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Old July 23, 2019, 18:43   #151
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I assure you a fully automatic weapon or a bump stock will create more casualties in less time before the perp is taken out.
............
A rank amateur , maybe, will waste the rounds.


A seasoned shooter, not even close to professional rank would be much more deliberate.

Of course , you know that, but it does not fit your emotionally invested premise.


...............................................
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Old July 23, 2019, 19:03   #152
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A rank amateur , maybe, will waste the rounds.

A seasoned shooter, not even close to professional rank would be much more deliberate.

Of course , you know that, but it does not fit your emotionally invested premise.

...............................................
I do not believe your assessment is equal to automatic firing.
I also do not believe Stephen Paddock was a professional nor a seasoned shooter yet he murdered 58 people and wounded another 422 after firing 1,100 rounds with bumpstock fitted AR15's.
The firing into a crowd that size was a walkover.
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Old July 23, 2019, 19:35   #153
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I assure you a fully automatic weapon or a bump stock will create more casualties in less time before the perp is taken out.
Here is a question for you: Since 1934 how many NFA owners have been charged with homicide using their registered weapons?
IDIOT

How many times have actual machine guns been used EVER in criminal events jackass ?

How about suppressors

shit, how about stocked or smooth bored pistols simpleton

at my peak I can run well over 300 rpm semi auto
started piano at 4 years of age, continued through university where I taught
so yes my fingers are highly trained to rapid movement
can't do 600 but pretty close dummy

That's aimed fire asshat, not giggle switch indexing
yes I can easily out pace a STEN on semi auto
so let's see, I'm the outlier here...I suppose all semis should be prohibited now too right cocksucker ?

Ed McGivern could dump revolvers at full auto speed to
Dak all horrified feels we now need to ban DA revolvers too
for the children you know

you belong on some Democratic Progressive site Dak

oh and Paddock ?
ATFE has yet to examine any of those guns
they have been plain over that stating they don't know whether they were illegally milled and drilled or not
Sessions DOJ refused to allow ATFE to examine them you fucktard
in short we don't know what the nutter used
it's all been concealed, blamed on stupid bump stocks

guy was a millionaire
With cash I can obtain anything
select fire ARs are dead stupid easy
just a fookin' hole moron
full shelf AR lowers are widely available dummy
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Old July 23, 2019, 19:58   #154
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The Las Vegas shooter allegedly had 23 firearms, thousands of rounds of ammunition and was basically shooting fish in a barrel. He fired for between nine and eleven minutes. Other than keeping the shooter's finger from getting tired, I doubt that the bump stocks were that much of a factor in the outcome. It ain't the bump stocks that that they want anyway.
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Old July 23, 2019, 21:43   #155
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I Since 1934 how many NFA owners have been charged with homicide using their registered weapons?
Three, I think - all cops.

And the whole Las Vegas bump stock thing is a little iffy. Not entirely satisfied with the Official Narrative (TM). As I have served in special operations (Rangers), and been exposed to a variety of weapons fired on full auto, both from operator end and from downrange. And I own a bunch of machineguns and make my living working on guns. And the audio did not match my experience. I'll accept that echos from buildings alter the acoustics, but what I heard was not (solely) an AR-15 with a bump stock.

Called 911 once over suburban nighttime gunfire and suggested it was a .357 revolver. 911 operator wanted to know how I knew. Pitch, tempo, intensity, duration, timbre - I can't explain it to someone who doesn't understand the terms.
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Old July 23, 2019, 22:17   #156
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I assure you a fully automatic weapon or a bump stock will create more casualties in less time before the perp is taken out.
Here is a question for you: Since 1934 how many NFA owners have been charged with homicide using their registered weapons?
I’ve used select fire and belt fed full automatics in the military. We rarely flipped the switch to burst on an M16. I could have been issued the midlength AR I own now and been equally effective.

Even if a select fire rifle was marginally more effective, it’s not like there’s a threshold for a mass attack that’s acceptable. Three deaths is too many, as is ten or twenty. There’s no amount of senseless deaths I think is OK, and there’s no amount the anti-gun side won’t crucify us for. And it doesn’t matter to them that we were all thousands of miles away from whatever dickhead decided to go hurt a bunch of innocent people. To them, you and I and our AR’s and our 870’s are to blame. Were it not for our insistence on having guns available in society, mass murderers would all carry feather dusters instead.

Pretty sure it was two NFA murders last I checked. I haven’t looked for awhile.
But what does it matter?

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Old July 24, 2019, 00:38   #157
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....you are mostly wrong there mate. A new 92FS is $1109, a Brigadier is $1400. Yes there is a 10 round limit but you are most certainly able to store it at home as long as you have an approved safe. And yes that is Vic law I am quoting
How much are the registration fees? I got my source from a Victoria Police Officer pal of mine just a few years ago. Was there another state that required your firearms to be locked up at the range, maybe Tazzie?

I had a squiz at the Victoria firearms regulations and they must have changed recently because I was pursuing either a single shot or L1A1 but the L1A1 about 4 years ago and that was out of the question.
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Old July 24, 2019, 02:58   #158
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How much are the registration fees? I got my source from a Victoria Police Officer pal of mine just a few years ago. Was there another state that required your firearms to be locked up at the range, maybe Tazzie?

I had a squiz at the Victoria firearms regulations and they must have changed recently because I was pursuing either a single shot or L1A1 but the L1A1 about 4 years ago and that was out of the question.
..........Licence is around $200 for 5yrs and $30 transfer/permit to acquire. I am not aware of any state that REQUIRES storage at a range, it is an OPTION in each state if you wish to do so. I deal professionally with each jurisdiction so I am guessing your pal is mistaken, never trust a GD Copper for licencing advice.

The only single shot L1A1s here were the target version and they are a Class B firearm (same as any bolt/lever/pump rifle) and not too tough to licence. The rifles are however uncommon. A real L1A1 is also possible but that is a Class D licence and a pain in the arse (you need a professional need for one or be a dealer).
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Old July 24, 2019, 05:35   #159
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I’ve used select fire and belt fed full automatics in the military. We rarely flipped the switch to burst on an M16. I could have been issued the midlength AR I own now and been equally effective.

Even if a select fire rifle was marginally more effective, it’s not like there’s a threshold for a mass attack that’s acceptable. Three deaths is too many, as is ten or twenty. There’s no amount of senseless deaths I think is OK, and there’s no amount the anti-gun side won’t crucify us for. And it doesn’t matter to them that we were all thousands of miles away from whatever dickhead decided to go hurt a bunch of innocent people. To them, you and I and our AR’s and our 870’s are to blame. Were it not for our insistence on having guns available in society, mass murderers would all carry feather dusters instead.

Pretty sure it was two NFA murders last I checked. I haven’t looked for awhile.
But what does it matter?
It certainly does matter as statistically NFA ownership and fatalities do not even move the needle in the last 85 or so years. Actually there were 2 murders and 1 suicide with a NRA weapons recorded. The first murder as I recall was in Puerto Rico with an Uzi.
Nothwithstanding, the liberal media continues to run film of automatic weapons being fired at the range during every semi-auto firearm incident. It seems fake news is determine to educate the public where fully automatic and semi-automatic are one in the same.

Thank you for your insight on your personal firearms.
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Old July 24, 2019, 05:42   #160
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No Thanks to the above Fake News Delusion. Enjoy your own Liberty, and perish the thought of infringing on another's.

Allright DakTo/DABTL, your first exercise of the day is sit-ups...

READY!.....EXERCISE!
Thank you for joining me. The first exercise this fine morning is the 8 count push-up. Do you remember the starting position? If not give me 10.
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Old July 24, 2019, 07:04   #161
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"From my cold dead hands" has a different meaning in NZ I guess.
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Old July 24, 2019, 08:14   #162
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None. Waco and Ruby Ridge proved to me that Americans no longer possess the determination to live free and the be the masters of their government. Nothing that has happened since has caused me to reconsider my conclusion.

It would seem that New Zealanders are similarity afflicted. I pass no judgement upon anyone facing that decision. Every man must assess for himself what action he will take and he alone will absorb the consequences.
I disagree. There are thousands for sure. Unfortunately they have been successfully isolated. I was a kid in 1994 but i can still tell things are different today. There were people that talked big back then but they were basically just crazy coots. I've seen waco tapes played in church service. The .gov has shown its hand too many times. I think there are more people that know the game now than before.
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Old July 24, 2019, 09:51   #163
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y

Doesn't work to be a lone gunman.
Unless you're looking for more restrictions or confiscation, bonus points if it's a group other than White Christians (See "New Zealand Mass Shooting). I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but when I see the acts of a single individual get liberties taken from an entire country it makes one wonder...
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Old July 24, 2019, 10:16   #164
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I do not believe your assessment is equal to automatic firing.
I also do not believe Stephen Paddock was a professional nor a seasoned shooter yet he murdered 58 people and wounded another 422 after firing 1,100 rounds with bumpstock fitted AR15's.
The firing into a crowd that size was a walkover.
Paddock was able to do what he did because of his elevated position. The casualty count would have been considerably different had he been at ground level and not shooting from a high point into a crowd caged by fences, which brings up another point...

How the hell do you have that many people between high points with no overwatch by the police? The very first thing I asked when I saw the news was "WHY IS NO ONE SHOOTING BACK???" Basic military maneuvers teaches you to control the high ground to control everything around it. Were I to have a loved one there I'd be suing the LVPD as well as those holding the concert for lack of security. LVPD should have had eyes and guns on top of every building around where the venue was set up. As soon as the windows broke (which set off alarms) and shooting started there should have been fire coming back from rooftops, and the body count should have been in the single digits, including the perp. How short-sighted and stupid can a city and police force be?
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Old July 24, 2019, 10:31   #165
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Let's see how this plays out on how many firearms are turned in and how many have will be MIA?

"New Zealand does not track the vast majority of its gun sales, so the total amount of weapons in the country is unknown. According to estimates, the country likely has somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 million guns across its 4.6 million residents — or roughly one weapon for every three residents."
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Old July 24, 2019, 11:03   #166
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It certainly does matter as statistically NFA ownership and fatalities do not even move the needle in the last 85 or so years. Actually there were 2 murders and 1 suicide with a NRA weapons recorded. The first murder as I recall was in Puerto Rico with an Uzi.
Nothwithstanding, the liberal media continues to run film of automatic weapons being fired at the range during every semi-auto firearm incident. It seems fake news is determine to educate the public where fully automatic and semi-automatic are one in the same.

Thank you for your insight on your personal firearms.
The NFA creates an artificial scarcity of MG’s, and it does put those who own them through extra scrutiny. There are comparatively few legal MG’s in the country, so it’s almost impossible for them to be statistically significant in crimes. But as much as I think the media are a bunch of tools, I haven’t seen footage of FA fire since the North Hollywood Shootout. When they run stories, it’s usually just on AR-15’s.

But the NFA isn’t only machine guns. Are short barreled rifles that are legal in Canada or suppressors that are seen as hearing protection in other countries really so dangerous? Why is there a $200 tax on them, and why do we have to screw around for months in an antiquated system to get permission to own one? There can’t be any improvement on that at all?

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Old July 24, 2019, 17:29   #167
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The NFA creates an artificial scarcity of MG’s, and it does put those who own them through extra scrutiny. There are comparatively few legal MG’s in the country, so it’s almost impossible for them to be statistically significant in crimes. But as much as I think the media are a bunch of tools, I haven’t seen footage of FA fire since the North Hollywood Shootout. When they run stories, it’s usually just on AR-15’s.

But the NFA isn’t only machine guns. Are short barreled rifles that are legal in Canada or suppressors that are seen as hearing protection in other countries really so dangerous? Why is there a $200 tax on them, and why do we have to screw around for months in an antiquated system to get permission to own one? There can’t be any improvement on that at all?
There are 630,019 registered machine guns in the US in 2017 The BATF claims the number of owners nationwide are not known. I would believe that number dwarfs the number of non-registered machineguns in our country.
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Old July 24, 2019, 17:57   #168
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Unless you're looking for more restrictions or confiscation, bonus points if it's a group other than White Christians (See "New Zealand Mass Shooting). I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but when I see the acts of a single individual get liberties taken from an entire country it makes one wonder...
It makes me wonder too, and I sometimes tend to think that some of those shooters were manipulated by our politicians so THEY can further their gun control agenda.

It goes kinda like this: “Now, Mr. John Smith, next coming Saturday at 8pm you go grab your AR15 and shoot up place X. There should be plenty of people around......then for doing that, we will give you $100,000 and a free attorney.”

“Afterwards we have you spend 2 years in a pen, then you’ll get a new ID and be released. That will help us considerably in the interest of public safety shoving some new gun control laws down the people’s throats.”
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Old July 24, 2019, 18:02   #169
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Paddock was able to do what he did because of his elevated position. The casualty count would have been considerably different had he been at ground level and not shooting from a high point into a crowd caged by fences, which brings up another point...

How the hell do you have that many people between high points with no overwatch by the police? The very first thing I asked when I saw the news was "WHY IS NO ONE SHOOTING BACK???" Basic military maneuvers teaches you to control the high ground to control everything around it. Were I to have a loved one there I'd be suing the LVPD as well as those holding the concert for lack of security. LVPD should have had eyes and guns on top of every building around where the venue was set up. As soon as the windows broke (which set off alarms) and shooting started there should have been fire coming back from rooftops, and the body count should have been in the single digits, including the perp. How short-sighted and stupid can a city and police force be?
LVPD was manipulated. They were told what to do and when to do it and not to step onto anybody’s toes.

It was all done that way to effect a certain outcome.
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Old July 24, 2019, 18:19   #170
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There are 630,019 registered machine guns in the US in 2017 The BATF claims the number of owners nationwide are not known. I would believe that number dwarfs the number of non-registered machineguns in out country.
You do realize your quoted number includes MGs registered to Law Enforcement agencies right

as far as your other contention, it's been generally accepted that the number of transferable MGs is roughly 180,000 of which there is a degree of yearly attrition due to fire, natural disaster or outright sizure
understand further that a fair number of the transferable examples are held in Police and Agency armories or Museum collections
probably over half are in that status

The number of post simple MGs increases yearly however the transferable numbers steadily drop

To assist your understanding here's a 2015 report from ATFE:

https://www.atf.gov/file/89561/download

scroll down and look at the numbers of registered MGs in New York State
over 12 Thousand yet MGs can not be possessed by the public
close to 30 thousand in California, same deal there
these are all guns possessed by agencies

as to the raw numbers of unregistered MGs ?
unknown
but you need to consider DOJ just added over 500 thousand bump fire stocks to that number of which practically none have been turned in
less than half of the SWD Street Sweepers have been accounted for since Clinton made them NFA way back in the 90s
For every MG registered during the 34 or 68 amnesties there were dozens that were not
this don't even take into account unlawful builds and conversions
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Old July 25, 2019, 02:06   #171
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Compliance rates are always telling, use Australia for example. During the 96/97 event there were (using round numbers) 650,000 longarms "bought back". The reality of that is that there were also many firearms in that which were surrendered that had NOT been prohibited by the new laws but which people just decided they could not be fu#ked getting a licence for and registering etc. Now I was in the firearms trade here till 1990 and have more than a few figures, but 650,000 is a quantity numerically less than the amount of a SINGLE type (in this case I am referring to SKS/SKK rifles) of newly prohibited firearms that were imported here by multiple importers......so you then think about all the OTHER types of now restricted firearms that just went to what is referred to here now (by Law Enforcement) as "The Grey Market" in that at one point they were all here legally but became illegal....as opposed to the many many MANY "Blackmarket" (never imported or held here legally) that have been seized (most always in the possession of organised crime figures).

News only a couple of months ago was that the quantity of newly registered firearms (as in registered post 96/97) now exceeded the number "bought back"
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Old July 25, 2019, 05:13   #172
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An interesting theory:

"Now consider New Zealand , there is one known murder committed with a machine gun. That firearm was illegally imported and not legally owned , at the time it was used in semi-auto mode to commit a murder by a gang member. In the US there are hundreds of thousands of legally owned machine guns and per capita NZ would have a higher number and there is ZERO crime with them. What most Americans don’t realize is that events like Las Vegas have impact on other countries like NZ . I hope the real truth is told about what happened in Vegas unlike so many other government manufactured events that the public swallow up over so called “official reports"."
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Old July 25, 2019, 05:23   #173
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I sometimes wonder if our government also feared the WWI vets returning home and not receiving their promised bonus money. Was that a part of the rationale of the 1934 NFA? (Who knows what type of US or captured weapons our Doughboys brought back?)

"Keep this in perspective the machine gun was designed and patented in 1885. Was not regulated in the US nor the rest of the world until 1920’s in the UK which had a FEAR that ex-servicemen would take revenge on the government for what had happened in WW-1. In the US criminal usage by bank robbers of fame and criminal gangs prompted by ultra left liberals to support the government into writing and passing the 1934 NFA , National Firearms Act."
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Old July 25, 2019, 06:30   #174
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Compliance rates are always telling, use Australia for example. During the 96/97 event there were (using round numbers) 650,000 longarms "bought back". The reality of that is that there were also many firearms in that which were surrendered that had NOT been prohibited by the new laws but which people just decided they could not be fu#ked getting a licence for and registering etc. Now I was in the firearms trade here till 1990 and have more than a few figures, but 650,000 is a quantity numerically less than the amount of a SINGLE type (in this case I am referring to SKS/SKK rifles) of newly prohibited firearms that were imported here by multiple importers......so you then think about all the OTHER types of now restricted firearms that just went to what is referred to here now (by Law Enforcement) as "The Grey Market" in that at one point they were all here legally but became illegal....as opposed to the many many MANY "Blackmarket" (never imported or held here legally) that have been seized (most always in the possession of organised crime figures).

News only a couple of months ago was that the quantity of newly registered firearms (as in registered post 96/97) now exceeded the number "bought back"
Compliance is actually rather low

consider the 922r situation here
When Enterprise' Arms 1st brought out their L1 receivers there were nada for US made 922r compliance bits
Seem to recall they didn't come fully available for some months

folks were swapping thumbhole butts out willy nilly
while a Federal violation to do it possession of a gun so modified in violation of 922r wasn't unlawful

Even with 922r based conversions many depended on a magazine or magazine subcomponents to make the US parts count
drop a 75 rd drum up in a thusly built conversion you had just unlawfully manufactured a prohibited weapon

Back after your national debacle one of your Firearms officers I was in email contact with mentioned the situation not just with SKS rifles but even lowly Ruger 10/22s, hundreds of thousands of either model had been imported for years
The government had rough numbers on the quantities, that gentleman regarded the whole project as doomed to failure

Something similar occurred in Canada with their registry
just a fraction of folks complied
it became such a National boondoggle just a number of years ago Parliament scrapped most of it

Been some interesting studies in Europe as well
The continent is highly gunned up after two world wars and the majority of firearms remain unregistered/licensed

Progressives assume if they pass a law people will follow it when that is very rarely the case
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Old July 25, 2019, 06:42   #175
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I sometimes wonder if our government also feared the WWI vets returning home and not receiving their promised bonus money. Was that a part of the rationale of the 1934 NFA? (Who knows what type of US or captured weapons our Doughboys brought back?)

"Keep this in perspective the machine gun was designed and patented in 1885. Was not regulated in the US nor the rest of the world until 1920’s in the UK which had a FEAR that ex-servicemen would take revenge on the government for what had happened in WW-1. In the US criminal usage by bank robbers of fame and criminal gangs prompted by ultra left liberals to support the government into writing and passing the 1934 NFA , National Firearms Act."
post Great War as part of German reparations to America thousands of Maxim MGs were shipped here, enough that the War Department seriously considered adopting those belt feds.


By the early 20s the decision was made to retain the Browning 1917 & 1919 MGs after which the War Department surplused the Maxim guns to the general public.
No real solid numbers on how many were sold over roughly a decade however speculation has it the total was somewhere between the five & ten thousand mark.

Now couple points in that:

First very few ended up ever registered during the two amnesties

But more importantly to the best of my knowledge not one Maxim ever saw criminal use in America
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Old July 25, 2019, 15:11   #176
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Back after your national debacle one of your Firearms officers I was in email contact with mentioned the situation not just with SKS rifles but even lowly Ruger 10/22s, hundreds of thousands of either model had been imported for years
....that is essentially what I was saying.....650,000 firearms (a significant percentage of which were not semi rifles/shotguns or pump shotguns) didn't scratch the surface of the amount of those that had been legally imported.
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Old July 26, 2019, 13:30   #177
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To support or not support the ban of bump fire stocks is totally senseless. I would assume almost everyone on this site has seen both the rubber band bump fire modification using a common rubber band from the office supply store. Also the shoestring full auto photos have been seen by so many the idea can't be erased from society. I leaned to bump fire an AR 15 by age sixteen without a rubber band, aftermarket stock or any device. If most semi autos can be bump fired without any aftermarket device how is banning that device going to accomplish anything?

At rifle ranges have seen people trying to sight in a semi auto or shoot small groups accidentally bump fire their rifles. Some assumed they had a malfunctioning rifle till explained what was happening and they stopped having doubles and triples. I first learned bump firing from the hip hooking thumb of firing hand in a belt loop. Soon figured out could do the same from the shoulder accomplishing much more accurate fire. Uncle Sugar can pass a thousand laws and it won't stop lunatics from mass murder. Given a little time and preplanning believe it would be as easy to kill more people than Las Vegas perp accomplished using a hammer or even a rock. No bump fire device in this video and spend some time looking at others where trained shooters can outrun full auto with aimed semi auto fire.

https://youtu.be/ch4ul9aX-ZU

The shoestring machine gun is simple to impliment with most side handle charging rifles though I see no use for such modification as it creates a horrible trigger control issue and wastes ammo. I contend that a perpetual with a bump fire stock is likely to kill or I just less victims than if used the rifle in its unmodified semi auto configuration as would more likely be aiming to some degree from shot to shot thus landing more lethal hits. Have fired my fair share of full auto firearms and if had a goal of mass killing odds are the selector would be in semi position.

The old saying that people kill people, not guns applies to bump stocks. I bought a fair number at bargains when found them. Many forms people who installed on their rifle then removed after a month as the ergonomics sucked and after a while bump fire mag dumps just became an expensive way to waste ammo. Sold them the month following Las Vegas for quite a markup. Was like selling rim fire ammo during Sandy Hook shortages at $100 per brick.

A joint raid by U.S and Mexican law enforcement discovered a machine shop with CNC mill churning out unserial numbered AR receivers on the Mexican side of the border. Internet will quickly show anyone who wants how to convert a collapsible stock into a bump stock with fasteners we keep bins stocked at work amd any home builders supply or hardware store sells for about three bucks. No law or ban will stop criminals from being criminals. Requiring registration, banning devices that really do nothing more than can be done by a person who just practices trigger control, etc is totally useless.

While I voted for Trump I knew we were going to have some issues as firearms owmers. Less than with Hillary though. Trump is a strong supporter of the police lobby. Unfortunately many cops can't shoot well and are scared of civilians with firearms period much less devices that alter them and other items. The major law enforcement lobbies have been pushing for bans on private citizens owning body armor for decades. When he was running I heard from his own mouth when being interviewed while flanked by dozens of high ranking law emforcement officers from local, state and federal agencies and associations. He stated he supported many of their recommendations including sales of body armor to private citizens, bump fire and a few other common items majority of us use or used legally.

I actually saw this band travel to multiple stops campaigning with him and heard him stating support to ban sales of body armor to civilians many times. I believe he will evemtualy do this through executive order if unable to pass legislation. It's also why I have become a dealer for one general armor company a rifle rated plate company and have amassed several hundred covert kits and military surplus kits. When the British upgraded their armor recently they dumped thousands on new unissued kits with soft armor and rifle plates to U.S. as is banned in England. Now buying Aussie as they are upgrading their TBAS and all the U.S. IOTV but using civilian plates can get without becoming homeless.

I doubt we will see the ever popular 10/22 banned soon. Have been on a 10/22 building spree of late and using 60 grain ammo have a newfound respect for the little guns. Can snap in a BX25 magazine and dump it accurately and very quietly at near bump fire speeds. Where do we stop giving up devices, accessories or types of firearms for the "common good"? It's a slippery slope that will have us limited to single shot turn bolts which can only be used at approved range or approved hunting which will result in a varmint esplosion like never seen along with a crime problem we can't imagine when only criminals have guns and a will to carry them. Disarming the private citizen is a major goal and we must fight it.

When the NRA issued a letter saying bump fire devices served no sporting purpose following Las Vegas shooting before any official reports were released I realized they are selling us down the river. All the NRA exists for is to make sure a bunch of people get fat salaries and will cave on protecting our rights before risk a real head to head battle with Uncle Sugar. They put on a decent show but guarantee their salaries are more important to them than our rights if a real controversy brews and they will throw even semi auto sporting rifles under the bus and more till they only host rim fire matches and maybe skeet with over/under shotguns limited to 20 gauge. In the process will ensure only way to keep your rim fire and skeet gun will be to pay theor membership as part of the legal vetting service to make sure competitions are run safely and legally. I trust none of them, we are two generations from repeal of the Second Amendment in its current form.
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Old July 26, 2019, 13:37   #178
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I trust none of them, we are two generations from repeal of the Second Amendment in its current form.
Sadly, I fear this is the most factual statement I have read today.
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Old July 26, 2019, 14:07   #179
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At the most, we're one generation away from a repeal of the 2nd.

Maybe just an election or 2. Trump's 2nd term could be the final nail in the coffin for gun rights.

Obama was too lazy, ignorant and unconcerned to do any damage to the 2nd. We'll get a hard working, true believer Dhimiwit after Trump
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Old July 26, 2019, 14:56   #180
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Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
To support or not support the ban of bump fire stocks is totally senseless. I would assume almost everyone on this site has seen both the rubber band bump fire modification using a common rubber band from the office supply store. Also the shoestring full auto photos have been seen by so many the idea can't be erased from society. I leaned to bump fire an AR 15 by age sixteen without a rubber band, aftermarket stock or any device. If most semi autos can be bump fired without any aftermarket device how is banning that device going to accomplish anything?

At rifle ranges have seen people trying to sight in a semi auto or shoot small groups accidentally bump fire their rifles. Some assumed they had a malfunctioning rifle till explained what was happening and they stopped having doubles and triples. I first learned bump firing from the hip hooking thumb of firing hand in a belt loop. Soon figured out could do the same from the shoulder accomplishing much more accurate fire. Uncle Sugar can pass a thousand laws and it won't stop lunatics from mass murder. Given a little time and preplanning believe it would be as easy to kill more people than Las Vegas perp accomplished using a hammer or even a rock. No bump fire device in this video and spend some time looking at others where trained shooters can outrun full auto with aimed semi auto fire.

https://youtu.be/ch4ul9aX-ZU

The shoestring machine gun is simple to impliment with most side handle charging rifles though I see no use for such modification as it creates a horrible trigger control issue and wastes ammo. I contend that a perpetual with a bump fire stock is likely to kill or I just less victims than if used the rifle in its unmodified semi auto configuration as would more likely be aiming to some degree from shot to shot thus landing more lethal hits. Have fired my fair share of full auto firearms and if had a goal of mass killing odds are the selector would be in semi position.

The old saying that people kill people, not guns applies to bump stocks. I bought a fair number at bargains when found them. Many forms people who installed on their rifle then removed after a month as the ergonomics sucked and after a while bump fire mag dumps just became an expensive way to waste ammo. Sold them the month following Las Vegas for quite a markup. Was like selling rim fire ammo during Sandy Hook shortages at $100 per brick.

A joint raid by U.S and Mexican law enforcement discovered a machine shop with CNC mill churning out unserial numbered AR receivers on the Mexican side of the border. Internet will quickly show anyone who wants how to convert a collapsible stock into a bump stock with fasteners we keep bins stocked at work amd any home builders supply or hardware store sells for about three bucks. No law or ban will stop criminals from being criminals. Requiring registration, banning devices that really do nothing more than can be done by a person who just practices trigger control, etc is totally useless.

While I voted for Trump I knew we were going to have some issues as firearms owmers. Less than with Hillary though. Trump is a strong supporter of the police lobby. Unfortunately many cops can't shoot well and are scared of civilians with firearms period much less devices that alter them and other items. The major law enforcement lobbies have been pushing for bans on private citizens owning body armor for decades. When he was running I heard from his own mouth when being interviewed while flanked by dozens of high ranking law emforcement officers from local, state and federal agencies and associations. He stated he supported many of their recommendations including sales of body armor to private citizens, bump fire and a few other common items majority of us use or used legally.

I actually saw this band travel to multiple stops campaigning with him and heard him stating support to ban sales of body armor to civilians many times. I believe he will evemtualy do this through executive order if unable to pass legislation. It's also why I have become a dealer for one general armor company a rifle rated plate company and have amassed several hundred covert kits and military surplus kits. When the British upgraded their armor recently they dumped thousands on new unissued kits with soft armor and rifle plates to U.S. as is banned in England. Now buying Aussie as they are upgrading their TBAS and all the U.S. IOTV but using civilian plates can get without becoming homeless.

I doubt we will see the ever popular 10/22 banned soon. Have been on a 10/22 building spree of late and using 60 grain ammo have a newfound respect for the little guns. Can snap in a BX25 magazine and dump it accurately and very quietly at near bump fire speeds. Where do we stop giving up devices, accessories or types of firearms for the "common good"? It's a slippery slope that will have us limited to single shot turn bolts which can only be used at approved range or approved hunting which will result in a varmint esplosion like never seen along with a crime problem we can't imagine when only criminals have guns and a will to carry them. Disarming the private citizen is a major goal and we must fight it.

When the NRA issued a letter saying bump fire devices served no sporting purpose following Las Vegas shooting before any official reports were released I realized they are selling us down the river. All the NRA exists for is to make sure a bunch of people get fat salaries and will cave on protecting our rights before risk a real head to head battle with Uncle Sugar. They put on a decent show but guarantee their salaries are more important to them than our rights if a real controversy brews and they will throw even semi auto sporting rifles under the bus and more till they only host rim fire matches and maybe skeet with over/under shotguns limited to 20 gauge. In the process will ensure only way to keep your rim fire and skeet gun will be to pay theor membership as part of the legal vetting service to make sure competitions are run safely and legally. I trust none of them, we are two generations from repeal of the Second Amendment in its current form.
I guess I don't accept your premise

years ago Minnesota elected probably the most pro RKBA character ever in Ventura. When the Progressive press attempted to attack him over guns he invited them in his home and started pulling out C&R MGs from his safes
even in urban areas he was loved over that

Yeah bitch at me how Jesse is a nutter
may be true but has always been more pro RKBA than most any sell out Republican scumbag

Truth is much of our nation's this way
Black, White, Brown, etc

The NRA only became about firearms rights in the late 60s
I have years very old Rifleman pubs, they supported much of the 34' NFA, after that they wanted the .357 magnum round restricted to only police in the 30s
too powerful for civilians said the NRA president in the American Rifleman

LaPuke'
pure scum for decades going back to Neal Knox
Neal was too hardcore for LaPukers tastes and had to go hard
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Old July 26, 2019, 17:27   #181
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You just gotta love ole hueyville as he just always sits back like the wise old owl and buries us with 9 paragraphs of comments and a movie.

Personally, I believe it is best to participate with shorter post and allow others to share their opinions.
I also think hueyville's very first paragraph just about wrapped up the entire 9 yards.

Paragraph 9 is an ad hominem fallacy of course as he attacks the personal leadership and staff of the NRA along with their position on buttstocks.
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Old July 26, 2019, 17:32   #182
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Originally Posted by CG&L View Post
At the most, we're one generation away from a repeal of the 2nd.

Maybe just an election or 2. Trump's 2nd term could be the final nail in the coffin for gun rights.

Obama was too lazy, ignorant and unconcerned to do any damage to the 2nd. We'll get a hard working, true believer Dhimiwit after Trump
I don't believe you are quite up there with Nostradamus but you do a nice imitation.
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Old July 26, 2019, 17:40   #183
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Sadly, I fear this is the most factual statement I have read today.
Well generally 2 generations are considered to be about sixty years and we won't have much to worry about.
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