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Old April 21, 2018, 12:44   #1
beseventeen
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Vintage 2 Gun Match - Linwood, NC - 10/13/2018

Great news...my Vintage 2 Gun match will be returning this fall!! We had a blast last year, and I truly enjoyed having so many FALfriends there. I expect this year to be even bigger than last time, we got a lot of positive feedback!

More information and rules at:

https://www.vintage2gun.com/

8:30am, October 13th, 2018. Registration will open a month prior.

Location: PHA Range - 10346 S Nc Highway 150, Linwood, NC 27299

This will be a "vintage" 2 gun (rifle and pistol) match. Rifles and pistols will be limited 1945 & older design (must have been fielded by military or police in 45 or previous). So it is okay to bring a new gun (i.e. a Sig 1911 you just bought last year) as long as the design was originally 1945 or older. Centerfire only for both, 9mm & up for pistols.

This is going to be a lot of fun...we have some unique stage design based on WW1 & WW2 events. Aside from being a different type of match it will be a good time to just hang out with other people who like cool guns

Uniforms (of any nationality/conflict) are welcomed and will enter you into a drawing for a special prize.









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Last edited by beseventeen; April 24, 2018 at 20:58.
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Old April 21, 2018, 15:18   #2
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Schweet!
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Old April 21, 2018, 15:34   #3
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I'm in again and thank you
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Old April 22, 2018, 05:17   #4
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S, is the FN49 fair game?
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Old April 22, 2018, 21:02   #5
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S, is the FN49 fair game?
Since the design was prewar (WW2), I'd think it would.
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Old April 22, 2018, 22:27   #6
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Sounds fun!
Couple of questions:
1) Are Shooters who are Disabled penalized if they cannot safely assume or recover from a prescribed shooting position, or if they have a condition which prevents them from being physically able to fire from a weak hand position?
2) Would a Thompson/Auto Ordnance 1927a1 (semi auto) be permitted in the Carbine Class?
3) Are Revolvers allowed?
4) Are TT-33 Pistols (7.62×25mm) allowed?
5) Are Semi Auto Sterling's allowed (Sterling/Patchett SMGs were used late in the war)

I'm not trying to cheat or violate the spirit of the match, just trying to figure out
1) If it would be worthwhile to attend (I have spinal injuries that would make it hard to get up while safely handling a firearm, and am missing muscle tissue and bone from left forearm, as well as having a Titanium plate)
2) Just wondering what firearms to bring. I don't want to bring stuff I can't use.

Thanks

Last edited by sniperdoc; April 22, 2018 at 23:46.
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Old April 23, 2018, 09:22   #7
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Looking forward to it!
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Old April 23, 2018, 12:43   #8
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I'm told by Blondzilla we will be there as our #2 son and his wife are living there as you all know. I sent her the date before looking at the calendar.

When I put this date in my Outlook calendar today, I noted that Stimp's match in GA is two weekends prior, I will be going to Dubai after that, and will only get back in the US less than 24 hours before starting the 10 hour drive to Charlotte on Friday

That is also Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot and Gun Show weekend

Can I get a few extra points or something off the prize table for the longest distance traveled competitor ?
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Old April 23, 2018, 13:42   #9
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SniperDoc. I carried an S&W 1943 Victory USN marked revolver in the first match. So the answer is most likely a yes.
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Old April 24, 2018, 08:57   #10
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You ought to subtitle it the Battle of Athens Invitational and encourage folks to dress period-correct, like the Zootshooters do.

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Old April 24, 2018, 09:02   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Story View Post
encourage folks to dress period-correct
B17 does give extra points for those dressed in period uniform, but I'm unsure of the guidelines regarding Zoot suits
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Old April 24, 2018, 09:08   #12
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B17 does give extra points for those dressed in period uniform, but I'm unsure of the guidelines regarding Zoot suits
Work shirt, beat-up fedora and denim overals be cheap, yo.

Just to be the Devil's Advocate, what about sporterized surplus? Article VII. Section 7.01 (a)(i) probably DQs most.


Last edited by Story; April 24, 2018 at 09:16.
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Old April 24, 2018, 10:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
B17 does give extra points for those dressed in period uniform, but I'm unsure of the guidelines regarding Zoot suits
Hey, pick me one up as well next time you go to South Africa!
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Old April 24, 2018, 10:57   #14
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Hey, pick me one up as well next time you go to South Africa!
I'm in Middelburg Mpumalanga right now. Send me your size and color preference bro
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Old April 24, 2018, 14:58   #15
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Depending on what the girls cook up for Jess' birthday this year...I am a tentative maybe.

All Brit if so...Webley and Enfield.
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Old April 24, 2018, 16:16   #16
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Someone should dress as Indiana Jones!
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Old April 24, 2018, 21:09   #17
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So Korean War outfits are a No Go?

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Old April 24, 2018, 21:12   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
S, is the FN49 fair game?
I just went back and edited my post to make it more clear - we are going for firearms that were actually fielded by military or police in or before 1945. So while the FN49 was designed in that time period it wasn't fielded until after, so that would be a pass. Sorry!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
Sounds fun!
Couple of questions:
1) Are Shooters who are Disabled penalized if they cannot safely assume or recover from a prescribed shooting position, or if they have a condition which prevents them from being physically able to fire from a weak hand position?
2) Would a Thompson/Auto Ordnance 1927a1 (semi auto) be permitted in the Carbine Class?
3) Are Revolvers allowed?
4) Are TT-33 Pistols (7.62×25mm) allowed?
5) Are Semi Auto Sterling's allowed (Sterling/Patchett SMGs were used late in the war)

I'm not trying to cheat or violate the spirit of the match, just trying to figure out
1) If it would be worthwhile to attend (I have spinal injuries that would make it hard to get up while safely handling a firearm, and am missing muscle tissue and bone from left forearm, as well as having a Titanium plate)
2) Just wondering what firearms to bring. I don't want to bring stuff I can't use.

Thanks
1) Depending on what the stage requirements were you would most likely just incur procedurals (penalties for shooting with the wrong hand or wrong position etc, these are typically smaller penalties like 5 or 10 seconds).

2) Yes! And if mine ever freaking transfers to me I will join you with my AO thompson as well.

3) Yes please!

4) Yes

5) Yes that would fit the bill as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
I'm told by Blondzilla we will be there as our #2 son and his wife are living there as you all know. I sent her the date before looking at the calendar.

When I put this date in my Outlook calendar today, I noted that Stimp's match in GA is two weekends prior, I will be going to Dubai after that, and will only get back in the US less than 24 hours before starting the 10 hour drive to Charlotte on Friday

That is also Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot and Gun Show weekend

Can I get a few extra points or something off the prize table for the longest distance traveled competitor ?
Sure!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Story View Post
You ought to subtitle it the Battle of Athens Invitational and encourage folks to dress period-correct, like the Zootshooters do.

Interesting! Embarrassingly I have never heard of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post
Depending on what the girls cook up for Jess' birthday this year...I am a tentative maybe.

All Brit if so...Webley and Enfield.
Yes and please bring them with you!! If Jess is interested at all let me know...my M1 carbine is an absolute babydoll to shoot and it's perfectly sized for a small lady.

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Someone should dress as Indiana Jones!
Yes. You!

Im super excited so many FALfriends are interested. Y'all made me feel so warm and fuzzy when you showed up last year!!
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"All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death."

“What do you fear, lady?"

"A cage, to stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
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Old April 24, 2018, 21:13   #19
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So Korean War outfits are a No Go?

I actually think a lot of people would get a kick out of that. Plus I'd love someone else to shoot in heels with me.
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"All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death."

“What do you fear, lady?"

"A cage, to stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
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Old April 24, 2018, 22:20   #20
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I'm hoping to attend with my son (21 y/o), kinda hard to make firm plans right now.
I have a friend who is also very interested.
Are there hotels nearby? (It's almost 570 miles from here, so it would be drive the day before, stay overnight, shoot, stay overnight, drive back)
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Old April 24, 2018, 22:27   #21
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I actually think a lot of people would get a kick out of that. Plus I'd love someone else to shoot in heels with me.
I know a guy, he’s pretty Nuttz...
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Old April 24, 2018, 22:54   #22
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Maybe in the future, a Shotgun Match (Shotguns were used in WW2,especially in the Pacific Theatre) and a Small Caliber Pistol Match (Colt M1903s&M1908s were issued by US,& Germany issued many .25&.32 Pistols) could be added. Perhaps as optional side matches?
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Old April 25, 2018, 06:27   #23
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I know a guy, he’s pretty Nuttz...
Jimmy would be perfect to play Klinger

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
Maybe in the future, a Shotgun Match (Shotguns were used in WW2,especially in the Pacific Theatre) and a Small Caliber Pistol Match (Colt M1903s&M1908s were issued by US,& Germany issued many .25&.32 Pistols) could be added. Perhaps as optional side matches?
Oh trust me there's soooo many things I would love to do. For the first few years we just have to build up a following/interest though. I know that cool people like us are into this but it's hard to get the general public to put down the AR's for a minute.
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"All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death."

“What do you fear, lady?"

"A cage, to stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
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Old April 25, 2018, 07:44   #24
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I know that cool people like us are into this
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Old April 25, 2018, 08:40   #25
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I'm hoping to attend with my son (21 y/o), kinda hard to make firm plans right now.
I have a friend who is also very interested.
Are there hotels nearby? (It's almost 570 miles from here, so it would be drive the day before, stay overnight, shoot, stay overnight, drive back)
Yep. Search for hotels in either Lexington, NC or Salisbury, NC, both are about 20 minutes from the range, they would be your closest cities.
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"All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death."

“What do you fear, lady?"

"A cage, to stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
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Old April 25, 2018, 09:39   #26
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Jimmy would be perfect to play Klinger
YOU I expect in a dress. Jimmy in a dress somehow would not surprise me

If we get a much larger turn-out wearing dresses however, I would be concerned
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Old April 25, 2018, 11:09   #27
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I just went back and edited my post to make it more clear - we are going for firearms that were actually fielded by military or police in or before 1945. So while the FN49 was designed in that time period it wasn't fielded until after, so that would be a pass. Sorry!!
If I go I will leave the Hakim and the FN49 home; SKS it is then.
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Old April 25, 2018, 11:46   #28
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In the pictures, there is a lovely lady dressed in blue. She is wearing a chest holster,but it is worn incorrectly. Is this because of range/match rules?
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Old April 25, 2018, 11:50   #29
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If I go I will leave the Hakim and the FN49 home; SKS it is then.
I would love to meet you and shoot with you raubvogel, so this is in no way meant as discouragement to you, but where was the SKS used in '45 or before to make that an option? I always thought late '40s in Russia was first....
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Old April 25, 2018, 13:26   #30
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The SKS was rolled out in 1943.
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Old April 25, 2018, 13:39   #31
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The SKS was rolled out in 1943.
Design started in 1943 and completed in 1945 (Hence the name SKS-45). Production did not start until 1949.
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Old April 25, 2018, 14:39   #32
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I just went back and edited my post to make it more clear - we are going for firearms that were actually fielded by military or police in or before 1945. So while the FN49 was designed in that time period it wasn't fielded until after, so that would be a pass. Sorry!!
LOL
Hey match director, can I shoot my XXXXXX?
-what if it isn't in the original caliber?
-has an aftermarket flash suppressor?
-aftermarket sights?
-laser beams attached?
-extra-giant magazines?
-custom ammo?
-can I shoot it upside down and backwards since I broke/amputated my pinky toe?
-is there an extra fee to force you to stop being match director long enough to hear me explain how cool it is?
-12 of us want to share it during the match, can you schedule that?
-I am on drugs, and possibly drunk, can I still shoot?
-belt-feds OK?
-are you ordering extra t-shirts?
-will there be food? Will it be vegan/nut-free/keto?
-can I bring my pet?
-will there be a range I can sight in on?
-can I camp on the range?
-can I use tracers?
-I have a great idea for a stage, do you want to hear all about it?

That's all I got off the top of my head...I may check old emails when I get home.

Jess' Birthday is the 15th...they ain't coming. But if it ends up being a glitter-bomb party I may flee. Either to the cabin or up your way.
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Old April 25, 2018, 14:50   #33
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LOL
Hey match director, can I shoot my........
-belt-feds OK?

I may flee. Either to the cabin or up your way.
Hey B17, my Browning 1919 was certainly pre-'45 and would certainly simplify a few of your stages for me

Hey Stimp, I would love to see you there brother, but I understand about priorities in life. Give the girls a hug from me and old Blondie
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Old April 25, 2018, 14:56   #34
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In the pictures, there is a lovely lady dressed in blue. She is wearing a chest holster,but it is worn incorrectly. Is this because of range/match rules?
Pretty much. Also, I don't like cross body draw. With it worn like it's supposed to it's very close to/breaking the 180 which is a big no-no in action matches. I was just trying to improvise. I could not even find pics of women in dress uniform carrying pistols so I'm not sure it ever was a thing. If you know more about that I would love to know how they did it!

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I would love to meet you and shoot with you raubvogel, so this is in no way meant as discouragement to you, but where was the SKS used in '45 or before to make that an option? I always thought late '40s in Russia was first....
We considered the SKS to be a very borderline gun. Late in '45 prototypes were used by the red army in small amounts. I don't think of SKS when I think of WWII either but I had someone asking if they could bring one, I said if you can show me online where they were fielded before/in 45 you can bring it, and he did, so... lol. We will allow again this year.

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LOL
Hey match director, can I shoot my XXXXXX?
-what if it isn't in the original caliber?
-has an aftermarket flash suppressor?
-aftermarket sights?
-laser beams attached?
-extra-giant magazines?
-custom ammo?
-can I shoot it upside down and backwards since I broke/amputated my pinky toe?
-is there an extra fee to force you to stop being match director long enough to hear me explain how cool it is?
-12 of us want to share it during the match, can you schedule that?
-I am on drugs, and possibly drunk, can I still shoot?
-belt-feds OK?
-are you ordering extra t-shirts?
-will there be food? Will it be vegan/nut-free/keto?
-can I bring my pet?
-will there be a range I can sight in on?
-can I camp on the range?
-can I use tracers?
-I have a great idea for a stage, do you want to hear all about it?

That's all I got off the top of my head...I may check old emails when I get home.

Jess' Birthday is the 15th...they ain't coming. But if it ends up being a glitter-bomb party I may flee. Either to the cabin or up your way.
you crack me up!!
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Old April 25, 2018, 17:58   #35
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Pretty much. Also, I don't like cross body draw. With it worn like it's supposed to it's very close to/breaking the 180 which is a big no-no in action matches. I was just trying to improvise. I could not even find pics of women in dress uniform carrying pistols so I'm not sure it ever was a thing. If you know more about that I would love to know how they did it!



We considered the SKS to be a very borderline gun. Late in '45 prototypes were used by the red army in small amounts. I don't think of SKS when I think of WWII either but I had someone asking if they could bring one, I said if you can show me online where they were fielded before/in 45 you can bring it, and he did, so... lol. We will allow again this year.



you crack me up!!
The only females I ever saw that carries pistols while in dress uniforms were MPs. They carried in a holster on a belt, Strong Side.
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Old April 26, 2018, 09:34   #36
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you crack me up!!
Those are all REAL requests made to me as MD for the FAL match over the years.
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Old April 26, 2018, 10:12   #37
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-extra-giant magazines?
Party pooper. This was the only way to fight the Kaiser in 19-dickity-doo.



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I actually think a lot of people would get a kick out of that. Plus I'd love someone else to shoot in heels with me.
1. Purse counts as bandoleer.

2. Chunky heels, vibram soles and Mary Jane style ankle straps seem to be the way to go, but I suspect that'd be preaching to the choir below.

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I know a guy, he’s pretty Nuttz...
Tangentially, http://news.tacticalgear.com/high-heel-hiking-boots/

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Old April 26, 2018, 10:26   #38
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The only females I ever saw that carries pistols while in dress uniforms were MPs. They carried in a holster on a belt, Strong Side.
True story, although the female MPs weren't until early 1945.

I could see female Officers/NCOs in Intel (courier card types) or Finance slots (payday duty) lugging around .45's from the starting bell, but without the truncheons.

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Old April 26, 2018, 12:22   #39
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Be17 looked very spiffy in her uniform last year.

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Old April 26, 2018, 20:32   #40
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Be17 looked very spiffy in her uniform last year.
Thank you kindly!! The jacket is actually a real WW2 WAVES jacket that I got on eBay. Score!! I did add the stripes and star to the cuffs because I would have been an officer back in the day, duh.





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True story, although the female MPs weren't until early 1945.
Interesting! I tried to find something like this initially but came up empty. I'll probably just repeat what I had last year. In any case, without real belt loops, the draw sucks as the whole holster wants to come up with the pistol. Last year I had to reach around my back with my left arm to hold it down in order to draw smoothly.

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Those are all REAL requests made to me as MD for the FAL match over the years.
That's amazing and I love it.

I'm not sure that I ever mentioned it here, but Garand Collectors Assoc Magazine even ran a spread about this match last edition!! Mike, I have a copy saved for you.

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Old April 27, 2018, 01:04   #41
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Thank you kindly!! The jacket is actually a real WW2 WAVES jacket that I got on eBay. Score!! I did add the stripes and star to the cuffs because I would have been an officer back in the day, duh.





I love dressing up in period clothes...I want to find something awesome to wear for the FAL match in Sept



Interesting! I tried to find something like this initially but came up empty. I'll probably just repeat what I had last year. In any case, without real belt loops, the draw sucks as the whole holster wants to come up with the pistol. Last year I had to reach around my back with my left arm to hold it down in order to draw smoothly.



That's amazing and I love it.

I'm not sure that I ever mentioned it here, but Garand Collectors Assoc Magazine even ran a spread about this match last edition!! Mike, I have a copy saved for you.

Wear a Period Correct Belt, like in the MP pic; that would allow you to use a belt holster. Or go with a Field Uniform; there were some females assigned to duties where the wearing of skirts was deemed "inappropriate".
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Old April 27, 2018, 12:08   #42
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Interesting! I tried to find something like this initially but came up empty. I'll probably just repeat what I had last year. In any case, without real belt loops, the draw sucks as the whole holster wants to come up with the pistol. Last year I had to reach around my back with my left arm to hold it down in order to draw smoothly.
American nurses in Paris, August 1944. Note web pistol belt, shoulder strap on soldier extreme right (with her hair tucked up under her helmet). Partying with soldier on left would probably be an extraordinarily bad idea.

Also




Small and Medium originals are still relatively cheap on ebay.
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Old April 27, 2018, 12:28   #43
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I'm not sure that I ever mentioned it here, but Garand Collectors Assoc Magazine even ran a spread about this match last edition!! Mike, I have a copy saved for you.
That is awesome!! Thank you.
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Old April 27, 2018, 15:56   #44
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B17, some more info on US female authorized uniforms and their theater of operations.

http://www.ddayohio.us/Reenactor%20Rosie.htm
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Old April 28, 2018, 01:19   #45
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B17, some more info on US female authorized uniforms and their theater of operations.

http://www.ddayohio.us/Reenactor%20Rosie.htm
Very informative!
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Old April 28, 2018, 01:28   #46
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B17, if you are looking for something different, try the Pacific Theatre.
Britain in Burma/India.
Americans in Philippines/Australia/New Zealand/"Island Hopping"; both Army and Navy (don't forget that Navy Nurses were assigned to Shore Duty with Marines, so that's another Uniform option!)
Aussies/Kiwis, at home as well as deployed.

You may well know far more than I about WW2 in general, and about female service members specifically; I'm not trying to pretend I'm an expert, but I love the history.
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Old April 28, 2018, 16:11   #47
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Design started in 1943 and completed in 1945 (Hence the name SKS-45). Production did not start until 1949.
I take its use in the Byelorussian campaign in 1944 never happened then.
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Old April 28, 2018, 21:04   #48
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It looks like there were two types out there - the Simonov (M45) and the Kalashnikov (M44). Both used the 7.62x41 round designated the M1943 or M43. From what I can find, neither were issued wholesale to troops, only to specially designated troops for field testing. The M45 was finally approved by the Soviet Army for general issuance after the war around 1949.

http://www.nvkz.kuzbass.net/michael/raznoe/karkal.htm

https://translate.google.com/transla...91&prev=search

Not sure if the Google Translation with come across with the links. Taken from original Russian Texts.
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Old April 29, 2018, 17:51   #49
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I'm hoping to find a European 9mm (a Swedish Lahti would be perfect, but a Luger, Walther p38, or Hi Power{or replica} would also work nicely) {I really want a Hi Power anyway, had to sell mine} to go with my 96 Swedish Mauser.
That combo would be ideal for a role as a Norwegian Jossing.
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Old April 29, 2018, 20:35   #50
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sniperdoc, you gave me an idea. I'll have to take my Hakim out of the safe and see if it is accurate enough for this match. Since it is a direct copy of the AG42 that was fielded by the Swedes in 1942, I think it fits the bill. Egypt had it modified to shoot the German 8mm Mauser rounds (7.92X57), I also have the WWII ammo covered too. My pistol will NOT be the one I used last year, a Victory model S&W 38spl. I was at a disadvantage on the reloads and just could keep up with the pistols. This year will most likely be my BHP.
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