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Old June 19, 2018, 18:58   #1
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Review - DSA - Proving DSA receiver warpage.

I reported over a year ago that DSA receivers were warped and they knowingly and willingly sold them anyway (it's The Chicago Way!).

It came to my attention when I had a large number or receivers where the receiver cover would hit at 1 o'clock to the gas piston clearance. Large number being 20+ receivers - I've lost count, but I've got a stack of documentation by serial number.

My previous way of demonstrating the warpage was to lay three levels across the x an y axis of the receiver and demonstrate they were not level.









I also used dual indicators (used for leveling a mill head) to quantify the degree to which they were warped. But this shows the outside of the receiver. How does it correlate to the inside walls of the receiver, relative to the center axis? Because if the center is aligned, then a bit of unevenness on the outside isn't going to affect function.




I knew it was misaligned internally as well, because most would not fit any of several receiver covers, with them all hitting at 1 o'clock. But a bendable sheet-metal receiver cover is more anecdotal than "proof"

I knew that DSA knew these were defective receivers (and sold them anyway, it's The Chicago Way!), because they had grossly over-sized the piston hole to compensate for the warpage.

What causes it? I don't know. My guess is that it happens in heat treat. Maybe they need to affix the receivers to an alignment jig before heat treating, like with AK receivers. Or maybe FN knew what they were doing when they applied differential (induction?) heat treat, rather than doing the whole receiver.

Yesterday I was making a clearance cut on a new build for a para receiver cover. The tooling that I've used for the last 25 years just didn't align. So I dragged out another cutter a member here made, that had removable pilot. Mine has a dead pilot and I spin it inside a brass collar. But I have a number of pilots for different chamfering operations, so by playing with different ones, it became clear that the misalignment was much greater than I had previously thought.

I made a gauge from 1/2" drill rod, bored out for a cut StG58 piston.

This image is with the gauge set up in an Argentine receiver. Rotating the gauge does not change its alignment, so it is "true" to the receiver, and the receiver is straight.



This image is in a DSA type III. Although the alignment block was the correct height, it wasn't a tight enough fit in the receiver to give a fair evaluation. You can see how much pivoting the block changed the point of alignment. Now both ends of the wiggle I could induce, still didn't reach "center", so it still shows "screwed up receiver."



I may end up using this other piloted para relief cutter again. The cutter is fine for an in-spec receiver, since it pilots off the piston hole. Since I can't align off an oversize and misaligned piston hole, I made a new alignment fixture of the same pattern as my old round one, but with a 1/2" bore instead of 5/8". I turned aluminum round stock until the OD was such that the fit on the Argy receiver was perfect. Being cylindrical, there is no lateral play.



I then applied it to the DSA type III and a type I that I had pulled from a pending build. Note that not only is it not centered, but also that DSA drilled the hole grossly oversize to compensate for the misalignment (other receiver was the same).



So when I say that DSA knowingly and willingly sells defective products and has been doing so for years, this is the kind of documentation I collect before making my assertions public. One cannot claim they did not know, when they made the hole over-size to work around the defect they obviously knew was there.

I spent all afternoon doing this shit, just so I could do a para cut on a customers receiver - and have it in the right place! A task that normally takes me 15 minutes. And people wonder why I sometimes seem grouchy!

So now DSA is coming out with a titanium receiver. Really? Why!!!?? Just make a regular old receiver correct to the 65 year old design standard! And when you f-ck it up, chop it up and start again - don't just sell it anyway.
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Last edited by gunplumber; July 11, 2018 at 23:25. Reason: sheet metal receiver COVER, not receiver
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Old June 19, 2018, 19:35   #2
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I don't know how many hours that took but for sure it shows the facts not DSA opinions

Thanks for posting
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Old June 19, 2018, 19:39   #3
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I don't know how many hours that took but for sure it shows the facts not DSA opinions

Thanks for posting
Way too many - and that was after an hour and a half of work to get a new Izzy mag to fit. Spent another $200 today on keyway cutters. Still need to find an upside-down cone cutter for these defective DSA mag wells. Using a 3/32 HSS KEO 304 for plunge-cutting the mag notch taper is not what these woodruff cutters were designed for.
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Old June 19, 2018, 20:01   #4
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Dang Mark. First of all thank you for taking the time and effort to show this to everyone, it needs to be seen. It's just as depressing as it is agitating seeing proof that DSA is peddling this to consumers. The consumers who pay their(DSA staff) paychecks by purchasing the products. I sincerely hope that DSA eventually corrects the flaws. Some acknowledgment of failure on DSAs part would also go along way to restoring any confidence lost by consumers. Then again, humble pie isn't in everyone's diet.
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Old June 19, 2018, 21:12   #5
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Interesting to see my cutting fixture used that way. It sure does show the misalignment. Reminds me of the ORF receivers I built. Yes, it’s a heat treat issue. Someone was in a hurry with the autoclave methinks and rushed the ramp up/ramp down times.
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Old June 19, 2018, 21:13   #6
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GP,

Its depressing but are most of DSA Brit receivers you've seen like this?

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Old June 20, 2018, 08:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorack View Post
GP,

Its depressing but are most of DSA Brit receivers you've seen like this?

Thorack
Yes. Only one out of 20 passed test fitting a receiver cover. None passed mag fit.

FAL receivers, pretty much the same.

I have not had a DSA receiver in the last 2 years that passed a basic QC check list. Their F marked Type 1s failed by less.

Now I'm running into a 100% failure of their alloy lowers, which used to be excellent.
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Old June 20, 2018, 09:18   #8
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Now I'm running into a 100% failure of their alloy lowers, which used to be excellent.
That concerns me as I have one
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Old June 20, 2018, 10:10   #9
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Well, it concerns me too. Receiver lock channel not centered. Lock lever hole undersize - won't fit a DSA lock lever. Bottom edges of recoil plate preventing lockup. Slamming upper and lower together dents the edges of the lock channel (should not contact). I am so frustrated with this DSA crap I could scream! I ended up starting another thread on those issues http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...79#post4597779
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Old June 20, 2018, 16:06   #10
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What a load of crap. A quick check on their part would have caught this. Just another chapter in the DSA saga.
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Old June 20, 2018, 16:14   #11
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What a load of crap. A quick check on their part would have caught this. Just another chapter in the DSA saga.
You're missing the point. DSA knew all of these receivers were defective - that's why they bored out the piston hole to a much larger size (and why I used an StG piston to demonstrate it being grossly oversized). And then they sold the receivers anyway. It's The Chicago Way.
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Old June 21, 2018, 08:30   #12
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Oh snap!

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Old June 21, 2018, 08:43   #13
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Uhmm...2112...it's "gauge".....not "gage"....
Mis-spelling the name of tools does not inspire confidence...
You can call Gunplumber about any name in the book and it will roll off,but inaccurate is not something I'd recommend. I would not want to even guess the hours he has put into analyzing FAL and AK problems,and solutions,and willingly shared those findings among the various boards for members consumption. Bullshit is not in his toolbox.
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Old June 21, 2018, 09:13   #14
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Quote:
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A bubble level to check for warpage?
yes. See the little bubble move to the left and right as I move it along the receiver? This indicates that the surface is bowed. It just doesn't say how much.

Quote:
not what they taught me in school, sounds an awful like your trying to sell your own services.
Apparently the school wasn't elementary school. And unfortunately, I do not have a service to bend DSA's defective warped receivers straight. I can only work around the problems and hope it will still zero.

Quote:
Where's your granite plate or height gage?
My gauges are in a drawer, why? My analog height indicators don't fit in the drawer so they are on top of a tool chest. I have a couple SPI's here and there, a Starrett or two and a Brown and Sharpe - oh and a Federal on the lathe that goes down to .00025", although I don't trust it below .0005". Is my review now more valid?

Quote:
How are you checking your head for square with that dual dial gage. That gage is for checking head squareness which is a pretty poor way to check the milling machine head anyway. All you really need is a indicol and a good dial test indicator which I see none of.
Really? It has worked pretty well for me the last 25 years, but I'm not a machinist - so I don't know the secret on why it doesn't work. This is how you use one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-D1gNYPi3A

I guess it's because I'm not a machinist, that I was able to think outside the box and come up with a useful demonstration of "this receiver is warped - A LOT!"

Quote:
And Your vise jaws are not level.
Actually, they are, to about .0005". But then, I'm not measuring vise jaws, am I?
I'm demonstrating that the reason dust covers don't fit well, and DSA bored the piston hole grossly oversize, is because the receivers are warped, DSA knew it, and sold them anyway. It's The Chicago Way!

Quote:
Original receivers were only heat treated in wear zones. thus keeping the receiver straighter. but modern receivers are thru hardened for better wear and stability. But may introduce some slight twist. This twist is an acceptable trade off in my mind .Because the first half of the receiver is where all the real work is being done, and the tail end is just recoil management.
I disagree. In the level image, you can clearly see that the portion of the receiver containing the locking shoulder is not aligned with the portion of the receiver into which the barrel is screwed. Therefore the bolt face is not parallel to the cartridge base. And when the back end swings the other direction - it is not parallel in its lockup with the lower, which incorporates that extraneous decoration called "rear sight".


Quote:
In the pictures you show a round bar and a carrier mock up with a pin to show the height was off.
Actually, you need to pay better attention - I am showing lateral displacement and why the receiver covers won't fit correctly. I am proving left to right warpage (which is why DSA oversized the hole, and then sold the defective receiver anyway.)

Quote:
But again this is not right. In this application the rail height to the center line of the barrel thread is the critical dimension, not the top of the receiver or the gas piston hole.
Please provide a list of those dimensions on an FAL that are of no interest? In my 25+ years and thousands of builds, I've found just about every dimension to be important. Having the the bolt shift to the side on locking because the receiver is warped, doesn't strike me as a condition that is without concern.
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Old June 21, 2018, 09:57   #15
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Looks like 2112 ran away and deleted his posts - what a pussy. (((sad)))
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Old June 21, 2018, 10:02   #16
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May the defense rest.

I liked this thread better when the folly of The Chicago Way ® was being illuminated...thanks!

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Old June 21, 2018, 11:07   #17
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GP locked that one up for sure. Truly sobering to see how far down the tubes DSA has gone.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:13   #18
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I guess DSA has hired a shill with a much better vocabulary this time. You'd think by now they'd have learned better than to justify their lack of quality in their parts. I was going to use the term quality control, but obviously they have none.

This past Saturday at the fun show I saw a two year old DSA built FAL, has the same odd over sized gas piston hole. I also noticed the change lever hole was a bit over size, as the lever itself would "wiggle" in the trigger housing when you moved it.

Seller complained of excessive ejection force and extraction issues, even with the gas regulator hole wide open.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:41   #19
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Looks like 2112 ran away and deleted his posts - what a pussy. (((sad)))
Here is a classic from a couple of years ago-

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=12


Quote:
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the forged receivers are exquisite. there will be no complaints on these.





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Old June 21, 2018, 12:51   #20
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DSA's current quality is starting to make Century look OK.
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Old June 23, 2018, 14:19   #21
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All this has been going on for years now,yet guys still buy their receivers?
DSA it seems could really careless about Fal's anymore as the money is in AR parts and guns,its the end of the line for the Fal production.
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Old June 23, 2018, 14:42   #22
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President Trump needs to do something about allowing receivers / rifles, to be imported.
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Old June 23, 2018, 17:08   #23
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
You're missing the point. DSA knew all of these receivers were defective - that's why they bored out the piston hole to a much larger size (and why I used an StG piston to demonstrate it being grossly oversized). And then they sold the receivers anyway. It's The Chicago Way.
I have 3 questions for you.

1. With all the DSA receivers that you have, is DSA going to make this right by you; replace, repair or whatever is necessary?

2. If DSA does not make it right, what can you possibly do with these receivers?

3. Are they even build able?
Thanks
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Old June 26, 2018, 18:12   #24
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I guess 2112 doesn't have an answer? What a clown.


Too bad for the U.S. domestic FAL market. I wonder which guys here were talking to LMT, and what LMT would need to be interested in making a run - if they even can without breaking a non-compete or infringing on various rights (drawings, for example).


Mark - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you are a bona fide asset to this community. Thanks for the work and the photos and the write-up.
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Old June 26, 2018, 18:50   #25
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I have 3 questions for you.

1. With all the DSA receivers that you have, is DSA going to make this right by you; replace, repair or whatever is necessary?

2. If DSA does not make it right, what can you possibly do with these receivers?

3. Are they even build able?
Thanks
So far, most have been buildable - a credit to the design (and might I say, my skill?), not to DSA.

DSA's past responses were
1. threaten to kick my ass
2. challenge me to a fight
3. assert that I am lying
4. mention their stellar warranty (I have several guns that came back from DSA's warranty, still not working)
5. Drunken rants on facebook
6. Have their attorney threaten me with a defamation lawsuit. (To which I replied "bring it bitches!").
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Old June 27, 2018, 00:01   #26
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Mark too bad you aren't in the business of making your own FAL receivers. Folks could rest easy knowing they are getting a quality item that works.
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Old June 27, 2018, 08:16   #27
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Mark too bad you aren't in the business of making your own FAL receivers. Folks could rest easy knowing they are getting a quality item that works.
I have been "consulting" with a company that has experience making receivers for another platform. So far it's just been converting some of my blueprints to Solidworks. I am not financial invested in the project, and have zero power. But I think that in-spec receivers would be a good thing, so I help where I can. But I've also done this several times before, and none of the other people have followed through.

I am not a machinist. I have no CAD or CNC experience. I'm just a gunsmith who tries to do my best work, every day (and I'd really like to learn Solidworks).

Apparently, there is nobody like me near Lake Barrington.

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Old June 27, 2018, 22:18   #28
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I have been "consulting" with a company that has experience making receivers for another platform. So far it's just been converting some of my blueprints to Solidworks. I am not financial invested in the project, and have zero power. But I think that in-spec receivers would be a good thing, so I help where I can. But I've also done this several times before, and none of the other people have followed through.

I am not a machinist. I have no CAD or CNC experience. I'm just a gunsmith who tries to do my best work, every day (and I'd really like to learn Solidworks).

Apparently, there is nobody like me near Lake Barrington.

It makes me wonder how many kits are left out there to build on. I would image that you alone have built more FALs than there are complete kits left.
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Old June 28, 2018, 08:39   #29
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Originally Posted by imacoonass01 View Post
President Trump needs to do something about allowing receivers / rifles, to be imported.

+1 ...
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Old June 28, 2018, 08:42   #30
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It's The Chicago Way.

ROFLMAO ... cracks me right the hell up every time I hear/see this.
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Old June 28, 2018, 10:30   #31
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
So now DSA is coming out with a titanium receiver.
How likely is it the titanium receivers will be machined on the same tooling as the steel receivers?

I know nothing about machining and I don't know if titanium requires different tooling or what?

I'm wondering if the titanium receives will also be cast or if they will be forged or if it would even matter?

Are the current DSA upper receiver problems you've indicated here this past year a result of bad tooling or bad skills using the tooling and machines they presently have?

What about the Coonan receivers ... they still doing those and have they corrected their problems yet?

Thanks again for taking all the time to inform us of all this.
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Old June 29, 2018, 08:06   #32
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The bitch of it is;there are lots of receivers out there,that are straight,in spec,that could be bought and used by DSA,if for nothing else,a test mule to which to compare their end product with. The technology exists to duplicate,the machining skill exists to duplicate perfect receivers,and with the computer-driven machines today,there really shouldn't be any reason or excuse to turn out anything that is even remotely out-of-spec. They just don't want to.It's that simple.
I'm currently sitting on a DSA receiver that I bought a few years back,a DS prefix,DS357XX serial range. The barrels I screw in by hand time around 10:00,and that along with other possible unknowns have stopped me from putting it together on an STG kit. Really considering a gear logo Imbel..those seem to be without issues.
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Old June 29, 2018, 10:32   #33
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The bitch of it is;there are lots of receivers out there,that are straight,in spec,that could be bought and used by DSA,if for nothing else,a test mule to which to compare their end product with. The technology exists to duplicate,the machining skill exists to duplicate perfect receivers,and with the computer-driven machines today,there really shouldn't be any reason or excuse to turn out anything that is even remotely out-of-spec. They just don't want to.It's that simple.
It's my understanding DSA has/had the original FN blueprints. There's really no excuse for not producing a quality product.
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Old June 29, 2018, 12:06   #34
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...and supposedly,mine falls within the range of their "good" ones.
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Old June 29, 2018, 14:15   #35
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Makes one hope that Coonan's last Brit batch, thats coming online right now, will be received favorably!
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Old July 01, 2018, 07:01   #36
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GAUGE VS GAGE

http://ledfordgage.com/

http://www.johnsongage.com/

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gage

It is common to use the spelling "gage" in the precision tool and measurement industry....

Just sayin'...
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Old July 01, 2018, 09:44   #37
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[url]It is common to use the spelling "gage" in the precision tool and measurement industry....

Just sayin'...
Except it is not. It is uncommon. It's an antiquated version meaning "a pledge or security" or to pledge (n or v form.)

It was only common when some douche in charge of USGS deliberately used the obsolete Saxon spelling, because he didn't care for the Normans adding a "u". F.H. Newell, 1892.

But to use it today is about as silly as spelling gun "gunne"
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Old July 01, 2018, 10:13   #38
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
Except it is not. It is uncommon. It's an antiquated version meaning "a pledge or security" or to pledge (n or v form.)

It was only common when some douche in charge of USGS deliberately used the obsolete Saxon spelling, because he didn't care for the Normans adding a "u". F.H. Newell, 1892.

But to use it today is about as silly as spelling gun "gunne"
Well what about using the spelling; "gonne"? That IS the original spelling for "gun".

Personally I prefer the Saxon spelling of "gage". Easier.
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Old July 01, 2018, 10:59   #39
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Well what about using the spelling; "gonne"? That IS the original spelling for "gun".
It was spelled (spelt) both ways, in middle English, supposedly derived from the Scandinavian gunnhildr (gunnr - to strike or kill + hildr - to strike, and a suffix assigning a name, ie., battle maid)
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Old July 01, 2018, 11:13   #40
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I thought it was "Hand Gonne" 'cause when it blew up on you, your hand was "Gonne".
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Old July 01, 2018, 11:15   #41
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It was spelled (spelt) both ways,........

....
There must be a grain of truth in your explanation, Mark......







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Old July 01, 2018, 11:59   #42
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Old July 01, 2018, 12:25   #43
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http://www.fowlerprecision.com/Products/

hmm...
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Old July 01, 2018, 13:14   #44
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http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/

hmm
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Old July 01, 2018, 14:09   #45
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gage [geyj]

noun

Something, as a glove, thrown down by a medieval knight in token of challenge to combat.



hmm


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Old July 01, 2018, 14:21   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post


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Old July 01, 2018, 14:24   #47
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What gauge can be guaged to gage a gauger's gage?

Is this gage/guage fighting sanctioned?
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Old July 01, 2018, 17:27   #48
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What gauge can be guaged to gage a gauger's gage?

Is this gage/guage fighting sanctioned?
I would suggest.... https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Linear-Gage-C1680.aspx
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Old July 01, 2018, 17:31   #49
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Originally Posted by preston1026 View Post
It makes me wonder how many kits are left out there to build on. I would image that you alone have built more FALs than there are complete kits left.
Not taking anything away from Mr. Grahams vast experience building FAL's/SLR's but,
I believe the collective here (and others) have many, many, kits left to build.
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Old July 03, 2018, 16:47   #50
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This write-up is in response to your review of the DS Arms SA58 FAL Receiver.

First off, we would like to state again, if anybody has a problem with a DSA manufactured part whatever it is, it’s under warranty. We will then review it with our inspection equipment, and if found to have any issue, we will repair or replace it (Free of charge). Mr. Graham’s claims of being a “master gunsmith” are dubious at best. He is a parts assembler and self-admittedly, “not a machinist”. In our book, a master gunsmith must be a machinist; how else would they be able to make fixtures, create custom parts or in this case create measuring tools & fixtures in order to diagnose and correct all of the flaws that he claims exist with our products? His consistent pattern of bashing us on this forum where even the moderators help him in his endeavors to harm our reputation, shows what his true intentions are; to vilify us while propping himself up as the only authority and only place to turn to for the FAL Rifle. If another forum a social media member states he has had no problems with a DSA product and likes it; Mr. Graham’s typical response to this type of positive post will be to name call and discredit them without having any of the facts. Not everybody who has good things to say about DSA products is a “paid shill” as Mr. Graham alleges. It amazes us that he claims he can measure tolerances like .0005” while using a metal bar badly welded to a used carrier in a Chinese vise with a bubble level – then he has the audacity to call the receiver warped. Even if a receiver was warped, those flawed methods prove to us his measuring processes are incapable of accurately determining that claim – this again is not the processes that a “master gunsmith” would use. Furthermore, if these receivers were as warped as his pictures show, they would not even fit into our machining fixtures or all of our gauges we use during the machining process. We have an L1A1 receiver that was made from the same batch as the one Mr. Graham posted as defective, same heat treated batch and we found no such issues. The only difference between our receiver and Mr. Graham’s is we used the proper measuring devices instead of some hokey bubble level with a welded carrier and an indicator that is used for squaring up a machines spindle. While we could make a fixture like Mr. Graham’s and make it much better, we choose to measure the professional way. Mark chooses to measure in a fashion that he knows his followers may relate to and understand, but that doesn't mean it’s an accurate or correct method of measurement.


Here are some photos that show how we measure or determine defects. These tools are calibrated per ISO 9001 standards (which we have maintained annually for years now).



Receiver Alignment - This gauge checks various dimensions at the machine. It can be rotated on a 2” block to orientate the receiver to exactly 10º to check the locking lug dimension. We use it also to check the locking shoulder to carrier deck height, barrel location; gas piston nut location and top cover groove dimensions. If the gas piston hole was off as much as .005” the receiver won’t fit into this fixture.



Checking Flatness - This photo is showing the gauge from a different angle. From here you can see how this fixture ensures that a variety of critical dimensions are correct. Additionally, this gauge will show that the receiver is flat, true and free from any warping. A hard gauge or fixture such as this is going to be one of the best and most effective ways to check for flatness and ensuring the receiver is true.



Checking Flatness – Here is another viable and industry approved way of checking for flatness of a product. We have one of our receivers laying out on a granite table and then using a calibrated height gauge we will measure along the receiver.



Gas Piston Hole Location - This is the correct way to measure the side to side location of the gas piston hole alignment. Again, we are working on a granite surface with a calibrated height gauge and precision ground V-Block.

DSA uses every attempt to control the quality of its products. However, it is impossible to do a 100% inspection on every part from every SKU – no company does it. If they did they would not be in business long. Occasionally items not up to our company standards do make it out the door, and in these situations, we do what any good company does, we make it right! We have also scrapped many parts, which all manufacturers do; we do not deliberately ship them out the door as Mr. Graham libelously repeatedly stated. Mr. Blake Stevens may he rest in peace, told us of the piles of FAL receiver scrap and other parts he saw at FN when they were making the FAL. Do you think for a moment we did not have any conversations with Mr. Stevens, or with factory personnel during our visits to FN at both factories, Imbel, Steyr or DGFM Rosario??? We have been there, but don’t believe Mr. Graham has been?

If a customer has a problem with any product, we have stood behind them for decades with our repair or replace it warranty. It is hard to even imagine the amount of customers we have served in our 30 years; it must be over a million now. So out of that many customers possibly 1% will be the people who unfortunately get one of these parts that don’t live up to theirs or our standards. How we treat these instances is what sets us apart. Unfortunately, in this business you will have customers that no matter what you do as a company you can’t make them happy, even if it was free. And yes, occasionally some people are deliberately trying to scam us. Those kinds of people are out there, that is just a part of business and life. Despite those people, our company has received a constant stream of praises and even some have sent us gifts to show their gratitude. We only want our customers to be happy with each and every product they purchase from us, as our reputation of quality all of these years has been a constant. We are not saying we haven’t made mistakes like most companies, but the decade long exaggerations along with assumptions and just outright made up stories by Mr. Graham we will no longer let stand.

Mr. Graham and some others somehow believe that in the 60+ years of FAL manufacturing, the approximately 9 major factories who manufactured the FAL or L1A1, along with all of their subcontractors, that every new, used or worn part should perfectly interchange with all others new or used parts. There is a big difference between Mr. Graham’s assembling of used parts & kits and the complete manufacturing and assembling of newly manufactured firearms, parts and accessories – while being responsible for making 100% of these parts. We are not making paper bags here, but complete rifles and components that are some of the most complicated designs to machine. These rifles were originally made with the full force, infrastructure and resources of a country. Mr. Graham continues to attempt to discredit DSA and insists only he; “the master gunsmith” can repair it. That is misleading and dishonest to the customer who most of the time may not know otherwise. Is he tacking on “extra” fee’s to work on DSA products in what seems to be an attempt to take advantage and deceive people who simply may not know better? All of this to enhance his business and charge people for supposed repairs real or not? Repairs that are already covered by our factory warranty. Most people go directly back to the factory to get a repair or replacement under warranty and don’t go to an outside source who then promptly charges them extra all while bashing the company that makes and stands behind its products.

This long term libel and hatred of us, puts into question if deliberate sabotage has been used over the years to enhance Mr. Graham’s defamatory claims just to enrich his own business? The only other motive we can think of is his gigantic ego befitting of his screen name “arrogant bastard”?

If Mr. Graham can’t even machine any one of these parts from a solid block of steel – he cannot claim to be a master gunsmith. How many parts have you made from scratch Mr. Graham? How many of the original factories have you visited? During our 30 years in business we have produced hundreds of thousands of rifles, receivers and/or parts and consulted with the original manufacturer and the other factories.

Again, Mr. Graham’s deliberate decade long slanderous and libelous statements against our company is well documented and will not go unanswered.

His long-time pattern of defamation is now well proven thanks to his own mouth and hand.

He can continue his systematic attacks and histrionics on all we do and manufacture, but it will soon have consequences.

By the way, for Mr. Graham’s information, our company is not located in Chicago. We hail from horse country in the land of Lincoln, the prairie state. His consistent comment of “The Chicago Way” just shows his ignorance, bias and desires to spread un-truths.

(Whoever is the owner of that receiver is advised not to pay Mr. Graham to work on it; you are being charged unnecessarily for his service. If there is truly an issue with this receiver, please return it, we will remedy it.)
We have noticed as well that Mr. Graham rarely tells the customer to return their item to DSA, the manufacturer, but rather he just charges them to repair the “supposedly “defective parts. Why would a businessman who claims to be as honest & respectable, allow a customer to pay him to “fix it” when the right thing to do is return the part in question to the original manufacturer? Profit? Is the simple answer profit? If our parts went together quickly and correctly for Mr. Graham (which they sure seem to for the majority of our customers) would he then miss out on the unnecessary services, and additional charges he charges his customers?

What honorable business man would charge a customer a large fee in order to make something work, when the original manufacturer will take care of any issues at no charge?

It is unfortunate for the FAL Rifle legacy that Mr. Graham has managed to convince so many people into believing that which just isn’t true. Mark Twain said it best: "It ain’t what a man doesn’t know that gets him into trouble – it’s what he knows for sure, that just ain’t so”. We have tried to engage on this site many times in order to better serve its many members, only to get defamed and harassed every time in an un-moderated, unprofessional and nasty manner. This by a few handfuls of haters who have been influenced by someone with a mission and something to gain. We have historically chosen to remain silent and focus on continuing to design, develop, test and make new products for the FAL instead of engaging with the poison we have seen spewed at us and (other companies) on this site, often headed up by Mr. Graham. With this well spent time, we have introduced more new products for the FAL and AR15. Including more about to come onto the market soon, including retro items. You can choose to do business with us or not, that’s your choice. The market has been so small for some of these items, we make a new product and sell maybe 100 of them, then we sit on the other 900 for 10-20 years, but we do this anyways because like you, we love the platform.

Just know that no other company has done more for the FAL in the USA than ours. Including all of the surplus we have brought to market as well, we are the humble experts, not the arrogant ones. Besides tons of surplus, we actually manufacture everything, other's who comment don't, only FN can claim more, but that was over 30 years ago now. We love FN and have shown our respect and gratitude for many years now despite some pot shots from some new guys who don't know our past with them. For those of you on this site who have purchased our products and are part of our hundreds of thousands of happy customers you have our debt of gratitude for your contribution to keeping this revered platform alive.

We will not take this issue to another outlet.


Best Regards to our loyal customers.

Team DS Arms Inc.
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