good shoot or bad shoot?

[0302]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27a_1492642668

i vote good. erkel reached in pocket after police chase, prettttty dumb.

[HighRatMaster]

Fuuck no. He was just an old goober straightening out his jimmy or something, I didn't see any threat at all. Dumb, yes but real cops are aware of goober tactics.

[sgt.stinky]

Hard one to call, glad i wasn't the that guy who had to make a split second decision

[chino*74]

The guy was acting very spastic. He gets out of his vehicle & immediately starts moving his arms quickly behind him, in front of him, grabbing for his pocket, sorry but he pretty much did a text book everything he should not have done.

[EPC WN]

Did they find a piece on the guy? Could have been trying to get out his heart meds. Looks like a case if premature ejaculation. Ain't cut and dry but unless you see a piece I'm of the mind you can't shoot otherwise no threat has been established...

[308/223shooter]

Looked to me as if the object in his right front pocket, was his wallet. Which is what the LEO removed and opened, before calling in the victims name.

[Captain Steinbrenner]

Sorry, but I'm not second guessing somebody that has to take a life or death decision in a split second.

[308/223shooter]

Originally Posted by Captain Steinbrenner

Sorry, but I'm not second guessing somebody that has to take a life or death decision in a split second.

I'm not either, however, if that was you or I who killed that man, we'd be in jail looking at manslaughter in the least. I understand LEO's have a shitty job most of the time, and the fear that comes with it, but even if he had a 9X19, did he really need to dump what, 8 or 9 rounds into the guy, including while he was laying on the ground?

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by Captain Steinbrenner

Sorry, but I'm not second guessing somebody that has to take a life or death decision in a split second.

That's the thing, the life or death decision never presented itself as such. Looks like a terrified old man to me. If the guy wants his ID where is that usually kept? I just don't see how you can shoot unless a weapon is visible and directed at you. Especially if you've already gotten the draw on em.

[Retired Bum]

All I could hear was the siren and then shots being fired. No verbal warning to stay in the vehicle or once he was out to keep his hands down to his sides.

IMHO the cop or cops who shot the man over reacted but I can see why they did open fire. Glad I wasn't that man or the cop who shot him. Bad scene all the way around.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

[0302]

by new mex standards he was a goner - plaid shorts? really.

[gordonm1]

I didn't see a threat and I don't think there was one. Cops can take cover and be defensive if they are scared.

[Riversidesports]

Sorry Sports Fans...

1st the vid States he turned out to be unarmed.
You don't get to shoot people because of nut scratching, whatever.

2nd...little piglet was in a total freakout mode.
Any rational human can see that with him sinking to his knees, etc. in the aftermath. Shit he hadn't even established death and he was shitting his frilly panties.
He finally does a quick neck pulse check...no way he was able to tell the Man was dead on that.
then again he's a cop with spechul Jedi/Vulcan training right ?

AWFUL shooting all around, asshole has no business being armed...much less in LE from the perspective of the recording.

Big part of the problem is training.
Currently it's gone reactive to movement

If the "suspect" doesn't react according to how piglet trainers figure folks should react you shoot.
Thing is you just can not figure any consistancy in human conduct, too many factors to just randomly deploy deadly force.

See a piece coming out then shoot the guy dead
Cop already had the gun deployed obviously

Ask yourself WHY the pistol was already deployed
We don't know that other than the victim failed to stop initially. BTW that is a good enough reason in it's self for me.
not yet a decent reason to go all Rambo though. No indication of any deadly intent.
understand I'd give the cop a pass if the victim came out fast from the back pocket with his wallet. No time to think much. That's not what I see here.

What I see is a police officer in complete panic

post shooting he should have secured his victim then immediately called in EMS. Nope dummy is on his knees then holding his fat noggin..."Oh WTF Did I Do" response.

My best guess they issued him a damn Glock, he was wound up with bad training...had his finger on the trigger and spazzed, we call it Buck Fever

Again many in LE should only be issued double action only pistols until they pass a very high level of qualification
many never will...

[AZ Dave]

The first shot or two maybe but the rest were not justified.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

We weren't there so we don't know what led up to the shots being fired. How long had the chase gone on? Did the guy being chased endanger civilian or officers lives during the chase? Emotions must have been running high for the officer in order for him to be so quick to shoot. Taking someones life is not a trifling decision, the distance between the two vehicles (and the two individuals) appears to me to give the advantage to the cop if he had waited before popping the guy. Again, we weren't there...

[AZ Dave]

We don't know what happened before but the guy had already submitted after the first shot and definitely the second. All the rest were overkill....literally. Cops have a tough job but they know that when they pin the badge on. I could never be a teacher in public schools because I would end up slapping some spoiled punk so I will never go there. Cops have the best opportunity to stomp on the constitutional rights of citizens. They need to be properly vetted and bounced out if they screw up....

[Jolly Rodgers]

I'm not going to second guess the officer. He clearly demonstrated that he realized it was a bad shoot.

[Bertellione]

If I were on the jury as if it would ever go to jury I would vote to fry the little piggy. If it were one shot I would be able to be on the line of justifiable or not.
1) why did the officer keep the sirens blaring? The suspect would never be able to clearly hear a command.
2) after the 1st shot the man went down, but continued a mag dump.
3) after the man went down as soon as he hit the ground his hands were on his head and with both hands covering his head the officer kept unloading.

That officer deserves to fry. If I shoot a home intruder armed or not in the back they would fry me. The officer chose his job and obviously not fit for it. I don't want to hear about how shitty of a job it is, this is the USA not the old USSR where you don't get to choose your job.
I say it was not a bad shoot but horrible shoot, and we have to many of them on too regular of a basis.

[RG Coburn]

Geez...I keep my wallet in my front pants pocket. Guess I can expect a half a magazine's worth in the chest for trying to present ID....
Bad shoot. No weapon,no threat.

[ExCdnSoldierInTx]

I'm not going to second guess anyone, but if I was in the same situation, I'd have pulled the trigger as well. The perp was running from something, he looked all hyped up on speed, and if so, adjusting his Johnson or not, he went for his pocket, which is when my finger would have pulled back

[RG Coburn]

Originally Posted by ExCdnSoldierInTx

I'm not going to second guess anyone, but if I was in the same situation, I'd have pulled the trigger as well. The perp was running from something, he looked all hyped up on speed, and if so, adjusting his Johnson or not, he went for his pocket, which is when my finger would have pulled back

...or maybe trying to reach an asthma inhaler...or heart meds...or insulin...
Crying out loud...our guys in the sandbox have to call up for permission to shoot back,when taking AK fire.

[Mebsuta]

Scared of the police any more.

Seems pretty iffy. How is anyone supposed to hear and respond to verbal commands if you don't turn off the siren? The magazine dump seems uncalled for.