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Old February 05, 2019, 19:04   #1
SWOHFAL
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BM59 - build vs. buy

Any reason to build one, other than the challenge of it, rather than buy a James River Armory model?

I see the name Tim Shuffin mentioned - I suppose he can build one better than the JRA for me?
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Old February 05, 2019, 19:35   #2
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Tim is an artist. I have three built by him. Get a kit, barrel and Garand receiver. You wonít regret it. For the barrel I had him convert 308 Garand barrels.
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Old February 05, 2019, 19:36   #3
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Originally Posted by SWOHFAL View Post
Any reason to build one, other than the challenge of it, rather than buy a James River Armory model?

I see the name Tim Shuffin mentioned - I suppose he can build one better than the JRA for me?
Shuff only uses GI receivers, and the quality is at least as good as Beretta's.

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Old February 05, 2019, 19:50   #4
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Tim will build on a Beretta or Breda receiver if you can still find one. He built mine on a Beretta from the Danish contract. Not correct but beautiful and accurate.



Some think modifying an M1 receiver is a sacrilege. YMMV
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Old February 05, 2019, 20:28   #5
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I have three built by him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeguy View Post
He built mine on a Beretta
I never had any BM59 fetish until these two yay-hoo's above started the "here shoot this one" on me every time we shoot together.

Damn nice sticks and these two know their stuff on them. Listen closely, their advice on this topic is rock solid.
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Old February 05, 2019, 20:59   #6
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Art. At least in my book.




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Old February 06, 2019, 00:11   #7
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Oh man, just what I need now that I'm retired...something else to Jones for.
Wow, those rifles look good gentlemen, all of them!
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Old February 07, 2019, 00:27   #8
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Picked this one up from Shuff and I love it, I would highly recommend him to do one for you.



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Old February 07, 2019, 02:50   #9
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So, is every BM59 posted in this thread an ITAL variant?
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Old February 07, 2019, 07:29   #10
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Yes. Except my one Italian Para
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Old February 07, 2019, 08:38   #11
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So, is every BM59 posted in this thread an ITAL variant?
As answered, yes with the exception of the Para. What Sarco is calling 'Argentine' are from Argentina, and were modified M1 Garands that came on ships given or sold to Argentina under aid programs. When Argentina standardized on 7.62 NATO, eliminating numerous calibers, and re-calibered nearly everything in inventory, they sent the Garands to Italy. I've never confirmed it, but I believe they went with the 'BM59E' simply so the guns would fit the existing racks!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BerettaBM59/files/ has PDFs, but you need to join facebook and the group.

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Old February 07, 2019, 08:51   #12
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Anyone interested in a BM59 (or cold war battle rifles) should pursue a build. Its really hard to convey just how great these rifles feel and shoot. They are very soft shooting, even with a para/folding stock. Softer than my FALs, M1As, and PTR91. Magazines are top notch and rock right in. Overall its a sweet design.
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Old February 07, 2019, 11:11   #13
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Have to warn you, while the Para and Alpini look cool, they suck to shoot.
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Old February 08, 2019, 15:11   #14
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I have one that was built for me by Tim Shufflin of Shuff's parkerizing. I provided him a Beretta Garand receiver (by way of the Danish Navy) and an E model kit that I assume to be Argentine. I also had the receiver engraved by a place in Sarasota that has a FFL and replicates the markings made by the Italians when they converted them. Came out so well that I'm looking for a new E model stock-because the rest of the rifle looks pristine. Couldn't be happier. Tim also delivered before the promised due date.
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Old February 08, 2019, 16:18   #15
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Have to warn you, while the Para and Alpini look cool, they suck to shoot.
Come shoot mine. She'll change your mind.

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Old February 08, 2019, 16:23   #16
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... I'm looking for a new E model stock-because the rest of the rifle looks pristine. Couldn't be happier. Tim also delivered before the promised due date.
Sean, a/k/a The Stock Emporium, can provide! I've shared this pic here befor4e, it's my SL/E wearing a birch stock I bought in the marketplace here and had Sean modify, works great and no walking BHO pin!


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Old February 08, 2019, 20:30   #17
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Come shoot mine. She'll change your mind.

Whatís so special about yours thatís different from mine or any other folding stock 59?
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Old February 08, 2019, 21:10   #18
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Have to warn you, while the Para and Alpini look cool, they suck to shoot.
Anything that has a wire stock smacks you in the face. You have to wrap them with something.

The BM-59 was Mel Tappan's favorite gas-operated, box fed .308 back when he wrote his books on the subject (early '80's). I've seen some nice ones around here at gun shows but I was feining for M-14 and FAL clones at the time.

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Old February 09, 2019, 18:03   #19
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Get up on your two feet and shoot the wire stock isn't bad. Its when you shoot them off the bench.
Now I couldn't imagine shooting one full auto no matter what postion
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:51   #20
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Build! Tim Shufflin crafted both of these for me



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Old February 10, 2019, 12:32   #21
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Build! Tim Shufflin crafted both of these for me
Which do you like to shoot more? I have an E already, was contemplating building an ITAL.

Eli
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Old February 10, 2019, 13:08   #22
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Tim built this one for me before they became popular and parts easy to find and cheap ,. Took me awhile to get all the parts for the build. There wasn't any parts kits then




Picture was taken of rifle before I installed the Para comp
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Old February 10, 2019, 13:53   #23
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Where can a guy find kits??
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Old February 10, 2019, 14:11   #24
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Google BM59 kits
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Old February 10, 2019, 14:14   #25
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Where can a guy find kits??

https://whatacountry.com/italian-bm5...parts-kit.aspx
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Old February 10, 2019, 14:22   #26
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What's up with all the kits missing the same 5 small parts? Are those difficult to find now?
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Old February 10, 2019, 16:01   #27
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Texgunner, I haven't been on their site in a while, but Standard Parts had the missing 3-5 parts ( I thought it was 3?)
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Old February 10, 2019, 16:21   #28
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Thanks for the info! Hey, can you post a link? I'll check them out. This one is missing five parts but that may be the exception, I only saw these.

https://www.centerfiresystems.com/p-...ord=kit-bm59ii

It looks like four are missing from these?

https://whatacountry.com/italian-bm5...parts-kit.aspx

They are just very interesting rifles to me and I would sure love to have too!
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Old February 10, 2019, 18:19   #29
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NO!!! MISSING PARTS!!!

The only place I'm aware of selling 'complete' ITAL kits - less receiver and barrel - is Numrich Gun Parts: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1572160

The 'small parts' missing from most kits are not currently available from any vendor I'm aware of!

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Old February 10, 2019, 20:32   #30
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Thanks Aliyahu, gonna order 1 now. Iíve delayed buying 1 of these kits for far too long
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Old February 10, 2019, 21:45   #31
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Thanks Aliyahu, gonna order 1 now. Iíve delayed buying 1 of these kits for far too long
Get a nice Garand receiver. As for barrels, when I did my kits there wasnít any Ital barrels available. I got a .308 Garand barrel (e.g. Criterion) and sent it all to Shuff.
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Old February 10, 2019, 22:14   #32
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Build. Both top and bottom ones were built by Tim on Garand receivers. The bottom one is a BM-14, his creation which takes M-14 mags.

The one in the middle is a JRA, the small run they made in the beginning with modified Garand receivers. I would not buy their cast receiver.
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Old February 10, 2019, 23:08   #33
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Get a nice Garand receiver. As for barrels, when I did my kits there wasnít any Ital barrels available. I got a .308 Garand barrel (e.g. Criterion) and sent it all to Shuff.
Thanks Ryan, hows that M1 I sold you doing?
Your collection continues to impress me!!!
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Old February 10, 2019, 23:42   #34
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Thanks Ryan, hows that M1 I sold you doing?
Your collection continues to impress me!!!
Mick, its my favorite Garand and a gift for my youngest son.
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Old February 10, 2019, 23:58   #35
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Thatís Awesome
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Old February 11, 2019, 19:41   #36
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The one in the middle is a JRA, the small run they made in the beginning with modified Garand receivers. I would not buy their cast receiver.
I was thinking of buying one. Why would you not buy one from them?
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Old February 11, 2019, 20:42   #37
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I was thinking of buying one. Why would you not buy one from them?
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Old February 12, 2019, 01:35   #38
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I bought one with the cast receiver

FWIW it has done well for me, I originally had a recalled serial # and James River made it right. I have nothing bad to say about them.
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Old February 12, 2019, 05:45   #39
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Except these rifles never should have been out in the publics hands. Have someone who knows BM59's do your build, Shuffs
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Old February 12, 2019, 09:15   #40
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FWIW it has done well for me, I originally had a recalled serial # and James River made it right. I have nothing bad to say about them.
When did you purchase yours, if you don't mind me asking.
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Old February 12, 2019, 14:10   #41
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When

I had actually bought a receiver from them when they had the preproduction sale. I was putting the parts kit together when I received notification. I sent them back my barreled receiver and parts kit, they sent me back an assembled rifle. So the receiver I had was a very early one. While I would agree Shuffs is an excellent way to go, I wanted to point out that the JRA rifle isnít as bad as some would have you believe.
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Old February 12, 2019, 14:14   #42
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I had actually bought a receiver from them when they had the preproduction sale. I was putting the parts kit together when I received notification. I sent them back my barreled receiver and parts kit, they sent me back an assembled rifle. So the receiver I had was a very early one. While I would agree Shuffs is an excellent way to go, I wanted to point out that the JRA rifle isnít as bad as some would have you believe.
I've been watching the cast vs forged dumpster fire on this site for a very long time. One person says something and 50 will follow. I appreciate the up to date information. Thanks again.
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Old February 12, 2019, 16:14   #43
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I've been watching the cast vs forged dumpster fire on this site for a very long time. One person says something and 50 will follow. I appreciate the up to date information. Thanks again.
It's not a 'cast vs. forged' thing so much as an in-spec vs out-of-spec. The raw casting JRA uses was already known to be out-of-spec, it was used for Garands several years ago was was problematic. JRA compounded the casting issues with intentionally making the forward mag catch pin out-of-spec because some ignorant dolt claimed making them in-spec would make them full-auto - it doesn't.
It's like using an Imbel FAL receiver against a Hesse. Yeah, you can make a Hesse work, but would you trust it?

Eli
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Old February 12, 2019, 16:40   #44
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It's not a 'cast vs. forged' thing so much as an in-spec vs out-of-spec. The raw casting JRA uses was already known to be out-of-spec, it was used for Garands several years ago was was problematic. JRA compounded the casting issues with intentionally making the forward mag catch pin out-of-spec because some ignorant dolt claimed making them in-spec would make them full-auto - it doesn't.
It's like using an Imbel FAL receiver against a Hesse. Yeah, you can make a Hesse work, but would you trust it?

Eli
The first thing I'm trying to ascertain is what is the issue. Depends on where you read - I have read in several places it was a small lot of 50-100 receivers that were not heat treated correctly. You say it's out-of-spec. I read what Shuff has on his sight and he said that he used to work on them but won't anymore. He has a great reputation, he's a master gunsmith - if they were that far out of spec why didn't he pick up on it? Not throwing slight at him, asking a question. There are a lot of unknowns to this, but besides this letter that doesn't narrow anything down whatsoever and is from last year, no one has any empirical data.
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Old February 12, 2019, 19:54   #45
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There were more issues than just the recall. If you google theres a lot of reading on them and problems people had ,failure to feed, failure to extract , etc . I am guessing Shuffs had them in his shop to fix these issues . Once he saw the recall he no longer wanted to be responsible for them. Who would?
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Old February 12, 2019, 21:10   #46
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Recall/ejection issues

From the info I received the recall was about the receiver. There were some issues with ejection due to a chamber finish problem with the Bula manufactured barrels. I think they had some issues with some of the M14 guns also. Art showed the solution to this issue in another thread being use of a chamber hone.I beleive he reported that bula had fixed that problem. I had not heard any failure to feed issues.
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Old February 13, 2019, 09:51   #47
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This thread has me going, think I need one of these. I see Sarco has the Italian barrels...

Guys with USGI receivers, did you tear apart working rifles for receiver or source them separately?
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Old February 13, 2019, 10:06   #48
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This thread has me thinking I need a BM59 also.

Has anyone received a Sarco BM59sl kit lately?
Just wondering what condition they are in.
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Old February 13, 2019, 10:31   #49
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This thread has me going, think I need one of these. I see Sarco has the Italian barrels...

Guys with USGI receivers, did you tear apart working rifles for receiver or source them separately?
I broke up a Field Grade, selling the parts came close to what I had in the rifle.

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This thread has me thinking I need a BM59 also.

Has anyone received a Sarco BM59sl kit lately?
Just wondering what condition they are in.
The SL kit I got from Sarco - a while back, but they're the same kits - was rather worn, think 'Field Grade' or 'Rack Grade' to use CMP terms. The BM59 stocks that come with them now are missing the rubber butt pad and related hardware - good luck finding replacements - but they include a NIW 'Tipo 2' stock that you can send to The Stock Emporium and have modified for magazine clearance and the bolt hold-open. The stock on my rifle (pictured above) is a T2 stock that Sean modified, it uses the standard M1 butt plate and eliminates the issue of the BHO pin walking out on standard BM59 stocks.
My Sarco SL kit also came with a current aftermarket rear sight, or at least some of the parts were aftermarket.

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Old February 13, 2019, 10:32   #50
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This thread has me thinking I need a BM59 also.

Has anyone received a Sarco BM59sl kit lately?
Just wondering what condition they are in.
Someone said in one of these threads that Numrich parts kits aren't missing any parts, while some others are missing 4-5. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1572160
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