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Old April 15, 2018, 13:16   #1
Grahamneall
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Trilux SUIT Cover & Mount - Group Buy ??

It's apparent there are more Trilux SUIT scopes than Inch/Metric Top Covers & Mounts. In most cases there are more Izzy scopes available which are mated with an Izzy AR mount...and in most cases, if you want to buy a Top Cover & Mount, you will need to buy it complete with the scope, which you already may have (?).

I am talking to the folks in the UK who are selling Inch/Metric Top Covers & Mounts. They use 'original' Top Covers mated to a very well made reproduction mount. Nothing flimsy which comes loose.

Currently they are priced in the $200 range, plus shipping from the UK. In addition, import duty (taxes) may be applicable (there are ways around the duty).

Personally, I believe the price is too high, plus the inconvenience of dealing overseas, changing currency exchange rates and the transfer of funds overseas.

They have indicated they would work on pricing for volume purchases.

I would be happy to organize a 'Group Buy' if we can generate the interest.
We don't need (say) a hundred....just enough to satisfy 10, 15, 25 or so.
Payment would be made here in the US (Paypal etc...not a fan of going to the Post office for Money Orders) and shipping would be done from here in the US.

Currently, they are out of stock but preparing to start another manufacturing run, so timing is perfect. I'm no expert, but I believe the easiest way would be to order Inch Pattern (with tabs) and Metric users would need to cut/grind off the tabs (somebody please confirm). This would save money on the manufacturing process and help reduce our cost.

Please respond via this post but for placing order use my regular email (easier to track);
gneall@sbcglobal.net

Cheers,
Graham.
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Old April 16, 2018, 14:59   #2
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Surely there is a need for these ?

These last few weeks there has been several WTB posts.....and scopes for sale...mostly without mounts/covers.

Apologies in advance, but I didn't post this in the 'Group Buy' area, since it was not an actual Group Buy....just a post to check the interest.

Cheers,
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Old April 16, 2018, 15:46   #3
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The price of L1A1 top covers is very restrictive here in the UK at £40+ if you can find them.
It could be a cheaper option to use metric covers, ( more metric covers available in Europe )
ok no tabs but they would be reproductions anyway and you would have to get close to tell the difference,
also it opens the group buy to those misguided ones that run metric FAL's but still want to have a SUIT sight.
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Old April 16, 2018, 16:01   #4
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i have several izzy and brit scopes on brit mounts that were sold for about $250 per set back in 2005 or thereabouts. what is the current value for a brit set, or an izzy on brit.
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Old April 16, 2018, 17:26   #5
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No expert on the difference between metric & inch covers, other than the inch have the tabs. I did have an inch with tabs and noticed it was (maybe) 18" shorter in length.....???

As for pricing....it's all over the place...scope by itself, depending on condition can sell for under $300 and over well over $300.

Add a mount, if you can find one and the prices go crazy...seen them at $500 for a nice one.

I just need a metric cover & mount....as do others, hence original post.

Cheers,
Graham.
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Old April 16, 2018, 17:27   #6
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Meant 1/8" shorter (duh !!)
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Old April 16, 2018, 17:51   #7
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Here's an example of price.....
Note the starting bid and where it's at now.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/763150868
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Old April 16, 2018, 17:52   #8
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Do you have details on the mounts? If they are like the ones you typically find over here in the US, the rivets fail. I'd pay careful attention to what type of rivet is used.
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Old April 16, 2018, 19:31   #9
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https://www.ds-solutions.co.uk/index...product_id=216

LINK^^^^^^

FROM THE PAGE VVVVVVVV



Description
Reviews (0)

These are reproduction L1A1 SLR top cover mounts for the L2A1 or A2, Sight Unit Infantry Trilux (or SUIT Sight, often refered to as the 'Suet sight').

These are made from original SLR top covers and original bridging pieces with new machined 'T' pieces faithfully copied from an original sight mount. The top cover simply replaces the plain top cover on the rifle, no special fitting is required. To fit the SUIT to the mount the front latch lever is lifted and held fully to the rear. The elevation adjusting point on the front of the sight is fitted into the groove at the front of the 'T' piece and the elevation cams on the sight aligned with the rear of the 'T' piece. The latch is then pushed down fully until it clicks into place. The sight is then held firmly in place under the tension of the latch spring. Removal is the reverse. The iron sights on the rifle can be used once the SUIT is removed without having to remove the top cover mount.

The mounts are fully refinished and are in new and unissued condition and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from original mountings. The mounts are spot welded and riveted in place as the originals are and are not stripable.

Unit of sale; 1 top cover assembly with mount.

Original NATO Stock Number; B1/1005-99-965-2865

Stock No; SLR63

Please note that the SUIT shown in the pictures is for illustrative purposes only and is NOT included in the sale.
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If there's rust, refinish. If not, leave it. If it's Suncorite, do whatever you want.
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Old April 16, 2018, 20:45   #10
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DS Solutions assured me these are solid mounts and will not come loose.
Per their description; ".....spot welded & riveted...."

Graham
Texas
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Old April 16, 2018, 21:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahamneall View Post
DS Solutions assured me these are solid mounts and will not come loose.
Per their description; ".....spot welded & riveted...."

Graham
Texas
Yeah, the square part is spot welded on the standard bottom, the bolt carier cover, and the T-bars are are riveted to the square tops. I have repaired these in the past with screws in place of the rivets, the rivets get a tiny bit of play, then get progressively looser with each shot.
You tap the T-bar, then locktite the screws in place.
ETA; I have also seen the T-Bars mig welded in place as well. Not gorgeous, but certainly strong enough. I would be wary of going in with the amps too high if the T-bar is cast. One of mine was brazed, really strong.
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Last edited by CH1291; April 16, 2018 at 21:16.
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Old April 17, 2018, 04:08   #12
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To be clear, I have repaired reproductions in the past. Not THESE reproductions. That's an important distinction I should have made in my post just above this one.
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Last edited by CH1291; April 17, 2018 at 06:51.
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Old April 17, 2018, 11:53   #13
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The DS Solutions mounts have the "T" piece secured with two 5mm screws that are then riveted over to look like the original rivets. also the "hook" passes through the T and the squared mount and is welded from below, fuseing all 3 parts together, the round post is also attached this way.
The T is also plug welded to the square section front and rear.
The whole mount is then spot welded to the top cover.

I may have some photos somewhere of one been made
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Old April 17, 2018, 12:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiprat View Post
The DS Solutions mounts have the "T" piece secured with two 5mm screws that are then riveted over to look like the original rivets. also the "hook" passes through the T and the squared mount and is welded from below, fuseing all 3 parts together, the round post is also attached this way.
The T is also plug welded to the square section front and rear.
The whole mount is then spot welded to the top cover.

I may have some photos somewhere of one been made
That changes everything, looks like I will have to get one, then.
Sounds like they're doing it right, in a big way.
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Old April 17, 2018, 12:15   #15
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If we can get 5, 6 or 10 buyers, we have the opportunity of a decent price reduction, not to mention shipping costs.

As mentioned, they are currently out of stock & preparing for a new run.

This is the time to place orders.

Graham
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Old April 17, 2018, 13:13   #16
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I do have 4-5 original Ts.

I have hundreds of FAL receiver covers. If one wants tabs, coulnd't one just solder it on?

Stripper guides and paras are soldered (some are spot welded.).
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Old April 17, 2018, 17:03   #17
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Here is a detailed explanation from DS Solutions regarding their manufacturing process. They can 'build to order, in either inch or metric.

This came directly to me from them....hope this help to alleviate some fears.




Hi Graham,

The mounts that we make are the same design and build as the original Brit/Aussie issue ones, that is; the bridge piece is spot welded to the actual top cover and the 'T' piece is riveted to the bridge. Welding the 'T' pieces in place would come with a virtual guarantee of distortion, not what is needed for a sight mount as you can imagine! Rivets coming loose is not a problem that we have encountered so far. It did happen occasionally with the service mounts, but it was far from an everyday occurrence and rivets can easily be tightened again. Frankly if the mounts are getting hammered enough to loosen the rivets then you are probably in the realms of cracked welds by that stage if the riveting has been properly done in the first place.

For all practical purposes the inch and metric top covers are dimensionally the same. Having said that, Brit top covers especially, have appeared in a variety of lengths - the length tolerance is quite broad - the actual positioning being fixed by the tabs. When I was working on these on a daily basis as a young Armourer it was not unusual to fit a new top cover and find anything up to an 1/8th of an inch gap at the front, you just tried different top covers until the gap seemed reasonable or disappeared. Also it was accepted practice if you found a top cover mount for a SUIT or an IWS which had cracked or missing tabs, to cut off the tab and smooth the fracture with a file, as long as the cover fitted the rifle without moving once in place.

We have a considerable number of metric top covers in stock and some inch ones as well. We can add tabs to metric covers if required when we run out of Brit ones, although it is a lot easier to do this before fixing the bridges in place. In short if you tell us that you need 7 metric and 5 inch ones for instance, we can make them to order, so to keep everyone happy it would probably be better to do it that way and get them to order what they require.
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Old April 17, 2018, 18:24   #18
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Find out what metal the rivets are! The one that failed of mine had non-ferrous rivets, which I assume was an aluminum alloy. The original mounts had steel rivets.
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Old April 17, 2018, 18:28   #19
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Quote:
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Find out what metal the rivets are! The one that failed of mine had non-ferrous rivets, which I assume was an aluminum alloy. The original mounts had steel rivets.
I don't think so. I think they were zinc. I've repaired dozens of them and whatever the original is, has a much lower melting point than aluminum. Definitely not steel.
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Old April 17, 2018, 20:08   #20
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Have asked the question (material of the rivets).
Graham.
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Old April 17, 2018, 20:52   #21
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Have asked the question (material of the rivets).
Graham.
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Old April 18, 2018, 07:04   #22
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The "rivets" are 5mm stainless steel machine screws formed to look like the original rivets.
The "T" piece is tapped and the screws hold it all together before welding the "T" to the mount.
The screw heads are then milled to look like rivet heads at the same time as the excess weld is removed so the mount sits onto the top cover
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Old April 18, 2018, 08:42   #23
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Thanks Skiprat....sez it all !!
John at DS-S assured me they are built to look exactly like the originals, using original covers.
Graham.
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Old April 18, 2018, 13:05   #24
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The mounts have the tool marks removed and sand blasted then painted with the same baked on paint used by the British Army during base overhaul of their weapons.
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Old April 18, 2018, 19:48   #25
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Again, thanks Skiprat, very informative.

Anybody ready to buy (?)......I need a few to make it worth while and reduce the overall cost, which DS-S are willing to do.
Gaham
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Old April 18, 2018, 20:19   #26
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I don't think so. I think they were zinc. I've repaired dozens of them and whatever the original is, has a much lower melting point than aluminum. Definitely not steel.
Magnets stick to the rivets on the original military mounts but not on the aftermarket mounts. Whatever the crappy rivets are on the aftermarket mounts, they are very lightweight and non-ferrous.
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Old April 18, 2018, 20:36   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahamneall View Post
Thanks Skiprat....sez it all !!
John at DS-S assured me they are built to look exactly like the originals, using original covers.
Graham.
Tx

Here are some photos of a military mount for reference in case anyone is interested:






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Old April 24, 2018, 19:28   #28
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I'm close to placing an order for these cover/mounts.
Just waiting to see what shipping cost is from UK.

I will be able to ship US (48 cont) from here in Texas.....and you have local payment to.

Any takers ?

Graham
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Old April 24, 2018, 19:49   #29
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I am in for one.
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Old April 24, 2018, 20:05   #30
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How much?
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Old April 25, 2018, 08:02   #31
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trilux suit cover & mount group buy

I am in for one, I have Imbel metric receiver
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Old April 25, 2018, 10:44   #32
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The rivets are stainless.
The overall finish is painted & baked (not Suncorite).
They can also supply them with 'Tab's for the Brit & Aussie builds.
Some maybe original with tabs, some may be attached.....so make your choice..tab's or no tab's.

A 'one off' buy from these guys in the UK is right at $200 plus shipping (they are priced in British Pounds).

However, if we can get several buyers here, I can get the price down and have them delivered in bulk, reducing the shipping cost.....even just 5 units helps but I would like to get more.

Shipping cost is what I'm working on.....then I will have a total cost FOB Texas.

Graham
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Old April 25, 2018, 23:31   #33
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I'm in for one too, I also have an Imbel and would like no tabs
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Old April 26, 2018, 09:05   #34
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Okay....maybe it's time to post in the 'Group Buy' section to list the names of those who are in.

Let's keep this thread going for question and names, which I will post in the Group Buy.

(hope I'm followng the Files posting rules ?).
Graham
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:09   #35
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This thread is very timely: I Just bought an Izzy SUIT in Marketplace. Can’t find any vendors of correct cover/mounts online, so I definitely need one of these. Count me in for 1 mount with metric cover (but if necessary I can cut the tabs off an inch version)

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Old June 25, 2018, 11:33   #36
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Here is the latest update.

I should be receiving a limited qty of both FAL (metric, no tabs) and L1A1 (inch, with tabs).

I do not have a final price yet, since I do not have the final cost to ship these to me from the UK.....I expect them to ship within the next week.

I will be offering them directly from me to your location in the lower 48; shipping included.

At the time I receive them, I would prefer any orders be placed via my regular email, as it it is easier to manage than a bunch of PM's.

I will need your FAL Files nickname, full name and shipping address.
Payment can be made using Paypal (F&F) or 'Services' by adding 3%. USPO Money Order also acceptable.

I may also be offering NOS replacement rubber eye pieces.....still to be advised.

Cheers,
Graham.
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Old June 27, 2018, 21:08   #37
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Should be shipping from UK withing the next few days, at which time I should have final cost, including shipping.

I will keep this thread bumped to keep it active...

Again, limited qty's but can also get more if needed.

Graham.
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Old June 28, 2018, 05:37   #38
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I'm starting a 'buy' list for the scope/covers.

As previously advised, I have a limited qty coming in (10 metricFAL, no tabs & 10 inch/L1A1, with tabs).

To get on the list, please do so via my regular email;
gneall@sbcglobal.net

Please provide you FAL nickname, real name with shipping address & the type of cover you want (Metric/FAL or Inch/L1A1).

I may also be getting replacement rubber eye pieces.....still to be confirmed, but if you want one, please include that in your order.

Cheer,

Grahan
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Old June 28, 2018, 05:50   #39
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I'm starting a 'buy' list for the scope/covers.

As previously advised, I have a limited qty coming in (10 metricFAL, no tabs & 10 inch/L1A1, with tabs).

To get on the list, please do so via my regular email;
gneall@sbcglobal.net

Please provide you FAL nickname, real name with shipping address & the type of cover you want (Metric/FAL or Inch/L1A1).

I may also be getting replacement rubber eye pieces.....still to be confirmed, but if you want one, please include that in your order.

Cheer,

Grahan
Tx
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Old June 28, 2018, 06:48   #40
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There are several factors that will effect the cost to the end user:
- manufacturers list price
- quantity discount, if any
- exchange rate
- shipping from U.K.
- customs duty
- sales tax (?)
- shipping from TX to destination

Final cost is still a concern for me. Ain't payin' $300 for a "dust cover" !

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Old June 28, 2018, 17:05   #41
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Final cost is still a concern for me. Ain't payin' $300 for a "dust cover" !

Me neither.....!!!!

Where does sales tax come in ?
Manufacturer's list price does not come into the price equation.
Exchange rate does not come into the equation.
I have negotiated fixed price in US dollars based on quantity ordered.
Customs Duty, if any, is still an unknown as is shipping from UK to Tx.
(there are ways around import duty, if paperwork is filled out correctly)
Shipping cost from Tx to lower 48 will be included in final cost to buyer.

If you were to order a 'single' unit directly from the manufacturer, these would cost you a little over $200, including the headache of purchasing from overseas. All I'm trying to do is make these available 'locally' (so to speak) at a price which won't break the bank.

I'm estimating they will be less than $200, including shipping to lower 48.
L1A1/Inch pattern, with tabs, will be a few dollars more.

Graham
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Old June 28, 2018, 17:30   #42
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Thanks for clarifying some of those concerns. I was just thinking how costs could “snowball” on these.

Sorry if my earlier post came across as too brusque. I certainly applaud your efforts to make this happen!
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Old June 28, 2018, 21:10   #43
Grahamneall
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FALaholic #: 62175
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 628
No offense taken....as you say, just wanted to clarify what I know.

The guys over there tend to move a little slow in the communication dep't; plus one of them is having some issues with the health of his wife, so bear with me in trying to tie-up the loose ends.

They have the units ready, I just need to get them to ship to me and let me know what the shipping costs are...Customs Duty, if applicable, will be determined after the shipment has been made.

At that point, I can figure the final sales price.

Regards,
Graham
Tx
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