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Old February 20, 2018, 13:56   #1
JonathanW
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PA LUTY

Being a British citizen in the US, PA Luty is a huge hero to me. He stood his ground in the face of tyranny when all others submitted. He illegally built a gun in England and published a book on how to make it from parts at the hardware store as a form of protest. He was jailed for several years and later passed away in 2011.

I’d like to make a NON-working/NON-firearm(No Firing pin, fake barrel, etc) replica of what he published in his book to make a nice display next to his book.

To my knowledge this is legal, and as long as it could not be converted to fire bullets it would have the same rules as a dummy receiver/fake guns . Does anyone disagree? Or know the legality of such a build?

My second question is that I have seen a lot of legal Full auto blank guns chambered only in blank calibers classified as non-firearms, if someone made a blank firing Luty SMG chambered only in the blank round, would that be legal? Would ATF need to approve of it first to confirm it was a non firearm ?

Should I submit the questions to ATF? What format should I use?

Just trying to understand the law better, pretty confusing stuff and have no intention of breaking any NFA rules
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Old February 22, 2018, 16:06   #2
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First... not a lawyer, but well informed. What you do with the info is up to you.

If you're a citizen it's perfectly legal to build a fully functioning weapon, so long as you're not in a communist state that forbids such. There is a huge business in selling receivers and pistol frames that the customer completes themselves. The catch with them is you cannot sell them. At that point you become a manufacturer and without a manufacturer's license you are then doing something illegal.

You can even build your own silencers, you just have to apply for a tax stamp first and create a serial number that you then apply to your new creation, once you have stamp in hand.

If what you build just LOOKS like a gun then you should be fine. If that was not the case a LOT of toys would be considered firearms. So long as no work has been done to create a firing system (other than some form of non-cartridge firearm like a black powder muzzle loader) then you haven't built a gun. You could even buy one of the incomplete AR lowers and put everything on it, just once you start machining out the fire control area you've moved from "paper weight" to "firearm." Build it so there is no way to ignite a metallic cartridge and it shouldn't be a firearm.
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Old February 22, 2018, 16:16   #3
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Incorrect advice

If you are going to post advice please post correct information. It is prefactly legal to sell a home built firearm. Next it does not have to have a serial number on it for ANY reason. The ATF recommends one but does not require it.
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Old February 22, 2018, 19:56   #4
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I believe the guy was a Brit and it all happened on the other side of the pond.
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Old February 22, 2018, 20:02   #5
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More about him here:

http://thehomegunsmith.com/
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Old February 22, 2018, 22:23   #6
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More about him here:

http://thehomegunsmith.com/
I always wanted the plans for the Caveman Air Gun. Looks like they won’t load from the site.
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Last edited by 2barearms; February 22, 2018 at 22:44.
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Old February 22, 2018, 23:11   #7
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I always wanted the plans for the Caveman Air Gun. Looks like they won’t load from the site.
the Caselman plans download fine for me

there are other mirrors of them online but be aware these plans have many errors. There was a fellow selling remastered plans a few years ago that are correct on demensions.
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Old February 23, 2018, 21:37   #8
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the Caselman plans download fine for me

there are other mirrors of them online but be aware these plans have many errors. There was a fellow selling remastered plans a few years ago that are correct on demensions.
I got them on another site. They just got stuck and wouldn’t finish. A 30 Caliber
Semi air rifle would be a great thing. They can be suppressed also.
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Old February 24, 2018, 12:39   #9
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What I see as the biggest issue, he used BSP pattern pipe and fittings to build it. BSP pipe is virtually impossible to obtain in the US.

If you don't care about making an exact replica, I'm sure you could improvise a similar version with common US made NPT pipe.

Other issue with building an exact copy is the fact it is a blow back, open bolt operation. A non firing one shouldn't be an issue, but a firing one will be a no-no.
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Old February 27, 2018, 19:24   #10
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What I see as the biggest issue, he used BSP pattern pipe and fittings to build it. BSP pipe is virtually impossible to obtain in the US.

If you don't care about making an exact replica, I'm sure you could improvise a similar version with common US made NPT pipe.

Other issue with building an exact copy is the fact it is a blow back, open bolt operation. A non firing one shouldn't be an issue, but a firing one will be a no-no.
Are full auto air rifles illegal?
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Old February 27, 2018, 19:31   #11
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Are full auto air rifles illegal?
I don't think so. pretty standard stuff at the local fairs every summer.
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Old February 28, 2018, 11:35   #12
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NEW Question


Given recent events, instead I have been thinking about adding to his book series with a book on how to make a 556 or subsonic 300 Blackout “assault “ rifle from scratch similar to how he does in his book. It Absolutely would require more tools than his SMG but may be possible as a DIY project but for educational purposes only. I was thinking of working with a 07 manufacturer (as to make it full-auto to keep it very simple) or make a closed bolt semi-auto version of the rifle on my own and keep within the law as a private citizen.

Would ITAR Rules apply to the book ?
Would any modern publishers be willing to publish anything controversial like this?
Anyone with experience with self publishing?
Where can I ask questions related to ITAR
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Old February 28, 2018, 20:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanW View Post
NEW Question


Given recent events, instead I have been thinking about adding to his book series with a book on how to make a 556 or subsonic 300 Blackout “assault “ rifle from scratch similar to how he does in his book. It Absolutely would require more tools than his SMG but may be possible as a DIY project but for educational purposes only. I was thinking of working with a 07 manufacturer (as to make it full-auto to keep it very simple) or make a closed bolt semi-auto version of the rifle on my own and keep within the law as a private citizen.

Would ITAR Rules apply to the book ?
Would any modern publishers be willing to publish anything controversial like this?
Anyone with experience with self publishing?
Where can I ask questions related to ITAR
Why do you cut and paste the same questions on the AK Files and on here? How many times do you need to ask the questions?
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Old February 28, 2018, 21:51   #14
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Why do you cut and paste the same questions on the AK Files and on here? How many times do you need to ask the questions?
I wasn’t aware there was a problem getting different people’s opinion on the matter

Given each forum offers different levels of experience on the topic, it couldn’t possibly hurt to ask each separate group for their opinions to get the best answers
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Old March 01, 2018, 08:49   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanW View Post
NEW Question


Given recent events, instead I have been thinking about adding to his book series with a book on how to make a 556 or subsonic 300 Blackout “assault “ rifle from scratch similar to how he does in his book. It Absolutely would require more tools than his SMG but may be possible as a DIY project but for educational purposes only. I was thinking of working with a 07 manufacturer (as to make it full-auto to keep it very simple) or make a closed bolt semi-auto version of the rifle on my own and keep within the law as a private citizen.

Would ITAR Rules apply to the book ?
Would any modern publishers be willing to publish anything controversial like this?
Anyone with experience with self publishing?
Where can I ask questions related to ITAR

Even if it looks like something else as long as it doesn’t use powder or an explosive force to propel the projectile it’s not a firearm no matter how many
‘Pellets’ it fires. Air gun tolerances are a lot tighter than firearms and trying
to make magazines that resemble AR mags for instance is a challenge at best.
30 Caliber is a better choice as the is more metal surface to work with. Bullets
are no cylindrical like pellets also. If you notice the mag is some what expedient
and straight. The Koreans have been making big bore air guns for some time
now.

What interested me more than anything was how the chamber and the action were constructed. A bolt action or semi auto would be preferable to this full auto
thing he built. It just needs the design tweaked a little. If you look at any drawings of air guns they are exceedingly complex.
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Old April 23, 2018, 19:28   #16
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I'm really wanting to build one of these. The newest airgun enhancement
is using nitrogen or helium. Helium adds about a 35% boost.
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Old April 23, 2018, 19:58   #17
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http://www.extremebigboreairrifles.com/

This is the stuff!
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Old April 25, 2018, 19:31   #18
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You can actually see P.A. Luty's guns here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhGCRIQnCA as reviewed by Ian McCollum.
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Old April 26, 2018, 18:17   #19
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Even if it looks like something else as long as it doesn’t use powder or an explosive force to propel the projectile it’s not a firearm no matter how many
.
Unless you live in newjerkistan... it would be patently illegal in that prog repooblik.
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