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Old August 02, 2018, 11:03   #1
raubvogel
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Indiana cop, leg, pistol. You know the drill

https://www.wthr.com/article/anderso...ts-wounds-self

No dancing involved though
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Old August 02, 2018, 11:32   #2
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Indiana cop, leg, pistol. You know the drill




https://www.wthr.com/article/anderso...ts-wounds-self

No dancing involved though
According to the radio traffic, Calhoun was wounded in a hand when the firearm discharged.


.................
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Old August 02, 2018, 22:26   #3
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Glock?
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Old August 03, 2018, 11:44   #4
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Glocks have been selected for years on low $$$ contracts, by municipal purchasing clerks, who do not have to carry Glocks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-mistake.html
A link from 2008 in England, blaming the Glock 17 for an epidemic of self wounding incidents, by officers.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...jfJrWUTSYKt0J/

Reloading under stress, with your finger in the trigger guard, has to be like handling a grenade.
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Old August 03, 2018, 13:47   #5
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Blaming a Glock? Are y'all delusional?
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Old August 03, 2018, 13:51   #6
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Glocks NEVER pull their own triggers!

Anyone wants to really witness accidental discharges, spend some quality time with any of ""America's Finest"" once they pass by the lock and load line of departure.

"Sarge,,,,,I don't know how that happen!" should never be uttered by America's Finest!

Makes'em sound really dumb!
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Old August 03, 2018, 18:57   #7
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Glocks NEVER pull their own triggers!

Anyone wants to really witness accidental discharges, spend some quality time with any of ""America's Finest"" once they pass by the lock and load line of departure.

"Sarge,,,,,I don't know how that happen!" should never be uttered by America's Finest!

Makes'em sound really dumb!
Yep. Consider that the ones that claim to not know how guns go bang are all too often the only ones permitted to carry 'em in certain areas/situations. Wrong as two boys kissin, that...
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Old August 03, 2018, 20:10   #8
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I have heard of AD when the Glock was being reholstered in ccw and the shirt got in the trigger guard. The fellow went to an H&K P7 after that.
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Old August 04, 2018, 11:10   #9
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Glocks have been selected for years on low $$$ contracts, by municipal purchasing clerks, who do not have to carry Glocks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-mistake.html
A link from 2008 in England, blaming the Glock 17 for an epidemic of self wounding incidents, by officers.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...jfJrWUTSYKt0J/

Reloading under stress, with your finger in the trigger guard, has to be like handling a grenade.

Glocks are also chosen by people who can choose anything on planet earth and have the small unit pay for them.

And this "reloading under stress, with your finger in the trigger guard..." means you're doing it wrong. And therefore *probably* shouldn't blame it on the gun.
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Old August 04, 2018, 11:45   #10
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Glocks are also chosen by people who can choose anything on planet earth and have the small unit pay for them.

And this "reloading under stress, with your finger in the trigger guard..." means you're doing it wrong. And therefore *probably* shouldn't blame it on the gun.

so the loose nut holding the Glock (or insert your choice of firearm here) is the problem
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Old August 04, 2018, 18:05   #11
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so the loose nut holding the Glock (or insert your choice of firearm here) is the problem
YES, it is.


In my lifetime I've accrued 3 NEGLIGENT discharges.

The first with a M629 Smith...damn near lost a pinky toe, and absolutely ruined a fine pair of Tony Lama boots.

Second was an UZI B that I inadvertently used to ventilate the roof on my mobile home...nothing a little Snowseal wouldn't fix though.

Last and most recent...probably 15 yrs. back, hastily holstering a G19 in the bedroom and got my damn finger in the way. Sent a 147gr. through the mattress and floor, into our crawlspace.


The point is that IMHO, there's no such thing as an Accidental discharge. Firearms go off when the people interacting with them aren't paying attention, period.
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Old August 04, 2018, 20:47   #12
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YES, it is.


In my lifetime I've accrued 3 NEGLIGENT discharges.

The first with a M629 Smith...damn near lost a pinky toe, and absolutely ruined a fine pair of Tony Lama boots.

Second was an UZI B that I inadvertently used to ventilate the roof on my mobile home...nothing a little Snowseal wouldn't fix though.

Last and most recent...probably 15 yrs. back, hastily holstering a G19 in the bedroom and got my damn finger in the way. Sent a 147gr. through the mattress and floor, into our crawlspace.


The point is that IMHO, there's no such thing as an Accidental discharge. Firearms go off when the people interacting with them aren't paying attention, period.
any honest man will admit to NDs
yeah, did several as a youngster and all in my parents home.

First one was in the kitchen, put a hole in the wall with my Ruger pistol at maybe 12

Second was in the basement. Bought a .58 Springfield, wanted to pull the breech plug wich was frozen so applied a propane torch to the barrel...BOOM
Gun had three minie balls stacked over a double charge, shattered a concrete block wall

Worst was after some asshole sold me .380 "snap caps" at a show
I was hand cycling them through a M11A1 RPB MAC is was working on, bolt slipped...BOOM
Blew up my bedroom TV, snap caps my ass. I was 15 when that happened, stomped that old bastard hard in the shin next time I saw him

Since then every discharge has been on purpose.

Glocks:
They are a point and shoot design
the only real safety is between one's ears
really the worst thing to put in the hands of dummies

It was awful when they 1st hit the market
just a ton of ADs with coppers they had transitioned from DA revolvers to this new system.
St. Paul was maybe the 1st major PD to adopt the G17
whole bunch of cops ended up back shooting perps
reason ?
it was just natural to take up some slack on DA revolvers, do that with a Glock the result is a discharge

Look, if an officer draws his side arm you better believe his finger is on the trigger, it's Game On. I expect nothing less
crazy thing, fools used to bitch about the 1911 being unsuitable for LE work
S&W developed the M39 to overcome these objections with it's DA operational system. Problem was when the bean counters shifted to Glocks very little training was done, still really isn't
big difference between pulling triggers through a full DA arc and going into fight or flight mode and dumping magazines with Glock style "safe action" triggers

most police are simply not gun fighters, never will be so it's pray and spray
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Old August 05, 2018, 08:28   #13
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Blaming a Glock? Are y'all delusional?
Thank you!

I'm pretty sure that V guy should not be carrying a gun...
From his vibe in this thread and others, it seems that he can't handle the fact that a gun can/should (and will) go "bang" when you pull the trigger, without having to manipulate some other sort of mechanical safety.
He apparently feels that this fact makes a Glock unsafe.

If you can't keep your finger off of the trigger until you are absolutely sure that you're ready to destroy something, then you may need to review and re-instill the the basics of firearm handling into your head.
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Old August 05, 2018, 15:55   #14
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draw your own conclusions ...........

rock - paper - scissors - gun ............ paper won

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Old August 05, 2018, 19:06   #15
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draw your own conclusions ...........

rock - paper - scissors - gun ............ paper won

Seen that one before. I notice the paper bad guy is about a foot away. He should have been backing up instead of shooting himself
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Old August 05, 2018, 19:36   #16
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I would not allow that dufus to be any where around me or mine with a wet noodle much less a firearm.
I would have expected him to be dressed in tactical operator suit to be that clueless. Maybe with some Katanas and armor plating for good effect. And night vision goggles for the late morning weather.
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Old August 05, 2018, 22:06   #17
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Lack of attention and stress, are factors that allow the very easiest of firearms to fire, to discharge accidently.

I have many handguns, and have shot IDPA and Cowboy Action. Time and stress are part of the course of fire.

Single action revolvers are carried with hammer down on an empty chamber, in competition.
Rugers revolver, transfer bar idea, has been transplanted into new Colt Clone Single Actions, too.

The S&W model 59, type of drop hammer safety, and other similar, double action features in many of the new semi auto pistols, are not foolproof, but much more accident proof and safer to carry in condition one. IDPA reloads are fun with 1911's, and double action, first shot semis. Glocks have their own class, and ambulance.

With age, come slower and semi arthritic fingers; fat fingers and arthritis, coupled with a basically unsafe design like the Glock, is a recipe for disaster for any middle aged cop.

I challenge you to come up with another handgun, that has the same record and reputation for wounding the user, as the Glock has.

I will not handle a Glock; most are loaded ready to go anyway. Ask the owners.

I guess it is like having the biggest dick, or most tats, that having a Glock, somehow makes you a "man among men"?

No thanks, I will keep my toes.
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Old August 05, 2018, 22:15   #18
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I guess it is like having the biggest dick, or most tats, that having a Glock, somehow makes you a "man among men"?
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It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
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Old August 06, 2018, 07:50   #19
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I guess it is like having the biggest dick, or most tats, that having a Glock, somehow makes you a "man among men"?

No thanks, I will keep my toes.
I typed a big reply, but decided on another route.
Seems you've been in a similar discussion before.
I believe a man asked you to show him one time that a factory Glock went bang, without someone pulling the trigger.
IIRC you never did...

A gun that goes bang when (and only when) the trigger is pulled is not unsafe.
It's doing what it was designed to do.
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Old August 06, 2018, 07:58   #20
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With age, come slower and semi arthritic fingers; fat fingers and arthritis, coupled with a basically unsafe design like the Glock, is a recipe for disaster for any middle aged cop.
So, with slower reaction times, arthritis and fat fingers, you want more things to fukc with if/when you have to defend your life?!?!

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I challenge you to come up with another handgun, that has the same record and reputation for wounding the user, as the Glock has.
Show me a semi-auto handgun that has proven (time and again) to be more reliable.
And/or show me a time that a Glock has shot the user without the trigger being manipulated in one way or another.
Don't show me "operator error"...

You can't blame a gun for the incompetence of the user.
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Old August 06, 2018, 09:27   #21
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Safety's were designed and installed by gun designers, for one reason and one reason only.

People.
GI's, police, the general public...........everyone has a bad moment or two. AD's are a fact of life. No one is perfect.

Glock simply has/had, a very low opinion of, and regard for his users.
It is not a safety on a Glock, it is virtually a straightened grenade pin, ready to drop out.

A double action, first shot semi, is the way to go.

Even the 1911 has a much better safety, when in condition one.
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Old August 06, 2018, 09:37   #22
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Safety's were designed and installed by gun designers, for one reason and one reason only.

People.
GI's, police, the general public...........everyone has a bad moment or two. AD's are a fact of life. No one is perfect.
In this post you seem to finally agree, and I'll ignore some of your "personal" and "un-proven/biased opinions"...

You sounded like a Liberal!

Quit blaming the gun!
Quit calling a Glock unsafe!
People are unsafe!

Glocks are not...
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Old August 06, 2018, 09:45   #23
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A double action, first shot semi, is the way to go.
Have you ever even shot a Glock?!?!

WTF?!?!



What kind of trigger do you think a Glock has?
Standard trigger takes 5.5 lbs to pull!
It ain't no "hair trigger"...
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Old August 06, 2018, 16:46   #24
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Seems you've been in a similar discussion before.
I believe a man asked you to show him one time that a factory Glock went bang, without someone pulling the trigger.
IIRC you never did...

Quote:
Originally Posted by base704 View Post
Show me a semi-auto handgun that has proven (time and again) to be more reliable.
And/or show me a time that a Glock has shot the user without the trigger being manipulated in one way or another.
Don't show me "operator error"...
Yo!?
V guy?
Show me how unsafe those Glocks are.
I'm waiting...
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Old August 06, 2018, 18:22   #25
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Glocks require holsters, Mexican carry is a big no no otherwise they R as safe as any other handgun as long as the operator does his part & understands the weapon.
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Old August 06, 2018, 20:14   #26
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I have nothing against men who carry their Glocks with the barrel pointed towards their balls or sausage.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
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Old August 06, 2018, 20:31   #27
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I am happy to report, dodged another bullet I did today, that my Glock 32 carried in an old fashioned leather Desantis thumb break holster, did not once shoot me all day!
I favor the DeSantis thumb break. FBI Cant. Just aft of my hip. I thought it was the Viper, but it looks like the new viper is a bit different.


But the Galco Fletch High Ride is pretty good too.
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Old August 07, 2018, 08:38   #28
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With all this, Glock pistols are dangerous talk, some folks would have a heart attack when I have mine riding in Yaqui slides from time to time.
I have a Yaqui slide fro my 26, but I wouldn't want to get in any physical activity without a thumbbreak. The SOB is also nice for people working a counter all day.

For IWB, the Summer special.
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Old August 07, 2018, 09:42   #29
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Safety's were designed and installed by gun designers, for one reason and one reason only.

People.
GI's, police, the general public...........everyone has a bad moment or two. AD's are a fact of life. No one is perfect.

Glock simply has/had, a very low opinion of, and regard for his users.
It is not a safety on a Glock, it is virtually a straightened grenade pin, ready to drop out.

A double action, first shot semi, is the way to go.

Even the 1911 has a much better safety, when in condition one.
Glock were made for Joe average, it's the model 10 Smith of autos, point gun and pull trigger. Simple gun for simple people.
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Old August 07, 2018, 14:48   #30
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I am waiting for all those stories of how a S&W 659 or a Sig, or even a Ruger transferbar single action, have shot so many of those who carry them casually, or under stress.

Even a recent story of how a 1911 shot the carrier, would be nice.

People hated seatbelts, because they wanted to be thrown from the car. People hated airbags, because they obstructed vision in an accident.


I guess, like tats, carrying a Glock proves you are the "biggest".............
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Old August 07, 2018, 16:35   #31
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I am waiting for all those stories of how a S&W 659 or a Sig, or even a Ruger transferbar single action, have shot so many of those who carry them casually, or under stress.

Even a recent story of how a 1911 shot the carrier, would be nice.

People hated seatbelts, because they wanted to be thrown from the car. People hated airbags, because they obstructed vision in an accident.


I guess, like tats, carrying a Glock proves you are the "biggest".............
Even worse since the Glock is so easy to use anyone can pull the trigger. How many cops are shot with their own gun because it's a glock? Back when guns had safeties the bad guy had to figure out how to get the safety off before he could kill the cop, not with a Glock, point gun and pull trigger.
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Old August 07, 2018, 19:11   #32
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Even worse since the Glock is so easy to use anyone can pull the trigger. How many cops are shot with their own gun because it's a glock? Back when guns had safeties the bad guy had to figure out how to get the safety off before he could kill the cop, not with a Glock, point gun and pull trigger.
Every time I start to think that you may have some sense, you prove me wrong.
You have no business in this conversation...go back to your .25 cal w/safety and your truck.You're not bright enough for anything more.

V guy...

Check post #31.
I'm sick of your "big" BS and your apparent fetish for tattoos.

Answer my questions. Quit dancing.

BTW...
Like I said before, if you're not smart enough to remember that the gun will go bang when you pull the trigger, maybe you should leave gun play to the adults.
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Old August 07, 2018, 19:21   #33
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[QUOTE=V guy;4617772]I am waiting for all those stories of how a S&W 659 or a Sig, or even a Ruger transferbar single action, have shot so many of those who carry them casually, or under stress.


Oh...Do you mean like the SIG P320?

The one that goes bang when you drop it?
You know?! The one they had to offer "enhancements" for?
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Old August 07, 2018, 19:30   #34
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I'll check back to see if you actually offer some real answers...
If all I see is more of the same BS, I'm out.
Simply because it finally dawned on me that I'm arguing with an idiot.
I can't win. You aren't smart enough to know when you've been beat.
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Old August 07, 2018, 22:37   #35
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I believe a man asked you to show him one time that a factory Glock went bang, without someone pulling the trigger.
IIRC you never did.
Actually, I asserted that it is mechanically impossible for a Glock to fire without pulling the trigger - I offered him a cash reward to demonstrate the contrary. All he did was huff and puff, so I put him on ignore as irrelevant background noise.
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Old August 07, 2018, 23:18   #36
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Ignorance is the real killer with Glocks. First Tupperware case glock came out with was done away with because of accidental discharges when putting the gun in the case. Here is a picture of gun in case and when the gun goes off no finger was on the trigger. However this picture is for observation as to how they first had AD.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...x=6&ajaxhist=0

Deal with a Glock is anything in the trigger guard can make it go off if there is enough pressure. So if you need proof that you don't need a finger on the trigger just get the old box and shove loaded glock in it.
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Old August 07, 2018, 23:42   #37
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Ignorance is the real killer with Glocks.
You better not buy one then.
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Old August 08, 2018, 06:28   #38
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I guess, like tats, carrying a Glock proves you are the "biggest".............
Man, that really hurts. I have tats, and I carry a Glock. I've carried one, concealed every day, for a long, long time. I even do stupid stuff, like re-holster while driving after taking a potshot or three at a coyote. Even dropped the thing once when it was really cold and I could barely feel my hands. But I did manage to KEEP MY FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER.

On a side note - I shot both my 27 and a Walther P1 yesterday. If that Walther held more rounds, I might switch. That is a fun, easy gun to shoot.
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Old August 08, 2018, 17:31   #39
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Ignorance is the real killer with Glocks. First Tupperware case glock came out with was done away with because of accidental discharges when putting the gun in the case. Here is a picture of gun in case and when the gun goes off no finger was on the trigger. However this picture is for observation as to how they first had AD.
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point.

Read it again BJ. Nice and slow.

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Show me a semi-auto handgun that has proven (time and again) to be more reliable.
And/or show me a time that a Glock has shot the user without the trigger being manipulated in one way or another. Don't show me "operator error"...
The context here is very pertinent to the discussion Jim.
Try to keep up.
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Old August 10, 2018, 10:12   #40
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I have another true story to tell.

I had a friend who owned a PPK. It was the normal single action/double action PPK with a safety.

He kept bragging about how safe it was, even with one in the chamber. He was forever pulling it out and brandishing it.

He pulled it out one day, and immediately dropped it; it landed on the exposed hammer, AND IT WENT OFF.

The bullet hit one of his fingers, taking a chunk out of it, while he was standing over it, when it went off.

It was not supposed to be able to fire, but did. Familiarity breeds contempt.


I drop things all the time nowadays, as my arthritic fingers let go. Keys and small objects, tools, etc.

No Glocks for me, big watches, or tats.
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Old August 10, 2018, 10:36   #41
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I have a true story to tell. I was using my gun, I told the girl that it was "safe". It went off before I expected it to, she was pissed.
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Old August 10, 2018, 14:10   #42
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I have another true story to tell.

I had a friend who owned a PPK. It was the normal single action/double action PPK with a safety.

He kept bragging about how safe it was, even with one in the chamber. He was forever pulling it out and brandishing it.

He pulled it out one day, and immediately dropped it; it landed on the exposed hammer, AND IT WENT OFF.

The bullet hit one of his fingers, taking a chunk out of it, while he was standing over it, when it went off.

It was not supposed to be able to fire, but did. Familiarity breeds contempt.


I drop things all the time nowadays, as my arthritic fingers let go. Keys and small objects, tools, etc.

No Glocks for me, big watches, or tats.
I am a life member of a big local gun club and shot all kinds of games and was an RO for many years. As an RO you see everyone's gun handling ability in the match really close up. Between match stress and adrenaline the motor skills really suffer. Along with ability you see what runs good and what doesn't, what shoots straight and what just hits the target.

If the matches were true life or death would the contestants carry the same gun? How many Glocks won an open match in IPSC? Why is it Glock matches are just for Glocks?

There are lots of guns out there that sell because they are lighter or smaller and I admit I carry some of them on a regular basis but I feel I have used them enough to know their pluses and minuses. I like to learn a lot about a gun I carry and my worthless opinion is Glocks are the model 10 smith's of automatics. Good guns but not the best.

One more point, the NY trigger in a Glock is set for nine pounds just like NY revolvers were because of litigation. 9 pounds was the least amount of pull allowed that wasn't considered a hair trigger. Folks that carry Glocks and may use them should look at this as learning what the court will say should you shoot someone with your glock. Ruled an accident you will be held liable, there is no way a 9 pound pull will be ruled an accident. What's the pull on your glock you carry?
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Old August 10, 2018, 15:54   #43
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Mine is a measured 5.5 pounds. Not going to pull that long stroke trigger with 5.5 pounds by accident.
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Old August 10, 2018, 17:20   #44
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What's the pull on your glock you carry?
Again...
Reading comprehension is apparently not your strong point.
Post #29...

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Have you ever even shot a Glock?!?!

WTF?!?!



What kind of trigger do you think a Glock has?
Standard trigger takes 5.5 lbs to pull!
It ain't no "hair trigger"...
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Old August 10, 2018, 17:28   #45
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I'm done...

The "stupid" is strong here...

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Old August 11, 2018, 00:18   #46
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I am a life member of a big local gun club and shot all kinds of games and was an RO for many years. As an RO you see everyone's gun handling ability in the match really close up. Between match stress and adrenaline the motor skills really suffer. Along with ability you see what runs good and what doesn't, what shoots straight and what just hits the target.

If the matches were true life or death would the contestants carry the same gun? How many Glocks won an open match in IPSC? Why is it Glock matches are just for Glocks?

There are lots of guns out there that sell because they are lighter or smaller and I admit I carry some of them on a regular basis but I feel I have used them enough to know their pluses and minuses. I like to learn a lot about a gun I carry and my worthless opinion is Glocks are the model 10 smith's of automatics. Good guns but not the best.

One more point, the NY trigger in a Glock is set for nine pounds just like NY revolvers were because of litigation. 9 pounds was the least amount of pull allowed that wasn't considered a hair trigger. Folks that carry Glocks and may use them should look at this as learning what the court will say should you shoot someone with your glock. Ruled an accident you will be held liable, there is no way a 9 pound pull will be ruled an accident. What's the pull on your glock you carry?
Plenty of Glocks win Production or Limited Division. Some of the best shooters in the world use them including Dave Sevigny, Taran Butler, Shane Coley and many others. Open division is a whole nuther ball of wax and having shot it for over a decade, a Glock is certainly not the best choice for it. Hard to compete against 1911's with true 'hair triggers' of about 2.5 lbs firing .38 Super Comp shells and that cost over $5,000 a piece.

If a Glock user gets in a self defense shooting, they have the perfect response when asked why they use the gun they do: its what the local coppers use... Unfortunately, you're so ignorant about firearms, you shouldn't be trusted with one.
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Old August 11, 2018, 00:31   #47
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Old August 11, 2018, 01:32   #48
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It's funny when George gets on somebody's ass. Even when it's mine.
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Old August 11, 2018, 03:49   #49
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It's funny when George gets on somebody's ass. Even when it's mine.
He does have a certain style, that's for damn sure!
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Old August 11, 2018, 03:56   #50
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He does have a certain style, that's for damn sure!
gotta love him.

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