G3 kit questions

[Fiorina]

Hey guys, never posted on this part of the forum, but I've recently taken an interest in getting a G3. How much is a decent kit? I saw one on a website for 196$ without a barrel. It was on a website called bravo5. Just curious how much I should expect to pay and if there's anything I should steer clear from. Just any info for a noob would be helpful. Thanks.

[AliYahu]

that's a Cetme kit, not a G3 kit.

Eli

[eyegun]

A decent kit with original barrel will run in the $600 range.

Receivers are roughly $240 (only one maker out there right now).

Putting it together requires Mig and Tig welding and isn't as easy as re-assembling. Plan on $500-600 for the build including the finish but I forgot your 922 parts.

If you're going for price you can't beat sub-$900 PTR's that are on the market right now.

[Fiorina]

Youre right, sorry about that, Cetme kit. I looked at a bunch of things and mixed up my sites. Ive looked at the PTRs a littel bit but i dont know anybody that owns one. Are they reliable? I would definitely buy one, i just dont want a crapshoot with if i get a good one or not.

[Andy2205]

Originally Posted by Fiorina

Youre right, sorry about that, Cetme kit. I looked at a bunch of things and mixed up my sites. Ive looked at the PTRs a littel bit but i dont know anybody that owns one. Are they reliable? I would definitely buy one, i just dont want a crapshoot with if i get a good one or not.

The PTR rifles are very well built. The best bet out there for a PTR right now would be the GI version. They are not the same as the other PTR rifles in that the barrels are built with a looser tolerance. They will run on any surplus ammo. The other PTR rifles are a bit finicky as to what ammo they will run on. The difference is supposedly in the chamber fluting.

GI model (just as an example)
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/inde...=23&Itemid=729

[Ghost]

Just curious what it would take to bring one of these up to G3 "clone" spec. Minus the FA capability of course.

[wkendwarrior2003]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Just curious what it would take to bring one of these up to G3 "clone" spec. Minus the FA capability of course.

I suppose it would depend on what version you were trying to clone, but for simplicity's sake:

Paddle mag release

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3magcatch.html

Triple frame with grenade tension ring (old or newer style)

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3frontsight.html

Bayonet adapter

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3bayo.html

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by wkendwarrior2003

I suppose it would depend on what version you were trying to clone, but for simplicity's sake:

Paddle mag release

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3magcatch.html

Triple frame with grenade tension ring (old or newer style)

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3frontsight.html

Bayonet adapter

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3bayo.html

Darn it I don't need to want another rifle right now! Is there a reason nobody makes a G3 other than original with the paddle mag release?

[wkendwarrior2003]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Darn it I don't need to want another rifle right now! Is there a reason nobody makes a G3 other than original with the paddle mag release?

I feel your pain man. I agonized for many moons because the rifle I had begun to become so hopelessly endeared with was not built by anyone the way that I wanted it out-of-the-box. All my G3 types are custom builds for this reason.

I think it is essentially because of the added hassle involved with installing a mag release paddle in the BATFE approved manner that PTR 91 does not perform this work on their own out-of-the-box guns...but then again, they installed mag release paddles (albeit different ones) on all of their PTR32s, so who knows why they can't do it for one of their "GI" models.

I think also the fact that 99% of semi-auto G3 type guns sold in the U.S. (going back to the 70's era HK41s) had or have no mag release paddle probably contributes to many people being rather indifferent to its presence...
hell, my first G3 type rifle, a Century C91 (sold off LOOOOOOOOOONG ago, good riddance!) didn't have a mag release paddle, and I initially did not even know G3s were supposed to have one until I researched more.

If enough people don't request/demand the feature, PTR must not consider it to be worth the extra time and money.

[tywest]

The paddle magazine release is not a big deal to install. And rollin a flat isnt either for some one mechanically inclined and adheres to specs.

The flat is about $60. I wont say its a piece of cake but my first wasnt bad just time consuming due to measuring during the bending. I still have my bending jig in the basement I fabbed up.

Even a cetme kit for that price is about right, they were $159 w/o barrels when i did them. The US parts are near needles in haystacks at this point though or youll pay dearly for them. FMP G3 kits come up for sale quite often and there are some old century cast stainless recievers on theoutdoorstrader.com for $100 each now as well. I like the rifles, recoil is comparitively delayed and more of a delayed push. Takes getting used to but is gentle as anything ive shot.

[Artful]

As my old faulty memory has it - cutting the shelf and drilling the hole in the receiver for the push pin to take a pinned trigger assembly was "making" a machinegun per BATFE back in the 80's - so you had to modify an existing shelf style trigger assembly that was NOT designed to take the paddle release.

Though nominally the same as the G-3, and able to use standard G-3 scope mounts, magazines, and other accessories, the HK-91 is legally required to have some modifications made, that will not permit it to be fired in the select fire mode, nor be easily converted to so fire. The most obvious are the replacement of the select fire trigger group, and the fitting of a modified bolt carrier group. In addition, the receiver has a "shelf" welded on, to prevent future installation of a select fire group.

One other modification, by which an HK-91 may be easily recognized, is the change in the style of the magazine catch. The G-3 has a paddle style catch, like that of an AK-47. The catch sits very near the magazine well, permitting easy one handed magazine changes. The HK-91 magazine catch is a button style catch, which needs to be depressed, like that of a semi auto pistol. One of the side effects of the different style catch, is that inserting and locking a magazine in place, in an HK-91, can take a bit of practice

http://www.notpurfect.com/main/hk91.htm

Button Style - Ala HK91

Paddle Style - ALA G-3


http://www.robertrtg.com/g3paddle.html

- there is a modified paddle release (goes side to side - and designed for left thumb to engage when grabbing mag) look up Tac Latch.
http://www.taclatch.com/

review
http://www.taclatch.com/sar.htm

If you have to have the original style front to back mag release (ala AK47, M14 or FAL) then you'll need to drop about 200+ with a specialty smith.

Actually Googlage found an inexpensive link
http://www.triggerwork.net/paddlemag.html

I have say I prefer the FAL recoil to my HK 91 recoil. I have a Tac Latch on my HK and works well as long as I'm using my left hand to grab the mag.
Hopefully you will have an opportunity to try G-3 clone before embarking on making one.

[tywest]

1/8 drill bit through one side and slightly into the other to make a blind hole for a 1/8th pin to go through. Install paddle release and bushing kit a la robertrtg and hole in place via pin. weld over through hole and done.

far as i know this is the only batf approved method

and yes if you go through the other side you have made a MG

[Kingtubby]

I can add a bit about where they are at since I researched the fluting/ammo issue when I bought my second, a KF or carbine length rifle (also have a GI), with the match barrel that had the fluting issues in the past.

Per the fellow I spoke to at PTR, Chris I think his name was (head of customer service dept), as of 2011, PTR addressed the fluting issue by cutting the chamber flutes deeper than they had previously, bringing them into spec with the original g3 design. As was mentioned above, the new GI model never had the shallow flute issues, but also doesnt sport the match grade heavier and more accurate barrel. (Still looking for a reason to care about this from the perspective of my abilities.)

The shallow flutes caused issues with cycling tar sealed ammo cause the flutes would become clogged with the tar quite quickly. The only ammo types I heard of were winchester white box and some types of SA surplus, but dont quote me on the surplus source. Personally, I think you will at some point risk possible issues with tar sealed ammo in a fluted chamber no matter how deep the cut, its just a question of how many rounds before the flutes get gummed up enough to inhibit proper cycling. Kinda like oil and water, flutes and tar are.

Anyways, that issue aside, the ptr is a great rifle. Bolt gap holds like a champ, cycling and ejection are strong, rifles are accurate, fit and function are spot on. Compare that to the cetme I have, and I got one of the good ones...well, there is no comparison. PTR is the DSArms of the g3 world.

Also, as mentioned above, AF is a great place to get a PTR. Their current $900 tag is on par with the best. And, my understanding from the PTR rep is they do a lot of business together and AF's stock is all recent serial #'s, having none of the issues from years past.