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Old December 07, 2012, 11:49   #101
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The Forbes list from say ten years ago, is available on the Forbes website.
It is eyeopening to see how far the rich have fallen in this economy.

Roger Penske used to be a billionaire--4 or 6 billion and is now a piker at 750 million. Waltons lost quite a bit too.
No, it just means they have hidden more of it from the government.
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Old December 07, 2012, 20:05   #102
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I still think that the big corporations have a lot of pull in what happens politically. Remember that the AHA was signed into law by members of both parties. I'm sure anyone that stand to gain from it put in a bunch of lobbying to get it approved. Walmart was probably one of them on the sidelines. They have a lot to gain from it. And Dr., you don't charge enough If that is all you bill, you sure are helping make medical costs a little more affordable.
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Old December 07, 2012, 20:23   #103
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And Dr., you don't charge enough If that is all you bill, you sure are helping make medical costs a little more affordable.
That's cool of you to compliment him, but I assume, as is the case with my wife who is a doc, they are only "allowed" to charge a certain amount, or at least bill for a certain amount.

It makes it tough when you're told how much you can charge, and your costs go up. It also depends on the doc's relationship with the hospital (subcontractor, employee, etc.)
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Old December 08, 2012, 20:45   #104
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I still think that the big corporations have a lot of pull in what happens politically. Remember that the AHA was signed into law by members of both parties. I'm sure anyone that stand to gain from it put in a bunch of lobbying to get it approved. Walmart was probably one of them on the sidelines. They have a lot to gain from it. And Dr., you don't charge enough If that is all you bill, you sure are helping make medical costs a little more affordable.
The rate is set by Medicare (de facto)- that is what I have been trying to explain. It's a consultation, similar to a first office visit. No surgery and usually takes an hour with the parents or less, plus time with colleagues and doing paperwork.

I only get the piece that my hospital lets me keep, <20%. The rest goes for "administrative costs" aka to hire more 36 hr per week nurses with full benefits and smoke breaks every hour.
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Old December 09, 2012, 06:01   #105
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In contrast, ambulances bill $1000 for a trip in which they flip on the siren, check your vitals and maybe run some IV fluids. Those are the same trips that many "astute" patients abuse simply because they don't have a ride to the hospital or they want to jump ahead of the ER line.
Yep, and after 10 years in the business I was making $12.10/hr.

With the Oregon Health Plan the company was required accept assignment from OHP and they paid around $80 for a ride that was considered "medically necessary". If they deemed that it wasn't necessary they wouldn't pay, the company was not allowed to bill the balance. That may have changed in recent years. I got out of the business a few years back. Fixing printing presses is a much better gig, MUCH better pay and no one shooting at me, don't have to intubate someone upside down in a ditch in the freezing cold either
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Old December 09, 2012, 06:40   #106
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I only get the piece that my hospital lets me keep, <20%. The rest goes for "administrative costs" aka to hire more 36 hr per week nurses with full benefits and smoke breaks every hour.
You know,I've done more than a bit of mechanical and electrical work at hospitals,and it never ceases to amaze me how many people in the health care industry still smoke. I boggles my mind to think they'd still smoke after having to deal with the effects of smoking first hand.Some of the hospitals have gone to the point of not allowing it on the grounds,and I'm seeing the employees out in no-man's-land,a hundred feet or more from the building,standing in the cold...smoking..
I just don't understand it.
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:29   #107
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I know at least 3 nurses that smoke. They should cut their health care benifits as it causes everyone elses to go up. High risk population. Had the same problem when I worked for an engineering dept for a municipality in NC. Group family rate was more than what an individual could get the same coverage for if you were a non smoker. It was more than double for the group rate as they considered the workforce there as "high risk".
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Old December 09, 2012, 14:08   #108
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I know at least 3 nurses that smoke. They should cut their health care benifits as it causes everyone elses to go up. High risk population. Had the same problem when I worked for an engineering dept for a municipality in NC. Group family rate was more than what an individual could get the same coverage for if you were a non smoker. It was more than double for the group rate as they considered the workforce there as "high risk".
Excellent points. Now can someone explain the real reason why we can't have drug testing before receiving welfare bennies, when we must divulge whether we smoke or not in order to receive reduced insurance rate bennies. Not exactly apples and apples, but we are more or less financing the vices of others one way or another.

BTW, I have never used tobacco in any way, but I do like Maker's Mark.
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Old December 09, 2012, 21:43   #109
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Why not cut their benefits if they eat fast food and drink alcohol while your at it?
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Old December 09, 2012, 21:50   #110
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Why not cut their benefits if they eat fast food and drink alcohol while your at it?
Nice one!!
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Old December 09, 2012, 22:50   #111
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Why not cut their benefits if they eat fast food and drink alcohol while your at it?
Good idea dirt. Both are luxuries that those that watch their finances have to do. Where else do you suggest we cut?

SNAP is not supposed to be used for either of those purposes, as I would suppose the intent of the designers of the SNAP was to help feed the family, not assist it with thelife of largess.
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Old December 10, 2012, 18:57   #112
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Ok then they should tell us who we can marry, where to live, how much money to make, what to look like and what god to pray to next.
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Old December 10, 2012, 21:25   #113
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Good idea dirt. Both are luxuries that those that watch their finances have to do. Where else do you suggest we cut?

SNAP is not supposed to be used for either of those purposes, as I would suppose the intent of the designers of the SNAP was to help feed the family, not assist it with thelife of largess.
So employers and the insurance companies they contract with should be able to tell the employees how and what they may eat, drink, and what else?
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Old December 11, 2012, 09:59   #114
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Maybe they should focus on being healthy instead of healthcare. Give discounts to those who live a healthy lifestyle and get regular physicals and exams. You know the old saying, "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
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Old December 11, 2012, 14:06   #115
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Maybe they should focus on being healthy instead of healthcare. Give discounts to those who live a healthy lifestyle and get regular physicals and exams. You know the old saying, "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
My employer does that.
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Old December 11, 2012, 14:53   #116
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So employers and the insurance companies they contract with should be able to tell the employees how and what they may eat, drink, and what else?
What a dick jason. Can you read. Said nothing about the employers or insurance companies telling who what they may eat drink or what else. We are suggesting better control over how the FSA waste OUR money.
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Old December 11, 2012, 18:52   #117
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Yep, and after 10 years in the business I was making $12.10/hr.

With the Oregon Health Plan the company was required accept assignment from OHP and they paid around $80 for a ride that was considered "medically necessary". If they deemed that it wasn't necessary they wouldn't pay, the company was not allowed to bill the balance. That may have changed in recent years. I got out of the business a few years back. Fixing printing presses is a much better gig, MUCH better pay and no one shooting at me, don't have to intubate someone upside down in a ditch in the freezing cold either
Yeah I'm not saying the paramedic are the crooks at all! The general theme is that pay scales are all thrown out of proportion and much of the fee is burned up in "administrative costs"
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Old December 11, 2012, 18:53   #118
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You know,I've done more than a bit of mechanical and electrical work at hospitals,and it never ceases to amaze me how many people in the health care industry still smoke. I boggles my mind to think they'd still smoke after having to deal with the effects of smoking first hand.Some of the hospitals have gone to the point of not allowing it on the grounds,and I'm seeing the employees out in no-man's-land,a hundred feet or more from the building,standing in the cold...smoking..
I just don't understand it.
That's the best part for us... we don't allow it on the grounds but the nurses to it anyway. Remember, they're unionized. I have yet to see one fired for incompetence.
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Old December 11, 2012, 18:55   #119
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I know at least 3 nurses that smoke. They should cut their health care benifits as it causes everyone elses to go up. High risk population. Had the same problem when I worked for an engineering dept for a municipality in NC. Group family rate was more than what an individual could get the same coverage for if you were a non smoker. It was more than double for the group rate as they considered the workforce there as "high risk".
yes, but then people who aren't health bitch about it. if you are totally healthy you are simply supporting the others.

this is similar to insurance plans that don't offer separate rates for men and women <40, despite the obvious difference in obstetric fees. the men pay half of the obstetric fees.
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Old December 11, 2012, 18:58   #120
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Why not cut their benefits if they eat fast food and drink alcohol while your at it?
How about we abolish stupid group plans and give people that money back into their paycheck? Then they buy the insurance they think they need. If they're healthy and young, they will be well covered by a catastrophic plan. If not, they can upgrade.

Of course, that would actually make people think about spending the money and provide some negative feedback for unhealthy behaviors... oh the horror!

There is a reason why our country, the richest with the best doctors and medical technology in the world, has poorer outcomes and far more spending per capita. Think you guys can figger that one out? I have faith in you.
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:01   #121
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Ok then they should tell us who we can marry, where to live, how much money to make, what to look like and what god to pray to next.
You're all about freedom huh?

Is that why you insist that healthy people that forego all the fun stuff in live should pay for those who are enjoying them without paying extra? Is that why you are, in effect, suggesting that they have the obligation to cover obese smoking diabetics who refuse to check their blood sugar, then demand free vascular surgery and lifetime foot care for their gangrenous feet?

Now I get it. Thanks for helping me figure out what freedom and honor are all about.
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:03   #122
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Maybe they should focus on being healthy instead of healthcare. Give discounts to those who live a healthy lifestyle and get regular physicals and exams. You know the old saying, "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
Might be worthwhile. Psychological research suggests that reinforcement is superior to punishment... but it just seems more "right" to make people pull out their wallets if they wish to burden the system.

Better to avoid all this complexity- incredibly prone to bureaucratic price fixing- and let free markets work. A good start would be letting people select insurance plans across state lines.
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:17   #123
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What a dick jason. Can you read. Said nothing about the employers or insurance companies telling who what they may eat drink or what else. We are suggesting better control over how the FSA waste OUR money.
I can read quite well. The topic was 3 nurses smoking and getting their health care benefits cut for doing so which then progressed to cutting health care benefits for eating fast food & drinking. Their being nurses would tend to indicate they are employed & quite likely they have health insurance as a perk for their job so how does FSA factor in to that?
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:18   #124
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Might be worthwhile. Psychological research suggests that reinforcement is superior to punishment... but it just seems more "right" to make people pull out their wallets if they wish to burden the system.

Better to avoid all this complexity- incredibly prone to bureaucratic price fixing- and let free markets work. A good start would be letting people select insurance plans across state lines.
Considering the line on what is good versus what is bad tends to change down through the years, who should pay the piper when today's healthy lifestyle choice is proven to be bad tomorrow?
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:45   #125
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This thread is about labor unrest?

I got your labor unrest, right here.....

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...d-By-Union-Mob

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...-People-Inside
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Old December 12, 2012, 09:07   #126
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By the way, when I think of unions it is in the private sector and I also believe that if they price their labor too high they will price themselves out of the market.
Unless of course they can maintain a closed shop in which case there is no scab market to worry about.

Why do you think they are bustin' heads on the boob tube yesterday. That right to work thing ain't 'Murican!!!!!
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Old December 12, 2012, 10:04   #127
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That's the best part for us... we don't allow it on the grounds but the nurses to it anyway. Remember, they're unionized. I have yet to see one fired for incompetence.
Just sounds like the hospital manager not enforcing their policies. There is a written contract on what can be done and a lot of blame gets thrown at unions, but most times I have seen management doesn't even know or follow their own policies they have created in the work place. The contract is there. The policies SHOULD be there. Just hold people accountable and follow the law and company policy.
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Old December 12, 2012, 11:00   #128
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Michigan just went right to work take that labor unions - Kapalla right in the kisser
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Old December 12, 2012, 12:37   #129
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Michigan just went right to work take that labor unions - Kapalla right in the kisser
Workingman making less $. SOUNDS WONDERFUL
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Old December 12, 2012, 13:43   #130
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Considering the line on what is good versus what is bad tends to change down through the years, who should pay the piper when today's healthy lifestyle choice is proven to be bad tomorrow?
Of course we learn things- that is no reason to take a fatalistic attitude about it.

We know that smoking is the single worst thing that you can do to ruin your health- why not start there? If you smoke, you pay X percent more, or you must submit a check to pay the difference from your employer's group rate. Simple. We kind of do this, but not widely and not where the employee has to actually write a check- very easy to ignore that your paycheck is slightly less, psychologically harder to ignore whipping out that checkbook.
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Old December 12, 2012, 13:46   #131
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Workingman making less $. SOUNDS WONDERFUL
Can you please explain how right to work laws translate to lower pay for all unions?

Not theoretical concerns laid out by news programs- where is the evidence? Show me statistics on the number of workers who sustained wage reductions in Wisconsin after their law passed. Or any of the other 23 states.
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Old December 12, 2012, 14:53   #132
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I can read quite well. The topic was 3 nurses smoking and getting their health care benefits cut for doing so which then progressed to cutting health care benefits for eating fast food & drinking. Their being nurses would tend to indicate they are employed & quite likely they have health insurance as a perk for their job so how does FSA factor in to that?
I made the leap in this post, (copied for you below) perhaps you didn't catch it. I said it wasn't quite apples and apples, but basically it's some paying for others indisctetinary lifestyle.

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I know at least 3 nurses that smoke. They should cut their health care benifits as it causes everyone elses to go up. High risk population. Had the same problem when I worked for an engineering dept for a municipality in NC. Group family rate was more than what an individual could get the same coverage for if you were a non smoker. It was more than double for the group rate as they considered the workforce there as "high risk".

Excellent points. Now can someone explain the real reason why we can't have drug testing before receiving welfare bennies, when we must divulge whether we smoke or not in order to receive reduced insurance rate bennies. Not exactly apples and apples, but we are more or less financing the vices of others one way or another.
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Old December 12, 2012, 17:55   #133
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Of course we learn things- that is no reason to take a fatalistic attitude about it.

We know that smoking is the single worst thing that you can do to ruin your health- why not start there? If you smoke, you pay X percent more, or you must submit a check to pay the difference from your employer's group rate. Simple. We kind of do this, but not widely and not where the employee has to actually write a check- very easy to ignore that your paycheck is slightly less, psychologically harder to ignore whipping out that checkbook.

So if they don't die from lung cancer someday, do their heirs get a dividend check?
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Old December 12, 2012, 17:59   #134
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I made the leap in this post, (copied for you below) perhaps you didn't catch it. I said it wasn't quite apples and apples, but basically it's some paying for others indisctetinary lifestyle.

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I know at least 3 nurses that smoke. They should cut their health care benifits as it causes everyone elses to go up. High risk population. Had the same problem when I worked for an engineering dept for a municipality in NC. Group family rate was more than what an individual could get the same coverage for if you were a non smoker. It was more than double for the group rate as they considered the workforce there as "high risk".

Excellent points. Now can someone explain the real reason why we can't have drug testing before receiving welfare bennies, when we must divulge whether we smoke or not in order to receive reduced insurance rate bennies. Not exactly apples and apples, but we are more or less financing the vices of others one way or another.

Why have welfare benefits? A little less broke is still broke.

Just for shit and giggles though, do you think you would ever get the FAL masses on board with having those receiving corporate or foreign welfare payments to piss in a cup for all to see?
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:53   #135
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Meat gazer alert!!!
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