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Old May 13, 2017, 18:57   #1
croftonaviation
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Taurus 85 kaboom! Updated with resolution

A customer returned this yesterday. Bought new around Christmas time. It is a standard weight Taurus 85, 38 special. The guy says he only shoots factory ammo. Given he is not a gun guy, and the fact I sell him a bunch I am inclined to believe him. They did not recover all of the cylinder pieces, just the three shown. The three account for around 55% of the cylinder. It is split evenly down each chamber. There was no visible bulging in the barrel that I could see. One bystander was injured by the cylinder, requiring stitches to the abdomen. The firearm has been returned to Taurus. It was Winchester ammo,I have the one round they picked up at work. I am unsure of what shot they wee on when this happened. Curious to see what Taurus says. I did laugh a little when they said to pack it well as they would not fix cosmetic damage.


UPDATE 6/20/17
I'll be damed if a box didn't show up Monday at work from Taurus. They sent the guy a used replacment of the same model, the replacment is probably around 96% finish. Not bad for blowing up your gun with crap ammo. I have to say I am still not a huge Taurus fan, but their customer service rocks.


The picture.

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Old May 13, 2017, 19:57   #2
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Ouch...
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Old May 13, 2017, 20:56   #3
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Ouch...
About sums it up...

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Old May 13, 2017, 21:27   #4
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My LGS sells some ammo that is actually re-manufactured ammo, not factory ammo. After having some issues with extraction, squib loads, and obvious other QC items, the owner will not let this ammo be used in our range rental guns. Unfortunately I cannot post the name for liability reasons. Just be aware that the inexpensive ammo may be reman and not new.

Posted that because not everyone knows the difference between remanufactured and new ammo. Much of the reman stuff brass comes in as range pickups with no pedigree other than the head stamp.
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Old May 13, 2017, 22:07   #5
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My LGS sells some ammo that is actually re-manufactured ammo, not factory ammo. After having some issues with extraction, squib loads, and obvious other QC items, the owner will not let this ammo be used in our range rental guns. Unfortunately I cannot post the name for liability reasons. Just be aware that the inexpensive ammo may be reman and not new.

Posted that because not everyone knows the difference between remanufactured and new ammo. Much of the reman stuff brass comes in as range pickups with no pedigree other than the head stamp.
Exactly...

And, if I had to guess at the moment (which I don't, of course, but I'm going to anyway), I'd guess that it was the ammo here and that the Winchester headstamp means nothing in terms of the kaboom...

Just sayin'...

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Old May 13, 2017, 22:50   #6
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no taurus for me.
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Old May 14, 2017, 06:49   #7
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Pretty sure the ammo is where it is at as well. The fact that English is the guys second language (poorly at that) didn't make getting any facts any easier. I have one round at work, but I'm not going to touch it until Taurus says they don't need it.
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Old May 14, 2017, 08:04   #8
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Is it me,or do those cylinder walls look thin as runny shit? And for all of them to split?
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Old May 14, 2017, 10:36   #9
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Why do people buy cheap guns? Rugers and Smiths aren't THAT expensive and there's always used if you just can't afford anything else. I wouldn't put cheap tires or brake pads on my car and I wouldn't trust my hand with a cheap gun that might blow up in it.
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Old May 14, 2017, 21:26   #10
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Is it me,or do those cylinder walls look thin as runny shit? And for all of them to split?
I'm guessing when one cylinder blew it set off the other rounds and they blew as well.
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Old May 14, 2017, 22:10   #11
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Oh man... please keep us posted on what Taurus says... my edc is a .45 colt Taurus snub nose (450SS).. I haven't had a single issue with it, but she might be up on gunbroker after seeing this..
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Old May 14, 2017, 22:48   #12
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Oh man... please keep us posted on what Taurus says... my edc is a .45 colt Taurus snub nose (450SS).. I haven't had a single issue with it, but she might be up on gunbroker after seeing this..
While I'm not much of a wheel gun lover, I'd just keep in mind that the Taurus M85 has been in production for a long time and has a pretty good reputation.

Might want to hang on to yours at least until we know some more of the story...

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Old May 14, 2017, 22:54   #13
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While I'm not much of a wheel gun lover, I'd just keep in mind that the Taurus M85 has been in production for a long time and has a pretty good reputation.
Well, at least for a Taurus...

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Old May 14, 2017, 23:09   #14
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Oh man... please keep us posted on what Taurus says... my edc is a .45 colt Taurus snub nose (450SS).. I haven't had a single issue with it, but she might be up on gunbroker after seeing this..
I don't think I would run out and sell it over this. I sell a lot of Taurus products and this is the only big issue I have seen. Little stuff I get, and there customer service has been very good (with the exception of the lawsuit guns). And unlike another company they actually answer the phone. I had a guy bring a diamond back pistol back that kept going full auto, It took a week of trying 2-3 times a day to get them to answer the phone. I will post up when we hear back from them.
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Old May 15, 2017, 03:53   #15
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I have old CH85 in stainless and it has been shot quite a bit over the years without any problems. I've owned and still do own other Taurus handguns with the same results. I didn't buy them because they were cheap, I bought them because they had features that I wanted.

To blindly blame Taurus on this failure is just showing bias. But to each, his own.
It looks like an ammo problem to me as well.
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Old May 15, 2017, 08:14   #16
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Taurus makes a budget priced product. Their quality control is spotty and the guns are not built for long term durability, like the Smith & Wesson.

You get what you pay for. I have had tons of Taurus and Rossi items in my shop for repair. I have seen an 85 marked as .38spl. that had a cylinder chambered for .357 magnum Etc., Etc..

Generally speaking, these guns are junk that will not hold up to serious use, but they don't normally kaboom. They just start binding and eventually cease to function.

Like someone posted, I'm going with lgs reloads as the culprit. Lots of rug-head reloads sold in stores near me that kaboom guns pretty regular.

Some folks truly don't know any better than to buy reloaded gun store crap. Others are just cheap, hard-headed bastards that will defend their skin flint ways with their dying breath.
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Old May 15, 2017, 12:58   #17
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I bought some Tennessee Cartridge re manufactured .38spcl a year or so ago. Never shot just added it to collection .

Funny as about 15 years ago I refused to buy anyone's reloads from gun shows. But being a "company " rather then Billy in the Barn I said ahhhh.... how bad can a .38spcl go in my s&w......???
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Old May 15, 2017, 14:19   #18
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Got an 85 that rides near daily in an ankle holster, still going to carry it daily.

Seems like any hand gun will blow up from time to time, smiths, Sigs, etc.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...5350&FORM=VIRE


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...3C&FORM=VRDGAR


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...4E&FORM=VRDGAR
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Old May 15, 2017, 19:49   #19
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True, any firearm can kaboom with out of spec ammo. Mostly though, it's the loose nut behind the butt plate that causes mischief and malfunctions with guns.

I can't wrap my head around why someone would carry on of these Taurus products for defense if they didn't have to.

I just checked my book and I had four come in in the last 6 weeks:

-Taurus mod 58, broken tensioning pin on the hand. Cylinder won't index unless the gun is pointed straight down.

-Rossi "Leopard", same as above.

-Taurus mod. 85c. Cyl. binds on opening/closing, cyl. often skips, occasional failure to fire. On this gun, the hammer has peened the frame around the firing pin bore (it has a frame mounted firing pin w/spring).

The peening of the frame causes the firing pin and spring to bind in the bore resulting in the pin getting stuck poking through the recoil shield. That keeps it from loading and turning properly, or it sticks in a mid position and fails to fire (it's stuck below the transfer bar).

The last is a Taurus mod. 58, .38spl. the owner says it binds every other cylinder full or so. I haven't looked at it yet except to notice that the barrel is 0.140" on one side of the muzzle and 0.123 on the other- hole not even close to center.

It's off 0.017" at the breech as well. That's not a great thing for starting the boolitz off straight, and it won't be long before the forcing cone (more like a forcing suggestion than a cone) cracks.

I'm NOT calling you cheap- but I do suggest you get some steel leader and a #6 shark hook and pitch your Taurus over the side. Or maybe give it to a Hillary supporter at Synagogue.

At the least, you should probably have it inspected to see if it is showing signs of preparing to take a dump.
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Old May 15, 2017, 20:11   #20
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True, any firearm can kaboom with out of spec ammo. Mostly though, it's the loose nut behind the butt plate that causes mischief and malfunctions with guns.

I can't wrap my head around why someone would carry on of these Taurus products for defense if they didn't have to.

I just checked my book and I had four come in in the last 6 weeks:

-Taurus mod 58, broken tensioning pin on the hand. Cylinder won't index unless the gun is pointed straight down.

-Rossi "Leopard", same as above.

-Taurus mod. 85c. Cyl. binds on opening/closing, cyl. often skips, occasional failure to fire. On this gun, the hammer has peened the frame around the firing pin bore (it has a frame mounted firing pin w/spring).

The peening of the frame causes the firing pin and spring to bind in the bore resulting in the pin getting stuck poking through the recoil shield. That keeps it from loading and turning properly, or it sticks in a mid position and fails to fire (it's stuck below the transfer bar).

The last is a Taurus mod. 58, .38spl. the owner says it binds every other cylinder full or so. I haven't looked at it yet except to notice that the barrel is 0.140" on one side of the muzzle and 0.123 on the other- hole not even close to center.

It's off 0.017" at the breech as well. That's not a great thing for starting the boolitz off straight, and it won't be long before the forcing cone (more like a forcing suggestion than a cone) cracks.

I'm NOT calling you cheap- but I do suggest you get some steel leader and a #6 shark hook and pitch your Taurus over the side. Or maybe give it to a Hillary supporter at Synagogue.

At the least, you should probably have it inspected to see if it is showing signs of preparing to take a dump.


I've got a few of them, one a four inch 357Mag, and the little 85.
Can't remember how many people have learned revolvers on the four incher, and never a lick of trouble out of it, nor the little 85.
I just use what works.
Got about everything here somewhere, mostly Smiths for revolvers except for these two and a stainless Model 450 in 45LC.
I've had more problems with my Smiths than anything else.
Took the factory two trips to correct issues with a Smith 25-5, which is a great pistol, just this one had some issues.
Got several Colt 1911's, couple of Gold Cups, but normally carry a Springfield Armory loaded model when I carry a 1911, which is not that often anymore, not since the stable filled up Glocks.

A lot of people began collecting firearms when they were also raising families, not too much money for firearms, so they started with stuff they could afford at the time.
As they gathered up more funds, more weapons, things became more pricey, nothing to do with cheap.
What was it the man once said, its normally not the equipment, but the fellow using it.
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Old May 15, 2017, 23:00   #21
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Is it me,or do those cylinder walls look thin as runny shit? And for all of them to split?
I was confused by this too. I've never seen an example where every chamber split like that (but I'm no expert on wheel gun kabooms so that doesn't mean much). Has anyone else ever seen this?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that one chamber failed and the jet of hot gas detonated the neighboring cylinder, which then detonated its neighbor. I would have assumed wheel guns were designed so this would not happen.

Shouldn't each chamber be strong enough to contain a detonating round? Shouldn't the chamber be designed so that if it does rupture it doesn't inject gas into its neighbor? And even if it did, shouldn't the neighboring case be able to withstand the jet?

I'd love some schoolin' on this subject
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Old May 16, 2017, 00:04   #22
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(Snip)

I'm NOT calling you cheap- but I do suggest you get some steel leader and a #6 shark hook and pitch your Taurus over the side. Or maybe give it to a Hillary supporter at Synagogue.
(snip)

Missed this above on the first read.

It would be far easier for me to locate a Hillery Supporter at any of the local Christian churches here on Sunday morning, than at my Synagogue, in that my Synagogue is in Tucson, about 80 miles from the house.

About 50 Christian churches here in my location, and AZ as a whole went Trump by what, 5 or 6% only??? So all them folks sitting in churches on Sunday mornings, damn near half of them voted Hillery, now ain't that some wild shit???

With 60,000,000 plus votes for Hillery, and with only 1.5, to 1.700,000 total Jewish votes in the general election last November, with 35% or so going for Trump, and the other 65% or so spread around between Hillery and other third party whack jobs, it goes to reason that those other 58,000,000 that voted for Hillery were anything but Jewish voters, but that's just me being me.

With near same results for both of Obammy's wins, and the near win of Hillery, damn, its shaping up to be what, a Christian problem placing these fools into office????

65 to 70% of 1.5 to 1.7 million people voting as a block, mostly in NY and California, ain't throwing a national election for anyone, unless California and NY come into play, which I do believe votes solid Dim Wit for past 40 years or so????

Shalom

Forgot, how much did you donate to Trump, this fellow dumped well over 100,000,000LOL
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/u...ald-trump.html
I even kicked in a few bucks.
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Old May 16, 2017, 13:44   #23
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Compared to your location in AZ, I live right next door to NYC.
The faithful I am exposed to here are largely Hillary supporters- be they Jews or Goy.
Israeli nationals seem to be of a very different stripe. The ones I know are contemptuous of their U.S. brethren.

As far as the Taurus quality thing, I'm just sharing my highly anecdotal experience with the things. If you're comfortable keeping them as defensive weapons, by all means suture-self.

And I didn't donate anything to Trump, besides my vote. His performance to date is fine with me. Agree or disagree, he has yet to bore me. I consider that priceless.
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Old May 16, 2017, 14:54   #24
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Compared to your location in AZ, I live right next door to NYC.
The faithful I am exposed to here are largely Hillary supporters- be they Jews or Goy.
Israeli nationals seem to be of a very different stripe. The ones I know are contemptuous of their U.S. brethren.

As far as the Taurus quality thing, I'm just sharing my highly anecdotal experience with the things. If you're comfortable keeping them as defensive weapons, by all means suture-self.

And I didn't donate anything to Trump, besides my vote. His performance to date is fine with me. Agree or disagree, he has yet to bore me. I consider that priceless.
WE are an odd bunch, always have been.
We are gaining ground on voting patterns, 35% or so for Trump is stunning for our voting population.
Another 15% and we're up to the norms here in our country.
Thinking is finally changing, slowly, but its being seen in voting patterns.
Most adult Israeli's have been in the military, many been in war, unlike most Americans, and most American Jews.
I get along fine with them, and they me, once they learn I'm an retired Army combat medic, Airborne.
Being on guard 24/7/365 from time of birth till death of being slaughtered for your faith, your family, children, grand parents, mom and dad, wife, husbands, brothers and sisters, etc, make one a little hard line for those living in Disneyland.

I'm a militant hard line right wing American who also happens to be Jewish.
Granted, they are not that many of us.
Yet.

I picked up my Taurus handguns 25 or even 30 years ago, when money was tight.
So far, and a lot of rounds down range, they work fine for me, for others maybe not so much.
The 85 gets shot, 10 or 20 rounds a month when I'm at the range, as an after thought, just to make sure it and I still work well together and only with normal pressure rounds, its a back up weapon. This little pistol became a habit a long time ago.
I reload. I can wear out, break, destroy any hand gun of any make in a single range session just by shooting it with max pressured rounds until something breaks. It might take a while, or it might go boom on the first chamber, but all weapons can be abused by dumb people and are I suspect daily.

I look at low cost weapons like old VW bugs.
They will work, won't go to fast, leak oil, ugly, but with proper care, they are far better than walking.

Most folks here on FF can afford to drive Cadillac's with V12 engines, we're older and have more money to spend on firearms and do.

I've noticed that as GUN people age, they forget that not everyone is as well off and able to afford the best new thing.

A young widow with three children, her husband was killed in Afghanistan, decided she needed a pistol for her home and some asshole in a LGS sold her an 800.00 Colt 1911 that she could not rack the slide on.

I bought the 1911, ugh, and gave her a 4 inch Smith model 10 with tapered barrel and then taught her to shoot it.

Don't get me started on LGS pulling this shit daily on people who don;t know any better to make a fast buck.
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Old May 16, 2017, 21:38   #25
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I suggest that Tauri be avoided, unless that is all you can afford.

However 20 years ago I bought a stainless m85 from a family friend that was in a monetary crisis.

It is a good one, I have at least a thousand rounds through it and the timing, end shake, cylinder lockup etc is still good. I tinkered with it and I have a 9 pound DA trigger pull.

It is a better shooter than my J and I Frame Smiths.

I guess I should have bought a Lotto Ticket that day also.

90 percent of the other Tauri I have examined seem sketchy.
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Old May 19, 2017, 19:40   #26
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Is it me or is the top strap bulged upward?

I like my Taurus 99's and rank them highly, and have owned many Taurus revolvers. I still own a NIB .44mag Tracker snubby that I admit to being hesitant to ever shoot. I don't know about kabooms in Taurus wheel guns but I know from personal experience with several that they often shoot loose and need to be repaired, timing wise.

I am also Jewish, an army veteran (U.S., not Isreali), and have been a right winger all my life. I despise about 99% of boot licking, Democrat voting American Jews. I despise anybody that votes for those assholes, for that matter.
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Old May 19, 2017, 20:39   #27
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Is it me or is the top strap bulged upward?

I like my Taurus 99's and rank them highly, and have owned many Taurus revolvers. I still own a NIB .44mag Tracker snubby that I admit to being hesitant to ever shoot. I don't know about kabooms in Taurus wheel guns but I know from personal experience with several that they often shoot loose and need to be repaired, timing wise.

I am also Jewish, an army veteran (U.S., not Israeli), and have been a right winger all my life. I despise about 99% of boot licking, Democrat voting American Jews. I despise anybody that votes for those assholes, for that matter.
Oh G-D, say it ain't so, not another one!

With you, now about a dozen of us here, we keep this shit up, all the crap about anti gun dim wit voting Jewish folks might just need a revamp in the thinking of many.

OK, I'm dreaming on that one.

Shalom
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Old May 19, 2017, 21:43   #28
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Oh G-D, say it ain't so, not another one!

With you, now about a dozen of us here, we keep this shit up, all the crap about anti gun dim wit voting Jewish folks might just need a revamp in the thinking of many.

OK, I'm dreaming on that one.

Shalom
And, by the way, Glucker, the top strap is bulged upwards. That's pretty common with this type of 'event.'

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Old May 19, 2017, 22:09   #29
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And, by the way, Glucker, the top strap is bulged upwards. That's pretty common with this type of 'event.'

Forrest
It is by all the ones I've seen go up in flames.

I wonder if anyone has ever filmed one of these in slow motion, a deliberate blow up?

Is it the pressure that expands the top strap or the top of the cylinder hitting it or some other action?
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Old May 19, 2017, 22:49   #30
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Well the guy brought the rest of the ammo in today.......commercial reloads. Thee are only 5 left but i am going to pull them down this weekend and see if anything stands out.
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Old May 20, 2017, 10:43   #31
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.......commercial reloads.
Talking about commercial reloads....my SIL just won a Charter Pitbull in .40 S&W. He bought a bag of commercial reloads and out of the 50 cartridges,
15 didn't go off. He hit the primers 2 or 3 times each and still no go.
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Old June 02, 2017, 16:51   #32
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Bullseye is the most common powder reloaded use. Because you can get a lot reloaded out of a pound of powder. A full case of bullseye will blow up any 38 Special. I willing to bet a gross over load.
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Old June 03, 2017, 07:24   #33
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I was a quality engineer for ten years. Would be interesting to give commercial reloader the treatment I've given suppliers as well as in-house processes. I think I'll give my own setup the same scrutiny, which I already know is lacking.

I'm just getting started with a Dillon 550B, and I've recognized many ways to make dangerous mistakes that I would never make when loading single stage. The price of efficiency. I can imagine ways to error-proof some operations but can be very expensive. For loading pistol ammo I started following an eight-count rhythm to assure I've accomplished each step. One count is to peer down into the case into which I've just thrown a charge. An improvement I'll make is a little wire needle beside the case pointing approximately to the powder height (550 doesnt have a station for powder detection device).
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Old June 03, 2017, 07:53   #34
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Old June 03, 2017, 11:41   #35
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. An improvement I'll make is a little wire needle beside the case pointing approximately to the powder height (550 doesnt have a station for powder detection device).

Is that why you have asked me about 10 times if I have a powder check die for the 650 yet?
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Old June 03, 2017, 11:57   #36
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Is that why you have asked me about 10 times if I have a powder check die for the 650 yet?
C'mon. Would a guy who converted an AKM to 8mm Mauser pay mind to any amount of nagging over safety devices? And shouldnt you be plowing or planting something?
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Old June 03, 2017, 14:54   #37
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I was a quality engineer for ten years. Would be interesting to give commercial reloader the treatment I've given suppliers as well as in-house processes. I think I'll give my own setup the same scrutiny, which I already know is lacking.

I'm just getting started with a Dillon 550B, and I've recognized many ways to make dangerous mistakes that I would never make when loading single stage. The price of efficiency. I can imagine ways to error-proof some operations but can be very expensive. For loading pistol ammo I started following an eight-count rhythm to assure I've accomplished each step. One count is to peer down into the case into which I've just thrown a charge. An improvement I'll make is a little wire needle beside the case pointing approximately to the powder height (550 doesnt have a station for powder detection device).
Or just use a powder, that if there is a double charge, spills out all over your press works well too!

I used progressive presses for years when shooting matches, but now have gone back to turret presses, to SEE every charge dropping into EVERY case, with the use of powders that spill out, if double charged, pretty much lessons or eliminates most issues.
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Old June 03, 2017, 17:51   #38
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Ok WEG it looks like it used to be a barrel. Curious as to how it got stuck in the ceiling.
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Old June 04, 2017, 09:09   #39
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Or just use a powder, that if there is a double charge, spills out all over your press works well too!
You go to the press with the powder you have, not the powder you wish you had. When I use up what I have maybe I'll try a more voluminous powder. 12000 rounds to go.
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Old June 04, 2017, 10:04   #40
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WEG, you've been experimenting with that water rocket again haven't you? You had better be careful, you're liable to put your eye out with that thing!

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Old June 04, 2017, 10:09   #41
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Longer drop tubes allow you to 'use' more powder in the case, of course...

Forrest
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Old June 04, 2017, 12:33   #42
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Is that a stripped pole that got to hot to handle.
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Old June 04, 2017, 13:23   #43
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Old June 04, 2017, 13:59   #44
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Ah, so...
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Old June 04, 2017, 14:12   #45
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WEG, that would make your avatar proud.
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Old June 04, 2017, 14:58   #46
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You go to the press with the powder you have, not the powder you wish you had. When I use up what I have maybe I'll try a more voluminous powder. 12000 rounds to go.
Good luck over the next 12000 rounds.
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Old June 21, 2017, 10:27   #47
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Bump with resolution.

Taurus sent the guy a used replacement firearm. Pretty good customer service by any standard.
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Old June 22, 2017, 17:21   #48
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When i was still doing the Cowboy action shooting, there was a spate of quality sixguns going boom. The cause was guys were reloading their cases for lighter recoil so as to get back on target quicker. What the surmised was since the powder was up by the projectile when it was holstered, that when the gun was drawn and the barrel was never brought up to high,so when the trigger was pulled the charge being up front went both ways one way was out the barrel and upward, the solution was using a filler material to take up the empty space.
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Old June 25, 2017, 14:29   #49
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For some strange reason I never felt comfortable using primer feed tubes. I seat the primers by hand, one by one.

The primer feed tubes that I got with my press are still in their original wrapper, and brand new.

I use a turret press (Lyman T-Mag 2) and so far got lucky, no incidents.
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Old June 25, 2017, 15:05   #50
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Are you showing off that new toolset from Lowes? Can't believe you've already lost the 1/2 inch socket
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