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Old December 02, 2017, 11:38   #1
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Tax Reform Passes Senate

Well, it looks like Trump won one, and the dems did not give him one vote. It was 51-49.

The Individual mandate on Obamacare was not cut out, but that will happen eventually.

Immigration and DACA will be next, and will be a real bloodbath. Getting rid of the chain migration, is what the democrats fear most.

Ten million came here under family re-unification since 2005...all were given green cards, and all shit the bed just like illegals, and are deported like illegals too, when they break the law. We must stop them from getting to the shoreline.

America for "Americans".
Xenophobia is good.
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Old December 02, 2017, 11:45   #2
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It is said that if you were born 35 years ago you have never worked in a booming economy in America. If this gets the economy moving again America will enjoy prosperity like it should. Here is to hope
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Old December 02, 2017, 11:48   #3
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It is said that if you were born 35 years ago you have never worked in a booming economy in America. If this gets the economy moving again America will enjoy prosperity like it should. Here is to hope
I hope you're right. A lot of us need a good 5 or so years to set up retirement
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Old December 02, 2017, 12:01   #4
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Just opinion and I am no economist but the tax change will make some states grow like crazy and some wont. Those in a good state will see growth like we should have but the high tax states will just chug along.

Oregon has no real industry because our left wing government drove them out. They depend on small businesses up from kali for growth but it cost far too much for the help to live here. Just down the street in a nice neighborhood there are 8 adults living in one house. Oregon won't do well under the new tax plan because they are anti business, look how they treat business in portlandia.

I think the future looks real good for those states who grab onto it.
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Old December 02, 2017, 13:07   #5
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Well, it looks like Trump won one, and the dems did not give him one vote. It was 51-49.
Even bigger deficits = winning.


Not one penny cut in spending.





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Old December 02, 2017, 13:15   #6
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Staying on the Obama course leads right to a Caliphate.

Trying to stimulate the economy usually works to increase GDP and therefore increased sales and income taxes are generated, because workers with a job, buy things and pay income taxes.

Obama tired to destroy the economy with Obamcare, high taxes on Businesses, EPA, CFPB regs and other scurilous economic crap.

It has to be at least a wash, if not a huge boom time 'a coming.
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Old December 02, 2017, 13:21   #7
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Staying on the Obama course leads right to a Caliphate.

Trying to stimulate the economy usually works to increase GDP and therefore increased sales and income taxes are generated, because workers with a job, buy things and pay income taxes.

Obama tired to destroy the economy with Obamcare, high taxes on Businesses, EPA, CFPB regs and other scurilous economic crap.

It has to be at least a wash, if not a huge boom time 'a coming.
It will be a boom in those states that want work, I doubt the west coast will boom much.
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Old December 02, 2017, 13:40   #8
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It will be a boom in those states that want work, I doubt the west coast will boom much.
Agreed. I doubt we'll see much boom on the west coast. However, as long as the jobs don't leave the west coast, those that have jobs will be able to continue to feed their families....and, national growth is still a net positive to the 401K.
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Old December 02, 2017, 13:46   #9
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The stock market bubble that was blown by Obama, Yellen, and the international banker criminals that Installed them to artificially hold interest rates low and quantitatively ease the shaft in our asses while shoveling free money their way is gonna burst and trump and his policies will be blamed.
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Old December 02, 2017, 14:09   #10
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Agreed. I doubt we'll see much boom on the west coast. However, as long as the jobs don't leave the west coast, those that have jobs will be able to continue to feed their families....and, national growth is still a net positive to the 401K.
The west coast will keep their residents from earning a good living, they will keep wages low and the cost of living way too high. It's been that way for decades since the left took over.
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Old December 02, 2017, 14:14   #11
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Even bigger deficits = winning.


Not one penny cut in spending.





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Well at least life will be more comfortable before the collapse.
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Old December 02, 2017, 14:16   #12
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Robbing from the Poor, giving to the rich, Dennis Moore....... silly bitch!
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Old December 02, 2017, 23:39   #13
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Even bigger deficits = winning.


Not one penny cut in spending.





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This.

The problem has never been a lack of money coming in, the problem is where the money goes. Spending is out of control, and neither party seems to want to do anything about it.
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Old December 03, 2017, 00:18   #14
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This.

The problem has never been a lack of money coming in, the problem is where the money goes. Spending is out of control, and neither party seems to want to do anything about it.
Under the deep state you would be right but spending has allready changed under Trump. Once he gets regulations under control and the wall built this country should grow like a fire.
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Old December 03, 2017, 00:30   #15
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J - we're past the "event horizon" on cutting spending - the end game is assured it's just how fast we get there - I vote for rip the bandaid off instead of hair by hair, there is no turning this ship around at this point.
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Old December 03, 2017, 01:10   #16
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This tax bill is awful.
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Old December 03, 2017, 01:50   #17
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Just chill and wait and see what your taxes look like come April 2018.

If your Fed taxes don't go down but your State taxes go up and you wind-up paying more than last year (Over-all) then just don't file and respond with an empty form with the words "Get your shit together" scrawled-upon it in big black magic marker and wait and see what they do besides send you letters in red ink.

Ignore those letters and move your money where you can maintain access to it.

If enough of us do this they will get a clue.

Are they going to kill everyone of us?

I'm getting too old to GAS.

Those corporate tax reductions must be made to be passed along to the consumer otherwise, NO DEAL.

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Old December 03, 2017, 02:02   #18
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The west coast will keep their residents from earning a good living, they will keep wages low and the cost of living way too high. It's been that way for decades since the left took over.
That is not a west coast phenomenon. That's just big business in America. Its been that way for 200 years. The influx of new cheap labor and the export of high paying jobs to 3rd world countries is what the new world order is all about.
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Old December 03, 2017, 07:45   #19
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J - we're past the "event horizon" on cutting spending - the end game is assured it's just how fast we get there - I vote for rip the bandaid off instead of hair by hair, there is no turning this ship around at this point.

Agreed, but it is funny how the goofs here think this tax bill is going to boost growth when we are already saturated in debt and cheap money.

The same goofs would be bitching if this tax bill was passed under Obama because it adds to the deficit.

And what major US corp ever paid at those claimed 35% tax rates always?





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Old December 03, 2017, 09:24   #20
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Who was the last president to lower the deficit?
How many presidents have raised it?
How long ago was it that the budget was balanced?
What kind of business practice is it, that when you run out your limit to go into debt, you simply raise the limit and keep on borrowing?
What kind of business practice is it when in the face of huge debt, a company still votes to give itself pay raises?

Whatever people may see as a positive on the front end of this BS bill will find it taken away in the back end, the gov't gives up nothing for free.

Companies never paid the 35% rate, too many loop holes and most big companies keep 90% or more of their profit overseas where US tax code can't touch it.

I loathe politicians, it's always the same old broken record and nothing ever changes. Regardless of who's elected, regardless of the time, regardless of the mood of the culture of Americans, we are always looking at a huge shit sandwich. These rats (no offense, Ratas!) have one primary goal, to stay in office at all costs. They care fcuk-all about the country or it's inhabitants and it shows.
The gov't of this land needs a giant purge.
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Old December 03, 2017, 11:15   #21
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Trump is the Purge, I see it working every day.
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Old December 03, 2017, 17:49   #22
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....... but spending has allready changed under Trump.
Oh?
The federal govt spends about $4 trillion a year, how much has Trump cut or changed?





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Old December 03, 2017, 19:06   #23
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Here is a calculator of your tax under the new plan.


http://taxplancalculator.com
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Old December 03, 2017, 19:34   #24
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Here is a calculator of your tax under the new plan.


http://taxplancalculator.com
Interesting. I lose under both house and senate bill. Make a good chunk of change, itemize my deductions so I don't benefit from standard deduction going up. Lose some of my deductions but it still doesn't make sense to take standard.
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Old December 03, 2017, 21:08   #25
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Here is a calculator of your tax under the new plan.


http://taxplancalculator.com
Nice calculator but it doesn't describe what the "Income" number is.

Is it gross or adjusted or what?
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Old December 03, 2017, 21:33   #26
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I don't know who put it together but it's the first one I have seen.
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Old December 04, 2017, 13:14   #27
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Here is another analysis....

Tax Bill Analysis: Spend Your Extra $100 Wisely

In the Senate tax bill, someone making $100K gets an extra $100 to spend in 2027. Those making less than $75K lose money

Tax reform was supposed to be simpler, more fair, not add to the deficit. and lower taxes on the middle class. It did none of those things, but it did lower taxes on corporations to 20%.

Simpler - No

The Senate version kept the complicated and much despised Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).

Senate Tax Brackets 7 vs House 4

Individual tax cuts expire after 2025

More Fair - No

https://www.themaven.net/mishtalk/ec...0UC6k8SQ6dgJBQ





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Old December 04, 2017, 15:20   #28
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I save between $400-$800 dollars either as a single payer or head of household, compared to the Bush-Obama years, and that is before I know how much property tax I can deduct.

the big deal is lower taxes on busineses that will spur business and job growth--it has to.
95 million unemployed...if only 25 million get jobs.......... they pay income taxes, and sales taxes...................everthing booms.

25 million x $4,000 income tax = A LOT OF MONEY! Up to half a trillion and more in increased tax revenues.
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Old December 04, 2017, 17:58   #29
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well, without cutting spending or at the very least holding the line .......

I do not see the kind of benefit that is being touted by some politicians

understand something has to be done to stimulate the economy ......

there must be velocity of money, (how fast it runs thru the system)

but at the same time there must be value created with wealth

we cannot sustain on a services based economy,

since 2000 and then again in 2008 we have not had a hard reset ......

just kicking the can down the road only makes things worse

and it appears that all politicians are not interested in fixing the Republic
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Old December 04, 2017, 18:46   #30
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the big deal is lower taxes on busineses that will spur business and job growth--it has to.
95 million unemployed...if only 25 million get jobs.......... they pay income taxes, and sales taxes...................everthing booms.

Nope.
Corps never paid that 35% rate, so there isn't going to be any boom.
Will spend the windfall by more gobbling up other firms, stock buybacks, stock dividends etc..... but any investment will be in automation and robotics.

You can't fix an aging, anti free market, crony capital system, kept afloat on virtually interest free money, saturated in debt by cutting taxes for those who already have a oversized political influence.

Tard, who do you think wrote this tax abomination that our legislators never read before passing it??

If any of this worked we wouldn't have the massively overvalued stockmarket, at historic highs WITH record unemployment/under employment and stagnant wages for 4 decades that we currently have.





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Old December 04, 2017, 19:06   #31
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WTF!!!!!!



Lupins! About as useful as Tulips?
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Old December 04, 2017, 21:34   #32
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Thanks for the laughs and keeping it in perspective . . .

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Old December 06, 2017, 17:51   #33
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CPR's take on the 'tax reform'.
Of course he is an economist and not a retired highway worker.


I deplore the tax cut that has passed Congress. It is not an economic policy tax cut, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with supply-side economics. The entire purpose is to raise equity prices by providing equity owners with more capital gains and dividends. In other words, it is legislation that makes equity owners richer, thus further polarizing society into a vast arena of poverty and near-poverty and the One Percent, or more precisely a fraction of the One Percent wallowing in billions of dollars. Unless our rulers can continue to control the explanations, the tax cut edges us closer to revolution resulting from complete distrust of government.

The current tax legislation drops the corporate tax rate to 20%. This means that global corporations registered in the US will be taxed at a lower income tax rate than a licensed practical nurse making $50,000 per year. The nurse, if single, faces in 2017 a 25% marginal tax rate on all income over $37,950.

A single person is taxed at a rate of 33% on all income above $191,651. 33% was the top tax rate extracted from medieval serfs, and approaches the tax rate on US 19th century slaves. Such an upper middle class income as $191,651 sounds extraordinary to most Americans, but it is so far from the multi-million dollar annual incomes of the rich as to be invisible. In America, it is the shrinking middle and upper middle class incomes that bear the burden of income taxation. The rich with their capital gains from their equity holdings are taxed at 15%.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12...er-capitalism/





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Old December 07, 2017, 10:39   #34
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I find it amusing that some here still don't understand real world economics. I have even heard Libtards say that Reaganomics was an utter failure!! Where the heck were they living at the time, under a rock?
Sorry to break it to many, but supply side economics does work.
Entice corporations and you add jobs, you add to the taxable base and you actually increase the amount of taxes collected. Hopefully they can work on the other end and start to decrease spending and make an attempt to payoff the deficit.
The deficit is the main culprit in slowing our R&D for our space program. We have given up our technological edge and we need to invest to regain it. We cannot allow the socialists to condemn humanity to survival mode on this planet. They drive up spending, they formed the swamp. Time for the corrupt bureaucrats to go away. This is our government and anything that interferes with our ability to make our government more efficient must also go. Government employee unions, Liberal foundations and even government programs that seek to enslave vast blocks of our population through economic payouts. So called entitlements are nothing more than a vote buying scheme concocted by some sleezeballs a century ago. It is truly time to drain the swamp and give decent hardworking people a chance to get ahead in this last great vestige of Capitalism and individual freedom.
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Old December 07, 2017, 13:16   #35
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I find it amusing that some here still don't understand real world economics. I have even heard Libtards say that Reaganomics was an utter failure!! Where the heck were they living at the time, under a rock?
Sorry to break it to many, but supply side economics does work.
Entice corporations and you add jobs, you add to the taxable base and you actually increase the amount of taxes collected. Hopefully they can work on the other end and start to decrease spending and make an attempt to payoff the deficit.
The deficit is the main culprit in slowing our R&D for our space program. We have given up our technological edge and we need to invest to regain it. We cannot allow the socialists to condemn humanity to survival mode on this planet. They drive up spending, they formed the swamp. Time for the corrupt bureaucrats to go away. This is our government and anything that interferes with our ability to make our government more efficient must also go. Government employee unions, Liberal foundations and even government programs that seek to enslave vast blocks of our population through economic payouts. So called entitlements are nothing more than a vote buying scheme concocted by some sleezeballs a century ago. It is truly time to drain the swamp and give decent hardworking people a chance to get ahead in this last great vestige of Capitalism and individual freedom.

No it didn't work.
Regan simply cut taxes, increased spending and began the rapid increase in the deficit.

The result has been unprecedented government debt. Reagan has tripled the Gross Federal Debt, from $900 billion to $2.7 trillion. Ford and Carter in their combined terms could only double it. It took 31 years to accomplish the first postwar debt tripling, yet Reagan did it in eight.
https://mises.org/library/sad-legacy-ronald-reagan-0

Spending money you don't have does give the facade of a better std of living or economy, till the bill comes due.


The economy would improve if govt ended public and corp welfare, slash govt, ended crony capitalism, ended international welfare, ended all our losing wars, ended the FED and Wall St skimming the cream of of every new dollar created, and came out with REAL tax reform, simplified, flat tax, etc....

But obviously none of that will be coming out of the 2 parties.





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Old December 07, 2017, 13:19   #36
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I find it amusing that some here still don't understand real world economics. I have even heard Libtards say that Reaganomics was an utter failure!! Where the heck were they living at the time, under a rock?
Sorry to break it to many, but supply side economics does work.
Entice corporations and you add jobs, you add to the taxable base and you actually increase the amount of taxes collected. Hopefully they can work on the other end and start to decrease spending and make an attempt to payoff the deficit.
The deficit is the main culprit in slowing our R&D for our space program. We have given up our technological edge and we need to invest to regain it. We cannot allow the socialists to condemn humanity to survival mode on this planet. They drive up spending, they formed the swamp. Time for the corrupt bureaucrats to go away. This is our government and anything that interferes with our ability to make our government more efficient must also go. Government employee unions, Liberal foundations and even government programs that seek to enslave vast blocks of our population through economic payouts. So called entitlements are nothing more than a vote buying scheme concocted by some sleezeballs a century ago. It is truly time to drain the swamp and give decent hardworking people a chance to get ahead in this last great vestige of Capitalism and individual freedom.
Economics major here. The reason trickle down doesn't work is the theory of a consumer's marginal propensity to consume. Meaning if I give somebody one more dollar how much of it will they spend therefore creating economic expansion. If I give a dollar to poor people they spend 100-120%. So I get a lot of economic bang for my buck. If I give a dollar to the top 1% they spend .50 and to the .1% they spend .2. The money does not trickle down because it doesn't get spent. They already have everything they want.
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Old December 07, 2017, 15:39   #37
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Economics major here. The reason trickle down doesn't work is the theory of a consumer's marginal propensity to consume. Meaning if I give somebody one more dollar how much of it will they spend therefore creating economic expansion. If I give a dollar to poor people they spend 100-120%. So I get a lot of economic bang for my buck. If I give a dollar to the top 1% they spend .50 and to the .1% they spend .2. The money does not trickle down because it doesn't get spent. They already have everything they want.
I doubt that .50 just sits there, most who have extra invest it. Folks may have every "thing" they want but still the greed factor drives them to earn more for security.
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Old December 07, 2017, 16:04   #38
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Economics major here. The reason trickle down doesn't work is the theory of a consumer's marginal propensity to consume. Meaning if I give somebody one more dollar how much of it will they spend therefore creating economic expansion. If I give a dollar to poor people they spend 100-120%. So I get a lot of economic bang for my buck. If I give a dollar to the top 1% they spend .50 and to the .1% they spend .2. The money does not trickle down because it doesn't get spent. They already have everything they want.
^^^ Much truth here. Simple acquisition of wealth does not churn the economy the same way consumer spending does.
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Old December 07, 2017, 20:22   #39
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Spending money you don't have does give the facade of a better std of living or economy, till the bill comes due.


The economy would improve if govt ended public and corp welfare, slash govt, ended crony capitalism, ended international welfare, ended all our losing wars, ended the FED and Wall St skimming the cream of of every new dollar created, and came out with REAL tax reform, simplified, flat tax, etc....

But obviously none of that will be coming out of the 2 parties.





..................juanni
Agreed.
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Old December 07, 2017, 23:28   #40
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I doubt that .50 just sits there, most who have extra invest it. Folks may have every "thing" they want but still the greed factor drives them to earn more for security.
Yes but invested assets just drive up asset prices. They don't create monetary velocity.
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Old December 08, 2017, 01:44   #41
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Until the masses of unemployed and indigents drawing welfare are back to making a paycheck with jobs nothing will get better.

The social climate will devolve unless this happens as well.

WE are still dealing with the after-effects of "Monetary Easing" (Hyperinflation) in order to patch-over the bailouts instead of pricing stocks and monetary holdings to their actual value to keep the upper class (1%) afloat, so nothing will improve until those who need to take a haircut just go ahead and do it yet they have too much to lose for it to happen and they are very well connected.

Eventually the common person figures this out en-mass and this thing gets ugly.

But the sky will still be there tomorrow . . .

Best!

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Old Today, 17:11   #42
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Nope.
Corps never paid that 35% rate, so there isn't going to be any boom.
Will spend the windfall by more gobbling up other firms, stock buybacks, stock dividends etc..... but any investment will be in automation and robotics.

.................juanni
Well didn't have to wait long to see this would be coming to pass.

Share buybacks spike dropping a strong hint at what CEOs plan to do with tax savings

Forget trickle-down economics: Shareholders, not workers, will be big beneficiaries of tax reform and repatriation holiday

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sh...ngs-2017-12-08




................juanni
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