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Old December 04, 2018, 22:05   #1
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Yet another hobby............ugh.

Well, I've finally purchased my first old flywheel engine. But, my first is a biggie. I just purchased a Cooper-Bessemer 40hp oil filed engine. This thing is big! The flywheels are 1,250 lbs. each and they are almost 6 feet tall! I plan on making it run on propane. I think it's pretty cool and will cut in to my FAL time, but that's ok, the pile is getting smaller. By the way, it's free turning and I already have a nice, bright, snappy spark!









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Old December 04, 2018, 22:18   #2
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Drop an LS in it.

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Old December 04, 2018, 22:20   #3
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Holy Cow. You could have powered the entire 1800's Winchester factory with that thing. I guess we know who has the biggest Jimmy in the building.
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Old December 04, 2018, 23:18   #4
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That's awesome!

There's been an IHC hit and miss engine listed locally, and I refuse to read the phone number out of fear that I'll remember it, call the guy, and end up owning it. I love the old stuff!
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Old December 04, 2018, 23:45   #5
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What will you do with it?
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Old December 05, 2018, 01:43   #6
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Those old slow speed engines will last forever. My grand father had a couple of small ones (IHC?) that pumped water for the cows well into the early 80's. Oil 'em up, fill the water hoppers, and let them run 'til they ran out of gas to fill 1500 gallons of water tanks once a week. They were stupid simple engines.

Funny thing was that it took a 12HP Briggs to do the same job as one of those old 1HP engines running a pump jack.
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Old December 05, 2018, 03:49   #7
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BiGB808, who knows what I'll do with it. The price was more than fair and it was 2 miles from my house! The first thing I'm going to do, though, is get it running and measure for a setup that I can possibly build some sort of trolley, cart or trailer for it to make it so that I can move it around with the ol' JD B so it don't take up my shop space.


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Old December 05, 2018, 07:35   #8
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Listers were more my thing. Thatís a seriously big little engine. The 6hp Lister CS weighs almost 800 lbs! That thing looks like it needs piers.....
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Old December 05, 2018, 07:52   #9
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Very cool Leland. I have a friend from church who is a serious collector of antique tractors and engines such as this. If you need any advice or sources for parts or what-not, let me know and I will hook you up with him.
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Old December 05, 2018, 08:17   #10
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Wow, I've never seen one of those before. It's very interesting. Knew an old guy here locally who built steam engines. He owned a very early Stanley Steamer and built a small steam engine for a motorcycle. About how old is that engine Leland?
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Old December 05, 2018, 09:52   #11
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I have been looking for a 10-20hp around here, but they are all owned by collectors who want big $$$ for them. Well, I did find one a lady is using for a planter in her yard.

I have no time for it...just another side want I will probably never get to.
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Old December 05, 2018, 10:12   #12
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Pretty cool....one of my hobbies used to be building paper craft flywheel "steam" engines powered by low pressure compressed air. The Bertchy one is one of my favorites:

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Old December 05, 2018, 10:20   #13
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That is some fantastic old arn...

Many big thresherees and steam shows in Indiana, so if you get that unit trailer mounted you'd be good to go!
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Old December 05, 2018, 12:36   #14
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Good grief Leland that things huge. Do you have any ideas of when it was made? My Dad has several hit & miss motors but nothing even close to the size of yours.

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Old December 05, 2018, 12:40   #15
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Thatís cool! The hitormiss motor guys around here like the little ones. The bigger ones are more affordable.
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Old December 05, 2018, 14:44   #16
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Drop an LS in it.

I been looking at the photos and I canít figure out where the locking shoulder goes.
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Old December 05, 2018, 15:28   #17
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Is that a "hit and miss", type?
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Old December 05, 2018, 17:55   #18
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Grove City engine?
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Old December 05, 2018, 18:05   #19
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Stimpy,
There once was one up on Yahoola Creek just below Dahlonega at the old Crown Mountain Gold mines behind the Blue Grass Music park throughout the 80's and early 90's. (probably 50-75 yards down stream of the new ball fields now) The shed was partially collapsed around it, but it was complete with all the old rotten belts and overhead transfer bars /reduction "gears" (not sure what they are called) laying around. The stamp mill was still standing but I think has since collapsed. It powered a massive wooden wheel probably 6-8 feet in diameter that ran the crusher and stamp mill. The wheel surface for the belts was 2-3 feet wide! It was impressive. Probably long gone now. I'll help you load it in your truck if its still there...
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Old December 05, 2018, 18:12   #20
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What would be cool is if you could actually power something with it. Boy those were the days. No machine guards and no little stickers. Darwin awards were easier to get back then
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Old December 05, 2018, 19:01   #21
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Built in Grove City, Pa and then shipped to Oklahoma to the oil fields. Here is a copy of the original receipt for the engine back in 1926.






Leland
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Old December 05, 2018, 20:07   #22
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I noticed the motorcycle in the background of the second picture; is that a 2-stroke triple Kawasaki, or Suzuki? Don't see many of those anymore but the Kawasaki's were a rocket in their day.
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Old December 05, 2018, 20:11   #23
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I noticed the motorcycle in the background of the second picture; is that a 2-stroke triple Kawasaki, or Suzuki? Don't see many of those anymore but the Kawasaki's were a rocket in their day.
TG you will kill yer self on that thing. I was noticing the surface grinder and stuff. Nice shop
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Old December 05, 2018, 20:15   #24
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TG you will kill yer self on that thing. I was noticing the surface grinder and stuff. Nice shop
No, I don't want one of those now. I did back around 1973, '74. Local chief of police had a blue Kawasaki 750 triple for sale but something told me no...

and yes, it is a nice shop.
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Old December 05, 2018, 20:24   #25
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No, I don't want one of those now. I did back around 1973, '74. Local chief of police had a blue Kawasaki 750 triple for sale but something told me no...

and yes, it is a nice shop.
If someone gave me one of those RS350s(IIRC) that would run, I would mount it up. Same with an XR750 Harley.


ETA: My father told me before he died that he wouldn't let me have a motorcicle when I was a kid because of the damn devastation of some of my bicycle and mini bike wrecks.
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Old December 05, 2018, 21:06   #26
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Drop an LS in it.

Only if carburated.

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What will you do with it?
Power a sex toy, duh!
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Old December 05, 2018, 21:46   #27
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This big engine is a two stroke. Also, the bike in the background is one I recently purchased in pieces. I put it together and got it running. I'll squirrel it away until I get time for it. I think I may keep this one, it's a 1976 Yamaha RD400 (2 cyl., 2 stroke). They were nicknamed "giant killers" because they would run. But, I did also have a Kawasaki 500 Mach III triple, as well. It was even faster.............and neither had enough brakes. Crazy rpm's once on the pipe.


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Old December 05, 2018, 23:52   #28
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This big engine is a two stroke. Also, the bike in the background is one I recently purchased in pieces. I put it together and got it running. I'll squirrel it away until I get time for it. I think I may keep this one, it's a 1976 Yamaha RD400 (2 cyl., 2 stroke). They were nicknamed "giant killers" because they would run. But, I did also have a Kawasaki 500 Mach III triple, as well. It was even faster.............and neither had enough brakes. Crazy rpm's once on the pipe.


Leland
That 2 stroke thing explains a lot. I have been staring at the pics and just realized there were no rocker arms on the cylinder head.
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Old December 06, 2018, 00:57   #29
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I spent a week in 1985 with a blood relative knocking around the oilfields outside of Cut Bank Montana.

The pumpjacks were powered by engines fueled from the sour gas off the wellhead.

The largest were water cooled Fairbanks-Morse 503s that Texaco had surplussed off in the 1930s.

Curious machines to start up.


........................
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Old December 06, 2018, 10:37   #30
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All of the engines in the Southern Illinois oils fields were powered by well gas. Lots of coal mines and oil wells so methane was readily available. Converting yours to commercial gas should be relatively easy.
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Old December 06, 2018, 11:17   #31
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My Dad had was messing with a McCormick Deering 1/1/2 horse hit & miss motor along time ago and my Brother-in-law got the bright idea to lay a 2X4 against the flywheel and put pressure on it with his foot. He started to bare down on the 2X4 and the motor started to slow down and he got this big ole smile on his face because he thought he was going to stall out the motor and just when he smelled success the motor fired and the ole flywheels started spinning again and then he soon lost his smile, he tried a couple more times but finally gave up.

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Old December 06, 2018, 11:18   #32
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The Henry Ford museum in Dearborn, Michigan is filled with machinery from the dawn of the industrial age. Engines such as yours, both internal combustion and steam are to be found in all sizes from the minuscule to the ridiculously huge. Any gear head would be in dreamland walking around the place.

Wyadotte, Michigan is the home of an annual model engineering expo. Same gear head stuff, but done in miniature scale. Hit and miss. Steam locos. Quite impressive to see scale model race cars with v-8 and v-12 engines running. Thinking of the fine detail and craftsmanship that goes into those tiny engines makes my head hurt.

Always wanted a smaller hit and miss, but never could find one at a reasonable price. Have no idea what I would do with one other than admire how they are so cool in their simplicity and rugged construction. It still has them running after a century. Gotta love that.
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Old December 06, 2018, 11:47   #33
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What would be cool is if you could actually power something with it. Boy those were the days. No machine guards and no little stickers. Darwin awards were easier to get back then
Funny you mention that. Grandfather's youngest brother was killed long before I was born, but the story told by the surviving brothers was he was the one drinker in a family of So. Baptists, showed up drunk at the lumber mill one day and got tangled up in the flywheel. Apparently you couldn't stop them by hand, but your entire torso would get the job done. Happened in the mid 1930s I think.

Darwin award indeed.
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Old December 06, 2018, 12:24   #34
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Leland, looks like a cool toy to fool around with. I haven't been in quite awhile but there used to be a weekend meet at Battleground where you could see all sizes, hit and miss and steam. was really enjoyable talking to the guys about their engines. Now I just go to the Ind. state fair and they run all kinds of things with them there and really enjoy looking at the old tractors.

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Old December 06, 2018, 14:43   #35
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What does the entire thing weigh? 5-6000 lbs? More? I'm curious how long that thing would run off a 500 gallon propane tank. With a decent genny head coupled to it. I think that would even run off of fairly crude oil. The old Deere tractors you'd start on a higher octane like gasoline,then could switch over to a cheaper oil once they warmed up. A friend has an old B his gramps used to run that way.
Even the frame under that engine is seriously beef-steak..
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Old December 06, 2018, 14:54   #36
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This big engine is a two stroke. Also, the bike in the background is one I recently purchased in pieces. I put it together and got it running. I'll squirrel it away until I get time for it. I think I may keep this one, it's a 1976 Yamaha RD400 (2 cyl., 2 stroke). They were nicknamed "giant killers" because they would run. But, I did also have a Kawasaki 500 Mach III triple, as well. It was even faster.............and neither had enough brakes. Crazy rpm's once on the pipe.


Leland


My veterinarian has one he built to look like a TZ750 with Tablock magnesium wheels. Really sharp in Yamaha yellow with checkerboards.
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Old December 06, 2018, 15:29   #37
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I believe this engine would run on just about any type of fuel, even some liquid fuels if adapted. I'm going to run this one on propane. Guys around these parts do that so that they can transport the cylinders easy enough and then run down to the local convenience store if they run out during a show. I have since removed those nasty bolt studs sticking out from the other side's flywheel so that I don't get into it if not paying too close attention during oiling or some such. Also, I literally have a big grin on my face right now because I just fired it once on some ether sprayed directly into the spark plug hole. Now, I gotta get a 1" wide governor belt made up and some sort of layout for the cooling lines/tank.


Leland
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Old December 06, 2018, 16:22   #38
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I wish i could find an old ww1 or ww2 era aircraft or blimp engine for cheap .... buuuut i live on the wrong continent for finding that....

That is some serious iron there!!!!!
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Old December 06, 2018, 20:12   #39
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Stimpy,
There once was one up on Yahoola Creek just below Dahlonega at the old Crown Mountain Gold mines behind the Blue Grass Music park throughout the 80's and early 90's. (probably 50-75 yards down stream of the new ball fields now) The shed was partially collapsed around it, but it was complete with all the old rotten belts and overhead transfer bars /reduction "gears" (not sure what they are called) laying around. The stamp mill was still standing but I think has since collapsed. It powered a massive wooden wheel probably 6-8 feet in diameter that ran the crusher and stamp mill. The wheel surface for the belts was 2-3 feet wide! It was impressive. Probably long gone now. I'll help you load it in your truck if its still there...
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Old December 07, 2018, 08:29   #40
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There is a super cool steam engine museum in England at Kew Bridge. As I recall, there was a really large steam engine that powered the water system in London there. It was still working.

Here are a couple of videos from there.





It was one of the best museums I have ever been to.

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Old December 07, 2018, 16:08   #41
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Built in Grove City, Pa and then shipped to Oklahoma to the oil fields. Here is a copy of the original receipt for the engine back in 1926.






Leland
I work about 5-min from the old Cooper Bessemer plant. Buildings are still there but mostly empty. Some smaller company leases part of it.
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Old December 07, 2018, 16:45   #42
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Yeah, Byron, they forwarded us to Texas. There is a guy there that claims they still have some parts for these old workhorses. He is also the guy that sent this copy of the receipt and also a copy of the original parts manual.

I should also tell you guys that once spark is made, there is a rush by motor guys to get it to fire at least once to ease tensions about whether it will run or not. So............I pulled the spark plug, turned the flywheels over to where I thought was the beginning of the compression stroke and then shot a large amount of ether inside the spark plug hole. Quickly, I screwed in the spark plug and turn the flywheels over. I initially thought I had the entire compression stroke minus about 4 degrees before the mag would fire.......................surprise!!! I was turning it the wrong way. The proper direction is clockwise if looking at the mag side of the engine.

Well, the loudest bang occurred immediately after the flywheel began to turn. I swear my ears are still ringing. But, at least I know it'll fire.....



Leland
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Old December 07, 2018, 22:22   #43
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Now all you need to do is locate a workable generator missing a power plant. You could seriously cut down your power bill using this.
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Old December 07, 2018, 23:01   #44
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I work about 5-min from the old Cooper Bessemer plant. Buildings are still there but mostly empty. Some smaller company leases part of it.
Didn't Cooper Bessemer supply Diesel engines to the GE locomotive works in the days of the U series locomotives?
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Old December 08, 2018, 20:30   #45
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Didn't Cooper Bessemer supply Diesel engines to the GE locomotive works in the days of the U series locomotives?
Cooper Bessemer did indeed supply engines to GE for testing. Later on GE bought out the 7-FDL (locomotive) and 7-FDM (marine) engines. Cooper Bessemer also made diesel engines for 210 foot Coast guard cutters in the 60s as well as for heavy industrial usage.

World war II saw the rise of Cooper Bessemer as a big contributor to the war effort with diesel engine and industrial compressor production. Cooper no longer produces diesel engines and at one time even owned Garner-Denver, which was sold off.

Who knows what they do now or if they are still around anymore.
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Old December 09, 2018, 19:35   #46
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Cooper Bessemer did indeed supply engines to GE for testing. Later on GE bought out the 7-FDL (locomotive) and 7-FDM (marine) engines. Cooper Bessemer also made diesel engines for 210 foot Coast guard cutters in the 60s as well as for heavy industrial usage.

World war II saw the rise of Cooper Bessemer as a big contributor to the war effort with diesel engine and industrial compressor production. Cooper no longer produces diesel engines and at one time even owned Garner-Denver, which was sold off.

Who knows what they do now or if they are still around anymore.
From the Knox County Ohio history site:

In 1965 The Cooper-Bessemer Corporation diversified into Cooper Industries, with the Mount Vernon and Grove City, Pa., operations comprising the energy segment of the business. Two years later, the Cooper Industries headquarters relocated to Houston, Texas. In 1995, local Cooper operations were spun off from Cooper Industries to Cooper-Cameron, and in 1999, Cooper-Cameronís Mount Vernon Works became Rolls-Royce Energy Systems, Inc., and in 2014 became part of the worldwide Siemens Energy Corporation.

http://www.knoxhistory.org/index.php...e-cooper-story
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Old December 09, 2018, 19:54   #47
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That pretty much ties up all the loose ends in the history of Cooper Bessemer. Sad to see a major player in industrial technology being absorbed by a foreign entity.

FUUN063 has to be applauded for seeing that an old timer like that is preserved and maintained in running condition. What he has there is living history and not just a picture in a book or static display. Imagine a wide eyed child seeing an old relic of the past operating for the first time. Museums are great places for learning, but seeing an old timer running in real life is priceless. Good on ya!
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Old December 09, 2018, 20:21   #48
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Well done. Looking forward to vid of it running. An old feller a few miles from here found a very old steam donkey engine, buried in a mineshaft tailings pile for the last 80 years. Somehow he got it to his shop ( damn thing is close to 10 feet high), tore it down, put it back together, and fired it up. Yes, it is every bit as cool as you think it is and maybe cooler...
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