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Old July 09, 2019, 06:17   #1
TenTea
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NZ compliance rate = 0.00046667 %

It seems the NZ governmental plea to voluntarily relinquish firearms is not being taken seriously by the populace, based on the compliance numbers.

https://reason.com/2019/07/08/noncom...ontrol-scheme/
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Old July 09, 2019, 06:40   #2
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After today if Gov. 'Coonman' and his gaggle of leftists are successful in stripping constitutional rights away from Virginians, I wonder if those Virginians will exercise the same good sense to ignore the unjust laws and recognize the tyrannical nature of what has happened to them.
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Old July 09, 2019, 09:13   #3
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I always find the concept of something "buy back" interesting; how can you buy something back when it was not yours to begin with?

In December the amnesty period expires. Per Mike Clement, New Zealand Police’s deputy commissioner of national operations,
Quote:
“We acknowledge that you’re a law-abiding citizen and through no fault of your own you now find yourself in possession of firearms that are now illegal,” he said, but he noted that once the amnesty period expires, there is no excuse for holding on to weapons.
Does that mean Katrina-like confiscation?

I do wonder if The Council of Licensed Firearms Owners takes contributions to help them fight the good fight.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/07/0...lying-gun-ban/
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Old July 09, 2019, 09:17   #4
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We would all be ultimately better off if we ignored the crap governments produce. Look at New Mexico and how quickly the gun control idiots backed down when they realized that the majority of the populace would either ignore any proclamation or put up resistance.
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Old July 09, 2019, 09:18   #5
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We would all be ultimately better off if we ignored the crap governments produce. Look at New Mexico and how quickly the gun control idiots backed down when they realized that the majority of the populace would either ignore any proclamation or put up resistance.
Yep!
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heavily armed, easily pissed.
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Old July 09, 2019, 09:32   #6
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Kiwis are probably anticipating the day when storming *mega-rich survival compounds* on the island might become essential to their existence...

I would bet the owner's of those compounds are gunned up to the hilt and have zero plans to comply. Because survival.
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Old July 09, 2019, 20:57   #7
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In December the amnesty period expires. Per Mike Clement, New Zealand Police’s deputy commissioner of national operations,
This is probably why the "comply" percentage is still so low.


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Old July 09, 2019, 21:30   #8
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It's not enough to merely "not comply". One must kill all those who attempt confiscation, and their families, and their little dog Toto, too. Cut off their heads and place them on pikes. End their entire bloodline. Burn their homes and sow their fields with salt so that nothing will grow there for a hundred years.

So that the prince might comprehend the real meaning of "thou shalt not".

When dealing with evil, half-measures are without merit.

“When you strike at a king, you must kill him.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Old July 10, 2019, 12:43   #9
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It's not enough to merely "not comply". One must kill all those who attempt confiscation, and their families, and their little dog Toto, too. Cut off their heads and place them on pikes. End their entire bloodline. Burn their homes and sow their fields with salt so that nothing will grow there for a hundred years.

So that the prince might comprehend the real meaning of "thou shalt not".

When dealing with evil, half-measures are without merit.

“When you strike at a king, you must kill him.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson
I think a good shot-across-the-bow to start with would be to widely publish the names, addresses, phone numbers, email address, etc... of all these scumbags and all their relatives. Hypothetically.
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Old July 10, 2019, 15:10   #10
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about the same with bum-stocks here. which, i'm sure, was noted by all but the CNN watching idiots, who think that all bum-stocks are now dissapeared by magic. 30 million illegal aliens are walking the streets. who's gonna notice a half million bum-stocks?

lao tsu wrote about making arbitrary laws justified by "kindness and justice", and the natural consequence thereof, in tao te ching 2500 years ago:

When the greatness of the Tao (virtue) is present,

action arises from one’s own heart.

When the greatness of the Tao is absent,

action comes from the rules

of “kindness and justice.”

If you need rules to be kind and just,

if you act virtuous,

this is a sure sign that virtue is absent.

Thus we see the great hypocrisy.

When kinship falls into discord,

piety and rites of devotion arise.

When the country falls into chaos,

official loyalists will appear;

patriotism is born.

Lao-tzu

a good analysis:
http://www.friesian.com/taote.htm
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Old July 10, 2019, 15:14   #11
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Our side often argues the feasibility of disarmament programs all dead wrong.


You constantly see folks speaking of Gun Owning people as being so totally law abiding
Reality is overall, they are NOT

Like it or not every thug with a gun on the streets of Chicago are Gun Owners too

An even better indicator is bump stock ban compliance
the numbers collected by the bureau is seriously nil.

Another example is the widespread sale of so-called solvent traps.
Shit Walmart.com was even advertising them

https://www.walmart.com/ip/11-Pcs-Al...inum/698753086

and they list a wide variety of them with the baffles center marked ready to be drilled

Other outfits sell 80% AR DIAS kits

This has gone on for decades too in one form or another
I was selling STEN kits in the late 70s, sold hundreds over the years
MAC SMg kits with receiver flats
NFA drilling jigs
etc, etc, etc...

Truth is today there are literally 100's of thousands of unregistered suppressed machineguns in America, you can take that one to the Bank

Who owns them ?
well not many violent criminals
that's indicated by the low historical numbers used in crime
my customers were mostly old farmers and active LE

Problem is politicians think we are a Nation of Laws that THEY create
nope, we are a nation of Citizens with Rights and a majority of Citizens really just don't have any shits given about breaking Law that infringes upon their personal interests

Go to EBAY, search under "Still"
pages of custom stills to make booze
if there was no market for them they not would be advertised

Most of the nation has about zero shits given now about someone growing weed, even making Hashish from it

Prostitution is rampant sea to shining sea
it's likely far more common, and even acceptable now then it was in the Old West in my opinion.
Very very young girls are selling their bodies online
Oh sure, we blame the Man on these things
that's largely horseshit
for every Human Trafficer there are likely a few dozen free lancers selling pussy on the internet
We just don't like to admit that all these girls Epstien messed with were paid Whores
Moreover, many of them that are coming forward are only doing so to get a further payout
Look at that young gal recently slaughtered in Utah
She was all over numerous websites offering services
she was in fact a Whore but that don't fit with the media's cultural narrative

neither does the certain reality of gun ownership in these United States of America. Truth again ?
Gun Owners are an incredibly diverse group with the NRA maybe speaking for one in ten
another truth ?
The NRA would like to jail up at least a third of all Gun Owners, you know the bad people
My view is we need no stinking regulation

Asshole uses a weapon to rob, maim or murder then you charge them with the robbing, maiming or murder
that's it
we don't need gun counts any more than we need Hate Crimes horseshit

As I noted in the past, I really doubt that many Kiwi's will comply
they may have been able to weather down a partial ban, certainly regulating more things stricter
Arden pushed it right over the top and the people are pushing back in a Nation where there is no RKBA
Happened in Australia as well
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Old July 10, 2019, 18:42   #12
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Well to some degree or another an ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY..
it is true because USUALLY outright knowing that if you start shit you may very well be the one shit on.....

Remember when florida passe a law that said every resident must have a firearm or hand gun? Crime went down... at least until the crooks started targeting RENTAL cars and tourists... because most tourists were not armed, no fear of consequences for their actions...


What I think has sunk in finally is the fact that a whole population is being subjected to assinine crap laws due to a crime committed by someone who was NOT A RESIDENT OR CITIZEN of NZ... I think they are finally saying' screw you I am not going to be punished and have to turn in my property because some 'illegal' or 'non resident' , 'non citizen' commits a heinous crime and now 'you'-GOV want to punish 'US'-Citizens.

These gov douchebags are all mental midgets, NONE of them get the concept that a criminal or terrorist will find a way to do what they intend to do....

hell i can think of many ways to do 'x' in order to achieve 'y' BUT that bridge has not come up yet.....
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Old July 10, 2019, 20:57   #13
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About what the compliance numbers in the US would be..
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Old July 10, 2019, 21:17   #14
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I'm thinking of Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse now, or if you want to go back to Faulkner in the original Heart of Darkness. It's a matter of what one is prepared to do for the desired end. And if your opposition is not fettered by the same societal norms that you are - you lose.*

Similarly, in a FB meme on fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. We had to burn them out , cave by cave, then nuke them twice.

You want to eliminate something, you need to have the ruthlessness to completely eliminate it. It's what I call "bad thought 101" and I've caught some flack for it. Because it involves the slaughter of innocents. But the difference between cruelty and ruthlessness is whether one takes pleasure in it.

While Emerson was speaking of challenging the preeminence of Plato (or Aristotle, I can't remember), the point remains. If you strike at the King (or the Prince, as I choose in a Machiavellian fashion), you must kill the King. Because half measures result in your annihilation.

I love dogs and kids. Grown-ups, not so much. It would give me nightmares to kill a bunch of innocent kids. But if doing so established to the Prince that there are certain lines that he may not cross - I'd do it in spades.

You must so terrorize the powers that be, that they not only cease the action you oppose, but lie trembling in their beds, fearing that they are next.

In a totalitarian regime, the people fear the government. In a constitutional republic, the government must fear the people.


Government MUST fear the people. The moment they don't is the moment for Nacht der langen Messer.

--------
“I’ve seen horrors… horrors that you’ve seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that… but you have no right to judge me. It’s impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face… and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn’t see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember… I… I… I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized… like I was shot… like I was shot with a diamond… a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God… the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
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Old July 10, 2019, 21:41   #15
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About what the compliance numbers in the US would be..
Okay, some of my experience:

Back in the second half of the 90s we were doing Lake County shows in IL
droves of folks from Chicago showed up unloading handguns to out of state FFLs
about none of the guns being sold were licensed either
mostly older White folks selling this and that at rock bottom offers
see the thing is most nobody attempted to comply with Cook County rules

As I have already mentioned many could give a hoot about the NFA

in my opinion this is all part of what drives some of the valuation on sear cut FALs
You see it to lesser degrees with low shelf ARs, things like 1st gen FN PS90s, etc
why ?
because ease of conversion
same deal with open bolt RPB SAP MACs and early open bolt KG9s

reality is plain folks everywhere are highly resistant to government authority
but in America that's magnified to the 10th power

media and researchers are actually clueless regarding just how gunned up America actually is
they look it what's easily visible unwilling to accept like an Iceberg, you are only seeing the tip of it
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Old July 10, 2019, 21:44   #16
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hell i can think of many ways to do 'x' in order to achieve 'y' BUT that bridge has not come up yet.....
And I agree, the bridge has not yet come. But I think back to Thomas Paine.

I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.
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Old July 10, 2019, 22:04   #17
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I'm thinking of Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse now, or if you want to go back to Faulkner in the original Heart of Darkness. It's a matter of what one is prepared to do for the desired end. And if your opposition is not fettered by the same societal norms that you are - you lose.*

Similarly, in a FB meme on fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. We had to burn them out , cave by cave, then nuke them twice.

You want to eliminate something, you need to have the ruthlessness to completely eliminate it. It's what I call "bad thought 101" and I've caught some flack for it. Because it involves the slaughter of innocents. But the difference between cruelty and ruthlessness is whether one takes pleasure in it.

While Emerson was speaking of challenging the preeminence of Plato (or Aristotle, I can't remember), the point remains. If you strike at the King (or the Prince, as I choose in a Machiavellian fashion), you must kill the King. Because half measures result in your annihilation.

I love dogs and kids. Grown-ups, not so much. It would give me nightmares to kill a bunch of innocent kids. But if doing so established to the Prince that there are certain lines that he may not cross - I'd do it in spades.

You must so terrorize the powers that be, that they not only cease the action you oppose, but lie trembling in their beds, fearing that they are next.

In a totalitarian regime, the people fear the government. In a constitutional republic, the government must fear the people.


Government MUST fear the people. The moment they don't is the moment for Nacht der langen Messer.

--------
“I’ve seen horrors… horrors that you’ve seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that… but you have no right to judge me. It’s impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face… and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn’t see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember… I… I… I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized… like I was shot… like I was shot with a diamond… a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God… the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
Yes a tremendous passage Mark

I do disagree with you on one point
there is no evil in taking pleasure over brutality so long as the cause was just
Prince Vlad staked his enemies in virtual forests
sharpened wood pole up through the shithole and out the mouth...often while they were still breathing and I wager many under his command enjoyed all that.

the Norse were seriously brutal, even wimmins took part

don't get me started on the Celts in England fighting Rome
you meet force with greater force and brutality with greater brutalism

or better yet our Indian Wars
lot of raping on both sides there
scalping, mutilations but all we hear about is the Native devils
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Old July 10, 2019, 22:53   #18
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I do disagree with you on one point
there is no evil in taking pleasure over brutality so long as the cause was just

Well, I disagree. It's the difference between ruthless and cruel. Ruthless has a political objective. Cruel is personal.

I envision myself as an "interrogator". No, my friend, I don't want to pull out your finger nails. It would make me sad. No, I don't want to hook electrodes up to your ball sack. That's gross. But I will. So please tell me what I need to know. Because I will do anything necessary to get the information I need. And it will make sick. And I'll have nightmares. And I'll hate myself. But I'll do it anyway. That is ruthless. Deriving pleasure from it, is cruelty, and sick - and says more about the one inflicting the pain/punishment/retaliation/retribution than it says about the target.


I just want to be left alone. But like Gabrial Martin (Mel Gibson) in "The Patriot", sometimes, folks won't just leave me alone. At which point, I have would have to balance my personal morality with the ruthlessness necessary to MAKE THEM STOP! And I believe Biblical retribution is necessary to make some people stop. Not a "measured response" but like Ender Wiggens in OSC's Enders Game - I had to destroy them completely, so that nobody else will ever think this is a good idea. To serve as a warning to others.
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Old July 10, 2019, 23:33   #19
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Well, I disagree. It's the difference between ruthless and cruel. Ruthless has a political objective. Cruel is personal.

I envision myself as an "interrogator". No, my friend, I don't want to pull out your finger nails. It would make me sad. No, I don't want to hook electrodes up to your ball sack. That's gross. But I will. So please tell me what I need to know. Because I will do anything necessary to get the information I need. And it will make sick. And I'll have nightmares. And I'll hate myself. But I'll do it anyway.

I just want to be left alone. But like Gabrial Martin (Mel Gibson) in "The Patriot", sometimes, folks won't just leave me alone. At which point, I have would have to balance my personal morality with the ruthlessness necessary to MAKE THEM STOP!
I respect that, you were candid in response

that said I was never the grand lord inquisitor type with some indifferent demeanor Mark
If someone makes it personal parameters change radically
Had a few guys get all up and over the top over my torture of thieving meth heads from the estate left to me
Well, there was no other way to stop the continuum short of overt brutality
local LEO left me to the task which I did and quite frankly enjoyed
I lost multi thousands
I did extract it somewhat in burned and beaten flesh but only when they were on my property
when I was finished, I released them
pretty much stopped all the shit for months

again I respect you hold some things differently than I
the difference is with me, pushed to extremes I will take pleasure in carving something apart painfully in creating a teaching moment
it's my nature Mark

the other difference is I don't have nightmares nor will I hate myself for doing that necessary thing
rather than duty
I suggest you start viewing these things as part time Hobby friend
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Old July 11, 2019, 01:08   #20
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I'm thinking of Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse now,


It would give me nightmares to kill a bunch of innocent kids. But if doing so established to the Prince that there are certain lines that he may not cross - I'd do it in spades.

You must so terrorize the powers that be, that they not only cease the action you oppose, but lie trembling in their beds, fearing that they are next.




[/I]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.....talking about killing a bunch of kids..AND....doing it..IN SPADES! GP just goes a little further around the bend every year.

And I guess he thinks everyone would just stand back and watch while he does those vile things that his political fantasy books told him to do. Nah, I think one of those kids Daddy's would point a 12 gauge shotgun at ole GP and blow his stupid head clean off.


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Old July 11, 2019, 01:48   #21
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I'm thinking of Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse now, or if you want to go back to Faulkner in the original Heart of Darkness. It's a matter of what one is prepared to do for the desired end. And if your opposition is not fettered by the same societal norms that you are - you lose.*

Similarly, in a FB meme on fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. We had to burn them out , cave by cave, then nuke them twice.

You want to eliminate something, you need to have the ruthlessness to completely eliminate it. It's what I call "bad thought 101" and I've caught some flack for it. Because it involves the slaughter of innocents. But the difference between cruelty and ruthlessness is whether one takes pleasure in it.

While Emerson was speaking of challenging the preeminence of Plato (or Aristotle, I can't remember), the point remains. If you strike at the King (or the Prince, as I choose in a Machiavellian fashion), you must kill the King. Because half measures result in your annihilation.

I love dogs and kids. Grown-ups, not so much. It would give me nightmares to kill a bunch of innocent kids. But if doing so established to the Prince that there are certain lines that he may not cross - I'd do it in spades.

You must so terrorize the powers that be, that they not only cease the action you oppose, but lie trembling in their beds, fearing that they are next.

In a totalitarian regime, the people fear the government. In a constitutional republic, the government must fear the people.


Government MUST fear the people. The moment they don't is the moment for Nacht der langen Messer.

--------
“I’ve seen horrors… horrors that you’ve seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that… but you have no right to judge me. It’s impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face… and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn’t see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember… I… I… I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized… like I was shot… like I was shot with a diamond… a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God… the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”

During episode 3 of Star Wars.....ugh......Anakin wiped out the younglins...that was tough for me to watch....as a school teacher...

I agree with everything you just said.
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Old July 11, 2019, 01:55   #22
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Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.....talking about killing a bunch of kids..AND....doing it..IN SPADES! GP just goes a little further around the bend every year.

And I guess he thinks everyone would just stand back and watch while he does those vile things that his political fantasy books told him to do. Nah, I think one of those kids Daddy's would point a 12 gauge shotgun at ole GP and blow his stupid head clean off.


RSS,,,Gunplumber is speaking about total war,,,and it would quickly become total war here, if anyone ever tried to go house to house collecting firearms.

In war,,,we have rules,,,in survival,,you either survive by any and all means at your disposal,,,or you and yours end up dead and dumped into a ditch.

There are no rules and no third choices,,middle ground,, in a war of survival.

You and yours live or they die.

The problem many people have in this country,,,they can't even envision or even contemplate a war of simple survival.

Many of us can.
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Old July 11, 2019, 05:35   #23
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With this goobery method of destruction, I don't think they could handle a large number of firearms:

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Old July 11, 2019, 05:56   #24
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With this goobery method of destruction, I don't think they could handle a large number of firearms:
What a joke!

They need to go shopping for some cereal!





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Old July 11, 2019, 13:15   #25
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The "King" can destroy a country,,,hell even the whole world,,,but can't really do shit if people just say no,,not going to comply with your silly laws.

Folks in NZ seem to understand this,,folks here as well,,in places like CT,,with a 5 or 6% compliance rate.

How many bumpstocks got turned in????

Chicago is sure gunned up,,,60 shot last week.

The "King" can't stop illegal aliens crossing the border,,,or drug mules,,ban all guns sales in USA,,, Every firearm known to man would simply flow over the borders via the black market.
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Old July 11, 2019, 13:51   #26
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RSS,,,Gunplumber is speaking about total war,,,and it would quickly become total war here, if anyone ever tried to go house to house collecting firearms.

In war,,,we have rules,,,in survival,,you either survive by any and all means at your disposal,,,or you and yours end up dead and dumped into a ditch.

There are no rules and no third choices,,middle ground,, in a war of survival.

You and yours live or they die.

The problem many people have in this country,,,they can't even envision or even contemplate a war of simple survival.

Many of us can.
Threatening to kill someones family and kids etc. is just wishful thinking for him. For one thing it is wrong, and number 2, he forgets that the people he would be going up against are tougher, train harder, and stick together far better than he can dream about after reading The Prince.


One thing I remember him posting a few years back (this subject of total civil breakdown comes up here regularly) was that if his kid needed insulin and someone else had it....he would attack them and take it away at gunpoint. As someone that keeps good stock of medicine...you should take that into account.
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Old July 11, 2019, 14:28   #27
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Threatening to kill someones family and kids etc. is just wishful thinking for him. For one thing it is wrong, and number 2, he forgets that the people he would be going up against are tougher, train harder, and stick together far better than he can dream about after reading The Prince.


One thing I remember him posting a few years back (this subject of total civil breakdown comes up here regularly) was that if his kid needed insulin and someone else had it....he would attack them and take it away at gunpoint. As someone that keeps good stock of medicine...you should take that into account.
RSU,,,,I did post RSS earlier,,sorry about that.

Mark and I,,,many others around here are military trained,,and people like Rangers, SF, Airborne units,,like LRRPs, etc,,,well,,,we were all trained to contemplate various scenarios.

Survival situations,,,the world of right and wrong, decency, humanity are the first to take a hit and be disposed of.

Its easy for most people to say,,,if my child wad dying and needed insulin,,,I would never stick a gun in someones face and take theirs, then allow their child to die.

That may or may not happen in a true survival situation,,,but in most past survival situations, it has happened on a regular basis.

People in bad conditions,,are capable of doing anything, and do them.

In all honesty,,,I really can't think of anything I would not do,,to insure me and mine survived another day. This from crap I've seen and from the reading of accounts of people in this situation.

In the end,,,we're all human and humans react pretty much the same way in bad situations.
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Old July 11, 2019, 14:32   #28
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WWJD? Oh nevermind.
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Old July 11, 2019, 14:34   #29
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WWJD? Oh nevermind.
Very few normal men can live up to that standard.
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Old July 11, 2019, 14:45   #30
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It doesn't take an armed services trained person to commit a crime. All you have to be is a common criminal.
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Old July 11, 2019, 18:35   #31
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It doesn't take an armed services trained person to commit a crime. All you have to be is a common criminal.
Again,,,,I believe you are confusing "normal" times,,,like today,,being discussed,,,with pure "survival" environments possible in the future.

99.999% people reading this,,,would never consider eating roasted rat on a stick today.

Go without a meal for 2 weeks,,,historical accounts,,say people would kill one another over roasted rat on a stick, give it three weeks without food,,,they'd be fighting over "whom" gets eaten among the group.

Circumstances dictate behavior and values.

Men will and have done everything to survive.
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Old July 11, 2019, 19:21   #32
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Men will and have done everything to survive.
That other doucebag is on my ignore list, but you have the right idea.

Most people have never been hungry. They only think that missing a meal, or Fasting for a day is "hunger". They have not been in a situation where their finger nails stops growing, their hair falls out, and all they can think about is eating ANYTHING. The Donner party ate their boots and belts.

I've been through controlled sleep and food deprivation. Even that was only a fraction of what real starvation must like. But it's a hell of a lot more than missing lunch. It changes you. After 58 days of food and sleep deprivation, I was having visual and auditory hallucinations. I watched a Marine captain strip naked and climb a tree talking to his mother. I watched people put quarters in a tree, believing it was a vending machine. I've licked the inside of a catsup packet hoping there was something still there. I ate a 40 year old WWII C rat peanut butter tin I found when digging a slit trench. I fantasized about food - curiously, peanut butter and jelly on cinnamon raisin bread, and Taco bell "Mexican pizza".

And that was under monitored, controlled conditions.

When Iron Maiden said in "The Prisoner"

I'm on the run, I kill to eat
I'm starving now, feelin' dead on my feet
Goin' all the way, I'm nature's beast


They were not far off.

When Papillon (in the older version) was eatring cockroaches off his prison cell floor?

Hunger changes people. I lost 30 pounds from an Olympic "fit" start. I became a compulsive eater. I gained 60+ pounds from my start point - 90 from what I'd become. It took years to recover and eat "normal" again at a normal weight.

In extreme conditions, there is nothing one won't do to survive and protect his family and tribe.
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Old July 11, 2019, 20:10   #33
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Again,,,,I believe you are confusing "normal" times,,,like today,,being discussed,,,with pure "survival" environments possible in the future.

99.999% people reading this,,,would never consider eating roasted rat on a stick today.

Go without a meal for 2 weeks,,,historical accounts,,say people would kill one another over roasted rat on a stick, give it three weeks without food,,,they'd be fighting over "whom" gets eaten among the group.

Circumstances dictate behavior and values.

Men will and have done everything to survive.

Ok. Just don't make the mistake of picking my house when that happens. That feeling of superiority?...…. it's just an emotion, and not based in reality. Don't let it get you into something you can't get out of.
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Old July 11, 2019, 20:13   #34
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After 58 days of food and sleep deprivation, I was having visual and auditory hallucinations that I never recovered from.


Fixed it for you.
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Old July 11, 2019, 23:21   #35
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That other doucebag is on my ignore list, but you have the right idea.

Most people have never been hungry. They only think that missing a meal, or Fasting for a day is "hunger". They have not been in a situation where their finger nails stops growing, their hair falls out, and all they can think about is eating ANYTHING. The Donner party ate their boots and belts.

I've been through controlled sleep and food deprivation. Even that was only a fraction of what real starvation must like. But it's a hell of a lot more than missing lunch. It changes you. After 58 days of food and sleep deprivation, I was having visual and auditory hallucinations. I watched a Marine captain strip naked and climb a tree talking to his mother. I watched people put quarters in a tree, believing it was a vending machine. I've licked the inside of a catsup packet hoping there was something still there. I ate a 40 year old WWII C rat peanut butter tin I found when digging a slit trench. I fantasized about food - curiously, peanut butter and jelly on cinnamon raisin bread, and Taco bell "Mexican pizza".

And that was under monitored, controlled conditions.

When Iron Maiden said in "The Prisoner"

I'm on the run, I kill to eat
I'm starving now, feelin' dead on my feet
Goin' all the way, I'm nature's beast


They were not far off.

When Papillon (in the older version) was eatring cockroaches off his prison cell floor?

Hunger changes people. I lost 30 pounds from an Olympic "fit" start. I became a compulsive eater. I gained 60+ pounds from my start point - 90 from what I'd become. It took years to recover and eat "normal" again at a normal weight.

In extreme conditions, there is nothing one won't do to survive and protect his family and tribe.
Most if not all "normal" people will never be able to understand this,,until they are put through it themselves.

I went 9 days once,,,without a single bit to eat, 20 prior days,,on greatly reduced food intake,,we missed our supply drops.

We could hardly move when we got back in,,,not really sure where I was for a few days afterwards.

Came fully too,,,in a ward,,IV;s hanging everywhere,,looking at a pretty nurse holding a cup of coffee.

Was worthless for several weeks after that,,,just hungry all the time. Started hiding food in my room. Pockets were always full of something to eat. An old Black mess Sgt made sure I had something hot to eat,,,all the time,,, for months afterwards.

Most normal people simply will never understand.
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Old July 11, 2019, 23:34   #36
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Ok. Just don't make the mistake of picking my house when that happens. That feeling of superiority?...…. it's just an emotion, and not based in reality. Don't let it get you into something you can't get out of.

Just a thought,,,for what its worth.

IF or when things go really bad,,,,don't sleep or stay near in any house for any length of time.

Houses have "stuff" in them,,people "want" that stuff,,far safer to stay kinda close by to your supplies,,,but sleep, eat, shit,,away from built up areas, away from your main supplies,, off trials and tracks,,,with decent vantage points and some effective cover.

It would take about 10 trained men to provide "decent" protection for a small home for a few weeks.
And thats only,,,, if its 100% fully self contained.
Go outside for anything,,make a mistake and expose yourself,,you'd just die.
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Old July 11, 2019, 23:46   #37
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https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a624108.pdf

Sounds like a call for another bad hand McKenzie
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Old July 12, 2019, 01:28   #38
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https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a624108.pdf

Sounds like a call for another bad hand McKenzie
That's a really good read,,,thanks for posting it.
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Old July 12, 2019, 07:08   #39
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Yes, Mackenzie really did turn the tide against the Comanche. I've enjoyed reading about his exploits before. My thanks as well to 0302 for that link!
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Old July 12, 2019, 07:49   #40
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https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer.../dp/1416591060

...related media

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Old July 12, 2019, 08:11   #41
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First confiscation circus is this weekend in Christchurch. We'll see who actually turns up.
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Old July 12, 2019, 08:12   #42
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Re: TenTea's suggestion.

^^^^Highly recommended.
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Old July 12, 2019, 09:11   #43
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Old July 12, 2019, 11:16   #44
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We have a growing number of "no go" areas here in the states,,where in peace time,,local police, people in power simply won't venture into,,held by a small number of wonky criminals.

How much of this country would become a "no go" area,,,if even just 10,15,20% of the normal population, took "serious" offense at anyone coming into their areas to do the "king's bidding"???

As criminal "no go areas" show daily,,,only takes a tiny % of a total population to back off all the King's men.
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Old July 12, 2019, 12:35   #45
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And I agree, the bridge has not yet come. But I think back to Thomas Paine.

I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.
once in awhile you do redeem yourself by posting something wonderful, and remind me how much in common with a savage i can have, but then, my DNA and a chimpanzee's are 99.5% identical, so an ape like you can't be much further away...do you have grandchildren to be concerned for, mark? i have 3 grandsons that are made in my image.
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The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:05   #46
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i have 3 grandsons that are made in my image.
Let's hope not - last thing we need is more racist shithead blowhards.
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:06   #47
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Word.
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:16   #48
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Just a thought,,,for what its worth.

IF or when things go really bad,,,,don't sleep or stay near in any house for any length of time.

Houses have "stuff" in them,,people "want" that stuff,,far safer to stay kinda close by to your supplies,,,but sleep, eat, shit,,away from built up areas, away from your main supplies,, off trials and tracks,,,with decent vantage points and some effective cover.

It would take about 10 trained men to provide "decent" protection for a small home for a few weeks.
And thats only,,,, if its 100% fully self contained.
Go outside for anything,,make a mistake and expose yourself,,you'd just die.
If someone wants me dead, I'm dead. But, there is far lower hanging fruit than me for criminals to go after.
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:17   #49
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Let's hope not - last thing we need is more racist shithead blowhards.
again, the same attack against the person, rather than the argument. a sure sign of a weak mind.
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Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:28   #50
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again, the same attack against the person, rather than the argument. a sure sign of a weak mind.
I'm not "attacking" you (you poor thing) - I'm merely pointing out that the world will be a better place if your progeny are not also ignorant, racist, blowhard, shitheads. That kind of bullshit needs to die with you and your ilk.
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T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
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