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Old November 04, 2018, 10:31   #1
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100 yd 10 dot challenge on M14 forum.

Ok, the rifle I built especially for this Challenge is working properly. Max spread .75" average less than .30" for 10 rnds. I am a happy camper.
Score 10-10. I am not competing. Just honing my skills.
Rifle used:
All Bula XM21 version 1 Ser# 3. with Bula barrel.
JAE Gen III chassis.
Scope is a cheapo Hi Lux Dominator XR 6-30x56mm from Sportman's Guide.
ARMS #22 lever quick detach rings.

Ammo is DAG berdan brass with Tula berdan primers.\
136 gr flat based bullet.
45 gr of Varget.

Shot from a loaded magazine, not single loaded this time. Off Atlas bipod and accushot monopod on the back. resting on my portable 3 legged table.




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Old November 04, 2018, 11:57   #2
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I have been thinking about starting a new game at the gun club along the same lines as to what you are doing here. Great shooting, paper never lies.
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Old November 04, 2018, 12:02   #3
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Art Luppino started this challenge on the M14 forum a few years ago. I just keep scores now. It's way more difficult that most think with an M14 semi-auto.
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Old November 04, 2018, 13:28   #4
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I was thinking about the tea cup challenge, shooting one shot from each shooting position and hitting a target the size of a tea cup at 100 yards.
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Old November 04, 2018, 14:05   #5
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After shooting at 1" dots at a hundred, a tea cup could be shot offhand.
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Old November 04, 2018, 14:10   #6
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After shooting at 1" dots at a hundred, a tea cup could be shot offhand.
A long time ago Jeff Cooper said the standard for a good rifleman would be hitting a teacup at 100 yards from any shooting position on demand. Thought about setting up a match useing clay pigeons as teacups.
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Old November 04, 2018, 14:15   #7
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After shooting at 1" dots at a hundred, a tea cup could be shot offhand.
I cannot recall testing this theory with a rifle, but with a bow, "shoot small, miss small" seems true.

If I shoot at a softball size bullseye, I get softball sized arrow groupings.

If I shoot at a quarter sized bullseye, my groups tighten up around it.
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Old November 04, 2018, 18:55   #8
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A long time ago Jeff Cooper said the standard for a good rifleman would be hitting a teacup at 100 yards from any shooting position on demand. Thought about setting up a match useing clay pigeons as teacups.
In my humble opinion this is a much more revealing challenge because the rifle can't do anything the rifleman can't do. Clay Pigeons at 100 yards, 10 rounds on 10 targets followed by a drop to sitting with a mag change and repeat. Under time, hasty slings allowed. I would do it with iron but allow either. If you want a prone stage move it out to 200, anyone can't hit a clay from 100 from prone with a Garand or M1A needs remedial training.
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Old November 04, 2018, 21:27   #9
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Damn fine shootin' Art. I've got the same barreled action sitting in a Sage chassis that's getting broken in currently. Only able to shoot factory match ammo currently but with FGGM I've got a chance to go 7 or 8 outta 10 with it if the stars align.

Also have an LRB wearing a Wolfe WMMW barrel built by our IRONWORKER here that just ate some of the 175gr FGGM for the first time today. The 175gr show promise of getting me close to 10 for 10. My biggest obstacle is the Indian, not the arrow.
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Old November 04, 2018, 22:35   #10
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In my humble opinion this is a much more revealing challenge because the rifle can't do anything the rifleman can't do. Clay Pigeons at 100 yards, 10 rounds on 10 targets followed by a drop to sitting with a mag change and repeat. Under time, hasty slings allowed. I would do it with iron but allow either. If you want a prone stage move it out to 200, anyone can't hit a clay from 100 from prone with a Garand or M1A needs remedial training.
In the match it would be who does it with the fastest time. All strapped in and tied down or off the bench would be out of the question, just the shooter and his rifle. Scopes would be fine and slings too but no other accessories like bipods.. Give the shooter two runs for a time combination. Still pondering it out but I think I could make it fun for shooters.
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Old November 05, 2018, 05:09   #11
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In the match it would be who does it with the fastest time. All strapped in and tied down or off the bench would be out of the question, just the shooter and his rifle. Scopes would be fine and slings too but no other accessories like bipods.. Give the shooter two runs for a time combination. Still pondering it out but I think I could make it fun for shooters.
Does sound like fun.
Once upon a time I would have enjoyed this, but now with one one almost useless arm, puts me out of even trying. Bipods are keeping me in my game.
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Old November 05, 2018, 07:10   #12
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In the match it would be who does it with the fastest time. All strapped in and tied down or off the bench would be out of the question, just the shooter and his rifle. Scopes would be fine and slings too but no other accessories like bipods.. Give the shooter two runs for a time combination. Still pondering it out but I think I could make it fun for shooters.
I said 10 shots, had M14 on the brain. Make it 8 to include M1s in the game. Yep, just the shooter & the rifle. 8 standing, 8 sitting, fastest time wins. Garands use full enblocs, those shooting box mag rifles load eight per. Better yet 4&4, a good shooter might do it without a reload but most will probably need more than 8 total. Will help groove a couple of good habits starting with (a) don't miss and (b) if ya do, don't quit.

Yep, under time. 4 standing, 4 sitting. Start from port arms, with either rifle loaded & ready or bolts open depending on range rules. This will be a good drill and more revealing than just sandbagging a rifle.
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Old November 05, 2018, 07:52   #13
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This is my most often used position these days. Rifle in photo is M-14 in 6.5 Creedmoor. My fancy shooting table is in the background.



Love all the different challenges.
Give the 10 1" dot a try. It is not a easy as one would think.
Never tried sandbags or a concrete bench, but I usually do better than the birds that do. It's all good clean fun.
Happy Daze.
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Old November 05, 2018, 09:41   #14
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Art,
Nice shooting.
I'm surprised no one has absconded with your fancy shooting table and chair!

My dad and I shoot a 100 yard challenge using scoped, precision AR's off a rest.
We use a 50 yard International Benchrest rimfire target and shoot one round at each of 25 bullseyes for score...possible 250.
Each bullseye is ~2 inch diameter with ~dime sized 10 ring.
We are happy when we break the 200 mark and that target makes for challenging shooting.

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Old November 05, 2018, 10:02   #15
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This is the target I use for load development at 100 yds. .22 10.
I have cleaned this target at 50 yds a couple of times with my scoped 82G.

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Old November 05, 2018, 10:31   #16
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I said 10 shots, had M14 on the brain. Make it 8 to include M1s in the game. Yep, just the shooter & the rifle. 8 standing, 8 sitting, fastest time wins. Garands use full enblocs, those shooting box mag rifles load eight per. Better yet 4&4, a good shooter might do it without a reload but most will probably need more than 8 total. Will help groove a couple of good habits starting with (a) don't miss and (b) if ya do, don't quit.

Yep, under time. 4 standing, 4 sitting. Start from port arms, with either rifle loaded & ready or bolts open depending on range rules. This will be a good drill and more revealing than just sandbagging a rifle.
Ya that looks like fun.
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Old November 05, 2018, 10:32   #17
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^^^ Your target is more amenable to commercial boxes of rifle ammo @ 20 rounds (minus sighters and fouling shots, of course).

Yes, ours is also a very nice target for it's intended purpose: 50 yard smallbore.
I have come close to cleaning one with a 10/22, scoring like 235, or so.
I have not cleaned one of the 25 shot IBS targets...yet!
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Old November 05, 2018, 11:07   #18
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I like to remember that today is the first day of the rest of my life.
Starting afresh is a good thing in my mind.
Let the grumpy turds lay where they fall.
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Old November 05, 2018, 13:23   #19
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I like to remember that today is the first day of the rest of my life.
Starting afresh is a good thing in my mind.
Let the grumpy turds lay where they fall.
Live in the moment.

What time is it? Now.
Where am I? Here.

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Old November 05, 2018, 14:41   #20
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New scope showed up today. Can't wait for the rain to stop so I can give her a test.

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Old November 05, 2018, 15:16   #21
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Now that is fancy!
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Old November 05, 2018, 16:34   #22
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Art, you're gonna really like that scope just sayin ...
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Old November 05, 2018, 17:19   #23
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Art, you're gonna really like that scope just sayin ...
Thanks, problem is I like them all way too much.
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Old November 06, 2018, 05:32   #24
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Bula, JAE and Night Force. I have a feeling this combination might just suit my requirements.

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Old November 08, 2018, 15:17   #25
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Shot some M118LR today. Not as tight a group as my handloads at 100yds but I take it. Ain't too shabby for an M14 type rifle in semi-auto mode.
10 rnd group in photo.

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Old November 08, 2018, 17:11   #26
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Not bad at all. Will probably uncork some of mine this weekend. Not gonna bench it though, probably will work a few of those 4x4 drills to see what works.
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Old November 09, 2018, 06:32   #27
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Agree completely.
In all my 70 plus years, I have yet to shoot a bench-rested rifle in anything other than 22 cal and that was some years ago.
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Old November 09, 2018, 10:23   #28
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Art, I love the scope. That rifle just screams for some long range fun. How long is your barrel on that one?

When I went through my sniper course when I worked for the Department of the Army, we had to go 5 for 5 in a 2 inch circle from standing, sitting and kneeling. They werenít all at 100 yards but it wasnít very easy. It seems like we had 10 seconds for each shot.

Went to another sniper training course where we had to shoot as many clay targets in 90 seconds as we could (there were 20 to start). The fun part was that the first shot was to a steel target that was connected to a steel cable that all the clay targets were hanging from. This caused all the clay targets to dance and spin. Never say anyone get all 20 of them.
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Old November 09, 2018, 11:30   #29
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Art, I love the scope. That rifle just screams for some long range fun. How long is your barrel on that one?

When I went through my sniper course when I worked for the Department of the Army, we had to go 5 for 5 in a 2 inch circle from standing, sitting and kneeling. They werenít all at 100 yards but it wasnít very easy. It seems like we had 10 seconds for each shot.

Went to another sniper training course where we had to shoot as many clay targets in 90 seconds as we could (there were 20 to start). The fun part was that the first shot was to a steel target that was connected to a steel cable that all the clay targets were hanging from. This caused all the clay targets to dance and spin. Never say anyone get all 20 of them.
22" Ultra heavy Bula Barrel.

Sounds like fun but my position shooting is limited. I have a left arm that is ab out useless since getting the shoulder crushed a few years ago. Most of my shooting these days is prone off bipod and mono pod on the butt.
My 10 rnd groups are all shot in just under a minute at 100 yds. The ones that are all shot on top of each other are the easy ones. The shots at 10 different dots at 100 are the hard ones to clean, but more fun at the same time.
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Old November 09, 2018, 19:33   #30
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Anyone who thinks the 10 dot 100 yard target isn't difficult with a M1A you need to try it.
You will be very humbled
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Old November 09, 2018, 20:04   #31
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Rgr that. It is fun but takes a lot of work.
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Old November 09, 2018, 21:17   #32
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Hey Art , couple questions

Did I just see what I think I saw with the MSRP of the JAE chassis ?

More importantly , in your opinion , are they worth it?

Don't mind me , I'm just Kicking the dust off of one of my half lings
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Old November 10, 2018, 08:06   #33
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Hey Art , couple questions

Did I just see what I think I saw with the MSRP of the JAE chassis ?

More importantly , in your opinion , are they worth it?

Don't mind me , I'm just Kicking the dust off of one of my half lings
If it was right around 2K yes.

Only if you want to squeeze the most possible out of your M14.

Want a real shock , check out the msrp on the NF ATACR 5-25x56 F1.

Retirement is great. I love spending the kid's inheritance.

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Old November 10, 2018, 09:29   #34
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New scope showed up today. Can't wait for the rain to stop so I can give her a test.


Our VSP Tac. team just got these scopes on their new rifles. They love them and the 1000 yd. steel is no problem.......Happy Birthday and Semper fi
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Old December 01, 2018, 14:17   #35
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there was some one or a gun club that used to do "egg shoots"
can't remember the details
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Old December 01, 2018, 14:35   #36
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Shot this 10 rnd group at 100 yds practicing on Monday.

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Old December 01, 2018, 23:14   #37
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Ok, the rifle I built especially for this Challenge is working properly. Max spread .75" average less than .30" for 10 rnds. I am a happy camper.
Score 10-10. I am not competing. Just honing my skills.
Rifle used:
All Bula XM21 version 1 Ser# 3. with Bula barrel.
JAE Gen III chassis.
Scope is a cheapo Hi Lux Dominator XR 6-30x56mm from Sportman's Guide.
ARMS #22 lever quick detach rings.
(Trim)
While Hi Lux is an inexpensive brand if go to White Oak Armaments scope line they carry a mix of $1,000+ Leupold and $2,000+ March custom scopes with a few "cheapo" Hi Lux mixed in. I know how particular they are and if the glass doesn't perform for Service Rifle, NRA Across Course, combat and similar shooting they won't sell it.

Have a few rifles hurting for glass, can't seem to come up with the cash to properly glass them as a man can only sit so many $2,000 scopes on boom sticks and shopping the Hi Lux line. Am looking at my ridiculous collection to decide which scopes are staying put, which are being moved and what am going to buy to sit on rifles that either have to sit in vault unusable or place a lower tier Vortex, Burris or Hi Lux to put all into service. Have a pair of Noveske AR 15 builds, two full AR 10 parts kits now including custom 6.5 Creedmore barrels that if start won't have glass on top.

After buying $400 to $600 barrels plus DPMS Lo Pro receiver sets and other top notch parts slumming on the glass is counterintuitive but have some rifles that haven't been shot in years with very high dollar scopes but if we're to pull them for service need a scope that reaches a custom rifle in long range cartridge potential. Have a 6XC, 50 BMG and two custom turn bolts plus a passel of AR 15's sitting in vaults with no glass and parts to keep churning them out. Currently have spent more on scopes than original purchase price of my house which almost seems ludicrous. Today when left the house the rifle/scope combination sat in passenger seat cost more than value of the truck. Could never build another rifle, shoot them daily and never hit a point where didn't have a fresh crisp barrel and chamber/throat but building has become a disease.
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Old December 02, 2018, 05:22   #38
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Making decisions as to were available funding is distributed has been a chore to say the least.
Many years ago now, the wife and I quit drinking and smoking and put the money that would have been used for same in our fun account.
Since then we have been able to take vacations and make purchases of many items we would never have been able to afford otherwise.

Now that I am retired, if is a joy to have that fun account to draw on for toys.
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Old December 02, 2018, 11:12   #39
hueyville
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Wife nor I drink and except for when travelling out of state have not eaten in a restaurant in over a decade. I don't want a salad made by a snotty nosed prep employee who came into work with the flu. Between money saved eating restaurant food and a obvious number of less recorded stomach issues and other contagious illness that is probably traced back to an iffy meal choosing how and where to spend money is a huge issue. We have only been to two movies in 26+ years and have no premium cable channels. Have a friend who pays over $200 per month on television so never misses a game or race where we spend game time in gun room reloading and spinning vinyl records through a tube amp that was all paid for in the 70's/80's. Our cable bill is $64 which is about as cheap as installing and maintaining a good antenna.

Have been brown bagging my lunch to work for 25+ years instead of running through a drive-thru or going in a sit down restaurant. Last beer I purchased was in Switzerland 2002 and had been over five years since had a drink before that. The mood for a genuine Lowenbrau Dark hit me and was in the land of real Lowenbrau. In 2017 we saved over $2,000 clipping coupons (mostly electronic) on our grocery bill. Went to Kroger about a month back on a planned trip only buying in bulk items we use that store well and were on Mega-Sale, had a store coupon and manufacturers coupon for each item as well. Looking at receipt as left register (teller freaked out when register went loopy like a Vegas slot machine when she hit the total button) to see had saved 52% over their "daily low price".

Drive my 25 year old Dakota because it gets best fuel mileage of all my trucks, bought a fixer upper house then remodeled one room at a time as money allowed rather than add $25,000 to loan for improvements needed like total rewire and re-plumb. Wife went seven years without a kitchen cooking on a Coleman propane stove and had a dormitory size refrigerator with chest freezer in basement. Now she has her dream kitchen that could pass for a television show designer kitchen where I would buy a clearance stove then diswasher, etc as found as Lowe's, Home Depot or local professional supply house but took six years to buy every item down to farm sink and faucet she wanted for less than 1/2 regular price.

Same with building rifles when can. Watch for sales, buy six to a dozen or even several dozen parts as see a deal but when only choice is a full price $595 barrel then order it. I got way behind during the last Nobama term as was afraid he might sign an executive order right after election or Hitlary would ban military style rifles first week had she won. Guarantee after Las Vegas shoot she would have banned anything black, bump, binary, tactical, etc. Goal was to buy parts and build rifles quickly as possible so if such day hit wouldn't be crying about missed opportunity as doubted scopes would go on a ban list. Had over 100 AR 15 lowers, 50 uppers, 30 barrels half dozen AR 10 receiver sets and four FAL/L1a1 kits with six upper receivers in house before the election. Add in over 100 sets of body armor as Trump and Hitlary were both supporting a possible ban on armor sales to civilians. Since owned half dozen M1a's, pair of HK's, half dozen completex AR 10's, a few CETME's, several completed FAL/L1a1's all in 7.62 and could build four AR 15's to one nice battle rifle I didn't fully think through the 6.5 Creedmore trend.

Now am poodle shooter and poodle shooter parts poor with minimal spare cash to jump as heavily as would like onto the 6.5 Creedmore bus. Have the one M1a "Loaded" in 6.5, two nice AR 10 parts kits but with going from two income to single income household, wife going on new bone medicine just FDA approved which is $3,500 per month and not covered by any insurance plans yet the disposable income rules have changed and had to slow my roll. Building the big pile of parts have put back and only buying deals too good to pass up. Not even begun the pair of AR 10 6.5 Creedmore builds as don't have glass for them in stock and afraid if finish them will use a credit card. My goal was house, business and vehicles paid off by age 50 but the broken spine delayed that to age 55. Now that am living payment free just have no desire to go back in debt so having to be careful not to go too big on letting my wants supercede my disposable income.

My biggest challenge is looking at all the beauties Art is building and how well they shoot. Don't want to reconfigure any of my 7.62 M1a's so currently just lurking and learning. Recently put a 20 acre tract of land and a 40 acre tract on market and wife promised if smaller sells can buy any single rifle and scope combination I want and when the 40 acre tract sells can buy two complete rigs. With any luck both will sell and can order up three custom built 6.5 M14's plus glass.
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"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old December 02, 2018, 12:31   #40
ArtBanks
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We are working on our 53rd year of bliss.
I don't need any more toys, but I sure like nailing them together in my shop.
Loading up 4 100 rnd batches of ammo today.
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Old December 02, 2018, 16:26   #41
hueyville
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Wife & I just came up from first post church reloading break. Fixing a snack then back to bumping shoulders, sizing necks and making sure all this new primed brass is trimmed to spec. As I finish the wife weighs and sorts cases by weight into four groups so that each batch even though new primed matched brand brass do not want to have too much variation as plan is to assemble 1,000 110 grain Accubonds in 6.8 spc II. This is the last 2,000 cases of a 5,000 case lot and using a Whidden Click Adjustable size die to ensure all is in tolerance, never trust new brass to be in spec then they see a power trimmer with RCBS three way trimmer to eliminate any variance in champhering and deburring as well as length.

Once all are put close enough to same tolerance for my peace of mind and wife has weighed and done visual inspection as time comes to do a particular run of projectiles can pull the box of cases that best matches number plan to run. Will usually come up with two good sized boxes close to the average weight one slightly lighter and one slightly heavier then a smaller box of light cases and heavy cases. As much variation from lightest cases to heaviest in a big batch would worry me if not sorted so that the lightest and heaviest of 5,000 cases ended up in the same five or ten rounds pull out of a box for a single group. Will most likely do a smaller run of Barnes copper solids using whichever of the heaviest or lightest batch best matches number of projectiles am running. Quite often the case count by weight determines number or rounds loaded.

We have three tumblers running Lake City 7.62x51 cases now and as they come out wife first sorts by year before they begin the size/deprime trip through an RCBS AR series small base die before trim to length with three way trimmer. Then uniform primer pockets on a power cutter and debur flash holes. After all they get annealed and a final run through a bushing neck sizer to make sure didn't knock any necks out of round wife uses a dental pick to feel for internal cracks and sorts by weight. If any feel funny to her she sets to the side and I examine with a bore scope. Scored a 5,000 case lot of the once fired Lake City and already had about the same amount from a previous buy. All is dated 2012 to 2015 and was supposed to have not been shot through machine guns and webs seem to not measure out to hint that they were as machine gun brass often measures a tad fat just above web and not seeing any link marks before go in tumblers.

Found a deal on 4,000 Hornady 155 grain HPBT Match projectiles and goal is to hand match the 4,000 most consistent cases out of this batch of 7.62 once fired to load. The 155 grain match projectiles should shoot well out of lazy twist battle rifle barrels such as 1:11 twist FAL's that don't normally like heavy bullets well as faster twist 1:10 M1a's. It's always nice to have a batch of semi match to almost match quality loads close to average milspec weight for my nicer bore FAL/L1a1's and standard grade M1a's which will know when suits go wild it was the operator and not an odd lot of surplus or mismatched bullet weight to twist rate and fit in magazines without worry of being loaded long due to projectile length. Feel lucky about a wife who enjoys mundane tasks like weighing cases and after lifetime in dentistry a feel with a dental pick that can pick up just the first hint of an internal crack starting to form before any worries about case head separation.
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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