. Horribly inaccurate, slide and most other parts were soft or incorrectly heat treated. If you pulled the trigger hard enough, it would fire with the safety on.

I prefer Sig's but if you're looking for lower cost, try Taurus. I have a stainless PT-92 AF and blued PT-99 with adjustable sights. Both are very accurate and reliable.

FSD5D0 · December 12, 2012, 20:38

Meh, I'd get this: http://www.jgsales.com/beretta-96d-4....-p-17795.html

or this: http://summitgunbroker.com/cougar.html

Before any FEG.

dirtyrice · December 12, 2012, 21:26

I have an feg hipower the early ones. I got it in a trade didn't know much about hipowers at the time. It has never failed to go boom or extract. External fit and finish is really good. The inside on the other hand is rough compared to a fn or belgian hi power. The parts will inter change with other hipowers. When I slowly rack the feg and then do the same to my fn/browning hipower the fn/belgian seems way smoother. Seems like the barrel moves more in the feg when the slide comes back. And yes mine is not near as accurate as my fn/belgian. I need to change out some parts and shoot it more.

**BlackgunCO** · December 12, 2012, 22:37

Getting an early FEG BHP clone. Hope it turns out decent. If not, will sell and buy something else. Probably something you guys list above or a real BHP.

dirtyrice · December 13, 2012, 00:39

How much did you pay is the question?

JasonB · December 13, 2012, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackgunCO

Getting an early FEG BHP clone. Hope it turns out decent. If not, will sell and buy something else. Probably something you guys list above or a real BHP.

Ok are we all really talking about FEJ PJK-9HP's(or the various other monikers they slapped on that style) Luger M80s, Mauser M80s, most (all?)Charles Daly Hi Powers, or the FEG counterfeits of FN guns (down to most of the markings) that are identical dimensionally to an FN built pistol in every way (except a slightly thicker backstrap and not sure if that applies to the counterfeits or not and the occasional model with a vent rib)

-or-

are we talking about the pistols that use S&W model 59 type lock ups that are externally distinguishable only by the lack of the lobe on the slide release & the absence of the cam in the frame (and even that is hard to see on some when it is present) that are quite different internally

-or-

are we talking about the FEG produced double action (and from what I recall reading it was quite a DA pull) 9mm that it's only similarity to a BHP was the slide scallops at the muzzle that ended up being called a Hi Power clone by the unscrupulous and ignorant?

Always have to narrow that down

If it is the direct clone (other than the mentioned likely thicker backstrap & the somewhat rarer presence of a vent rib) it should be good. Read of some that apparently were not properly heat treated, but then have read about some FN produced Hi Powers that weren't either so one can get out from anywhere.

Gazz · December 13, 2012, 07:34

I have one of the FEG High Power copies and am very pleased with it. It looks good with a nice high polish blue finish, has never jammed and is reasonably accurate - fine for it's intended purpose. The trigger pull is a little heavy and the hammer was modified by a previous owner to a spur type and those are my only complaints. High Power parts and magazines do work fine in it too. I used to have a link to a website that explained the history and differences of the numerous models that FEG produced but lost it.

**BlackgunCO** · December 13, 2012, 08:01

It is this one. $325. Looks like a BHP but that is all I can tell. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=320514444

JasonB · December 13, 2012, 20:01

Should take all standard hi power parts (a little fitting is usually required)except wrap around grip back straps.

Probably a decent deal. Someone has installed a Mk II or III left half of an ambi-safety on it which is a plus. Just make sure it blocks the sear correctly.

JasonB · December 13, 2012, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazz

I have one of the FEG High Power copies and am very pleased with it. It looks good with a nice high polish blue finish, has never jammed and is reasonably accurate - fine for it's intended purpose. The trigger pull is a little heavy and the hammer was modified by a previous owner to a spur type and those are my only complaints. High Power parts and magazines do work fine in it too. I used to have a link to a website that explained the history and differences of the numerous models that FEG produced but lost it.

Don't the round hammers pinch you?

Did you try polishing the mag where the mag disconnector hits and/or removing the disconnector?

http://feghp.blogspot.com/

Gazz · December 13, 2012, 20:25

I don't know if the hammer rowel would pinch me, it never had one! I have fairly small hands in any case and most pistols that bother or pinch other folk do not bother or pinch me. The magazine "safety" was already removed when I got it and I have polished some of the internals and it is still on the heavy side, at least compared to my favored 1911 type government models and S&W revolvers. I am happy with it at it's current pull though. I bought it at an auction that my fish and game club used to have for $45 since it did not have a front sight and most of the attendees (maybe all of them) had no idea what a FEG was. There was a empty mortise in the slide for the front sight but I couldn't figure out how the front sight was staked in since there was nothing visible inside the slide. I milled it for a dovetail and found that there is a threaded "bushing" in the front of the slide when the cutter busted through the threads. Didn't know that about High Powers.

December 05, 2012, 17:19	#1
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	Stuck slide on Helwan 9mm Have a problem. Took my Helwan Brigadier out today. Worked great. After shooting the last mag, slide locked open. Took mag out and released the slide. When I got home and tried to take it apart to clean, the slide wont open. You can pull it back about 3/4" but no farther. You can manualy cock the hammer and still no go. This basically the same as a Beretta m1951. Any ideas? Totally worthless as it sits.

December 05, 2012, 22:30	#2
JasonB Registered FALaholic #: 7430 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 90° N 0° W Posts: 9,224	Be sure the chamber is empty, of course. Can you begin field stripping it? __________________ On Romney's being anti-gun.."If Barney Frank ran for president, I wouldn't need him to tell me in a debate that he'd still be gay if elected."-Shlomo

December 06, 2012, 11:12	#7
kev Curio & Relic Contributor FALaholic #: 71 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Indiana and various others Posts: 3,775	It seems that all the Helwan parts are softer than they should be. I've had a couple that were very sticky gettiung in and out of lock. DO NOT drop the slide on an empty chamber. That's abusive to just about any gun and death to second rate habib manufactured stuff. Treat gently as if it wants to break,.............because it does. __________________ Gun control is not about guns; it's about control. RUE?

December 06, 2012, 19:19	#8
GOVT1911 Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 9433 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raeford, NC Posts: 3,215	Have had the same kind of thing happen to a couple Berettas over the years. both times, a "corner" broke off of the locking block. I screwed around with it for over an hour the first time before I figured out if I held the pistol upside down and wiggled it, I could get the parts to kinda line up and then was able to get the slide off. Sorry no help on the parts, just figured I'd throw that info out there and maybe save someone some time if it happens to them. __________________ I don't make policy, I just enforce the last 300 Meters of it.

December 06, 2012, 19:30	#9
JasonB Registered FALaholic #: 7430 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 90° N 0° W Posts: 9,224	How did Beretta's using the locking block ever get a toe hold considering the relatively low number of rounds at which they break? __________________ On Romney's being anti-gun.."If Barney Frank ran for president, I wouldn't need him to tell me in a debate that he'd still be gay if elected."-Shlomo

December 05, 2012, 23:06	#4
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	I'll try knocking a dowl down the barrel. Not able to get the slide back far enough to engage the take down lever. Wonder if I can find parts for this thing? Shame that it broke as it actually shoots pretty good.

December 06, 2012, 08:40	#5
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	Dowl did the trick. Thanks for the info. Problem was the locking block rear corners had mushroomed out. I filed them down flush on the sides and it seems to work smooth now. It seems like this part might not have been hardened enough or something. Do I need to replace it? Will a Beretta one fit? Where can I get one if needed?

December 06, 2012, 10:56	#6
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	Try GunParts or maybe SARCO for a locking block.

December 06, 2012, 21:07	#11
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	Seems like the model 1951 brigadier has issues with the locking block cracking. The Helwan is an Egyptian copy of this. Locking block on mine seems too soft. Seen a lot of post about this particular model having failures in both brands. Just seems to be a week point with this particular pistol.

December 06, 2012, 21:17	#12
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	The basic design of the locking block appears to have been lifted from Walther's P-38. It seems that the Germans did it better ?

December 08, 2012, 16:55	#14
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	Got it all back together after filling the bulged sides of the locking block. Oiled it up well. Slide moves nice and smooth. Got rid of it at the pawn shop for $80 less than I paid. Looked on the internet and no one has spare locking blocks. Neither Helwan or Beretta. Extra mags are $40+. Think I will get a FEG BHP copy to go with the Kareen. If you buy a Helwan Brigadier for shooting, Would be bestmto get two so you will have the spare parts you won't be able to find once it breaks.

December 09, 2012, 19:07	#15
wolfspotter1 Registered FALaholic #: 64473 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 104	My first 9mm was an FEG copy of the Browning High Power. Horribly inaccurate, slide and most other parts were soft or incorrectly heat treated. If you pulled the trigger hard enough, it would fire with the safety on. I prefer Sig's but if you're looking for lower cost, try Taurus. I have a stainless PT-92 AF and blued PT-99 with adjustable sights. Both are very accurate and reliable.

December 12, 2012, 20:38	#16
FSD5D0 Registered FALaholic #: 62814 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 110	Meh, I'd get this: http://www.jgsales.com/beretta-96d-4....-p-17795.html or this: http://summitgunbroker.com/cougar.html Before any FEG.

December 12, 2012, 21:26	#17
dirtyrice Registered FALaholic #: 20129 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,775	I have an feg hipower the early ones. I got it in a trade didn't know much about hipowers at the time. It has never failed to go boom or extract. External fit and finish is really good. The inside on the other hand is rough compared to a fn or belgian hi power. The parts will inter change with other hipowers. When I slowly rack the feg and then do the same to my fn/browning hipower the fn/belgian seems way smoother. Seems like the barrel moves more in the feg when the slide comes back. And yes mine is not near as accurate as my fn/belgian. I need to change out some parts and shoot it more. __________________ “The people are the best guardians of their own rights and it is the duty of their executive to abstain from interfering in or thwarting the sacred exercise of the lawmaking functions of their government.” -William Henry Harrison “I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process.” -Benjamin Harrison Ron Paul 2008. Wtf happened people :( God Bless Texas!

December 12, 2012, 22:37	#18
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	Getting an early FEG BHP clone. Hope it turns out decent. If not, will sell and buy something else. Probably something you guys list above or a real BHP.

December 13, 2012, 00:39	#19
dirtyrice Registered FALaholic #: 20129 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,775	How much did you pay is the question? __________________ “The people are the best guardians of their own rights and it is the duty of their executive to abstain from interfering in or thwarting the sacred exercise of the lawmaking functions of their government.” -William Henry Harrison “I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process.” -Benjamin Harrison Ron Paul 2008. Wtf happened people :( God Bless Texas!

December 13, 2012, 07:34	#21
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 1,934	I have one of the FEG High Power copies and am very pleased with it. It looks good with a nice high polish blue finish, has never jammed and is reasonably accurate - fine for it's intended purpose. The trigger pull is a little heavy and the hammer was modified by a previous owner to a spur type and those are my only complaints. High Power parts and magazines do work fine in it too. I used to have a link to a website that explained the history and differences of the numerous models that FEG produced but lost it. __________________ Gazz

December 13, 2012, 08:01	#22
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,541	It is this one. $325. Looks like a BHP but that is all I can tell. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=320514444

December 13, 2012, 20:01	#23
JasonB Registered FALaholic #: 7430 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 90° N 0° W Posts: 9,224	Should take all standard hi power parts (a little fitting is usually required)except wrap around grip back straps. Probably a decent deal. Someone has installed a Mk II or III left half of an ambi-safety on it which is a plus. Just make sure it blocks the sear correctly. __________________ On Romney's being anti-gun.."If Barney Frank ran for president, I wouldn't need him to tell me in a debate that he'd still be gay if elected."-Shlomo

December 13, 2012, 20:25	#25
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 1,934	I don't know if the hammer rowel would pinch me, it never had one! I have fairly small hands in any case and most pistols that bother or pinch other folk do not bother or pinch me. The magazine "safety" was already removed when I got it and I have polished some of the internals and it is still on the heavy side, at least compared to my favored 1911 type government models and S&W revolvers. I am happy with it at it's current pull though. I bought it at an auction that my fish and game club used to have for $45 since it did not have a front sight and most of the attendees (maybe all of them) had no idea what a FEG was. There was a empty mortise in the slide for the front sight but I couldn't figure out how the front sight was staked in since there was nothing visible inside the slide. I milled it for a dovetail and found that there is a threaded "bushing" in the front of the slide when the cutter busted through the threads. Didn't know that about High Powers. __________________ Gazz

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