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Old June 13, 2013, 08:44   #201
NicoRoets
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

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Originally Posted by R1shooter View Post
This may be of interest but was down in South Africa a few weeks back and a gun dealer friend took deliver of about 100 complete Rhodesian rifles that had been 'discovered' in the bush, as the story goes it was a weapons storage facility that was forgotten about and rumor has it there were about 2000 guns.
I helped unload the rifles and most were well used but the bores were all decent, what was most interesting to me was a few l1a1 s as well as some Belgium guns but also a number of Imbel rifles, about 1 in 4.
This came as a surprise to me, I am from the region and did not know this till now, and yes they had the same paint. Another tip I got was that the brush painted guns were of the regulars and volunteers, this was paint supplied by the army and was like regular enamel. I was told that the Selous scouts had the company armored spray the guns with canned spray paint and that they were sprayed in the storage racks, this criss cross patterning determined the rifles position in the rack and was a symbolic tradition. As soon as I figure out how to do photos I can post the new guns being sold in South Africa
Hallo R1 shooter, I live in Pretoria. Born and Raised .

I bought a FAL 3 weeks ago (Still waiting for the license) comming from Rhodesia through classic Arms.. Was this your Friend you refer to?

Anyway I am attaching a photo, maybe you guys can tell me more about this rifle ?

serial Number A1243

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmuz2fbtr1lrmm7/tQ5xGNg4Y0


Groete Tjomma
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Old June 14, 2013, 03:36   #202
Dylanmurrish
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Howzat

Howzat Nico

A fellow Pretorian here too. Nice rifle you have there. Markings on the opposite side of the receiver? Mine was brought in by classic arms too.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2jecpsznfhjxp6y/AUmyCzS-uj

Cheers
Dylanm

Last edited by Dylanmurrish; June 14, 2013 at 03:49.
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Old June 14, 2013, 03:55   #203
NicoRoets
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

Hallo,

I am still waiting for the licence and only have the one photo. I bought it from NSN who got them from Classic arms.

It seems yours is the refurbished one ?

What ammo are you using and what accuracy are you getting ?

What shooting range was that ? Where in Ptown are you ?

Groete
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:07   #204
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Nico

Mine has been refurbished by a dealer that bought it from classic arms.
It is an R1 (LIW) in semi auto. I am currently using surplus ammo.
Have you had a look down the barrel of the one you have purchased? is it still clean? Accuracy is quite good but I am currently using mine for 3 gun shooting via SADPA. Accuracy at 100m on a humanoid target:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2yb6eag0ou0boni/QlOcmcrR-1
The photo was taken at Irene range.
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:20   #205
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

Cool !

Yes the bore was one of the most impotant things I checked...Accuracy is very important to me. The barrel looks clean , pit free, and the grooves still sharp, throat does not look eroded.....

What is your Serial Number ?

I shoot Gallary Rifle (Went shooting in England, Bisley few feeks ago)and the SA Hunters Tables.

Where did you get the Milsurp ammo ?

Not Bad accuracy for open sights ...Was that shot freehand or from a rest ?

Groete
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:31   #206
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I bought the ammo from a dealer that had a bunch. Good luck finding more, the stuff is quite scarce. Have the head spacing checked on that rifle, sometimes those old rifles are a bit out but if you say the bore is quite clean, I doubt it was used much so the head spacing should be ok.
I shoot free hand mostly so the grouping was done standing.
I can PM you the serial# if you like. I am not too comfy sharing it on the web. The rifle works real nice for 3 gun, a bit heavy to swing around but it is very accurate and quick follow up shots can be made quite easily.
It is a great to own one of these rifles... I would LOVE to own a few more!!!
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Old June 14, 2013, 04:42   #207
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

Yes, I wanted one since I was a small boy....

Who was the dealer who checked the headspacing for you.

Not sure that allot of guys in PTA know FAL's

Regards
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Old June 14, 2013, 05:25   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoRoets View Post
Yes, I wanted one since I was a small boy....

Who was the dealer who checked the headspacing for you.

Not sure that allot of guys in PTA know FAL's

Regards
There are a few guys that know FN's here, contact the guys at ARMS in PTA, the one smith still has FN tools (gauges and pins). He should be able to check it out for you. Otherwise, ask NSN to get it checked for you. If I may ask, how much did she set you back?
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Old June 14, 2013, 05:37   #209
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

Ok, Great.

I know ARMS very well they built my .300wsm long range rifle. And do most of my Gunsmith work.

It was R9250.

From who did you get yours ?

Regards
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Old June 14, 2013, 06:00   #210
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Originally Posted by NicoRoets View Post
Ok, Great.

I know ARMS very well they built my .300wsm long range rifle. And do most of my Gunsmith work.

It was R9250.

From who did you get yours ?

Regards
Got mine from Panzer logistics here in PTA. Where abouts are you in PTA?
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Old June 14, 2013, 06:05   #211
NicoRoets
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Rhodesian FAL's for sale in South Africa

#$3%#5335.

Last edited by NicoRoets; June 14, 2013 at 06:38.
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Old June 14, 2013, 06:18   #212
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I am in centurion. You familiar with Irene range? Let us know when you get the license for her. You say when and we can meet up on the range for a bit of fun shooting.

Cheers
Dylan
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Old June 14, 2013, 06:19   #213
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Great Idea !

I will Do that, yes I know the Irene range.

Groete
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Old June 14, 2013, 22:14   #214
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Nico,

Bit hard to tell but it looks like your rifle has a G1 barrel (is that a lug about 4 inches from the muzzle ?) that has been threaded for a flashider. It also appears cut for a bipod.

It is not that uncommon for Rhodie rifles to end up with a G1 barrel. Perhaps your rifle is a G1. Is the lower marked S-R-A or S-E-D ?
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Old June 14, 2013, 22:17   #215
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Okay, I answered my own questions by enlarging the photo.

Yes, its a G1 barrel.

Lower marked S-R-A. Clearly a SA rifle imported into Rhodesia. Nice rifle. Wish we could get those here in the States.
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Old June 15, 2013, 07:53   #216
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Thankyou Blackmatt,


So the barrel is a G1 barrel ? 21" ? German? are they good ? are they newer barrels ?

And the rest of the Rifle comes from South Africa ?

I cant remember that it says R1 on the FAL ? even on the oposite side of the rifle.

Wooden Stock ? Did our guys make Wood stocks ?

Regards
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Old June 15, 2013, 09:28   #217
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Nico, from the serial number on your rifle it's most likely a sanitized R1 made in RSA for Rhodesia. It will probably not have any other markings on the receiver other than the serial.

G1 barrels were FN made in the late 1950's. Rhodesia got a hold of some surplus Bundeswehr G1's during the Bush War.

There seems to be some confusion on the wood stocks, but your rifle almost certainly left the factory with the synthetic buttstock.
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Old June 15, 2013, 12:46   #218
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Thankyou KvSmith,

Yes, if I recall correctly that serial is the only number.

Will post more pics when the licence is approved and I bring her home.

Were the G1 barrels good? Where they new when they went to Rhodesia

Do you have any idea when the rifle was sanitized?

Regards
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Old June 15, 2013, 21:32   #219
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I can not see photo but bear in mind our Sap guns had the early lug as well as many l1 a1 barrels were modified to fit metric , having not seen pics on my I phone I am dubious it is a g1 barrel and if so would be early and shot to hell, but I could be wrong.
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Old June 15, 2013, 21:49   #220
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Nico,

The position of the lug on your barrel identifies it as a G1 barrel. No other FAL had the lug forward of the barrel center point. As for the quality of a G1 barrel, when they left the factory in Liege they were excellent. What happened after thatt will determine the condition of yours.

The G1 kits that have come into the USA spent many years of service in the Turkish Army and show it. For this reason some on this forum have a negative opinion of them.
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Old June 16, 2013, 01:34   #221
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Wanderin' Zero,

Actually, your first statement was more correct. The FN FAL's were oficially designated "M1, FN" and mostly called "the FN Rifle" while the SA made FAL's were designated and called R1 (if made for the SADF). Peter Wells posted photos of the SA Army Code Manual a while ago. It's possible that they called the Second Contract FN FAL's by the R1 designation, as they were the same design (flash hider, no lug) but from what I've heard from the guys that were there, I think any FAL that had the Crest was called "FN Rifle."


blackmatt, I'm not sure what you mean by "lug forward of the center point" but there were a number of FN (and Argentine) made FAL's that had a lug.


NicoRoets,

First contract FN made RSA FAL lugged barrels weren't cut for a bipod, which yours is, so best guess is G1. I've seen photos of G1's used in Rhodesia. No idea how they got there. Well made originally, and should be a good shooter if it's not worn out.

I have a trigger housing (lower) with an Axxx serial number, so I believe there were matching FAL's made that way. I can't tell if there is a s/n on your trigger housing or not. Maybe there are other markings, possibly proof marks or inspection stamps inside or on the back of the t/h?

It appears to be a Type 1.5 receiver, but it's hard to tell from the photo. If it is, it's almost certainly SA made.

There were lots of wood stocks used in Rhodesia, some from FN and some that seem to be made from some kind of African wood. I haven't found any conclusive info about where they came from.

RSA made FAL's for more countries than Rhodesia, but I haven't found any guide to which countries, or how they're marked. There is lot of missing history from that period.


Nice looking old war horse, and surely has a tale to tell, if only we could listen! Closer photos and descriptions of any other markings might help, once you get it in hand.






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Old June 16, 2013, 15:31   #222
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I wish I could remember where I read this story, but it escapes me at the moment. When the German Army sold off most of their G1's in the 70's the Turks bought them. Rhodesia was under sanctions at the time as well as an arms embargo. They were quite adept at sanction busting however, and somehow managed to get a hold of one of the shipments of G1's to Turkey and have it rerouted to Rhodesia. These G1's were probably in very good condition coming out of the German Army. I wish I could remember more of the details and where I heard the story. Maybe someone else here can shed more light on the subject.
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Old June 17, 2013, 11:56   #223
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Quote:
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blackmatt, I'm not sure what you mean by "lug forward of the center point" but there were a number of FN (and Argentine) made FAL's that had a lug.
Hoot,

Refering to the difference in placement of the lug. Early FALs (e.g., M1 model) as well as Argentine and others placed the lug more or less centered on the barrel length as measured between the gas block and muzzle end. The G1 lug was more forward of that center point and is the only FAL model to my knowledge that placed the lug at that position on the barrel. As we all know, that had to do with the variety of barrel accessories the Bundeswehr used--BFAs, grenade launchers...

It appears from Nico's picture that the lug placement is closer to the muzzle end of the barel than would be the case with a M1 barrel. Hence my conclusion it is likely a threaded G1 barrel.
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Old June 17, 2013, 12:26   #224
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Hoot,

Refering to the difference in placement of the lug. Early FALs (e.g., M1 model) as well as Argentine and others placed the lug more or less centered on the barrel length as measured between the gas block and muzzle end. The G1 lug was more forward of that center point and is the only FAL model to my knowledge that placed the lug at that position on the barrel.
My pre-ban Argy FAL from Armscorp has the lugged barrel; I tried a G1 "slip-over and twist" flashhider and the lug was too far down the barrel - towards the FSB - to use the G1 hider on the Argy.
Hint: Anyone grinding out G1 slipover flashhiders so as to be usable on a lugged Argy barrel? If so - I'll buy one as the 3-prong Argy bayo doesn't cut it as a flashider..
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Old June 22, 2013, 15:49   #225
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Pooping complete.


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Old June 22, 2013, 19:24   #226
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What paint did you use?
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Old June 22, 2013, 19:39   #227
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What paint did you use?
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346410

Good stuff!
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Old June 29, 2013, 12:31   #228
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Does anyone know how the South African/ Rhodesian Star B pistols where marked?
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Old July 07, 2013, 17:45   #229
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Here's a rifle that I believe was built with parts from a Rodesian FAL. The gun belonged to one of my son's friends. I first examined it a couple of years ago, but poo-poo'ed it because of the Hesse/ CAI receiver. After I read some of the posts here, I took an interest in it and asked to see it again. I confirmed the "baby poop" was visible on many parts. The rifle's bore is shiny and it runs well. The owner and I agreed to a trade, so now it's mine. It looks like it was sprayed with an automotive type gray primer, then it was sprayed with some sort of black gritty material. This grit has a rubbery feel to it. I used some lacquer thinner and cloth to slowely rub this finish to see how much baby poop paint remained. It looks like the baby poop was removed from the plastic butt stock and forearm with a DA sander. My plan it to do a detailed dissassembly and inspection, then remove the existing gray black finish and refinish with the baby poop type color and pattern. The bolt is "RA" marked, but the existing grit finish is so thick, I won't know what other markings may be on the lower until finish is removed.
































Last edited by imarelic; July 08, 2013 at 13:18.
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Old July 09, 2013, 08:18   #230
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My Rhodie

Pictures of my Rhodie that I just completed can be found in this thread. The barrel and lower have been sanitized and the bolt/carrier have matching Rhodesian numbers but they do not match the lower. The receiver is a Coonan 1.5 with numbers matching the lower.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355706
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Old July 09, 2013, 19:35   #231
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Nice rifles Turbo!!
I often wonder what was Rhodesias source for ammo. The false were from all over so I would think the ammo was as well. Seen a few pics with guys having bandoleers tied around the waist almost looks like m14 US bandoleers but can't be certain
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Old July 09, 2013, 20:10   #232
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Nice rifles Turbo!!
I often wonder what was Rhodesias source for ammo. The false were from all over so I would think the ammo was as well. Seen a few pics with guys having bandoleers tied around the waist almost looks like m14 US bandoleers but can't be certain
The primary source was from South Africa...per Dennis Croukamp one of the first large sanctions-busting caches of ammo (and possibly weapons too) in 1966 came from Portugal. He speculated it was diverted from NATO war reserve stocks. I believe Spain was a covert supplier of theirs as well.
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:42   #233
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Does anyone know how the South African/ Rhodesian Star B pistols where marked?
A friend of mine {ex-Parabat} had one when I lived in RSA in the late '80's. I actually do not recall any specific SA markings which doesn't mean anything except I THINK I would have remembered a LARGE stamp of some sort. I hate STAR 9x19 NATO B's by the way. I've owned a number of them. Jam-o-matics. If you have one that doesn't jam...keep it and don't let it go!

A question RE: R1 rifles;

What has happened to them now? I left RSA in 1989 and haven't been back. Are they all more or less second line now and still held in Reserve or has there been a substantial dumping/destruction of them?

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Old July 10, 2013, 16:10   #234
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A friend of mine {ex-Parabat} had one when I lived in RSA in the late '80's. I actually do not recall any specific SA markings which doesn't mean anything except I THINK I would have remembered a LARGE stamp of some sort. I hate STAR 9x19 NATO B's by the way. I've owned a number of them. Jam-o-matics. If you have one that doesn't jam...keep it and don't let it go!

A question RE: R1 rifles;

What has happened to them now? I left RSA in 1989 and haven't been back. Are they all more or less second line now and still held in Reserve or has there been a substantial dumping/destruction of them?
I found a couple with the M inside the U, I'll post some pictures if I manage to snag one.
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Old July 11, 2013, 16:43   #235
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Photos

I just became a member after following for years. What level of contributor do I need to be to store attachments?

Thanks
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Old July 23, 2013, 01:24   #236
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Ex -Rohedesion FAL - Identity

Hallo Guys,

I finally got my license yesterday and went to collect my FAL.
I did the strip & clean last night.
Herewith the pictures with all the proof markings I could find.
From your first observations , it seemed to be G1 barrel in South African made receiver.
You can probably tell me more now ?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmuz2fbtr1lrmm7/tQ5xGNg4Y0



Regards
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Old July 23, 2013, 11:48   #237
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Nice matching gun. Definitely G1 barrel threaded for a flashhider. Lug placement and bipod cut give it away. What are the markings on the barrel beyond the Liege proof you photographed ?

This is a South African produced rifle as opposed to a FN rifle that was supplied in connection with one of the early South African contracts.

Looks like the RA numbers were scrubbed from your lower and upper receiver but not the carrier.

Here in the States there are a fair number of lowers (and bolts/carriers) that have the serial number starting with "A" followed by either a three or four digit serial number. Not sure how these relate to the more common SA parts kits with a six digit serial number. Member Hoot here on FAL FILES is our resident SME (subject matter expert) on Rhodie and South African service FALs. Maybe he can shed some light on that important question.

Last edited by blackmatt; July 23, 2013 at 21:38.
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Old July 23, 2013, 20:51   #238
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A question RE: R1 rifles;

What has happened to them now? I left RSA in 1989 and haven't been back. Are they all more or less second line now and still held in Reserve or has there been a substantial dumping/destruction of them?
Mostly destroyed in the early 2000s. Look up "Operation Mouflon".
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Old July 25, 2013, 06:26   #239
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Ex -Rohedesion FAL - Identity

Blackmatt,

Thanks for the info.

I will check the other markings....What is the Liege of proof ? Belgian proof marks ?

SO where did the G1 barrel come from ? Germany and then assembled with SA Parts in Rhodesia ?

The barrel is 21' , I also Gauged the barrel it is 7.63mm which is still quite good.

I am also thinking of getting a fre float tube from DSARMS , but is that really free float ? it seems to be still making contact with the gas port ?


Regards
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Old July 25, 2013, 22:41   #240
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Blackmatt,

Thanks for the info.

I will check the other markings....What is the Liege of proof ? Belgian proof marks ?

SO where did the G1 barrel come from ? Germany and then assembled with SA Parts in Rhodesia ?

The barrel is 21' , I also Gauged the barrel it is 7.63mm which is still quite good.

I am also thinking of getting a fre float tube from DSARMS , but is that really free float ? it seems to be still making contact with the gas port ?


Regards
Rhodesia was having to source parts "on the sly", via arms-runners and sanction-busters, as well as arms and ammunition...I suppose spare G1 barrels and other parts could have been "procured" at the same time, and from the same source, as the G1 rifles that mysteriously found their way to Rhodesia.
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Old July 29, 2013, 06:14   #241
NicoRoets
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Rhodi FAL

Hi all,

I took my new FAL out to the Range yesterday....I am hooked!

played a bit , shot some groups and sighted the scope after the 4 shot group, see pic...I am very impressed...About 1MOA group..with old SA milltay (PW ammo)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a1s9n7cm6n8v3uy/fM9dcmxZdO

Had a little trouble with that ammo... Bolt seemed stuck with case still in chaimber...had to force open (using my foot)...closed GAS to 1.. still happened.....Reloaded ammo and another batch worked fine..

Has anybody experienced stuck cases before ?

Regards
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Old July 29, 2013, 06:53   #242
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The stuck case is usually insufficient gas, resulting in short stroking the bolt.
the expanded case is now rammed back into the chamber. Usually I start with the gas regulator fully closed and back it off until the the bolt hold open
won't catch and then move it up a couple. The stuck case removal event
is called the 'pogo'. You turn the rifle upside down, place the the charging handle knob on a strong wood surface (shooting bench) and push on the buttstuck, generally dislodges the case.

BTW, I've been working on your door drawing.
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Old July 29, 2013, 08:51   #243
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Hi 2barearms,

Thanks for the advice.

I have noticed also that plug from the gas tube screwing into the receiver comes loose .. How tight should it be ? dont have a spanner or special tool to fit on that ...

That is great news ! cant wait to see the drawings

Regards
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Old July 29, 2013, 15:56   #244
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Make sure your gas tube is pinned.
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Old July 29, 2013, 20:56   #245
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Originally Posted by NicoRoets View Post
I have noticed also that plug from the gas tube screwing into the receiver comes loose .. How tight should it be ? dont have a spanner or special tool to fit on that ...
Theoretically, it should be tight. However, it often works loose, and I've never seen any effect on function from it working loose.
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Old July 30, 2013, 00:55   #246
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Make sure your gas tube is pinned.
Thankyou Ismith,

How do I do that ? do you have pictures ?

Regards
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Old July 30, 2013, 01:04   #247
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You should be able to find some pictures with a search. You can see the hole on the inside bottom where the gas tube screws into the gas block. I used a wire coat hanger to make a pin for my rifle.
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Old July 31, 2013, 21:06   #248
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Blackmatt,

Thanks for the info.

I will check the other markings....What is the Liege of proof ? Belgian proof marks ?

SO where did the G1 barrel come from ? Germany and then assembled with SA Parts in Rhodesia ?

The barrel is 21' , I also Gauged the barrel it is 7.63mm which is still quite good.

I am also thinking of getting a fre float tube from DSARMS , but is that really free float ? it seems to be still making contact with the gas port ?


Regards
Hello Nico,

The Liege proof is the marking on your barrel (your photo 4 of 9) that looks a bit like an egg with a crown on it. It's an FN proof mark. Liege is a city in Belgium. I was wondering if your barrel has a serial number. if it did it would likely be a surplus barrel that found its way on to a Rhodie gun. If it didn't it is likely one of the new G1 barrels we here on the FAL FILES believe were acquired by Rhodesia and fitted onto SA rifles.

I'm a traditionalist (as are most of us on this site) and I'd leave your piece of history just the way it is -- no free float aftermarket stuff. Of course, its your rifle to do as you please and your plan if carried out is certainly not irreversible.

Overall, nice rifle that we're envious of !
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Old August 02, 2013, 02:19   #249
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Hi Blackmatt,
I checked again last night.
No serial numbers on the barrel
The following Markings are on the barrel :
Liege of Proof
R (sorry blurred)
.J
And another proof mark ?
See the attached photos.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifsglouxdcz5uxr/P1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifsglouxdcz5uxr/P1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjh5gy1567c6s6a/P2.jpg

Regards
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Old September 20, 2013, 01:01   #250
Tau
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Hi Manne

First post here. I am a rifle lover and hunt all over Rsa and Nam. I studied Nature Conservation and eneded up working for South African National Parks. This is where I was issued with a proper R1
Serial no:782..8 I think. Anyways I used the rifle on guiding routes and walks in the park. So never used a rifle in military situation, but lived with the rifle and shot 50 rounds every month to keep our qualification as guide, rifleman, advanced rifleman.

I have now completed my dedicated hunter and sport shooter status with NSA and can now get my Glock 19 and hopefully a R1 on my name(the Glock has been paid for a year ago..

So I now need to find a neatish R1. I want the one like I carried for that year in Parks. I did my competancy shoot with a LM 5 , but it did nothing for me. At the end I want to do 3 Gun shoots.

So any RSA boys now of a good deal on a R1 let me know please.
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