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Old May 19, 2018, 09:42   #1
AZ Dave
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Huey..6.5 Grendel or 6.8 What say you?

Your thoughts please considering performance and ammo availability.
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Old May 19, 2018, 10:16   #2
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It's not much better than a .270 Win.
Just to much writer BS !
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Old May 19, 2018, 11:13   #3
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I don't think those are comparable really. 6.5 Grendel is very similar to 6mm PPC and is a precision cartridge and 6.8 is a plow mule for yanking out stumps and plowing fields. The 6.5 is shorter, allows using longer and higher ballistic coefficient bullets but unsure abut the steep 30į shoulder angle. 6.8 holds more power, is larger diameter and hits harder at fighting distance in my opinion.



6.5 wins on paper in most circumstances but does not work for me as a battle round due to its issues with breaking bolts and fat body. I'm looking for a middle ground would look seriously at 6.5◊6.8. Just buy a set of 6.8 bushing dies, put a 6.5 bushing and expander ball and appropriate barrel. Have a 6.5◊6.8 barrel yet to build but ease of just resizing brass and a little more velocity than the Grendel is going 6.5 going with the wildcat. Also have a TAC Six barrel that is 6.8 necked down to 6mm but both are in hold as waiting to see how some other cats progress.

I want a 22 Nosler necked up to 6mm with no other changes as leaves a bolt with plenty of meat on it. As look at the plethora of AR cartridges make sure to consider rim diameter as amount of meat on bolt is important. Seen too many broken extractors and bolts in the larger diameter cases. For now am sticking with 5.56, 6.8 and see how the 458 SOCOM builds go and hold the wildcat barrels as may sell before build them and see how other contenders progress. Am not sure if we are splitting hairs too closely with huge amount of different poodle shooter cartridges. Now have 5.56, 6.8 and 22 Nosler with 458 SOCOM coming behind as a new contender for short barrel subsonic heavy bullet lobber.

If a person doesn't already have a 6.8 and trying to decide between it and 6.5 Grendel I have no advice as paper says 6.5 wins but 6.8 has a lot more support and is probably more durable and easier to support. If building a single hunting rifle that would be used for hunting and not defense would go 6.5. Have had my 6.5◊6.8 barrel some time and can't bring myself to build it. What's your goals?
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Old May 19, 2018, 12:28   #4
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6.5 hands down. 6.5s have been around for over 100 years, lots of bullets, molds, dies, whatever you need.
6.8 is an oddball that does nothing special; when the new wears off, it will go the way of countless others and you'll be left with a gun that will either be rebarreled or useless.

PS, My 6.5 is a 1916 Swedish Mauser.
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Old May 19, 2018, 14:51   #5
hueyville
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If General "Mad Dog" Maddis has any say or pull 6.8 will become our new squad automatic weapon cartridge. Like many M14's already being rebarreled to 6.5 Creedmore the Army says f hey want a new SAW in the field most likely based I n the 6.8 sooner rather than later. In fact it's a primary project due to the 30% stoppage/failure rate of the current SAW in battle. Was announced last month that a reengineered SAW based on 6.8 or possibly 6.5 cartridge is of highest priority. Issue with 6.5 Grendel is the case won't fit the new M68 link which is already in production for 6.8. Why are 6.8 disentigrating links already in production designated M68 and M249 SAW's with patented improvements already in military hands along with a new tiny version that's almost small enough to be carried in a package most would not find odd.



This suckered is 25" long and weighs 10 pounds. Lighter than most 7.62 battle rifles such as M14's or FAL's. With a barrel swap and recoil spring can change this from 5.56 to 300 BO, 6.8 and even 7.62 NATO.



Word I have is 6.8's are in the field and on test ranges along with 300 BO suppressed models in hands of SEAL and Delta Force teams already. A 10 pound belt fed SAW that can run subsonic suppressed ammo could be a cool cat.
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Old May 19, 2018, 14:53   #6
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6.5, because you can usually buy 1000rd cases of Wolf for $230. Cheapest 6.8 is around $0.60/rd. That's better ammo than the Wolf 6.5, but there still is no equivalent blasting ammo for the 6.8. Good quality ammo doesn't favor one over the other. Yes, you might replace bolts and barrels more often if you shoot the 6.5 Wolf but if you're saving $600/1000 you can afford to replace parts every 5000-10,000rds and not be worried about it.

I'm not sure I see a use for the 6.8. It hits like a heavy 5.56 but carries like a light 5.56 at range. The 6.5 hits more like a .308 and carries even better as Huey's chart above shows. I'm not sure why a 6.5 with a spare bolt couldn't replace the 5.56, the 6.8 AND the 7.62 all at once. Haven't done it yet,.....my only 6.5 Grendel is a bolt action mini Howa. Too broke to be playing with new things now unless I sell off all my old things.

Have many other mild 6.5's so I know what they can do,.....Swede, Dutch, M-S. Always been a fan.
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Old May 19, 2018, 17:13   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Dave View Post
Your thoughts please considering performance and ammo availability.
What do you want to do with it? That is the question.

But for me I have been following the 6.5 Grendel since around 2006 or so. I like the performance of the 6.5 Grendel and other 6.5s. While the 6.8 uses a .277 cal bullet the problem is that there is a limited number of bullets suitable for the 6.8 and because your posting the AR section I assume you are planning on an AR build.

If you are worried about the bolt breaking, look around there are some better bolt options out there.

I donít see much use for the 6.8 around where I live. Doesnít do anything that the 6.5 canít do better or that a 5.56 canít do equally as well too.
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Old May 20, 2018, 09:39   #8
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Everyone has to look at their own needs and determine what's best for thier needs. I am not likely to take an AR 15 in 6.8 as first choice hunting. Unless killing varmints where have potential of multiple targets to engage in short period of time I will usually pull a turn bolt that's most appropriate for terrain am going and game hunting. When I go deer hunting my three most popular rifles are a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington, Winchester Featherweight M70 in 308 or custom Remington 700 in 7mm Practical if hunting a power line cut or south Georgia bean field. My 6.8 AR's are general purpose rifles that live in lock behind seat of truck or next to headboard of bed. If walking my farm during deer season may carry a 6.8 but only because have encoutered more than a few poachers that get plain upset when told to leave my property. Most would be welcome if asked permission but when find camps littered with beer cans and hung over group all with guns I want some firepower if they get upset.

After the bolt carrier groups showed up for my 458 SOCOM builds and saw how little meat is left after machining out for case heads ordered three spares and all are premium steel, HPT/MPI and shot peened. They look fragile though the two people I know that have used them a lot in training and one in combat have never seen one break. ARP only warranties their 6.8 Superbolt for three years and have to send in entire upper for warranty for them to verify it was squared and properly torqued. Most of my 6.8's have an ARP or White Oak Armament bolt in rifle and spare bolt in grip. Will do the same with my 458's and would do same if built a 6.5.

If I were pulling an AR for deer hunting would likely grab an AR 10 in 308. Am into DRT kills when hunting, working on a 24" heavy varmint tube AR 15 today for zapping crow and prarie dogs. Own more AR 15's than any other single rifle and in variety of cartridges but would almost never be my primary deer hunting rifle unless Game & Fish would let me go on killing spree around my house and when saw six or eight in back yard would mow them down with whichever AR was closest and get neighbor to bury with his backhoe. Nothing but varmints around here now. I can't remember ever taking an AR on a deer hunt in my life except as self protection truck gun. Always have a lever gun or bolt action.

6.5 vs 5.56 bolt:



6.5 bolt:



6.8 spc II bolt:



458 SOCOM bolt face:



Seen enough broken 5.56 bolts to be very leary of hogging them out even more from a durability and dependability aspect. Except for only planning to use subsonic 458 SOCOM might already be selling the kits have collected.

Kev, Don't sell your old friends to try something new as will likely miss the ones you sold and may not like the ones you bring in as replacements. To me durability is highly important and especially from a military perspecticve. 6.8 was not fielded as do all cartridge but a do more as urban and close quarters combat weapon. I read a lot of information from the military trade sites and newsletters. Guys who have used both on human targets have said 6.8 is a much more efficient round out to 250 yards and especially out to 175 yards.

Have two close friends who were/are in special ops from two different branches of U.S. military and served in conflicts from Somolia, first Gulf war, second war in Iraq, Afganistan and other conflicts or odd missions around the planet. The meat eater recently had a forced retirement caused from fall out of helicopter and landed in manner his armor caused his lumbar disks to rupture just below bottom of armor folding spine like a taco. Why I wear a battle belt. He was suprised when we went shooting and noticed I had brought more 6.8's than 5.56 rifles. He also noticed I was using several AAC 762SDN and 762SDN-6's to suppress a variety of rifles from 5.56 to 6.8 and 7.62 including M1a and FN FAL. Said last time he fought with an FAL was in Mogadishu as were so common didn't draw as much attention walking around the city with an FAL as an M4 or M14.

Said when he went on a walkabout they generally carried 13.7" 5.56 NATO M4's as most likely ammo that an extraction team would have and if had to take 500+ meter shots the 5.56 was capable though anemic. Also said most urban missions that were pretty much a hit and run they pulled 6.8's as could fire one shot then move to next target while general rule unless making head shot all 5.56 engagements were double tap and transition. He and I bonded well as have almost exact same lumbar injury and treatment so was able to hook him up with my nerve block surgeon. Like me he prefers a M14/M1a but with back injury a 6.8 is a great compromise and swears it's as effective as 7.62 on non armored bogies out to 200 yards. Says if they have armor rules changed and why we had to rush M855A1 and M80A1 to Afganistan because Nobama left so much U.S. issue body armor in Iraq that half they ISIS fighters had same armor as he did. Why we had to up our projectile and armor technology faster than anytime in history from 2009 to 2015.

Both friends served in Mogadishu (one is in Afganistan now and says will stay in till day he is benched from active fighting based on age or injury) which 458 SOCOM's were developed specifically for that type of engagement where they needed a weapon for house to house and room to room fighting that could be highly suppressed to reduce sound signature and put those skinnies all jacked up on amphetamines down. Said a man who had spent entire day, days and lifetime chewing on Khat could suck up two or three solid center mass hits from a 5.56 and still fight till totally bled out. Had to take time to get that quick center mass shot followed up by well aimed shot to head. Said that was an issue with the type missions they ran which were often clearing a structure searching for high value target and then fight way to extraction point or back to base sometimes. Both said minute first unsuppressed round or explosion happened then every skinny in ear shot started moving toward the sounds of fighting so longer they could fight fast and quiet the greater odds of survival were. Even kids with rocks and farm impliments would attack them toward end of NATO operations in Somolia.

Both have shot enemy combatants with 5.56 & 7.62 NATO, 6.8 but just one with 458 SOCOM. Both have trained with 458 but only the bullfrog has run missions where 458's were used by primary designated shooters and security guys carry other weapons that were not used till missions got loud or were absolutely necessary and being discreet becomes less of an issue. His report is a single hit from a 458 results in pink mist and a tits up bogey no matter how motivated they may have been. While there is a lot of discussion on development and use the Internet has almost no information on actual use on humans but did see where a guy wasted a deer at 450 yards using a subsonic 458 SOCOM which was impressive as well as the wound channels have seen on wild hogs.
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