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Old October 27, 2018, 11:28   #1
BarnOwlLover
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Thoughts on the HK433

I did find a thread on the HK433, but it's over a year in a half old and I didn't feel like resurrecting such an old thread. That, and the rifle has been updated in detail since that thread came out.

It's basically a hybrid of the G36, HK416 and has some SCAR and CZ Bren 2 features. It has a steel reinforced aluminum upper and a polymer lower. I like the G36 paddle mag release with the STANAG magazines. I also like the modular barrel change system (lengths range from 11'' to 20''). It also featured and L/R swapable G3 style charging handle.

This video is in Japanese, but it's got some of the best visuals of the newest version of the 433.

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Old October 27, 2018, 14:11   #2
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Robert O'Neil used an H&K 416 to kill Osama Bin Ladin so it speaks well of the HK to be chosen by Navy Seals in my opiion.
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Old October 27, 2018, 14:19   #3
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And in order to afford a commercial version in 2019 Iíll need to re-fi my house.
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Old October 27, 2018, 18:51   #4
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I wish I could afford one
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Old October 27, 2018, 19:02   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Robert O'Neil used an H&K 416 to kill Osama Bin Ladin so it speaks well of the HK to be chosen by Navy Seals in my opiion.
A dozen different types of rifle could have been used to that effect. What's yer point?

The charging handle location is anachronistic and puzzling on the 433.
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Old October 27, 2018, 19:22   #6
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Does anybody regular guy who owns a rifle with a "swappable" barrel actually swap back-and-forth between barrels enough to justify the oddity?

Is this sort of like the guy who changes his socks between morning meetings and afternoon tea.

Seems a bit much to me.

$1500 will buy you an AR15 capable of winning first place in the National Matches at Camp Perry, and that includes the price of the optic. Otherwise, I'm not a hater if you got money to burn, and you like collecting all sorts "unique" guns you may never shoot.
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Old October 27, 2018, 20:29   #7
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Sadly, the FN SCAR and HK416 can be placed the same realm based on price. If you're a die-hard collector, then go for it. But then again, there's not much more, if anything, that these rifles can do that a basic AR-15, a AUG, one of the other modernized AR-18 clones, or even an oldster like the FN FNC can't do.

That being said, the HK433 is supposed to be significantly less expensive than the HK416, which the German Army turned down as general issue on account of price.
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Old October 27, 2018, 21:38   #8
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A dozen different types of rifle could have been used to that effect. What's yer point?

The charging handle location is anachronistic and puzzling on the 433.
Considering he went on over 300 missions before killing Osama it makes his choice worth a hard look. What true professional use tend to speak volumes about the tools. You can hit a golf ball with any club but it won't make you a winner.
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Old October 28, 2018, 09:20   #9
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Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
Considering he went on over 300 missions before killing Osama it makes his choice worth a hard look.
Why? Curious, really. what exactly is your point because I can think of a couple different ways to look at it.
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Old October 28, 2018, 11:41   #10
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Why? Curious, really. what exactly is your point because I can think of a couple different ways to look at it.
When you have experience you tend to choose the best tools for a job. Seals do everything in all kinds of weather and conditions and train with any weapons they want. That he chose the 416 after years of battle and training tells me he chose it because it's what he felt was best.

To get a better opinion read his book and look at all he went through before that night. Hundreds of missions and gunfights and he chose the 416, it was a good professional choice.
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Old October 29, 2018, 12:01   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawana jim View Post
When you have experience you tend to choose the best tools for a job. Seals do everything in all kinds of weather and conditions and train with any weapons they want. That he chose the 416 after years of battle and training tells me he chose it because it's what he felt was best.

To get a better opinion read his book and look at all he went through before that night. Hundreds of missions and gunfights and he chose the 416, it was a good professional choice.
Not knocking the HK, but an M4 likely would have served him fine. Without knowing his exact reasons, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
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Old October 29, 2018, 12:17   #12
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Not knocking the HK, but an M4 likely would have served him fine. Without knowing his exact reasons, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
According to his book he used the 416 on other missions with good sucess. Great book that tells you his life as a Seal. Won the Silver star twice so odds are he knows his weapons.
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Old November 09, 2018, 09:33   #13
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In answer to the OP's question, yes it is very modern, beautiful rifle. However as a mere mortal, I rate any service rifle as to how well I can get SPARE PARTS and in the case of some proprietary guns; magazines. Parts and magazines break, wear out and tend to get lost. True, an HK 416 is an excellent Stoner variant but for the rest of us without an unlimited budget supported by tens of millions of taxpayers, our humble AR's built on kits will and can make do.

I dare say the Navy Seals could have just as easily killed Bin Laden with a standard AK they pick up (captured) in the desert. It would have been more ironic and just desserts if he had.



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Old November 09, 2018, 13:03   #14
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I dare say the Navy Seals could have just as easily killed Bin Laden with a standard AK they pick up (captured) in the desert.
And that there is the point. Humans, not hardware.

I'm still curious whose bright idea it was to put the charging handle on the 433 in that position. You can't say that's for continuity, as the G3's role as a front-line rifle in Bundeswehr service is long past, and the G36's handle is located above the receiver. Perhaps the market is a nation lik Portugal that still issues the G3.
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Old November 09, 2018, 13:50   #15
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Possibly because of how the designed the receiver with the rail? I don't 100% get it, either, to be honest.
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Old November 13, 2018, 17:12   #16
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Possible reasons for the charging handle design:
1) Reciprocating vs. Non-reciprocating (i.e. SCAR vs. ACR)
2) Interference with optic (do you bang your knuckles against your Eotech when charging? Noted issue on Magpul Masada prototype)
3) Maintain cheek-weld (compared to the AR-15 in operation)
4) Ambidextrous (FAL can do the first three, but not ambi)


Keep in mind that the final form should be based on the combination of functions, not each one individually. Placing the charging handle up front does all four and the 433 as well as the ACR converged on that design.

Last edited by HibikiR; November 13, 2018 at 18:29.
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Old November 13, 2018, 18:40   #17
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Who trains to reload with their cheek remaining on the stock? I don't even do that with precision rifles. Pretty difficult to glance at the chamber like that, too.
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Old November 13, 2018, 20:18   #18
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Who trains to reload with their cheek remaining on the stock? I don't even do that with precision rifles. Pretty difficult to glance at the chamber like that, too.
Could be a tacticool fad or a legitimate concern. Or more likely, I misread why some designers want to ditch the AR charging handle due to its position.

Since I'm in a commie state, anybody in a free state have insight on suppressor use and gas in the face with different rifle designs?

Edit: Actually, looking at the cheek riser in its highest postion, it would block an AR-15 charging handle. Maybe the stock design moved the charging handle forward?

Last edited by HibikiR; November 13, 2018 at 20:28.
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Old November 14, 2018, 12:47   #19
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I can see moving it forward from the ass end of the receiver, but most rifles out there have the handle somewhere along the bolt carrier nearer the breach and there doesn't seem to be much issue with those. I'll stop puzzling about the decisions of large corporate entities; I should know better.
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Old November 20, 2018, 15:45   #20
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As with everything HK, it's not going to happen.

HK. BECAUSE YOU SUCK. AND WE HATE YOU.
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Old November 21, 2018, 14:54   #21
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Basically, it seems mechanically to be a G36 with an aluminum receiver, a new charging handle and HK416 type barrels.

I guess it can be seen as a "value" alternative to the HK416 and cures the G36's heat induced wandering zero problems.

Just like how the 416 can be seen as the rifle the original AR15 should've been, it can be argued that the 433 is the rifle that the G36 could've been.

Of course, the genesis of this rifle actually is similar to the G36. The German Army wanted newer, more modern rifles. The initially suggested replacement (G41 for the G36 era and HK416 for the HK433 era) is ruled out as being too expensive for general issue, HK and Steyr Mannlicher face off (G36 vs the AUG, 433 vs the Steyr/Rhienmettal 556, but this time with other competitors including Haenel AR15) and it seems now that HK has the lead, though the decision on the 433 or whatever else becoming the next German rifle won't be made until next year it seems.
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