The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The AR Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 10, 2019, 08:53   #1
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
short gas with a2 stock?

I'm in the midst of a build,useing a 16"barrel with a short gas system and a a2 butt stock.
Do I have to use a carbine buffer and spring and put some sort of spacer in the a2 tube to take up the space,or can I use a a2 buffer and spring?.
A friend of mine gave me a dd mk12 rail system a while back,so I decided to do a build around it. Ya thanks buddy!
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 10:13   #2
lew
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
lew's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 16727
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,314
Rifle buffer tube= rifle buffer. Carbine tube= carbine buffer.
__________________
Statism: Ideas so great, they're mandatory.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens
lew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 10:40   #3
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
thanks. Four ar,s,thats enough in that direction.
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 10:49   #4
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 14,141
You will probably need a spacer.
__________________
Giving people the benefit of the means its ok to screw you over.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 11:40   #5
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
There are several ways of doing this.

1: rifle buffer - rifle spring

2: H3 carbine buffer - rifle spring - spacer that fits inside spring(I've done this to enable use of carbine length buffers in A5 tube)

3: standard carbine buffer - carbine spring - spacer that is same outer diameter as spring
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 13:13   #6
Stoney
Former 0311
Contributor
Bronze Contributor
 
Stoney's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1205
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brush Prairie, WA USA
Posts: 5,644
try it before changing any thing, you can always change it later
__________________
Stoney
You can take a man out of the Corps, but you cant take the Corps out of the man.
The Gunny RIP

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.

"Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

Has freedom been replaced with Free-Dumb.

Illegitimi non carborundum

A 1911A1 is like a Glock, except it's for grownups.

AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen." Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

Old Viking saying: Never be more then two steps from your weapon

Flying is a hard way to earn an easy living.
Stoney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 16:49   #7
nvcdl
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 1312
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,525
I'd go with an A1 stock on a carbine.
nvcdl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 17:00   #8
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvcdl View Post
I'd go with an A1 stock on a carbine.
I understand your reasoning behind that stock choice, but don't understand what that has to do with the original question.
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 17:23   #9
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 14,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
There are several ways of doing this.

1: rifle buffer - rifle spring

2: H3 carbine buffer - rifle spring - spacer that fits inside spring(I've done this to enable use of carbine length buffers in A5 tube)

3: standard carbine buffer - carbine spring - spacer that is same outer diameter as spring
Yep, now I remember why I used a spacer. I didn't want to buy a new buffer for the stock. Stock was a conversion kit and came with the spacer.
__________________
Giving people the benefit of the means its ok to screw you over.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10, 2019, 21:20   #10
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
I already have a a2 butt and spacer,and I like the full length butt feel[that doesnt sound right] and getting a pistol buffer and spring with a pistol kit[useing the sb3 on a draco]that will leave me only a couple parts shy of doing a 16"short gas with a a2 butt and dd mk 12 rail.Only few parts missing[receiver,charging handle,a2 tube].I think I'll try the spacer behind the short buffer and spring before getting a a2 spring and buffer[if I have parts left over then I'll have to build another]
thanks for the information and suggestions fellas.
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 01:06   #11
lockjaw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,089
That spacer is necessary for using the a2 stock with the rifle length receiver extension ("buffer tune").

That same receiver extension will work with an A1 stock, without the spacer.

The rifle length receiver extension was designed along with the A1 length stock. The A2 stock is longer, and requires the spacer (along with longer screw).
__________________
Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated. ― Lou Holtz
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 07:47   #12
Timber Wolf
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 805
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern U.S.
Posts: 4,826
Don't confuse the spacer that goes BEHIND the buffer tube with one that is inside the tube because you want to run carbine stuff in rifle length tube. Lot's of over thinking in this thread.
__________________
First rule of gun fighting: "have a gun!"

"Guns don't kill people. Daddys with good looking daughters do!"
Timber Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 08:32   #13
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
I did a a1 build a little while ago and have left over bits and pieces.I didnt do my homework and ended up with more crap than I needed.I understand I need the short spacer for the a2 ,but to use the carbine buffer in an a2 butt,I would need to take up the extra space[bring the a2 tube to carbine length on the inside].I'm just trying to be a cheapo and use up left overs with out having to get a bunch more parts and end up with another damn gun.
I dont think the carbine buffer and spring will know that its in a a2 tube with a piece of broom handle behind it[so to speak]. I hope,I wish,I dream,I ponder.
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 10:14   #14
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
This pic shows what you'll need to use the carbine buffer and spring in a rifle tube. The spacer can be made of anything that is 1" in diameter, and is 2-5/8" long. If you use some kind of tubing, pvc, etc., just make sure the spring won't go inside. Use a 1" flat washer between the tubing and the spring.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_0001 (2).JPG (129.2 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by M90A1; February 11, 2019 at 10:20.
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 11:36   #15
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
Yea!thats the ticket!thanks.
I know this should be elsware,but-I have an inch charging handle[missing roll pin],bho with spring and plunger and mag release[with spring and screw] all are inch I beleive as trading fodder if anyone is interested.I need an a2 tube[and buffer and spring if needed],charging handle,rear sight for a flat top receiver. any one want to play?
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 18:13   #16
lockjaw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,089
A carbine gas system will work fine with a standard rifle buffer, especially a 16" barrel. Colt has built many factory rifles in this configuration. The configuration is actually quite pleasant to shoot compared to a carbine buffer.

What am I missing here? Adapting a carbine buffer in a rifle extension for 5his application seems redundant?
__________________
Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated. ― Lou Holtz
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2019, 19:57   #17
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
What am I missing here? Adapting a carbine buffer in a rifle extension for 5his application seems redundant?
He already had a carbine buffer and spring and just wanted to know if they could be used with a rifle buffer tube.
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 05:54   #18
MistWolf
Registered
 
MistWolf's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7435
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,812
Adapting a carbine buffer & spring to fit in a rifle RE to save money is false economy. Take full advantage of the rifle RE by using a rifle buffer and Sprinco green spring to get a smoother recoil impulse and greater span of operation. A rifle buffer doesn't cost much.
__________________
I should have followed my childhood dream of becoming a Mad Storyteller
MistWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 12:39   #19
lockjaw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
He already had a carbine buffer and spring and just wanted to know if they could be used with a rifle buffer tube.
This thread is this long on the subject.

Blunt answer. By design, NO. A suprlus rifle buffer and spring will cost a trivial sum of $$$, and the OP will have a icer shooting weapon system (and likely more reliable) than rigging a spacer into the rifle extension to accomodate a carbine buffer and spring.
__________________
Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated. ― Lou Holtz
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 13:56   #20
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
This thread is this long on the subject.

Blunt answer. By design, NO. A surplus rifle buffer and spring will cost a trivial sum of $$$, and the OP will have a nicer shooting weapon system (and likely more reliable) than rigging a spacer into the rifle extension to accomodate a carbine buffer and spring.
Blunt answer, B.S. His rifle will shoot no worse than one with a carbine buffer tube, buffer, and spring. Those seem to do pretty well. The addition of the spacer in a rifle tube changes nothing other than the internal depth of the tube until it's the same as a carbine buffer tube, which will have no effect on reliability. If you're worried about having an AR that shoots nicer than a carbine, maybe you ought to try one in .22LR.

I don't think it's necessarily about the expense of new parts. He just wanted to know if he could use the ones he already had, which he can.
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 15:06   #21
lockjaw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
Blunt answer, B.S. His rifle will shoot no worse than one with a carbine buffer tube, buffer, and spring. Those seem to do pretty well. The addition of the spacer in a rifle tube changes nothing other than the internal depth of the tube until it's the same as a carbine buffer tube, which will have no effect on reliability. If you're worried about having an AR that shoots nicer than a carbine, maybe you ought to try one in .22LR.

I don't think it's necessarily about the expense of new parts. He just wanted to know if he could use the ones he already had, which he can.
Roger that "Bubba." Obviously, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

The guy wants to use a rifle length stock with his carbine upper, with carbine gas system. His lower already has a rifle length extension installed.

Only a "Bubba" hack would encourage the guy to rig the rifle extension in favor of a carbine buffer, rather than installing the proper rifle buffer.

By pleasant shooting, it translates into less recoil, as well as less abusive to the action. It is no secret thst most 16" barrels with carbine gas systems are inherently overgassed. The heavier buffer is used to mitigate this.... the rifle buffer for this application is optimal.

Yep, I prefer.to optimize my builds for minimal recoil and maximum effiency. I dial in the optimal buffer weight for each of my AR builds (it isn't difficult, I have a half dozen "test" buffers of assorted weights, and go up weight until the rifle fails to lock to the rear, and then settle on the buffer weight just below)... and then build a new buffer for that specific rifle. Minimal recoil translates into quicker and more accurate shots on target. Not rocket science.

On the note.of a .22LR dedicated carbine, I recently shot one suppressed on a registered A1 lower. THAT...WAS.... BAD... ASS!!!
__________________
Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated. ― Lou Holtz
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 15:38   #22
Timber Wolf
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 805
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern U.S.
Posts: 4,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrad62 View Post
bunch more parts and end up with another damn gun.
??????????I don't understand the problem??????????? I've bought guns just because I had a magazine that fit, no lie.
__________________
First rule of gun fighting: "have a gun!"

"Guns don't kill people. Daddys with good looking daughters do!"
Timber Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 16:32   #23
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
what kind of points can I use in a 1968 type 1 cb 350 if I cant find an OEM set?
take that[raspberries]
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 17:35   #24
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
Roger that "Bubba." Obviously, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

The guy wants to use a rifle length stock with his carbine upper, with carbine gas system. His lower already has a rifle length extension installed.

Only a "Bubba" hack would encourage the guy to rig the rifle extension in favor of a carbine buffer, rather than installing the proper rifle buffer.

By pleasant shooting, it translates into less recoil, as well as less abusive to the action. It is no secret thst most 16" barrels with carbine gas systems are inherently overgassed. The heavier buffer is used to mitigate this.... the rifle buffer for this application is optimal.

Yep, I prefer.to optimize my builds for minimal recoil and maximum effiency. I dial in the optimal buffer weight for each of my AR builds (it isn't difficult, I have a half dozen "test" buffers of assorted weights, and go up weight until the rifle fails to lock to the rear, and then settle on the buffer weight just below)... and then build a new buffer for that specific rifle. Minimal recoil translates into quicker and more accurate shots on target. Not rocket science.

On the note.of a .22LR dedicated carbine, I recently shot one suppressed on a registered A1 lower. THAT...WAS.... BAD... ASS!!!
Well, I guess I been schooled by one o' them innernet eggspurts!!
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 17:44   #25
M90A1
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 3409
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Way out in the AZ desert!
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrad62 View Post
what kind of points can I use in a 1968 type 1 cb 350 if I cant find an OEM set?
take that[raspberries]
Now, you pay attention to that "lockjaw" feller. He gots all the answers.

Bubba
M90A1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 17:54   #26
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 14,141
I'd go for a reliable option. The one that shoots reliably with less KATHONNGGG. I like kathonk.
__________________
Giving people the benefit of the means its ok to screw you over.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 21:32   #27
lockjaw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
Well, I guess I been schooled by one o' them innernet eggspurts!!
Your comment reminds me that typical asshole who gets his butt hurt when someone reminds him to put his AR on safe before everyone heads down range to check targets.

I'm not an "eggspurt," but I am confident that I have a hell of a lot more tangible training and experience than most home builders (and some high volume builders for that matter). I have been trained to both troubleshoot and rebuild a service rifle like a monkey, and also to build a rifle from scratch to meet specific parameters ... which doesn't always translate to what is consider "cool" with armchair commandos.

Please don't confuse a Bubba builder with a home bench builder. Building an AR that functions is not a complicated task. What separates a respectable bench builder from Bubba is the capacity to be patient, to be open to education and constructive criticism, proper tools, and a little bit of maturity +.thick skin doesn't hurt.
__________________
Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated. ― Lou Holtz
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2019, 22:16   #28
madrad62
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 78107
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CLEVELAND,OHIO
Posts: 104
jeez guys ,take it easy.I was just asking a question.I'm certainly not an ar guy,I just recently found out how easy and inexspensive they can be.Got a sporter 2 like in the early 90,s,just because my buddy needed crhistmas money for his kids.Let it sit until about a year ago,then found another 29k later in production just 6 months ago,then found an a colt a1 upper with cmp c 1/12 barrel for $200 and figured what the hell why not.Now instead of hunting garand and carbine parts,I doing this shite[them aluminium guns are addictive as garands and 1911a1,s].I swear this is my last build!
Thanks for all the insight,education and advise,it will be well heeded.
madrad62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 20:24   #29
nvcdl
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 1312
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
I understand your reasoning behind that stock choice, but don't understand what that has to do with the original question.
You won't need a spacer and it will be handier. If you go with an A2 you will need the spacer.
nvcdl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17, 2019, 23:29   #30
fly2.0
Senior Member
Gold Contributor
 
fly2.0's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 79608
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Under fire in Kentucky
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrad62 View Post
what kind of points can I use in a 1968 type 1 cb 350 if I cant find an OEM set?
take that[raspberries]
Just get you a HEI Distributor and through the points and the old distributor away .. lol.....
__________________
* * * * *
*
********************************************
** Colt / FN All the way **
********************************************
fly2.0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files