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Old December 09, 2017, 14:14   #201
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Originally Posted by Trypcil View Post
So - what might be a definitive list of 'issues' with DSa receivers, such that DSa-rep can get his mantle on, and be allowed to set in progress the rectification of said issues?
I applaud your optimism, really. 😁
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:23   #202
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Thanks for the update
Damn, it came back!

Just proves it's not connected to DSA, or its some asshole that is above the actual DSA customer service Director I spoke too who is looking at all this.

Now that is Interesting.
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:27   #203
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:31   #204
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Originally Posted by DSARMS_REP View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:38   #205
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[QUOTE=yellowhand;4511548]Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go[/QUOTE

Thanks for the update
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Old December 09, 2017, 15:52   #206
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Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go

Just a thought. Maybe give the guy the opportunity to make good on his promises?
There will be plenty of time down the road to flog the "REP", if the status quo remains the same.

Your incessant badgering is looking a bit childish.....and redundant.
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Old December 09, 2017, 17:39   #207
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I applaud your optimism, really. ��
....."more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members." Dsa

Well - Indentify the issues, consider them - rectify recurrence! Surely simple? Well the list could be reduced specifically to:- requires Machining, or requires wescog ingenuity! Thus, so that QC procedures could be centred about those issues, in indentification, such that offending items don't slip thru', and resulting in..... well whats going on here and now!
It has to be a QC issue, by the People meter, as an intermittent and sloppy in part procedure. The devil is always in the detail, and ignorance of the importance of detail - is that it will come back and bite you!
The admission that there is a new approach to the QC process, by DSARep, will be indicative that progress is being made - but proof is ultimately in the pudding! Our part would be to clean up our 'verbage and attitudes' and perhaps - can ultimately give endorsement. The Fal-file Stamp of Approval.

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Old December 09, 2017, 18:13   #208
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Just a thought. Maybe give the guy the opportunity to make good on his promises?
There will be plenty of time down the road to flog the "REP", if the status quo remains the same.

Your incessant badgering is looking a bit childish.....and redundant.
Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.
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Old December 09, 2017, 18:23   #209
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Originally Posted by DSARMS_REP View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
Slick video. Looks like you're trying to head in the right direction. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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Old December 09, 2017, 19:13   #210
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Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.
Thanks for the update
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Old December 09, 2017, 19:19   #211
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Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.
I've read everything here friend, and reiterate what I posted.
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Old December 09, 2017, 20:07   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSARMS_REP View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
You should heat treat the castings before you cut them, sometimes the heat treating process can change the part and throw off all the measurements. Subtle, but enough to cause all kinds of issues for the end user.
The shop I worked in made bolt actions from heat treated 17-4 blanks and it worked perfectly.
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Old December 09, 2017, 21:25   #213
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You should heat treat the castings before you cut them, sometimes the heat treating process can change the part and throw off all the measurements. Subtle, but enough to cause all kinds of issues for the end user.
The shop I worked in made bolt actions from heat treated 17-4 blanks and it worked perfectly.
It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.
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Old December 09, 2017, 21:51   #214
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It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.
Absolutely true.
Unless more time and tools need to be spent correcting the part after the heat treat.

Always an option, tossing out of spec parts out to the consumer. Kind of what's been going on already. That people don't like.
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Old December 10, 2017, 09:45   #215
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I get your point.
At the same time, I don't care what the guys name is.
When he admits that multiple users are on the account, it matters.

For example, if the disgraced corrupt cop and stolen-valor fake commando R1shooter is using this account in addition to his own, both user names must be banned in accordance with longstanding rules.

I agree that from a legal perspective, it doesn't really matter. DSA is liable for the slander and defamation committed by all of its agents and representatives, regardless of what forum they use.

DSARMS_REP was Nikki (Not Nichole, who wasn't working for DSA at that time) in April of 2011. (She?) referred to me as "GP is one of the best on military guns for sure" This is when (she?) admitted that their QC was not up to standard, and was put on notice (again) that the V2.0 mags were fundamentally defective - by the way, DSA still sells them, it's The Chicago Way. (she?)

So if this is the same DSARMS_REP who was trolling the Coonan post, none-too-subtly mocking them for being "cast", it puts the current assertions on their own cast receiver in context.

So yeah, in keeping track of which of DSA's agents and representatives are telling what lies and what slanders at what time . . . maybe it does matter, even though legally it all falls on Dave's lap.

I just find it deliciously ironic that the same chest-thumper(s) who try to act all macho, don't have the courage to use their real names.

At least when DSA's rep Marc made interstate threats of violence against me, the knuckle-dragger used his own name. And even in "too corrupt for Chicago PD" Daniel's drunken ravings, challenging me to a fist fight, he used his real name. Danny-boy may be a drunken lout, and stolen valor fake commando, but at least he's not the pussy that the current iteration of DSARMS-REP is.
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Old December 11, 2017, 17:38   #216
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Has anyone else noticed how foul these smell? Don't know what DSA uses for a preservative, but my FFL says he'll no longer open my packages till I'm there to pick it up. Even in the trunk, it's reaking out my car
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Old December 11, 2017, 19:36   #217
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Has anyone else noticed how foul these smell? Don't know what DSA uses for a preservative, but my FFL says he'll no longer open my packages till I'm there to pick it up. Even in the trunk, it's reaking out my car

Covered in bullshit?
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Old December 11, 2017, 19:43   #218
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Well, so far the mag fit passes. Barrel timed fine. Then I found the bolt carrier binds in the rails about a half inch before the chamber. It'll close if I force it, then have to pry it open.
It's fixable, but for what I'm into it with tax and transfer, I could get a Imbel used or otherwais for anuther couple bills and not have to muck about with hand fitting the most expensive part.
I'm not going to return it. I've dealt with that scenario before and don't want the wait and bullsjit.
I'll make this one work, and relegate it to "beater trunk gun".
I've learned my lesson this time, I swear it.
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Old December 11, 2017, 19:52   #219
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the bolt carrier binds in the rails about a half inch before the chamber.
Check for a "step" on the front of the rail - a common defect of DSA receivers. Best removed from front before barrel install.

Note - when testing for bolt carrier fit with the bolt, pull the extractor and screw the barrel in to hand tight. Otherwise the bolt can go too far forward and interfere with proper lockup, giving a false "fail" reading (binding).
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Old December 11, 2017, 21:21   #220
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Yah, got that sorted, except now the bolt group won't come close to closing on a .253. Gauge. To be sure, this is the last DSA receiver I buy that isn't a early forged. Actualy, **** it. I'm sticking with Imbels.
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Old December 12, 2017, 01:21   #221
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Yah, got that sorted, except now the bolt group won't come close to closing on a .253. Gauge. To be sure, this is the last DSA receiver I buy that isn't a early forged. Actualy, **** it. I'm sticking with Imbels.
And on that note, I'm so bloody disgusted with this thing, I'm ready to sell it as a barreled action with bolt and carrier. The barrel is the SLR CB proofed one I had in the MP, with the XM-177 style flash hider. I'll post pics tomorrow and in the market place, as I'm too pissed to deal with it tonight.

DSARMS_REP, take note. From the DSA web site:

D.S. Arms Inc. manufactures the (ENTIRE) FN FAL 7.62mm rifle system in the United States utilizing new tooling, improved materials and modernized processes.

DSA FAL rifles are completely interchangeable with the original F.N. metric FAL. DSA also produces spare parts and proprietary accessories for the FAL. DSA is not just a partsset assembler like others, but actually fabricates every FAL part in house and through carefully selected qualified long term vendors.


Marked 7.62x51mm Caliber.
Made in the U.S.A. by craftsmen, the U.S.A. Gold Standard FAL Receiver.
Precision CNC machined out of 4140 steel using original FN and Steyr blueprints.
Fully heat-treated, not just induction.
Features a Mil-Spec manganese phosphate finish.
Semi Auto 2 piece ejector block installed.
Unbeatable Lifetime warranty and quality.
Over 70,000 manufactured to date.

Manufactured by DSArms - All parts U.S. made!

I'm not a professional gunsmith. I'm a home builder who enjoys building and shooting the FN FAL. I've built my kits on Entreprise, Coonan, DSA, Century and even a Hesse receiver. Aside from the Hesse, this DSA receiver has been the most problematic for me.
How can DSA advertise these are manufactured to the same design specifications as the original FN and Styer blue prints, when they need so much hand fitting just so the bloody bolt carrier will fit the receiver rails?
I wanted to see for myself if these were a good product for the price. In my humble opinion sir, they are not. I'm certain if Mark charged by the hour to build on your receivers, the end cost to the consumer would make these a nearly $600.00 part, which is in the realm of a IN SPEC. FORGED receiver.
While the DSA alloy lowers and para stock parts, and railed cover are quality, the heart of the rifle, the receiver, as made by DSA, is not a good value for the home builder.
I implore you, as the company rep, to tell Dave to get his companies shit together, and fix the problems with his receivers. A lifetime no bull shit warranty is worth just that, bull shit, if the product is no good.
My name is Rich, and I'm a FALaholic.
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Old December 12, 2017, 01:21   #222
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Bump for my experience with the Mexican contract overrun receivers.
Mark, add this serial to your list of defective receivers. This one from the Mexican contract over run. DSA31962
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Old December 12, 2017, 08:11   #223
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DSA FAL rifles are completely interchangeable with the original F.N. metric FAL. DSA also produces spare parts and proprietary accessories for the FAL. DSA is not just a partsset assembler like others, b


How can DSA advertise these are manufactured to the same design specifications as the original FN and Styer blue prints, when they need so much hand fitting just so the bloody bolt carrier will fit the receiver rails?
How can they? (C'mon everyone, get ready for it . . .. . . here it comes . .. . all together now . . . . )

"It's The Chicago Way".

Yet their customers still need a "partsset (sic) assembler" like me to re-machine their receivers so the correct FN parts will fit.

DSA has been knowingly selling defective parts for years - why would you expect them to stop now?
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Old December 12, 2017, 11:05   #224
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Old December 12, 2017, 14:16   #225
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This is what sours me on any further DSA receiver purchase. They MUST be aware of the problem, so much so in fact, my guess is the "contract over run" is actually a attempt to recoup investment on defective parts. They can't use these receivers for the contract, which means they must replace them with good receivers. So what to do? Dump them on the market, and hope enough of them are "just good enough" to avoid any warranty backlash.
I like this comment Mark;

"I don't know, because I have to do the build to find the problems. If it's already barreled, then I have to pull the barrel, which is more work than starting with a virgin build. So I don't know that I can do it for less than the cost of a complete build. It would start at the $350 rebuild price.

What has been helpful about doing them in sequence, and writing everything down (instead of just cursing, sputtering, and kicking the wall), is that now I can anticipate problems, rather than discovering them at the testfire range and losing all that work.

I have not yet charged extra for DSA builds, but it looks like I'm either going to have a "Out-of-spec DSA surcharge" or charge everyone more and then offer a discount for IMBELs, LMTs, or other quality in-spec receivers. It is currently costing me over $150 in shop time - above the price of the build - to correct or work around DSA's defects. And that does not count the days of experimenting I did to work out these techniques. I can't continue to eat those expenses.

GF suggested last night, that a pattern of defects across multiple people in multiple states, is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. But I don't want DSA sued out of business for their defective crap - I want their defective crap fixed!

And the part that has me so angry and frustrated and disappointed, is I perform all these checks in 5 minutes on a virgin receiver, with a couple factory parts, and a few home-made gauges. Just like I taught Entreprise when they flew out to have me evaluate their last receiver run. I gave them all the different GO/NOGO options for checking a receiver. Nothing fancy, just methodical and disciplined procedures. But they apparently never bothered to use them!

While quality control checks will reveal problems, they don't change The Chicago Way. DSA needs a cultural change, starting with Dave. He has knowingly and willingly shipped defective products for a long time. Nothing is going to change until the man at the top is replaced by someone with integrity. And if the board of directors is unwilling to do that (because they too represent The Chicago Way), there will be no change.

Or someone else needs to come along and make good receivers. But I doubt it would be profitable anymore. But any serious contender can have all the tech support I've collected over the years."
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The $350.00 additional price to deal with correcting defects, providing the receiver isn't too warped, would run the cost up to $650.00 for one of these current parts. One could buy a Imbel or LMT for that price, and not have to deal with the bullshit. This is not worth it in my opinion, nor is the extra amount of time to do the hand work at home, which I wouldn't have to do if the bloody receiver was as advertised, you know "made to original design specifications."
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Old December 12, 2017, 14:17   #226
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Thanks for the update
PM sent, regarding the receiver I just purchased from DSA.
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Old December 12, 2017, 18:01   #227
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
Give DSA another chance and see where it goes from there,maybe they really will fix the issues.
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Old December 12, 2017, 18:14   #228
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Give DSA another chance and see where it goes from there,maybe they really will fix the issues.
How many chances should we give them?
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Old December 12, 2017, 18:18   #229
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Enough or don't buy - they want our business, and our endorsement - the customer is always right?
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Old December 14, 2017, 09:54   #230
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How many chances should we give them?
As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.
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Old December 14, 2017, 11:39   #231
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As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.
Not defending Moses here, but he went sideways all at once. And he delivered a quality product that works. DSA has had YEARS to make things right, and has many, many more dissatisfied customers. So far, nothing has changed.
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Old December 14, 2017, 13:11   #232
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As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.
I'm trying to get a handle on your thought process.

You are the one hammering on Moses for his performance on mags (not unjustified, for sure), but are supporting DSA's abysmal performance over a relatively long period of time with their receivers here?

Just trying to put things in perspective in my mind...

Forrest
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Old Yesterday, 00:54   #233
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I'm trying to get a handle on your thought process.

You are the one hammering on Moses for his performance on mags (not unjustified, for sure), but are supporting DSA's abysmal performance over a relatively long period of time with their receivers here?

Just trying to put things in perspective in my mind...

Forrest
Well for one thing Dsa is actually still active on this site and answering questions,moses never answered anything and commited theft on a lot of guys,which Dsa has not.So maybe you can wrap your head around that thought.Forrest
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Old Yesterday, 11:07   #234
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Well for one thing Dsa is actually still active on this site and answering questions,moses never answered anything and commited theft on a lot of guys,which Dsa has not.So maybe you can wrap your head around that thought.Forrest
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest but anyone selling a product that has known defects, is committing theft.


Also, this is a thread about DSA defective receivers so let's keep it to that subject. Moses mags has it's own thread.
And I totally understand about being pissed about those mags. That is theft as well.
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Old Yesterday, 13:19   #235
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What he said..^^^^^^;
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Old Yesterday, 14:11   #236
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Originally Posted by idsubgun View Post
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest but anyone selling a product that has known defects, is committing theft.


Also, this is a thread about DSA defective receivers so let's keep it to that subject. Moses mags has it's own thread.
And I totally understand about being pissed about those mags. That is theft as well.
Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.
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Old Yesterday, 14:52   #237
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Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.
Machining errors are to be expected, little to no QC and sending out defective products is not.
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Old Yesterday, 18:33   #238
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Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.
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Machining errors are to be expected, little to no QC and sending out defective products is not.
This.
Errors happen. Letting them out of the plant is BS, shitty QC, and completely avoidable. I know, I worked in a machine shop. Knowing product leaving the docks is defective is an insult to the consumer and shows the company really doesn't give a rats anus. It also shows complete disrespect for their own company because it costs money to correct returns and damages their reputation. It's cheaper to do it right the first time and not let defects get out in high numbers.
Whether or not it's theft is for others to argue.
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Old Yesterday, 22:01   #239
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It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.
YEA ,
CUTTING 4140 WITH A ROCKWELL HARDNESS OF 35-40 IS EXTREMELY COST PROHIBITIVE ON MANUFACTURING.
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