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Old April 15, 2018, 23:56   #1
Cossack
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Recommend a good 1st Flintlock

I've got the muzzleloader bug, and it's gotta be a flintlock. It also has to be a long rifle or other full stock design. Any recommendations on a good value? I'd use it for hunting (mostly deer), targets, and general powder burning.

I've been eyeballing the Pedersoli line, particularly the "Frontier," which is sold by Cabela's as the "Blue Ridge" for $650 (with free shipping at the moment). I like the lines, the long barrel, and the reviews I've read. I've also been eyeing the Tennesee Valley Muzzleloading "Poor Boy" Tennessee Rifle, which is over $400 more. If I can explore this project for less money, I'll prefer to, but I don't want to buy a gun that will just frustrate me (or an ugly gun ).

I'm not ruling out a kit build, but I'd feel better cutting my teeth on a gun that's already built. I also love smoothbore guns, like military muskets and the Fusil de Chasse, but I think it would be prudent to start hunting with a rifle and become proficient before I challenge myself with a smoothbore.

The only percussion guns I might consider are European Military styles like the 53 Enfield, but I'm really much more interested in a flintlock. Montana doesn't have a Muzzleloader season, so the only real incentive for me is the connection to history, so even though other muzzleloader designs might be more efficient, I'm not really interested. I want it old fashioned and purty. American Long Rifles, military style rifled muskets, trade guns...

So with that in mind, can anyone offer recommendations? What are good options for a reliable, attractive flinter with a full length wooden stock and a reasonably authentic historical aesthetic and function? What do I need to know about and keep in mind?

Don't worry - I won't hunt with anything that I haven't learned and practiced to proficiency.
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Old April 16, 2018, 00:56   #2
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Flintlocks are a lot of fun. Stick with real black powder since the substitutes do not ignite reliably in "rock-lock" actions. I rediscovered some of the pure joy of shooting when I got back into black powder in general, and flintlocks in particular. A lot of my smokeless rifles (even my one remaining FAL) are gathering dust these days while I'm out shooting the charcoal burners. In regards to the gun makes you are considering:

I bought a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken and didn't care for it. The thing that killed it for me was the "browned" finish on the barrel which was actually some sort of painted finish, complete with lint particles throughout! Not a true rust brown as the ads would lead you to believe. I sold it at a loss and bought a flintlock Tennessee rifle built by John Bergmann. Although about 2x the cost of the Hawken, it is a keeper with deep rust brown finish and a beautiful maple stock with a loose, lazy curl the full length of the rifle. Buy once, cry once as they say.

Don't know much about TVM but looks like they offer a decent product. A friend of mine is looking at rifle kits by Jim Kibler that appear to be high quality although I haven't handled one. Track of the Wolf has quite a few new and used black powder long guns. Although you will pay more for a semi-custom or custom gun, you may find it a better investment and if craftsmanship is important to you, probably the way to go. Good luck on your quest. Choose wisely and you will hopefully not be disappointed as I was with the Pedersoli.
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Old April 16, 2018, 09:26   #3
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Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders.
I built a flintlock rifle (not from a kit)
Lots of work, and I could have bought one and came out ahead.
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Old April 16, 2018, 09:38   #4
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Well if you decide towards an Enfield I would pass on anything that was not Parker Hale UK built from back in the 70s. If you are inclined toward a vintage English made Parker Hale Enfield we have at least one Musketoon as well as .450 Henry & Whitworth bored variants in current stock
Yeah I'm into these things.

On flinters it just depends...

The Poor Boys are great guns
Italian guns are hit and miss when it comes to frizzen hardness particularly Pedersoli.

Long rifles look very cool however they are a pain to carry
Have an older Uberti presentation long tom, fully carved butt, lovely gun...wimmins, they seem to love that thing but it's just a real PITA, won't fit in most safes or cases.

I'd urge you toward a Harpers Ferry 1803 model
Euroarms makes or at least made one
These were a very unique military rifle
Half stocked, .54, brass mounted with a "Kentucky" style patch box
they were really more of a sporting styled rifle than military.

Another would be custom Trade guns with rifled bores.

Back to the Enfields, some points friend:

In the 70s Parker Hale was totally English built, just extreme quality guns
Later they discontinued the Black powder lines and they started being manufactured in Italy with English barrels and sold through Navy Arms
Current guns are completely Italian
You are MUCH further ahead buying a vintage English rifle than anything else, as a rule the higher quality UK mfg guns are often no more expensive than the Italian crap.

Musketoons are shorter carbines in .577 with a progressive bore
Two banders have rather more conventional rifling

Then there are the premium Volunteer guns which came in either Alexander Henry or Whitworth Hex bore rifling.
The Volunteers are factory checkered at the wrist & forend.

I advise most folks forget about these, particularly Whitworths
First of all they are very high pressure slug guns
You will flame cut all factory nipples in under 50 shots
Understand, they were designed to use only Platinum lined nipples, none of the repros come with these and while you can have them custom made in the UK the cost is crazy high. Try like close to a hundred bucks for a damn nipple !

Henry bored guns are easy to cast for
Whitworths close to impossible. There was only one decent mold being made by a smith in Denmark. Close to $300 when they were available. The Dyson molds suck doggie dicks
only other option is Corbin swaging dies

Whitworths require bore swabbing every 3 or 4 shots

Now the flip side ?
You can accurately engage shit well out to 1000 yards, even further.
It used to be fun as hell besting folks with Shiloh Sharps at long range shoots back in the 90s with my Henry bored Volunteer
tuned, dialed in and fitted with better sights those guns hold their own.
Just understand they are Specialist weapons and should be regarded as such.

During the rebellion there were recorded kills well in excess of 1000 yards by Whitworths with rather crude optical sights, a number during the siege of Vicksburg.
Not simply lucky shots either
feats that were not duplicated for nearly a century in military service

Listen to what Will posted as well
Custom builds using American bits by a qualified American smith are light years beyond imports, top to bottom better guns
thing is a quality "kit" isn't cheap, often the parts alone are over a grand.
High end builders generally start over a grand in labor. I was a rather basic gun maker and you could not get me to build a rifle for under $800 with your parts in the mid 90s

American made poor boys are seriously basic guns & they are still costly contrasted to Italian things

Honestly I'd start you off with an older TC Hawken flinter
often BP is much like excerise equipment for our ladies
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Old April 16, 2018, 10:12   #5
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Originally Posted by Cossack View Post
I've got the muzzleloader bug, and it's gotta be a flintlock. It also has to be a long rifle or other full stock design. Any recommendations on a good value? I'd use it for hunting (mostly deer), targets, and general powder burning.

I've been eyeballing the Pedersoli line, particularly the "Frontier," which is sold by Cabela's as the "Blue Ridge" for $650 (with free shipping at the moment). I like the lines, the long barrel, and the reviews I've read. I've also been eyeing the Tennesee Valley Muzzleloading "Poor Boy" Tennessee Rifle, which is over $400 more. If I can explore this project for less money, I'll prefer to, but I don't want to buy a gun that will just frustrate me (or an ugly gun ).

I'm not ruling out a kit build, but I'd feel better cutting my teeth on a gun that's already built. I also love smoothbore guns, like military muskets and the Fusil de Chasse, but I think it would be prudent to start hunting with a rifle and become proficient before I challenge myself with a smoothbore.

*

So with that in mind, can anyone offer recommendations? What are good options for a reliable, attractive flinter with a full length wooden stock and a reasonably authentic historical aesthetic and function? What do I need to know about and keep in mind?

Don't worry - I won't hunt with anything that I haven't learned and practiced to proficiency.
I'm going to work backwards from your endstate to a suggested starting point

1) Based on your screenname "Cossack", you have an affinity for Russian weapons? Take a look at this Crimean War-era kit
http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pa...arms/(784).htm

2) Prior to that, take a look at this 1825 Russian TULA rifle
http://www.aagaines.com/inventory/tularifle.html

It's a knockoff of the French Charleville. So was our Springfield M1795 onwards, although they were smoothbore up until around the time of the Mexican War when it became popular to rifle them.

Pedersoli does good reproductions, but you're going to bleed cash - see http://www.cherrys.com/ped_rif1.htm Scroll down to the Austrian copy of the Charleville - close to the Russian, you can always knock it down and ship the barrel off to be rifled (

3) "Time spent in reconnaissance is never wasted". Better answers and deals can be found on other forums.

Go to these places, register and poke around some.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php
Occassional deals on rifled flintlock muzzleloaders here
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/forumd...For-Sale-Items

Hope this helps.






Bookmark TRACK OF THE WOLF - good place for used bargains
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/New/1
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Old April 16, 2018, 10:47   #6
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I'm going to work backwards from your endstate to a suggested starting point

1) Based on your screenname "Cossack", you have an affinity for Russian weapons? Take a look at this Crimean War-era kit
http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pa...arms/(784).htm

2) Prior to that, take a look at this 1825 Russian TULA rifle
http://www.aagaines.com/inventory/tularifle.html

It's a knockoff of the French Charleville. So was our Springfield M1795 onwards, although they were smoothbore up until around the time of the Mexican War when it became popular to rifle them.

Pedersoli does good reproductions, but you're going to bleed cash - see http://www.cherrys.com/ped_rif1.htm Scroll down to the Austrian copy of the Charleville - close to the Russian, you can always knock it down and ship the barrel off to be rifled (

3) "Time spent in reconnaissance is never wasted". Better answers and deals can be found on other forums.

Go to these places, register and poke around some.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php
Occassional deals on rifled flintlock muzzleloaders here
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/forumd...For-Sale-Items

Hope this helps.






Bookmark TRACK OF THE WOLF - good place for used bargains
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/New/1
couple more points:

The Rifle Shoppe is dead slow on many products
off the wall stuff can be a two year wait to bring into the casting que
very very little is stocked.

Track has a used page, not many bargains though. Trust me, if it's cheap there is a reason why. I have known these folks for YEARS, items by top shelf makers are never much under build cost.
We have a number of makers in MN, quite a number are old Hippie types, some barely turn out 3 or 4 rifles a year between jugs of homemade wine, a few just one or two that spend a couple hours weekly gun making. Too busy chasing their free range chickens & homeschooling.
or doing Church things

I sometimes get decent buys on customs at shows
even those are far between
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Old April 16, 2018, 11:06   #7
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What about originals? Should they be used for shooting?
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Old April 16, 2018, 11:47   #8
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I know the purists would have trouble with owning one, but I passed up a T/C .45 flint lock at the Tulsa show last week. It was like new and could have been had for $375
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Old April 16, 2018, 18:06   #9
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Thanks folks! I'll head on over to the muzzleloading sites and check around. I keep getting Kibler recommendations, and they sure look fine. That option sounds like the best way to do a first kit - a little less to screw up than some.

I appreciate the advice regarding prices and models.

Story, you read me right - I'm a Russian arms and history junkie as well as Napoleonic enthusiast, and I'm very interested in your links. I already liked the idea of getting a repro Charleville and perhaps turning it into a copy of a Russian 1808, and even considered the idea of getting it rifled. I didn't know about the historical precedent of a rifled variant in Russian service until you sent that link. Thanks for that. however, considering cost and availability, I'll probably start out with a purpose-built rifle for the first one, then try out a Charleville project if the bug doesn't leave me alone.
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Old April 17, 2018, 07:58   #10
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I already liked the idea of getting a repro Charleville and perhaps turning it into a copy of a Russian 1808, and even considered the idea of getting it rifled. I didn't know about the historical precedent of a rifled variant in Russian service until you sent that link. Thanks for that. however, considering cost and availability, I'll probably start out with a purpose-built rifle for the first one, then try out a Charleville project if the bug doesn't leave me alone.
As I understand it, the Russian Jaeger units might have had their own short rifle but the M1805 was modified. See
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...nfantry-Musket

Go through the old catalogs here, I'll bet something has already surfaced that'll bug you.
https://www.hermann-historica.de/en

You'll eventually want a brace of pistols. http://russianrevolvers.com/rp1a.html

PS - you should check out http://www.crazycrow.com/site/event/...an-rendezvous/
Grow out your beard, make an ushanka out of a thrift store raccoon coat and when you're ready to shoot, show up as a friend of Alexander Andreyevich Baranov.

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Old April 18, 2018, 06:09   #11
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There are a lot of builders out there. Like RSS says, they only build 3 or 4 a year. The reason is not that we are out chasing our chickens. The reason is, you can't make a living from it, so we have full time jobs as well. We use hand tools, not c+c machines. It takes approx. 80 hours of our time, to turn out the rifle, then you have time on top of that , spent watching the oil finish dry. If you want to PM me, I'd be glad to spend some time talking with you about what you want.
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Old April 24, 2018, 22:53   #12
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Story, thanks for those links. I think I'm going to drag my wife to the Crazy Crow Rendezvous - I haven't done any sort of rendezvous since I was a teenager. My old scout leader was very enthusiastic mountain man.

The Russian gun links are great and very informative. thank you very much!

1769, I might still get in touch with you. Thanks for the offer. I've been busy wearing out my welcome at a couple of the muzzleloading sites this past week and learned a lot and been in touch with several builders.

Since wasting too much time this past week reading about this, I've narrowed down my preferences a bit: I want a custom or semi-custom (like TVM or Tip Curtis) long rifle. I'm pretty sure I want a Lancaster or Bucks County style (or similar). I haven't totally ruled out a southern/Tennessee style, but am leaning more towards Pennsylvania colonial styles. I want a swamped barrel, but am still hmming and hawing over length: 38" or 42" (or longer!). I know I'd take a .54, but I don't think I'd walk away from a .50 caliber that was otherwise right. I'm most likely only going to hunt deer and pronghorns with it anyway. I'd have to be very confident with myself and my gun before I go after Elk, and I'd have to find a good spot. I have a hard enough time getting a decent shot at them with my .30-06. It'll mostly be riverbottom whitetails.

I've chatted with a few custom makers, TVM, and Tip Curtis (on the phone). I've had quotes from just under $1200 for a TN Poor Boy Style to $1600 for a nicer wood Lancaster county gun (and of course, plenty in the $2K+ range). That's all for simple guns with no major ornamentation. Looking at a few used options as well.

I'll keep you posted! I'm trying to be patient and wait until I find just the right one, while still giving myself time to get to know my gun before next fall.
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Old April 24, 2018, 23:21   #13
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The Flintlock I built was basically a hodgepodge of design features, basically tried to go for the lines of a 1730-1750 (French&Indian War) rifle.
I did the whole "cast off", cut and shaped the stock for my Length of Pull and Drop, etc.
I used a 1" (across the flats) 42" long .50 cal barrel, Siler lock, Single Set Trigger, all German Silver furniture and inlays. It was a HEAVY (nearly 14 lbs) rifle, but I was in good enough physical condition that it didn't bother me.
At the time, I was big into competition shooting, both in the Military and Civilian side. I was in a 1700s reenactment group, and that was my match rifle.

Now, due to injuries, I can't use a rifle like that (and no longer participate in reenactments).
I'm in the process of designing another rifle, basically the same style but with much less thickness and a 7/8" swamped barrel, which should weigh less than 8 lbs.

So, there are lots of options available, depending on your needs/wants/desires.
Also, you will need to decide whether you are gonna shoot Round Balls or Bullets, as this will affect the Rifling Twist you need.
If you want,PM me for my number; I love muzzle loaders, and will gladly help in any way I can!

P.S., if you order a custom gun, you can save a good deal of money if you order it without a finish. (Like a couple of hundred dollars.)
It takes longer for the finish to dry than it takes to apply it. I can also walk you through this process If needed.
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Old April 25, 2018, 01:37   #14
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Btw, the guy who founded (&later sold) TVM, Jack Garner, is still making some Top Notch Flintlocks! He's located in the Corinth, MS area.
If you're interested, I will get his number for you.
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Old April 30, 2018, 04:12   #15
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My own First Flinter was/is a T/C .54 Hawken-type which I glommed at a local pawnbroker for $100 and the guy thought I was doing HIM a favor cuz it had been there for some time apparently. I understand that T/C didnt sell a lot of the Hawken flinters as there was some discussion about the historicity of the Hawken bros actually selling any flintlocks. However that may be, T/C did a good job making my rifle.. it has functioned well and have never regretted buying it... it will be one item sure to be in my "estate" when that time comes.
There are fancier, more gussied-up or original-looking plains rifles and "Hawkens" but for the BP shooting I do it serves me well and matches the .54 T/C caplock "Hawken" on my wall...
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Old May 01, 2018, 06:51   #16
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I know the purists would have trouble with owning one, but I passed up a T/C .45 flint lock at the Tulsa show last week. It was like new and could have been had for $375
Now I'm REALLY glad I didn't go. I'd be down 375 fo sho!

Not a thing wrong with T/C (at least the old ones).

I bought a bunch of parts a few years ago and remodeled my Renegade with a maple stock, and some traditional parts from Track of the Wolf, also 34" Green Mountain barrel. It's a caplock, and a deer and hog exterminator.

BP rifles can be evolving projects....
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Old May 01, 2018, 19:14   #17
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Btw, the guy who founded (&later sold) TVM, Jack Garner, is still making some Top Notch Flintlocks! He's located in the Corinth, MS area.
If you're interested, I will get his number for you.
Thanks for the tip. I've emailed Jack Garner.
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Old May 01, 2018, 22:35   #18
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Thanks for the tip. I've emailed Jack Garner.
Most of the guys I used to do reenactments with use "Garner Guns" for competition and hunting. Most have 3 or more of them
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Old May 09, 2018, 20:23   #19
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Most of the guys I used to do reenactments with use "Garner Guns" for competition and hunting. Most have 3 or more of them
They are nice, he built my .62 steel trimmed Jaeger, my favorite flinter. My favorite front stuffer though is one of the Euroarms .451 Henry rifled Volunteer rifles. That's one shooting SOB! If you can find one, with good sights, they will shoot farther than you can.
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Old May 10, 2018, 07:14   #20
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My wife gave me a full-stock 'Hatfield' .50 flintlock years ago for Christmas. Beautiful curly maple stock! I believe it was made by Pedriocelli and sold under the Hatfield name. They still can be had used if you just do a search.
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Old May 10, 2018, 08:42   #21
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Not sure if anyone mentioned the most important thing when buying a smoke pole is the rifling twist rate. It depends on what you will be shooting out of it.
For round ball, which I shoot in my custom built 54 cal. Flinch Lock Lyman Trade Rifle built by a fellow by the name of Vernon Forns #13, a twist rate of 1 in 66 inches is the ticket. The reason for the slow twist is because the soft lead balls will trip the rifling if the twist rate is faster. The bearing surface is minimal with a round ball. The 1 in 66 inch twist is plenty for a round ball and my rifle is more accurate than I will ever be.
Thomson and others build theirs with 1 in 48 inch twist and it works well for conical bullets but not so much for round ball. In my .50 cal. Cap Lock Thompson I keep the load a bit on the low side and it works well enough. For conical bullets it is pretty awesome.
As for myself I really like the Lyman Trade Rifle, it fits me and is historically accurate for the early 1800s fur trade era. Price range last time I looked you can get a new factory built one for around 6 to 7 hundred U.S. Dollars. Not sure if they are even making them any more.
A custom built rifle by a reputable maker is an avenue I would pursue if I was in the market. You can have it fitted just for you and the twist rate you want.
Dixie Gun Works is another source for muzzle loaders.
Keep us posted!
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Old May 10, 2018, 18:21   #22
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I would find a local group of muzzle loaders and hang around them. One of the old gents might have something he will part with. I say old gent because does anybody much under 60 shoot these things? I am close, late 50s and own several, but don't actually shoot them.
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Old May 10, 2018, 18:56   #23
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I would find a local group of muzzle loaders and hang around them. One of the old gents might have something he will part with. I say old gent because does anybody much under 60 shoot these things? I am close, late 50s and own several, but don't actually shoot them.
Easy there, I've got about a bakers dozen and I'm not even 30. There are a few of us who appreciate the Holy black
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Old May 10, 2018, 21:22   #24
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Easy there, I've got about a bakers dozen and I'm not even 30. There are a few of us who appreciate the Holy black

I got my first muzzle loading rifle at 9, cap and ball revolver at 15,started competitive black powder shooting mid 20s (absent a few years for active duty), now mid 40s and have a few.

You don't have to be old to appreciate the finer things in life.
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Old May 22, 2018, 22:09   #25
davedude
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Lots of good advice here. I'll just throw this out there as I didn't see it covered.
My first flinter was built by a amateur gunmaker from a kit bought at:
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/tulle.shtml
A left hand tulle fusil de Chasse in .62 cal smoothbore. It was done well and I love it.
Another place to drool over long rifles is Dixie Gun Works.
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/...15/name/Flint/
Look for quality locks, siler and l&r come to mind. I bought a .62 cal French dragoon flint pistol from a Canuck outfit that I believe was made in India or Pakistan. The lock really suks. It works but is very rough and has about a thirty pound trigger pull.
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Old May 23, 2018, 21:57   #26
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Thanks Dave. I decided to start with a rifle, but I really would like to get a smoothbore eventually, and I think the Fusil de Chasse style is the most appealing so far. Glad to hear the good report about Pecatonica River Supply.

I decided to go with a Lancaster style rifle in .54. I'm having a maker in VA, Kent Smith (Augusta Forge Longrifles) build it for me. He offered a fair but not suspiciously low price for a simple no-frills rifle. It has been promised by early July.

Now I keep thinking I should also have a squirrel caliber gun to share with the kids to punch paper and whack gophers. They're all over the drive home...

PS - I am still well under 60, too.
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Old May 24, 2018, 04:57   #27
davedude
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Very nice Cossack dude you are going to love that rifle, looking very excellent to me. That is something on my list too, a flint rifle. My BP rifles are all caplocks.
But I do like my smoothbore flinter. I can load a big 320g round ball or load it with shot so it has some versatility.
A squirrel rifle is on my list also.
Post a follow up maybe after you receive and test the Lancaster? Would love to see it.
I'll be 60 this year and seem to have more interest in nice BP repo's than anything else these days.
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Old May 24, 2018, 07:36   #28
Ted Kennedy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cossack View Post
Thanks Dave. I decided to start with a rifle, but I really would like to get a smoothbore eventually, and I think the Fusil de Chasse style is the most appealing so far. Glad to hear the good report about Pecatonica River Supply.

I decided to go with a Lancaster style rifle in .54. I'm having a maker in VA, Kent Smith (Augusta Forge Longrifles) build it for me. He offered a fair but not suspiciously low price for a simple no-frills rifle. It has been promised by early July.

Now I keep thinking I should also have a squirrel caliber gun to share with the kids to punch paper and whack gophers. They're all over the drive home...

PS - I am still well under 60, too.
Awesome! You plan on killin' deer/hogs with it?
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Old May 24, 2018, 07:48   #29
Cossack
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Awesome! You plan on killin' deer/hogs with it?
Deer for sure, probably pronghorn and maybe an elk someday if I get daring. I still haven't killed an elk with a modern rifle, so I can't say I'll ever get around to using a muzzleloader (especially since we don't have a special muzzleloader season in MT - just archery and modern, so MLs have to be used in the modern season).

We don't have hogs up here, but if I ever travel south I might bring it along.
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Old May 24, 2018, 09:19   #30
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Originally Posted by Cossack View Post
Thanks Dave. I decided to start with a rifle, but I really would like to get a smoothbore eventually, and I think the Fusil de Chasse style is the most appealing so far. Glad to hear the good report about Pecatonica River Supply.

I decided to go with a Lancaster style rifle in .54. I'm having a maker in VA, Kent Smith (Augusta Forge Longrifles) build it for me. He offered a fair but not suspiciously low price for a simple no-frills rifle. It has been promised by early July.

Now I keep thinking I should also have a squirrel caliber gun to share with the kids to punch paper and whack gophers. They're all over the drive home...

PS - I am still well under 60, too.

You CAN just get the maker to set up a small caliber barrel while he's making your rifle.
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Old May 24, 2018, 09:24   #31
sniperdoc
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Originally Posted by davedude View Post
Very nice Cossack dude you are going to love that rifle, looking very excellent to me. That is something on my list too, a flint rifle. My BP rifles are all caplocks.
But I do like my smoothbore flinter. I can load a big 320g round ball or load it with shot so it has some versatility.
A squirrel rifle is on my list also.
Post a follow up maybe after you receive and test the Lancaster? Would love to see it.
I'll be 60 this year and seem to have more interest in nice BP repo's than anything else these days.
Out to 75 yards, you can't really tell the difference in accuracy between a rifle and a smoothbore anyway.
And a flintlock smoothbore is the ULTIMATE survival gun! You can shoot anything from lead balls to gravel.
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Old June 05, 2018, 05:05   #32
Jawele
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While my preference would be to get a rifle from a "gun stocker" (one who buys parts and assembles a rifle) I know not everyone is in an area where these can be found, or prefers to handle the gun before buying, thus no internet sales. While I like Pedersoli cartridge guns, I'm not impressed with their MZ line. Of your eyeballed guns, I'd go with the TVM. Lighter, better fit and worth the extra money.
https://www.jimkibler.net/kit-gun-gallery.html

Jim's gun kits are almost plug and play. Easy for someone with a little skill to put together and dress up as they wish. Flintlock, authentic, quality parts and a canvas on which to express yourself! OK that got a little deep.

Whatever way you go, take your time, look around and check out some of the MZ forums. They all have "For Sale" areas and often they have very good deals.
Good luck and ask questions that you might have.
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Old June 06, 2018, 08:42   #33
davedude
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Originally Posted by Jawele View Post
While my preference would be to get a rifle from a "gun stocker" (one who buys parts and assembles a rifle) I know not everyone is in an area where these can be found, or prefers to handle the gun before buying, thus no internet sales. While I like Pedersoli cartridge guns, I'm not impressed with their MZ line. Of your eyeballed guns, I'd go with the TVM. Lighter, better fit and worth the extra money.
https://www.jimkibler.net/kit-gun-gallery.html

Jim's gun kits are almost plug and play. Easy for someone with a little skill to put together and dress up as they wish. Flintlock, authentic, quality parts and a canvas on which to express yourself! OK that got a little deep.

Whatever way you go, take your time, look around and check out some of the MZ forums. They all have "For Sale" areas and often they have very good deals.
Good luck and ask questions that you might have.
Thanks for posting that link!
All his locks are on the wrong side. Wonder if he can do lefty? I will ask. It's kinda necessary with a flinter. Caplocks not so much but I do have two left hand TC Renegades, one .50 and one .54. my RH Italian repro Zouave is a joy to shoot. Take a bucket full of 500g minie balls and shoot all day.
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