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Old August 12, 2017, 08:09   #1
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Social Security is Broke

Couldn't anybody see this coming? I'm shocked ...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...y-bank-handout
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Old August 12, 2017, 10:14   #2
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The annual notice that I received ~ 1998 from the SSA stated that by 2013, they would be paying out more than was received.

This information was public knowledge available for many years.


............
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Old August 12, 2017, 10:22   #3
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No problem. Just "print" more money like always. The National Debt including unfunded liabilities exceeds $157 Trillion and rising. Just toss another IOU note into the so called lock box and all is good for another50 years.
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Old August 12, 2017, 10:45   #4
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Naaaa...

SS will never be broke as long as they have willing (Stupid) parents to burden their offspring with a bc & ssn they will have a captive audience from witch to draw from like a vampire sucking a young virgins blood.

And as long as they give those funds to anyone they think is deserving of them including illegal aliens this system is subject to failing as well it should.
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Old August 12, 2017, 12:58   #5
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I am still getting mine and thanks all you guys that are paying into SS.
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Old August 12, 2017, 16:01   #6
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Retirement - Is It An Option?

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Old August 14, 2017, 08:58   #7
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Why are we talking about Social Security being broke when we are in general agreement that the FedRes system itself is broke?

Or is this not generally understood?
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Old August 14, 2017, 09:13   #8
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A trillion...

Example 1: You start a business the day Christ was born, you fail at business and lose one million dollars a day, every day since then...you still haven't lost one trillion dollars yet (736+ billion, actually).

Example 2: You begin to throw one dollar bills into a pile at a rate of 1 per second, every second of every day since Christ was born...you still haven't got a trillion dollars yet...not even close (63 billion, actually).

*check my math, please

157 trillion in unfunded liabilities...sure, sure ~ no worries.
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Old August 15, 2017, 17:40   #9
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Why are we talking about Social Security being broke when we are in general agreement that the FedRes system itself is broke?

Or is this not generally understood?
Social Security is broke.... plenty of money for welfare.

Many people don't get it.
Many people don't get the inflationary and other ramifications of paying once the so called balenced books go too far the other way.

I don't believe we will see mad max, but I DO believe it will change the country.

That's why I have a nice little offgrid place with cows, chickens, a garden and fruit trees....

Little of my meat comes from a store, and fewer vegies every year (fruits will be a few more years.)
It's security. Mad max, or I just can't afford it.... me and mine will still eat and have lights and running water.
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Old August 15, 2017, 18:36   #10
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MMT gents - deficits don't matter, ask Cheney... until they do, as always the WHEN is the ball buster, until it happens we just continue to emit unbacked fiat and inflation keeps increasing - pretty neat trick if you can get all the worlds central banks playing the same game at the same time boiled frog on a global scale - unless you are in a poor Arab nation or some such 3rd world hellhole.
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Old August 15, 2017, 19:21   #11
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Why are we talking about Social Security being broke when we are in general agreement that the FedRes system itself is broke?

Or is this not generally understood?
How can you be broke when you make the money?
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Old August 15, 2017, 19:34   #12
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Social Security is broke.... plenty of money for welfare.

Many people don't get it.
Many people don't get the inflationary and other ramifications of paying once the so called balenced books go too far the other way.

I don't believe we will see mad max, but I DO believe it will change the country.

That's why I have a nice little offgrid place with cows, chickens, a garden and fruit trees....

Little of my meat comes from a store, and fewer vegies every year (fruits will be a few more years.)
It's security. Mad max, or I just can't afford it.... me and mine will still eat and have lights and running water.
You may be the only one really getting ready for a radical change in the American Paradigm, AFAIK from peoples posts here.
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Old August 15, 2017, 19:38   #13
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How can you be broke when you make the money?
Yeah, we shouldn't forget that on a Bank's balance sheet debt is on the asset side of the ledger.

Hmmm, what's on the other side of the Fed's balance sheet? Are there offsetting deposits? And if not, why do they call it a balance sheet? Oh, I remember, owner equity.
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Old August 15, 2017, 19:59   #14
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When what you are making isn't actually money.


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How can you be broke when you make the money?
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Old August 15, 2017, 20:38   #15
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When what you are making isn't actually money.
I still ain't smart enough to figure out what you guys mean when you say it isn't actually money. Last three years I have turned my SS money into some pretty nice firearms, it spends just like money should.
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Old August 15, 2017, 21:53   #16
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Yeah, we shouldn't forget that on a Bank's balance sheet debt is on the asset side of the ledger.

Hmmm, what's on the other side of the Fed's balance sheet? Are there offsetting deposits? And if not, why do they call it a balance sheet? Oh, I remember, owner equity.
Full faith and credit of the US Gov, aka tax receipts, aka debt slavery.
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Old August 15, 2017, 21:54   #17
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When what you are making isn't actually money.
Well, it's legal tender for all debts public and private, so that's close enough for most folks, but I get your point.
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Old August 15, 2017, 22:45   #18
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We haven't had Constitutional money for a LONG time, most folks wouldn't even know what the term means, 100 years of central bank fukery does that to folks
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Old August 16, 2017, 03:59   #19
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The fact that there is exactly the same amount of cellulose in a $1 bill as a $100 bill should be the clue...Gold and silver coinage was by weight.
It's going to get sporty when it hits the wall.It's inevitable. At some point,the mean wage won't support the spending schemes,and collapse is imminent.
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Old August 16, 2017, 06:45   #20
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How can you be broke when you make the money?
... exactly ...
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Old August 16, 2017, 10:05   #21
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The fact that there is exactly the same amount of cellulose in a $1 bill as a $100 bill should be the clue...Gold and silver coinage was by weight.
It's going to get sporty when it hits the wall.It's inevitable. At some point,the mean wage won't support the spending schemes,and collapse is imminent.
Like I keep saying, they have predicted the crash since the 1970s, over 45 years of its gonna happen. If a man hasn't figured out how to have his wealth somewhat protected after that long of doom and gloom then he will be just like the rest of the crowd with nothing of value. When it fails we will all be under the same system and what you physically have is all you will have at the moment of failure.

If it were to crash today the value and priority of everything in life will constantly change until the events over.
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Old August 16, 2017, 16:08   #22
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Many people go a lifetime without having this common knoledge passed before their eyes so try to learn.

We once had FRN's that had a motto like this, Notice that this motto says legal tender as well as lawful money upon it.

This was a bill / note during the time that one could go to the us treasury or one of the 12 fed banks and get real money in exchange for this paper note, make note that the word note means basically a loan so for every FRN you have in your pocket you gave the FED loan,

When will they pay you back and in what form well don't know!! in fact it's not likely that they will pay you back as they have forgotten they agreed it was a loan.

So at one time the federal code title 12 stated what lawful money is or at this point in time the key word would be was.

In the mid to late 1970's the law in title 12 was repealed, the motto was changed long before that but up until that time you could still get par value in gold or silver coin minted by us government.


Remember at one time this note was simply a warehouse receipt to claim the value that was stored for you, IE want your gold or silver OK no problem just take the receipt to the warehouse holding your gold or silver and exchange the "NOTE" for it.







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Well, it's legal tender for all debts public and private, so that's close enough for most folks, but I get your point.
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Old August 16, 2017, 17:18   #23
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Not here to argue but we were pulled off the gold standard under Nixon in the 70s so at that point all that backed money was the government's word. That's about 45 years ago that money is what the government says it is and they say gold and silver are now commodities. Government script is now legal tender and as far as I know it spends like money does.

Now of course script is only worth what they say it is and it's value changes by the minute but it still spends like money. Gold and silver values change as commodities do but if it's money you should be able to take it into any bank and trade it for dollars. Once we went off the standard no longer do the banks see it as money so why is it called real money?

You would think script you can hold in your hand would be money because electronic money exist only in computors as a non tangible item.
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Old August 16, 2017, 18:26   #24
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Not here to argue but we were pulled off the gold standard under Nixon in the 70s so at that point all that backed money was the government's word. That's about 45 years ago that money is what the government says it is and they say gold and silver are now commodities. Government script is now legal tender and as far as I know it spends like money does.

Now of course script is only worth what they say it is and it's value changes by the minute but it still spends like money. Gold and silver values change as commodities do but if it's money you should be able to take it into any bank and trade it for dollars. Once we went off the standard no longer do the banks see it as money so why is it called real money?

You would think script you can hold in your hand would be money because electronic money exist only in computors as a non tangible item.
I find it interesting that folks who argue that PMs are 'real' money habitually cite previous government publications which identify 'real' money as being gold and silver while blinding themselves to the reality that the same government now says 'real' money is whatever the NY fed pumps out of it's ass.

The truth of the matter is 'real' money is whatever the two people involved in the transaction say it is, nothing more and nothing less. It does help if they agree on what that is but strictly speaking even that is not necessary for commerce to occur. The fact that governments at any given point in time encourage the use of this thing or that as 'real' money does not affect the reality of the situation.
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Old August 16, 2017, 18:45   #25
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I find it interesting that folks who argue that PMs are 'real' money habitually cite previous government publications which identify 'real' money as being gold and silver while blinding themselves to the reality that the same government now says 'real' money is whatever the NY fed pumps out of it's ass.

The truth of the matter is 'real' money is whatever the two people involved in the transaction say it is, nothing more and nothing less. It does help if they agree on what that is but strictly speaking even that is not necessary for commerce to occur. The fact that governments at any given point in time encourage the use of this thing or that as 'real' money does not affect the reality of the situation.
There was a time of tulip mania that tulip bulbs were deemed as money by a European country.

If it all crashes I doubt gold and silver will be money again, there just isn't enough to run a country this size. They will just print another script after most of the population is dead.
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Old August 16, 2017, 19:29   #26
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There was a time of tulip mania that tulip bulbs were deemed as money by a European country.

If it all crashes I doubt gold and silver will be money again, there just isn't enough to run a country this size. They will just print another script after most of the population is dead.
Tulips were traded on the exchanges for exhorbitant sums but I have not been able to uncover any evidence that they were deemed as legal tender money by any government. If you have then feel free to share. The larger point though is that if two people agreed that they were and used them in place of, say, guilders to facilitate purchase of a non-monetary asset then sure you could call them money, at least for the duration of that transaction.

But saving any sort of 'official' endorsement then they were no more money than anything else on the Chicago futures market today is. And of course, no less either . In any case I fail to see how government endorsement of gold, tulips or cow dung to facilitate legally binding payment of obligations changes the essential nature of the thing itself, particularly given the arbitrary and capricious nature of governments.
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Old August 16, 2017, 19:49   #27
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Tulips were traded on the exchanges for exhorbitant sums but I have not been able to uncover any evidence that they were deemed as legal tender money by any government. If you have then feel free to share. The larger point though is that if two people agreed that they were and used them in place of, say, guilders to facilitate purchase of a non-monetary asset then sure you could call them money, at least for the duration of that transaction.

But saving any sort of 'official' endorsement then they were no more money than anything else on the Chicago futures market today is. And of course, no less either . In any case I fail to see how endorsement of gold, tulips or cow dung to facilitate legally binding payment obligations by a government changes the essential nature of the thing itself, particularly given the arbitrary and capricious nature of governments.
It seems that through fear or rarity the value of items in their times rapidly changes. Tulips were rare and valuable until they were not then sanity came back. Gold and silver is sold here today the same way, as a commodity that is either rare or sold by fear. Yet people add in the sinister that it's the only real money when not a bank around takes it. It's like you said folks talk themselves into agreeing it has value.

Government gave up backing the currency with a commodity in the 70s and no matter how much people think it is still money it isn't because you can't spend it anywhere at any time. Ya people will take it in trade but it becomes just a barter commodity. I know people will never think the same way I do but it does seem odd to me the reliance of storing wealth in a commodity that you can't eat it or drink it or shoot it in self defence. You will worry about theft constantly and if it gets rough just showing a piece of gold may get you killed.
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Old August 16, 2017, 20:14   #28
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You cannot possibly store or stockpile every possible item you will need in your life. At some point,you,and everybody else,will need some universal storehouse of "wealth" to use to purchase goods and services.As in,Money. Money in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Its the manipulation of the monetary unit that is evil. The concept that we "need" inflation. The deliberate debasement of our forms of currency. Yeah,there's the "bullets/beans" thing,but what are you going to pay your dentist with,when you get an agonizing toothache? Potatoes? Beans? What if he doesn't want what you have? Said it before,in regards to PMs...they are unit of wealth that takes X amount of effort and time to mine,refine,and mint. They still haven't figured a way around it. If PMs weren't worth anything,why is everyone and their brother waiting at the dock with court orders when a salvor pulls up with treasure?
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Old August 16, 2017, 22:16   #29
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Not saying that PMS have no value, I just think they are an over rated commodity for the crash. If the crash is rough it's going to be difficult to use pms for money. Say today they dumped SS and crashed the dollar, will you be able to use gold and silver as money? Here in America odds are the government will go to a chip in your arm or head to allow you to buy and sell electronically. They will know every purchase you make and every sale and if you use gold or silver to buy and sell they put you in jail for tax evasion.
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Old August 17, 2017, 05:17   #30
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You cannot possibly store or stockpile every possible item you will need in your life. At some point,you,and everybody else,will need some universal storehouse of "wealth" to use to purchase goods and services.As in,Money. Money in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Its the manipulation of the monetary unit that is evil. The concept that we "need" inflation. The deliberate debasement of our forms of currency. Yeah,there's the "bullets/beans" thing,but what are you going to pay your dentist with,when you get an agonizing toothache? Potatoes? Beans? What if he doesn't want what you have? Said it before,in regards to PMs...they are unit of wealth that takes X amount of effort and time to mine,refine,and mint. They still haven't figured a way around it. If PMs weren't worth anything,why is everyone and their brother waiting at the dock with court orders when a salvor pulls up with treasure?
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...
Government gave up backing the currency with a commodity in the 70s and no matter how much people think it is still money it isn't because you can't spend it anywhere at any time. Ya people will take it in trade but it becomes just a barter commodity. I know people will never think the same way I do but it does seem odd to me the reliance of storing wealth in a commodity that you can't eat it or drink it or shoot it in self defence. You will worry about theft constantly and if it gets rough just showing a piece of gold may get you killed.
They didn't so much give it up as switch media. Today they will tell you FRNs are 'real' money, who knows what they will get behind tomorrow, some new version of bitcoin perhaps, or maybe seashells?? The point is the people involved in the economy are the ones who at the end of the day determine what constitutes money, not some government entity. And efforts by government to designate this or that as official media for exchange are always done with the idea of facilitating government theft. RG alludes to this with his comment about currency debasement, I'll only add that the reason deflation never happens is because that would be the same sort of theft governments routinely engage in, except going the other way. And as the Brits might say, that simply wouldn't do now, would it?

As to PMs, sure they take time and effort to produce but they are no more intrinsically a store of wealth than anything else that takes time and effort to produce is. And not all gold and silver takes the same amount of time and effort to produce either, there are huge variations involved in production cost between different mining and milling operations. As I've said before the production cost of silver in particular is exceedingly difficult to even calculate precisely because of the way it typically occurs in ores, and at best it involves the price of the other metals it's found with along with some highly creative accounting. So to suggest that somehow this cost is inherent to the metal itself in some physical way is simply wrong and belies a gross oversimplification of how the metal itself is produced in the real world. What PMs do bring to the table are the facts that they are easily measured and quantized and as such have been traditionally used to represent value by many different peoples in many different time periods. This breeds a certain level of confidence, and this confidence on the part of the people using it is the one attribute that is critical for something to be considered money.

But blind confidence is never a good thing by itself. A person needs to understand why they have it. Me, I load my own ammo and I have confidence in that. Others may see things differently .
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Old August 17, 2017, 07:55   #31
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...

In the mid to late 1970's the law in title 12 was repealed, the motto was changed long before that but up until that time you could still get par value in gold or silver coin minted by us government.


Remember at one time this note was simply a warehouse receipt to claim the value that was stored for you, IE want your gold or silver OK no problem just take the receipt to the warehouse holding your gold or silver and exchange the "NOTE" for it.

I do not think this statement is correct. US citizens (let's not quibble over that term pease) could no longer redeem noted for gold post 1934 IIRC, it was foreign governments that lost that ability in 1971 or so, as Nixon took us off the gold standard to help finance the Vietnam war and refute the French from redeeming their dollars for gold.
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Old August 17, 2017, 08:04   #32
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They didn't so much give it up as switch media. Today they will tell you FRNs are 'real' money, who knows what they will get behind tomorrow, some new version of bitcoin perhaps, or maybe seashells?? T....

As to PMs, sure they take time and effort to produce but they are no more intrinsically a store of wealth than anything else that takes time and effort to produce is. ....
But, this begs the question, why would the member banks of the FED increase their gold and silver holdings at substantial rates, and be reluctant to repatriate gold holdings to foreign nations.
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Old August 17, 2017, 09:02   #33
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But, this begs the question, why would the member banks of the FED increase their gold and silver holdings at substantial rates, and be reluctant to repatriate gold holdings to foreign nations.
Not just the FED, but the central banks of Russia, China and India are accumulating gold at a rapid rate, even though it's a 'barbaric relic'.

Oh that's right. those people are barbarians.

But that is probably just because it's shiny and their warehouses are already full of rice and buckwheat and potatoes, right?
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Old August 17, 2017, 09:18   #34
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Not just the FED, but the central banks of Russia, China and India are accumulating gold at a rapid rate, even though it's a 'barbaric relic'.

Oh that's right. those people are barbarians.

But that is probably just because it's shiny and their warehouses are already full of rice and buckwheat and potatoes, right?
I dunno, maybe to keep the price up. The Hunt brothers did the same with silver. Gold has crashed in value from about $1800 to about $1250. If they can keep it rare then they can keep the price up. Gold for a country is used big time in war because nobody will take paper, all three of those countries are on the verge of war.
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Old August 17, 2017, 10:02   #35
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I dunno, maybe to keep the price up. The Hunt brothers did the same with silver. Gold has crashed in value from about $1800 to about $1250. If they can keep it rare then they can keep the price up. Gold for a country is used big time in war because nobody will take paper, all three of those countries are on the verge of war.
More likely suppressing the price by dumping phony paper contracts every time it rises above a threshold price and then acquiring more at artificially low prices.

The only way metals go much lower is global economic collapse and deep depression.
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Old August 17, 2017, 10:28   #36
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Right for a second I forgot about HJR 192 but the motto still stood as title 12 ss 152 silver still was available as payment.

And with regards to HJR 192 were "men, or women" required to handover their gold in 1933 or just legal fictions IE US citizens ?

And don't blame me as you brought it up.

You man not accept it but there is a difference between a man , woman and a legal fiction.


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I do not think this statement is correct. US citizens (let's not quibble over that term pease) could no longer redeem noted for gold post 1934 IIRC, it was foreign governments that lost that ability in 1971 or so, as Nixon took us off the gold standard to help finance the Vietnam war and refute the French from redeeming their dollars for gold.
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Old August 17, 2017, 11:02   #37
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But, this begs the question, why would the member banks of the FED increase their gold and silver holdings at substantial rates, and be reluctant to repatriate gold holdings to foreign nations.
Well it's likely simple. They don't like the price right now, particularly if they're gonna have to convert assets to transfer it.
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Old August 17, 2017, 11:06   #38
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You man not accept it but there is a difference between a man , woman and a legal fiction.
This one is easy.

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Old August 17, 2017, 11:11   #39
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Well it's likely simple. They don't like the price right now, particularly if they're gonna have to convert assets to transfer it.
Why does gold have any relevance at all with the central banks? They tell us that it is no longer a monetary asset, yet they keep it on their books and in their vaults as a reserve. Why have they not divested themselves completely of this 'commodity' that has no role as money in the current scheme.

I am curious, yellow.
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Old August 17, 2017, 11:22   #40
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Gold in the big banks is for trading between governments that don't trust paper.
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Old August 17, 2017, 11:46   #41
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Gold in the big banks is for trading between governments that don't trust paper.
Why would they not trust paper, they expect all of us to trust their paper. They're not setting a good example for us to follow.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:03   #42
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Why does gold have any relevance at all with the central banks? They tell us that it is no longer a monetary asset, yet they keep it on their books and in their vaults as a reserve. Why have they not divested themselves completely of this 'commodity' that has no role as money in the current scheme.

I am curious, yellow.
Same reason things like real estate, liens on natural resources and government officials are. None of those are 'money' either, at least not according to the current and recent administrations but the central banks still acquire them.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:08   #43
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Why would they not trust paper, they expect all of us to trust their paper. They're not setting a good example for us to follow.
In a war the losers paper is worthless so governments trade in gold. Today your paper is good and if you don't trust it then turn it into a physical item that holds wealth. Good example is a Colt SAA, you can buy one for about the price of an ounce of gold, it's a tool and can be used to defend the family yet it has a collectors value that keeps climbing. Gold can't be trusted to hold its value for common folks, how much did you lose when it went from $1800 to $1250?

Colts have been going up.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:16   #44
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In a war the losers paper is worthless so governments trade in gold. Today your paper is good and if you don't trust it then turn it into a physical item that holds wealth. Good example is a Colt SAA, you can buy one for about the price of an ounce of gold, it's a tool and can be used to defend the family yet it has a collectors value that keeps climbing. Gold can't be trusted to hold its value for common folks, how much did you lose when it went from $1800 to $1250?

Colts have been going up.
That SAA value is based upon collectibility, if there is a collapse a flock 17 would be worth much more. No one in their right mind would carry a single action revolver for self defense
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:19   #45
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In a war the losers paper is worthless so governments trade in gold. Today your paper is good and if you don't trust it then turn it into a physical item that holds wealth. Good example is a Colt SAA, you can buy one for about the price of an ounce of gold, it's a tool and can be used to defend the family yet it has a collectors value that keeps climbing. Gold can't be trusted to hold its value for common folks, how much did you lose when it went from $1800 to $1250?

Colts have been going up.
If the talk turns away from hedge and into investment lets talk machine tools. Particularly lathes and mills, but any good solid made-to-last tool is gonna count. Not to mention the skills to put it to work. Right now good used ones can be had for near-scrap prices. But if the balloon goes up and we quit dragging stuff over from china they're going to be in really high demand. And in a real no-shitter they will probably be unobtainium for most people while folks will be trying to fill their tanks and buy groceries with krugerrands.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:29   #46
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If the talk turns away from hedge and into investment lets talk machine tools. Particularly lathes and mills, but any good solid made-to-last tool is gonna count. Not to mention the skills to put it to work. Right now good used ones can be had for near-scrap prices. But if the balloon goes up and we quit dragging stuff over from china they're going to be in really high demand. And in a real no-shitter they will probably be unobtainium for most people while folks will be trying to fill their tanks and buy groceries with krugerrands.
No doubt power tools will have a value if you have power, lathes and mills need power so depending how far along the crash is power might be hard to get. I tend to believe in portable wealth that has other uses. Something that has power and doesn't need electricity. A nice 45 Colt has power No I can't trade it into a bank for money and I can't buy gas with it like you can gold but it will keep me alive.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:34   #47
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No doubt power tools will have a value if you have power, lathes and mills need power so depending how far along the crash is power might be hard to get. I tend to believe in portable wealth that has other uses. Something that has power and doesn't need electricity. A nice 45 Colt has power No I can't trade it into a bank for money and I can't buy gas with it like you can gold but it will keep me alive.
Who says you can't buy gas with it? And Colt .45s have even been known to loosen the grip of the occasional banker from time to time .

Personally I like firearms too, they're just tools of a not-too-different sort. But if I were speculating I'd say most folks are oversupplied with guns for the size of their ammo stash. This argues well for things like ammo.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:37   #48
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Social Security is broke, Illinois is broke, the U.S. is broke, actually the whole world is broke, and yet it just keeps on keepin' on. A confusing situation.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:43   #49
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Social Security is broke, Illinois is broke, the U.S. is broke, actually the whole world is broke, and yet it just keeps on keepin' on. A confusing situation.
It will continue chugging along as long as the hopium keeps flowing. Of course all this current unrest is indicative of the quickly worsening economic malaise.
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Old August 17, 2017, 12:48   #50
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Social Security is broke, Illinois is broke, the U.S. is broke, actually the whole world is broke, and yet it just keeps on keepin' on. A confusing situation.
As I said above, not sure why we're even talking about this when the FedRes itself is broke. But as to why it keeps chugging along it's as RJ pointed out, because the ones who went broke long ago are the ones who get to print the money and set the interest rates.

It really ain't confusing once you dispense with the BS, the thing that keeps it chugging, the fuel that powers it if you will is the 'full faith and confidence' of the people who rely on it.

Note that this is not, repeat not the 'full faith and confidence of the US Government', the two are on occasion very different things.
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