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Old May 23, 2018, 19:14   #1
Fiorina
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Yes, another shipping question

So Ive shipped long guns lots of times as an individual through my local UPS hub. But this time I have 2 pistols that need shipping. I know it has to be next day air, but I was hoping to avoid shipping through an FFL because the prices are insane. Has anybody done this?
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Old May 23, 2018, 19:46   #2
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Originally Posted by Fiorina View Post
So Ive shipped long guns lots of times as an individual through my local UPS hub. But this time I have 2 pistols that need shipping. I know it has to be next day air, but I was hoping to avoid shipping through an FFL because the prices are insane. Has anybody done this?
If you want to ship by US mail, it has to be from an FFL to an FFL with the shipper filing a PP1508 affidavit that both parties are FFLs.

Next day air is a UPS policy, not a law. Take that for whatever it is worth. UPS started this when the ex-convicts they hire (who work cheap) stole too many of the guns.

Solution
A) Don't hire convicted criminals
or
B) rape the customers more to cover the losses.

UPS chose B.
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Old May 23, 2018, 20:43   #3
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Sounds shady. Meanwhile I get punished by having to pay the extra money for overnight shipping. But if I’m right in what I’m reading online, it looks like I can ship handguns through a UPS hub as an individual.

Edit- I would like to go through an FFL but I have yet to find one who will charge me under 100$ to ship a firearm.
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Old May 24, 2018, 07:59   #4
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it looks like I can ship handguns through a UPS hub as an individual.
yes, as long as the recipient is an FFL.

Some FFLs don't think there are enough laws, so they make up their own - such as they will only accept firearms from other FFLs. This has led some to believe that it is a law and not just some bullshit the FFL made up. Others FFLs pretend it is the law, so as to profit from transfer fees.

I hate doing transfers. It is 95% of my paperwork and legal liability, but 1% of my business. So I charge $50 for a transfer to dissuade people from using me. I happily refer people to a friend with a storefront have been who does them for something like $25. (MLS Arms - I've known Rick & Jessica for 25 years now and they finally realized their dream of opening a gunstore!)

Looking at my expenses from last year, I shipped 193 rifles with the following average

17 pounds
$1155 declared value
$17.58 freight
$11.55 insurance
$5.44 other fees
------
$34.44 FedEx charge (with my discounts)
$5 box and packing material
$0 for 15 minutes labor

I charge $40 to a rifle with $1200 insurance.
My goal is to be as close to break even as possible. But only because these are customer guns going home. For a transfer where I'm not doing gunsmithing, I'm going to need to make something for my time, and the investment in my business & licensing. From that perspective, charging $50 for the transfer plus $40 shipping (rifle) seems pretty reasonable.

Handguns tend to be more expensive with significant increases for 1 pound difference.

Typically a 4# Second Day Air package runs around $40. Next day, 50% more. So while $100 to ship a handgun seems a little high to me, if they are using next day air, UPS and FedEx, then it's not too bad. $60 their cost shipping and $40 for the transfer.
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Last edited by gunplumber; May 24, 2018 at 08:19.
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Old May 24, 2018, 08:14   #5
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Originally Posted by Fiorina View Post
Sounds shady. Meanwhile I get punished by having to pay the extra money for overnight shipping. But if Im right in what Im reading online, it looks like I can ship handguns through a UPS hub as an individual.

Edit- I would like to go through an FFL but I have yet to find one who will charge me under 100$ to ship a firearm.
problem with your state. it's about $20 handling fee in PA.
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Old May 24, 2018, 11:25   #6
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
yes, as long as the recipient is an FFL.

Some FFLs don't think there are enough laws, so they make up their own - such as they will only accept firearms from other FFLs. This has led some to believe that it is a law and not just some bullshit the FFL made up. Others FFLs pretend it is the law, so as to profit from transfer fees.

I hate doing transfers. It is 95% of my paperwork and legal liability, but 1% of my business. So I charge $50 for a transfer to dissuade people from using me. I happily refer people to a friend with a storefront have been who does them for something like $25. (MLS Arms - I've known Rick & Jessica for 25 years now and they finally realized their dream of opening a gunstore!)

Looking at my expenses from last year, I shipped 193 rifles with the following average

17 pounds
$1155 declared value
$17.58 freight
$11.55 insurance
$5.44 other fees
------
$34.44 FedEx charge (with my discounts)
$5 box and packing material
$0 for 15 minutes labor

I charge $40 to a rifle with $1200 insurance.
My goal is to be as close to break even as possible. But only because these are customer guns going home. For a transfer where I'm not doing gunsmithing, I'm going to need to make something for my time, and the investment in my business & licensing. From that perspective, charging $50 for the transfer plus $40 shipping (rifle) seems pretty reasonable.

Handguns tend to be more expensive with significant increases for 1 pound difference.

Typically a 4# Second Day Air package runs around $40. Next day, 50% more. So while $100 to ship a handgun seems a little high to me, if they are using next day air, UPS and FedEx, then it's not too bad. $60 their cost shipping and $40 for the transfer.
As long as the RECEIVING FFL will receive from a NON FFL. its their choice !!!!!
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Old May 24, 2018, 11:30   #7
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As long as the RECEIVING FFL will receive from a NON FFL. its their choice !!!!!
Yes, as I clearly wrote, and you quoted.

What new information are you providing?

They do not believe there are enough laws, so they CHOOSE to make up their own rules in addition to the law.

It is their prerogative. I would not patronize such an FFL.
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Old May 24, 2018, 11:58   #8
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problem with your state. it's about $20 handling fee in PA.
Nothing to do with State. Here in South Dakota the FFLs run all over the map in their fees.

From free (my hometown ACE Hardware guy) to over $50 (LEO wannabee FFL).
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Old May 24, 2018, 12:09   #9
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They do not believe there are enough laws, so they CHOOSE to make up their own rules in addition to the law.
I've only come across one FFL personally that would only receive from another FFL. When I questioned this, he said his concern was in receiving a stolen firearm with no paper trail from another dealer. I pointed out that in a transfer he had a "paper trail" of emails leading up to the transfer and a copy of a drivers license and tracking number when it was shipped, and all that coupled with the fact that we was not out any money if it was indeed somehow a stolen weapon and got confiscated (he did not buy it or trade for it).

He researched that logic a bit and changed his policy. YMMV.
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Old May 24, 2018, 12:40   #10
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I do understand FFLs dealing with stupidphuquers who just ship a gun to them with no information whatsoever.

I've received guns from pack-and-ship places with nothing - no name, no note, nothing. And it's a real pain in the ass to back track it through the pack and ship place to find out who shipped it, then try to figure out who they are.

Whenever I ship a gun, whether it is from me as a private party, or from ARS as a business, I include buyer info, sender info (me), make/model/type/caliber of gun, and a list of any accessories included. Plus the FFL if from ARS. And while not required by law, I include a copy of my DL if it's coming from me personally. I also include this information on the outside of the box in a packing list envelope, so that the recipient can know what's in the box before signing for it. I consider this in my own interest and it takes 3 minutes to fill out a template and there is never any question as to what the receiving FFL is supposed to do with it.

I understand that an FFL who has received a few shipments with no information, may feel that his recourse is only to accept from another FFL. But that is punishing all his potential customers for one or two dipshits - makes no financial sense to me, and I don't believe these vendors should be rewarded for their choices.
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Old May 24, 2018, 13:02   #11
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I do understand FFLs dealing with stupidphuquers who just ship a gun to them with no information whatsoever.
Of dozens upon dozens of inbound transfers, I have had exactly one guy who did not include a note and his DL. He was one who actually knew better, but simply had a brain-fart that day (as we all do at times) and forgot to put it in the box. I learned this during a flight connection and in 10 minutes or so of a couple emails and texts, all was fixed.

Despite all the wailing about our "failed system" and "stupidphuquers abound", I believe the majority of folks have some general common sense and use it. Anyone who does not see that in their daily life may want to reconsider the folks they are hanging out with or doing business with.
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Old May 24, 2018, 13:20   #12
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I believe the majority of folks have some general common sense and use it.
There has not been a day that I can remember, that in my short trip to the bank or FedEx, I don't see multiple people blow through stop signs. It's my pet peeve. A stop sign is not a suggestion. It does not mean "slow down a little bit, then accelerate through." Nor can I recall any time I don't see some jackass driving 10 mph below the speed limit and wandering out of his lane, because he's busy texting. And there is still urine on the toilette seat at any convenience store.

So no, I do not share your faith in humanity. People are stupid, entitled, pricks. Finding an intelligent, responsible and rational person is like a breath of fresh air.
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Old May 24, 2018, 15:51   #13
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Originally Posted by Fiorina View Post
Sounds shady. Meanwhile I get punished by having to pay the extra money for overnight shipping. But if Im right in what Im reading online, it looks like I can ship handguns through a UPS hub as an individual.

Edit- I would like to go through an FFL but I have yet to find one who will charge me under 100$ to ship a firearm.

Don't know where in WA you're at but Precise Shooter in Lynnwood does $25 transfers. Pinto's down in Kent is reasonable but I stopped using them when I had a long gun shipped there and told me they didn't have the box for it when I picked it up.
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Old May 24, 2018, 23:13   #14
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There has not been a day that I can remember, that in my short trip to the bank or FedEx, I don't see multiple people blow through stop signs. It's my pet peeve. A stop sign is not a suggestion. It does not mean "slow down a little bit, then accelerate through." Nor can I recall any time I don't see some jackass driving 10 mph below the speed limit and wandering out of his lane, because he's busy texting. And there is still urine on the toilette seat at any convenience store.

So no, I do not share your faith in humanity. People are stupid, entitled, pricks. Finding an intelligent, responsible and rational person is like a breath of fresh air.
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. My work days are almost exclusively filled with dealing with dip shits, morons and whiners. A couple examples from the last week or so:

"My nephew keeps texting me threatening me to kick my ass because he's drunk." My response: "turn your phone off and go to sleep."

"I got an offer off of Facebook for a job and they sent me a check for $1,000, told me to keep $500 for traveling expenses then send them the other $500 back to them. I did it and their check bounced but I sent cash thru Western Union. Is my money gone?" "Yes, along with your commonsense because you wired the money to Mexico City... "

There are many, many more such examples of absolutely asinine behavior that I could fill many books...
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Old May 24, 2018, 23:17   #15
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So Ive shipped long guns lots of times as an individual through my local UPS hub. But this time I have 2 pistols that need shipping. I know it has to be next day air, but I was hoping to avoid shipping through an FFL because the prices are insane. Has anybody done this?
Are both pistols going to the same FFL? It is not in accordance with UPS regulations so you will be SOL if they lose them but you can mitigate the possibility of theft by shipping them in a very large rifle box via UPS Ground which will be cheaper. Or you could try the suggestions given to you already about local FFL's who might treat you more favorably.
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Old May 25, 2018, 05:21   #16
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Been shipping high value items 30 years. If UPS loses or damages it odds of insurance settlement being paid is 0% in my case. Have a ton of evidence required to provide including your packaging was certified by an independent lab to sustain a 75 pound package dropped five feet onto to it. May be that 75 pound box that rolls off conveyor right behind yours and theft is huge with the brown company. FedEx Ground is almost as bad for me but FedEx express is slick and works perfectly every time. I am willing to pay more for reliable and proven performance.

Use USPS often and while generally works out have some drama on occasion so don't use them for anything worth over a grand and then only if shipper sends to me signature required so there is proof whether or not I left with it. If shipping valuable any thing FedEx express, especially handguns. As to average I.Q., see more people run red lights and stop signs while texting or sitting 30 seconds after light turns green to finish their text I have given up on people in general. Blinkers are a pet peeve of mine. If turning or swapping lanes use them. It's the law and makes sense but maybe 1/3 of drivers I see use them and spend huge amount of time on the road and after being rear ended three times by soccer mom's in SUV's text messaging some day may have to cap one if happens again.
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Old June 01, 2018, 12:20   #17
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CINCINNATI (WKRC) - A janitor at UPS is accused of stealing guns right out of shipped boxes at a Cincinnati location. Jermaine Pulley faces four counts of theft.

According to court papers, Pulley stole all three guns on May 7.
Security was able to spot him removing the guns and putting them in trash cans to get them out of the building.
http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local...-from-packages
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Old June 01, 2018, 12:25   #18
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So no, I do not share your faith in humanity. People are stupid, entitled, pricks. Finding an intelligent, responsible and rational person is like a breath of fresh air.
Truer words were never spoken....

ETA: This is one of the reasons I hang out on the files. By and large the membership here is in the 90 percentile of decent human beings.
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Old June 01, 2018, 14:53   #19
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At least once a week, my LGS gets a gun shipped in without any info, FFL, owner, receiver etc. One time they got in a select fire BM59. No ATF Forms, shipping paperwork, email notification, nada. Shipper was a UPS Store. It took almost 4 days for the info to arrive so we could notify the owner to come in and start the paperwork.
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