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Old June 10, 2018, 07:52   #1
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XM21 Bliss in 6.5 Creedmoor

Perfect morning for a little shooting.
Temp. 62F, no wind and overcast. My kinda day.
Setting up the Bula XM21 6.5 Creedmoor NM barrel in USGI fiberglass stock with SWFA SS 10x Scope . S model Harris bipod with MIM "S" lock. 130 gr Bergers in Starline brass.
Doesn't get any better than this.







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Old June 10, 2018, 08:33   #2
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Very nice Art. Question; who makes the FH/brake you have mounted?
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Old June 10, 2018, 08:45   #3
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That is a SEI Vortex direct connect.
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Old June 10, 2018, 09:27   #4
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Thanks. Just traded into an M14 clone on an LRB receiver. Seller thought the FH was custom made but it looks just like yours. Any manufacturer markings on yours? None on mine.
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Old June 10, 2018, 09:36   #5
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Just looked over 8 of mine , standard, ribbed and both styles for the Socom barrels and there are no markings on any of them .

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Old June 10, 2018, 10:30   #6
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What kind of groups are you getting? Any reason for going with the 130's over 140's or 147's?

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Old June 10, 2018, 10:58   #7
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Quote:
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What kind of groups are you getting? Any reason for going with the 130's over 140's or 147's?

Cheers!
This is what I am working on. Sub min for the first 6-8 rnds then it immediately opens up to 2.5 min. Clean the barrel and right back to sub min without any real cool down. Had this once before on another rifle and a new crown cured the problem.
Just finished a re-crown and will give it a try another time. A couple of nicks seem to have been collecting carbon and creating trouble.
I am only shooting to 300 for the time being, so the 130s work fine. I do have all the rest on the shelf, but no need at the moment.
With my Savage Stealth in 6.5 I run right around .25 moa most of the time.
I would go back and try the rifle I just put a new crown on , but my neck is killing me. Used to be able to shoot prone all day , now 15 to 20 minutes and I am done in.
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Old September 05, 2018, 18:55   #8
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So is this configuration the way to go Art?
Kinda itching for another rifle
Thanks
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Old September 12, 2018, 21:12   #9
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So is this configuration the way to go Art?
Kinda itching for another rifle
Thanks
I like it, but then, I like them all.
Best configuration, in my opinion for any M14 to produce it's best accuracy is a JAE chassis.

This is my latest in .308. Bula XM21 ver #1 with Ultra Heavy Bula barrel in a JAE topped with an inexpensive Hi Lux scope.



10 rnd grp at 100 yds. .7345 max spread with an average of just under .5 using home brew 136 gr fb bullets in DAG berdan cases, Tula primers burning Varget.

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Last edited by ArtBanks; September 12, 2018 at 21:18.
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Old September 22, 2018, 16:53   #10
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6.5 Creedmore in M1a is going to bust my chops like 6.8 spc II has in AR 15's. Basically am needing to clone the fleet of nicer 7.62 NATO rifles in 6.5 Creedmore but am unwilling to sell any of my 7.62's to finance the 6.5 Creedmore buildup plus glass and mounts. Didn't want to sacrifice any 5.56 AR's to build up the 6.8 fleet which is at 18 currently. I did tear down pairs in 20 Tactical, 204 Ruger and 300 BO then singles in 6.5 Grendel and 300 OSSM. Have finished first pair of 458 SOCOM's and waiting on a Form 1 to finish the third.

Now that purchased the Tikka T3 and M1a Loaded in 6.5 Creedmore have seen it's a better mousetrap for enough applications that must be added to the fleet. Want to do a Super Match, National Match to go with the loaded at minimum but to properly glass them is a thousand dollar bill each not counting the rifles. Have to admit have done a lot of maintenance and parts upgrades to my M1a's but have never built one from scratch.

How much if any money savings is there and what specialty tools are required to do the job? Somehow ended up with over $1,000 in AR 15 specific tools and jigs for tools like my Power Custom Hammer & Sear jig. If need another grand in specialized tooling how many builds will it take to recoup the cost? Will I be happier with home built? I build a lot of 1911's but still send my top line pistols off to a custom shop. Can build nice range pistols and defensive but feel more confident when running a 1911 built by reputable smith that wrenches on 1911's daily.

Sure I have double the investment in 1911 tools as have in poodle shooter specific tools. 10/22's were the only gun that didn't require enough investment in tools to buy a nice rifle. Only required a Power Custom stoning fixture jig, hammer and sear fitting block, Safety Spring and Plunger Installation Tool and did buy the Kidd torque driver that's preset for tightening the takedown screw for range bag to double check without having to drag a real torque wrench out when breaking in a new 10/22 build.

In M1a tools the only specific tools can remember owning are a Sadlak Gas Piston Cleaning Drill Set, cylinder wrench, combination tool and Power Custom stoning fixture. Sure will need an action wrench, barrel timing tools, bolt assembly/disassembly tools, glass bedding jigs and some tools have never even heard of specific to M1a's to do proper builds so afraid may be almost to price of rifle in the box ready to shoot just getting tools gathered up to do the job right as I am a believer in right tool for each operation. Honestly believe just two or three 6.5's will be the end of my M1a purchases as just don't need but enough to enjoy without wearing them out putting too much wear on one or two rifles. Can't see buying a Basic or SOCOM in 6.5. Three or four higher end rifles should wear me out before I wear them out.

What is cost to have someone experienced screw up an M1a? Only customs I have someone else sucked up the smith bill and I purchased off their widows. Art probably has already told heirs I I outlive him not to sell me any of his plus hope he is around long enough that will have my fleet of 6.5's bought, set up, tweaked and running and maybe he will be buying mine from my wife. Just unsure if want or need to delve into building another type rifle as once I own the tools all it will take is a single part found to justify building another rifle around.
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Old September 22, 2018, 17:26   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
6.5 Creedmore in M1a is going to bust my chops like 6.8 spc II has in AR 15's. Basically am needing to clone the fleet of nicer 7.62 NATO rifles in 6.5 Creedmore but am unwilling to sell any of my 7.62's to finance the 6.5 Creedmore buildup plus glass and mounts. Didn't want to sacrifice any 5.56 AR's to build up the 6.8 fleet which is at 18 currently. I did tear down pairs in 20 Tactical, 204 Ruger and 300 BO then singles in 6.5 Grendel and 300 OSSM. Have finished first pair of 458 SOCOM's and waiting on a Form 1 to finish the third.

Now that purchased the Tikka T3 and M1a Loaded in 6.5 Creedmore have seen it's a better mousetrap for enough applications that must be added to the fleet. Want to do a Super Match, National Match to go with the loaded at minimum but to properly glass them is a thousand dollar bill each not counting the rifles. Have to admit have done a lot of maintenance and parts upgrades to my M1a's but have never built one from scratch.

How much if any money savings is there and what specialty tools are required to do the job? Somehow ended up with over $1,000 in AR 15 specific tools and jigs for tools like my Power Custom Hammer & Sear jig. If need another grand in specialized tooling how many builds will it take to recoup the cost? Will I be happier with home built? I build a lot of 1911's but still send my top line pistols off to a custom shop. Can build nice range pistols and defensive but feel more confident when running a 1911 built by reputable smith that wrenches on 1911's daily.

Sure I have double the investment in 1911 tools as have in poodle shooter specific tools. 10/22's were the only gun that didn't require enough investment in tools to buy a nice rifle. Only required a Power Custom stoning fixture jig, hammer and sear fitting block, Safety Spring and Plunger Installation Tool and did buy the Kidd torque driver that's preset for tightening the takedown screw for range bag to double check without having to drag a real torque wrench out when breaking in a new 10/22 build.

In M1a tools the only specific tools can remember owning are a Sadlak Gas Piston Cleaning Drill Set, cylinder wrench, combination tool and Power Custom stoning fixture. Sure will need an action wrench, barrel timing tools, bolt assembly/disassembly tools, glass bedding jigs and some tools have never even heard of specific to M1a's to do proper builds so afraid may be almost to price of rifle in the box ready to shoot just getting tools gathered up to do the job right as I am a believer in right tool for each operation. Honestly believe just two or three 6.5's will be the end of my M1a purchases as just don't need but enough to enjoy without wearing them out putting too much wear on one or two rifles. Can't see buying a Basic or SOCOM in 6.5. Three or four higher end rifles should wear me out before I wear them out.

What is cost to have someone experienced screw up an M1a? Only customs I have someone else sucked up the smith bill and I purchased off their widows. Art probably has already told heirs I I outlive him not to sell me any of his plus hope he is around long enough that will have my fleet of 6.5's bought, set up, tweaked and running and maybe he will be buying mine from my wife. Just unsure if want or need to delve into building another type rifle as once I own the tools all it will take is a single part found to justify building another rifle around.
Having built dozens of M14s and not one is an M1A. I started with Polytec and Norinco receivers and then went on to LRB and now I use Bula Defense Systems with of coarse some Fultons, Fed ord and a GWLA along the way. I can tell you it's a hoot. Tools are most important. Just got back from a 2 week vacation on Kauai so I am not even going to try to list the necessary gear to do it right.
Just a suggestion, but you might want to look into the possibility of having Bula do the barreled action for you using their parts. Then , no special tools would be needed for you to add the rest of the parts to make a complete rifle.
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Old September 23, 2018, 04:28   #12
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That's the answer I needed. Was looking at tools for timing barrels and action wrenches seeing a paid for rifle before started buying parts. Will be looking for M14 armorers tools in estates but retail they are steep.Have a pile of stocks and spare parts that would lessen the sting of first few.
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Old September 23, 2018, 06:23   #13
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If you have the right stuff , it is about as simple as can be.
This is a Chinese take off barrel assembly I recently stuck on a GWLA receiver.
The same day I did 2 Fultons with similar assemblies.



A photo of the 3 of them lined up for function firing on my range last month.

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Old September 26, 2018, 20:37   #14
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Can I just get a bula barreled assembly and put the parts on and it'll run fine? Or would it need some modifications?
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Old September 27, 2018, 04:24   #15
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Sure can. I have done that with a couple of rifles.
Bula folks are great to deal with.
I am having a blast with a custom Bula XM21 in .450 Bushmaster that I brought home from Camp Perry. That rifle was completely built by Bula.
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Old September 29, 2018, 07:44   #16
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I wonder how the M14 / XM21 in 6.5 Creedmoor does at distance, letís say 300 to 500 yards.

Any experience, Art?
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Old September 29, 2018, 08:48   #17
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I have been running two XM21s in 6.5 Creedmoor for a time now and they are right in the .5 moa range with commercial ammo so they should work well out past the short range of 300 - 500 yards.
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Old September 30, 2018, 20:34   #18
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How about your opinion on swfa scope. I've got a couple mk4 s but want something for longer distance dont want to fork out the cash right now for another leupold.
Josh just got back to me on a bula barreled receiver and I still have to get all the fixings
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Old October 01, 2018, 04:39   #19
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The SWFA was an experiment for me. I was interested in one after hearing folks talk about them. The on on my camo 6.5 in this thread has only a few hundred rnd under it but is working very well. I would not hesitate to buy another if I needed more scopes.
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Old October 12, 2018, 11:37   #20
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Minus glass which is huge variable, about what to expect in cost to do a Bula build. Have a couple of complete stocks and spare parts laying around but like my spares to remain spare. Order the barreled action, buy all the giblets and such, how much cash do I need to have piled up to get to end of the build? Most definitely be a 6.5 Creedmore.
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Old October 12, 2018, 11:51   #21
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Minus glass which is huge variable, about what to expect in cost to do a Bula build. Have a couple of complete stocks and spare parts laying around but like my spares to remain spare. Order the barreled action, buy all the giblets and such, how much cash do I need to have piled up to get to end of the build? Most definitely be a 6.5 Creedmore.
I would think somewhere between 1500 - 2000 for an excellent example of a 6.5 Creedmoor Bula Defense Systems creation.
You could always give them a phone call and you will find them to be very nice to deal with. Might even be a sale of some sort going on that you could take advantage of.
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Old October 12, 2018, 11:57   #22
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Art has far more experience to draw from but I can comment on a .308 rifle I just assembled.

Bula XM21 NM profile with stripped Bula bolt installed and headspaced $695
DuPage Trading M14 parts kit sans receiver, barrel and bolt. All else included. $500.

Kit included a nicely figured birch stock but I did put mine in a SAGE EBR so added another $775. Rings and glass (Burris MTAC 4.5-14x42) set me back another $325. Oh yeah, $200 for an atlas B10 bipod.

Cant post pics from my phone but this link to pics of the build should work.

https://m14forum.com/m14/470982-xm21-sage-build.html

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Old October 12, 2018, 22:09   #23
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I will spend most money proportionately on barrel and glass. Barrel needs to be top notch from start and bolt needs to be fitted and headspace perfectly. Watched a rifle attached to a 2"◊4" for stock and screwed to a table shoot one hole groups at 250 yards once. Did find a woodland camouflage fiberglass M14 stock and a M1a Standard wood stock in the pile but would prefer a stable stock that don't need to worry about humidity or temperature affecting bedding. Have started out with mid price scope then upgrade later and then pass the starter scope down the line or steal a scope off vault queen that hasn't been fired in a couple years.

So barreled action with a real Lilja, Bartlein, Kreiger, Shilen, Douglas, etc air gauged barrel that my smith recomends based on his expertise with his builds as seen perform well due to profile, harmonics, type of rifling or voodoo. What the smith says he likes to use and sees best results with is the one thing I can't change on the fly like swapping glass. So want to buy a nice receiver and have it returned with parts the "expert" says will make me the best shooter in his opinion. Slap a decent parts kit on it and comfortable and stable stock but not necessarily expensive and see how it goes.

If smith will do the entire job at fair enough price may sub contract the entire project. But good barrel on good receiver with appropriate parts kit if do rest myself is key question. Have paid stupid money to have rifles and pistols built by "the man" in the past and don't mind doing it myself either but always willing to accept help. If build another FAL hope Stimpsonjcat will index and headspace my barrel and bolt. Stacking correct washer and pressing in correct locking lug on an L1a1 can do myself but like his method and attention to detail. So need a "I pay for just the really important work" price and finish myself then can negotiate and see if can come out better letting a professional turnkey it or detail it out myself. Art has me second guessing ordering Springfields out of the box.
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