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Old December 31, 2003, 02:38   #1
gman552
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"The Surplus Rifle Manifesto"

Here's a link to an article by a gentleman over at Surplusrifle.com:

"The Surplus Rifle Manifesto"

The author rambles a bit, but he makes some interesting observations on C&R rifles and the people who own them.

Call me weird, but there is a certain pleasure in oiling the wood furniture on a late 19th century or early 20th century rifle and thinking of its history and its future. Plus, you can shoot it and make lots of noise and (hopefully) nice little groups of holes in a paper target (or Heaven forbid) in people who mean to do harm to us and our loved ones.
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Old December 31, 2003, 08:26   #2
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I've got to agree. Caressing the wood, wiping off the excess, admiring the machine work, all are part of the attraction.
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Old December 31, 2003, 11:32   #3
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Surplusrifle.com is a great website. The guy that runs it is a class act and all of the reviews are informative and pleasant.

-dk9
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Old January 01, 2004, 11:29   #4
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that was great thanks for sharing
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Old January 05, 2004, 22:54   #5
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I love oiling my M1 while watching The History Channel. It take me back in time.
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Old January 06, 2004, 23:21   #6
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its like disassembling a mosin-nagant and bringing it back to nice condition,sometimes you wonder were this rifle been,how many men its killed or did its user take one in the chest for the motherland,my one fal i redid had 5 upside down crosses on each side of the handguards before the US furniture was put on it makes you wonder.
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Old January 09, 2004, 08:34   #7
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Quote:
THAT is why it is so exciting to get a few bandoliers or Turkish Mauser ammo
Well, I don't really find this exciting as all I can think off is how much my shoulder is going to hurt!


I suppose that is why I don't watch network TV at all. I had rather watch "Wings at War" on the Discovery Wings channel or "Modern Marvels". I get really tired of the "post modern" stuff. And he is right. I DO find my AR15 a chore to clean but I will disassemble a C&R all the way to make sure it is clean. If I loose a spring, I will get a new one. If I lost something for the AR, I would probably wait till I felt like getting it.
My wife says I was born about 20 years too late!
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Old January 20, 2004, 17:32   #8
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Re: "The Surplus Rifle Manifesto"

Thanks for posting this gman. I've been on that site before but never took the time to read this page. It's a nice essay and has some good things to say.

Quote:
Originally posted by gman552
Here's a link to an article by a gentleman over at Surplusrifle.com:

"The Surplus Rifle Manifesto"

The author rambles a bit, but he makes some interesting observations on C&R rifles and the people who own them.

Call me weird, but there is a certain pleasure in oiling the wood furniture on a late 19th century or early 20th century rifle and thinking of its history and its future. Plus, you can shoot it and make lots of noise and (hopefully) nice little groups of holes in a paper target (or Heaven forbid) in people who mean to do harm to us and our loved ones.
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Old February 08, 2004, 17:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMDII
I've got to agree. Caressing the wood, wiping off the excess, admiring the machine work, all are part of the attraction.

"caressing, admiring" ? Geez, Ted ya really gotta get out more...LOL
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Old February 08, 2004, 17:16   #10
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Even now, as we type, I caress my 6 (or was that 7) Enfield bolt-action rifles. Wife isn't home, and the beer is cold. Life is good!
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Old February 14, 2004, 21:46   #11
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I'm a bit weird, I like how the old rifles smell. The history behind each rifle is a big part of the hobby. Doing the research about arsenal marks and such is cool. Kind of like tracing your family's roots.
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Old March 04, 2004, 00:58   #12
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SUPERDAVE123: I love the smell of old rifles, too. I have a little room under the stairwell that holds about 40 or so old military boomers. Every once in a while, I unlock the door step in and just take a nice whiff of that smell. The poor people who have never owned or even fired an old military rifle....well, I shouldn't get started! I've been interested in guns since I was a kid, (I'm 56) and won't be selling any of my guns because of some stupid laws. I won't be knuckling under to a bunch of ninnies who have no idea of what they are talking about. I have rifles from all over the world, and treasure them. I love the looks of them, the workmanship, the history that comes with them, and best of all - the fact that I can own them without having to use them for the purpose they were intended. I do take them out and shoot with them, mostly at dangerous game such as paper targets, milk jugs, and rocks. Funny thing - all the people I know that own a pile of guns are the finest people you could ever hope to meet. I trust them and they trust me. I sure as hell couldn't say this about the %#@holes that are trying to take our guns away. kjohn
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Old May 07, 2004, 09:43   #13
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My beloved Longbranch Enfield (born 1950) is my primary deer rifle, still getting the job done in the sixth decade of her life!

Tom
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Old August 07, 2004, 11:58   #14
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Isnt it awesome that when you go hunting with a C&R rifle other people look at you as if you have three eyes? I was told that using my Garand with iron sights would be to cumbersome to carry. I was told that my Turkish mauser would hinder my performance and my chances. All of these guys had their Remingtons, Savages, etc., they had their fancy scopes, and I am in no way knocking them, however, I was the only one to bag a whitetail that day. About 180-200 yrds out, the neck folded over like a limp sock and she dropped right there. 8mm is unbelievable. I used a $60 rifle that I restored, I used regular military iron sights, and whammo! I have a freezer full of prime venison. HAHAHA! none of my friends do. It's like when Bob Barker beat the sh it out of Happy Gilmore---"Price is wrong, ---Bi tch!!"


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Old November 03, 2004, 08:44   #15
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That was a very interesting and enjoyable read.

However, I use tung oil, not linseed.
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Old November 27, 2004, 18:33   #16
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I agree nice sight
I just today cleaned up 2 Mausers I havent' touched since they came in a couple yrs ago.
will shoot them soon
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Old January 31, 2005, 20:22   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ltcboy
It's like when Bob Barker beat the sh it out of Happy Gilmore---"Price is wrong, ---Bi tch!!"
Haha! Nicely put.

There's defiantely a comforting quality about old guns, as id they are some kind of lost art form; not to mention the fact they are the guns that shaped history for the last century.

I have always been fascinated by older firearms and I could relate to everything that was said in the article, even though I'm just a young'in.
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Old February 17, 2005, 07:39   #18
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Gotta luv them Ol' Boyz

Here's a couple of my Enfields , starting with one which I've used for deer hunting , for over 30yrs.....

1943 Lee Enfield No.4Mk1* Longbranch .303brit ( Canadian )




Even when India's Ishapore Enfield went to the 7.62nato in the ' 60's the history and uniqueness remained by staying with the No.1 design....

1968 RFI 2A1 Ishapore 7.62nato ( India )



RFI 2A1 with chargers...



Longbranch with chargers...


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Old April 16, 2005, 19:02   #19
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I have a April 1942 M1 Garand, and when I get it out I wonder was it with my dad in the Pacific or my uncle at the battle of the buldge. I love that rifle, it will never go anywhere except to one of my boys.
Having a piece of history is a great thrill, and it reminds me of the great struggle that it may have been in.
Protect them they do not make any more of them.
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Old January 26, 2006, 02:22   #20
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I have a "Radom" Polish Mauser that was made in 1934, and even managed to find about 5 boxes of Polish 8mm to go with it. I THINK it even still has the original sling with it, but I'm not sure. I would be willing to bet it fired some of the first shots of the second world war. I sure do wish it could talk! Never have fired this particular rifle, but I just enjoy having it around, and showing it to people who are interested in that sort of thing.
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Old April 19, 2006, 17:47   #21
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Since young impressionable people use this forum and it would not serve our cause to have them repeat misinformation citing FAL Files , I must quibble with this passage:

"The Modern age lasted until, many will argue, the assassination of JFK. Others will argue that postmodern society began in the 1950ís; still others will argue that it was born much later.

Postmodernism is a difficult concept to grasp. It is all around us and permeates our lives. It is especially an American phenomenon, but has since spread to other parts of the world."


Postmodernism is not particularly a political phenomenon, and even to the extent that it is nobody would make the argument that it begins at the assassination of JFK. Nor does the modern age end at this point. A better point (if we insist on artificial demarcations) to think of as the beginning of postmodernism is the first World War. It was this experience more than any other that made Western man reconsider his institutions, faith, and meaning.

That postmodernism extends so far as firearm design is equally dubious. Is it true that "AR-15/M-16 rifles are clearly postmodern" because they use plastics? Maybe. But the SKS, which the manifesto author includes in his list of good old rifles, definitely exhibits cheap features indicating resource-conscious production. And the claim doesn't fully explain why a weapon like the FAL has the same old-gun appeal even with its plastic parts and mid-20th century origin.

Rather than postmodern, a more correct word and concept to apply to our age is post-industrial. In today's "information economy" we increasingly posess specialized, intangible knowledge, which can make opening the hood of a late model car or the case of a PC intimidating experiences. In this context, Mr. Locke does correctly identify the magic of old-economy artifacta, of which guns are an important part:

"if the rifle could talk, it would speak of the horrors of war, and of the necessity to protect freedom.

That old, beat up, cosmoline-coated rifle sitting in the gun shop (for a hundred bucks) is the ticket to escape the postmodern matrix. It is a tool that leads to further knowledge.


Will the generations that succeed remark with such enthusiasm when they uncover our relics? Will your grandchildren be excited when they find the old inkjet printer ("Inkjet? What's ink?", they'll say) in your attic? Hardly; the printer will represent to them what it does to us, a disposable means to an economic end, whose workings and purpose are not readily clear. Will they be excited about your firearms? Yes; it will be a true machine unto itself, a piece of military, industrial, and political history whose model name may be already known to their minds, and will forever document, in steel, the world that was.

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Old October 12, 2006, 17:17   #22
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Old rifles

Most of my rifles are older than I am, if I were a firearm I would qualify as
C&R. Possibly the most interesting rifle is a M1891 Mosin Nagant. Made at
Izhvesk Arsenal in 1914 with full Russian Imperial markings, also marked
"Deutches Reich" with Imperial German eagle on stock, circle B for Bulgaria
on the right side of the chamber. It also has Turkish characters representing the serial number
on the reciever, and the Finnish "SA" property mark on left side of chamber.
"Could it but speak........"
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Old October 12, 2006, 19:10   #23
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Re: Old rifles

Quote:
Originally posted by royke
Most of my rifles are older than I am, if I were a firearm I would qualify as
C&R. Possibly the most interesting rifle is a M1891 Mosin Nagant. Made at
Izhvesk Arsenal in 1914 with full Russian Imperial markings, also marked
"Deutches Reich" with Imperial German eagle on stock, circle B for Bulgaria
on the right side of the chamber. It also has Turkish characters representing the serial number
on the reciever, and the Finnish "SA" property mark on left side of chamber.
"Could it but speak........"
Russian - German - Turkish - Bulgarian - Finnish

How many unmarked owners?

That's an amazing history. It's too bad that we really can't trace it more accurately than that. I would love to hear the whole story.
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Old November 22, 2006, 20:01   #24
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I realize this is an old thread, but I love the ols stuff and have for XX years! Can't get into how many, makes me feel old.
I Have accumulated one each of every main battle rifle from WW1 &2 along with all the appropriate slings, cleaning supplies, bayonets, helmets, pouches, canteens ect. and at least one pistol for each .....all in excellent condition, and a few unissued. Only 3 rifles have import marks...one is an unissued M44(russian)..I unwrapped it at the importers warehouse many years ago( a story in itself)
All are highly shootable, but who has time?
I hope this thread gets going again, I love to talk old soldier guns
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Old December 05, 2006, 08:56   #25
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Ah I love my Mosin Nagant. The big long one. Every time that it goes to the range with a German 8mm Mauser the conversation invariably comes around to whether or not they saw action against each other. We could check dates, etc... but that would remove the mystique.

The other thing that we talk about is how could 2 opposing armies shoot at each other all day with these mules.
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Old December 05, 2006, 10:21   #26
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EBRs are fun to shoot, but I usually find myself handling the older C & R type bolt action Enfields, Mosins, Mausers, etc. more often. And enjoying it more. Even the crude, wartime production Mosins of WWII seem to ooze character as well as cosmoline and shellac chips.
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Old December 06, 2006, 20:40   #27
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This is my rifle. There are many like it. But, this one is mine.

My collection of U.S. martial arms begins with an 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle (replica), a Springfield 1863 rifled musket (replica), M1888 rod bayonet Springfield, M1898 Krag-Jorgensen rifle, M1903A1 Springfield, USMC M1942 Sniper's Springfield, Springfield M1 Garand, M1C Sniper's Garand, M1D Sniper's Garand, M14 and M21 Sniper's-clones, and M16A2 and XM177E2-clones.

I also have my inch and metric FALs, CETME and H&K G3SG-1 Sniper's clone, Yugo Kar98k, Indian 2A1, Russian SKS-45, and AKM SAR-1, SAR-2, and SAR-3.

Thr AK's and AR/M16 guns are fun to shoot, but they don't begin to exude the character of the symphonies in wood and steel of the main battle rifles.

I really get a laugh a the guys with their intermediate calibers and the "Bambi Slayers" with their scoped wonder rifles and .30-30 brush guns when I pull an MBR from its case. They have some ideas that the MBR can't shoot (in truth it's they that can't) and the rifle isn't sexy like theirs (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I tell them that my rifle is a tool; it was built to work under conditions theirs rarely see. It was built to work EVERY time. It was built to function with minimal maintenance. It was the difference between life and death for the man that carried it into harm's way.

And then the old war horse gets to show it's stuff and the smirks and laughs change to wonderous disbelief. The old war horse belches fire and recoils and a nice, tight shot group follows.

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Old August 07, 2008, 11:56   #28
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"Victory at Sea" DVD, SA M1 Garand, cold Dr. Enuf. Gotz what I need!

Now, just to get some more M2 AP...
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Old September 20, 2008, 15:55   #29
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from time to time i will be heading outside to smoke and will have the urge to grab one of the guns off the rack and carry it outside with me.

its not unusual to see me standing outside at 3 in the morning with a mosin or SKS on my shoulder.
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Old October 13, 2011, 00:37   #30
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Is that site down?
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Old October 13, 2011, 08:21   #31
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When I was going through the admission process for the police academy
I had to get a psychological evaluation....just to find out how nuts I am.
During this ordeal I had to take a version of the MMPI.
One of the fill in the dot series of questions had to do with firearm ownership.
"Do I take out and admire my firearms",well...of course I said yes.
During my inerview I mentioned this question,and that I thought it made it
seem that if I enjoyed owning the firearm I might be a loon.
The bearded pschologist smirked and skirted the issue.
I mentioned the machine work of my buddies Luger collection,
the brilliance of the Garand.Of the history those grains in the wood stock have seen.
He muttered something about Freud and how guns kill people.
My next comment had to do the duality of questioning gun ownership in a career where its pretty much mandatory.
No answer seemed forthcoming...
Yes! I take out my older rifles and pistols and admire them! I admit it!
Stone me in the Cazbah,burn me at a stake but I like those old guns.
They have a hell of a lot more character than that hairhead shrink.
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Old October 13, 2011, 08:54   #32
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I think there is no duality. Unless you are talking about a weapon which thinks for itself and has authority to pick its targets and shoot them, guns do not kill people. It is the loonie behind it that has the final authority.

I believe guns can be admired as a work of art and metallurgy, as a way to understand the people that created it and their culture, as a piece of history, and as a technological achievement. But it also should be treated with respect. It is a device created to kill -- this is its entire reason for being -- and should be handled as such. Treat it with the respect it deserves, and make sure others do the same, and life will be great.

Which is the same issue I have with a lot of drivers; they do not realize they are steering, or something close to that, a 3000lb of metal that can smash squishy beings if not properly controlled and maintained. But, I digress...
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Old November 13, 2011, 23:05   #33
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Big thumbs up for all the posts in this thread. Nothing nowadays, -unless you're spending the big bucks on a really high-end custom piece - comes close to these old rifles' quality and craftsmanship, let alone their place in history.

About three weeks ago, I took my Martini-Henry MkII rifle in .450/577 caliber, to one of the local ranges. Only shot off ten rounds, but man! I definately got the attention of ALL the AR guys on the range.
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Old November 14, 2011, 00:07   #34
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There is little difference between admiring a Ming vase, a rare butterfly, or a firearm.

When I hold a Lithgow L1A1 I hold what was known to be mechancial perfection at the time; a unique piece that can be discerned from all others like it; and the history of a small town and people.
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Tempus Edax Rerum
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Old November 25, 2011, 17:42   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abominog
There is little difference between admiring a Ming vase, a rare butterfly, or a firearm.

When I hold a Lithgow L1A1 I hold what was known to be mechancial perfection at the time; a unique piece that can be discerned from all others like it; and the history of a small town and people.
What he said!

As one with a bit of experience in metalworking, I can take something as ordinary as an L1A1 or Springfield bolt and spend hours marveling at the intricate engineering and ponder the steps and techniques involved in making it.
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Old June 17, 2013, 21:01   #36
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The surplus

These are the posts that express the feelings of true Americans and they
scare the anti's more than you can imagine.
That there are countless millions of these rifles squirreled away under
staircases and in attics rarely visited, produce nightmares in the progressives
troubled sleep.
That we can see where this is all going someday, gives me hope.
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Old June 18, 2013, 18:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowprone View Post
These are the posts that express the feelings of true Americans and they
scare the anti's more than you can imagine.
That there are countless millions of these rifles squirreled away under
staircases and in attics rarely visited, produce nightmares in the progressives
troubled sleep.
That we can see where this is all going someday, gives me hope.
Well Said, we need some hope, all of us KrAZy GuN NUtZ who foam at the mouth and hunt Progressives and their Children to EAT.

Get and Keep all your MBR'S READY To Rock!!
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