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Old October 03, 2017, 19:29   #1
RG Coburn
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"batoning"? Seriously?

Do any of you guy ever "baton" with your blades? I cannot think of any one tine in my 5 decades of playing with knives that I've ever felt the need to "baton" a piece of wood. I always just found a piece of wood I did not need to split. Always thought batoning was a waste of time and abuse of my knives.
I will say,I carry a saw almost as a religion,in my packs. "Survival Russia" on youtube only confirms what I already found out...a saw is a wonderful thing,and a very useful tool worth carrying.
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Old October 03, 2017, 19:34   #2
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I've done it many years ago while camping, splitting some pine kindling then got smart and put a hatchet in my gear.

A saw is useful but a good sharp hand axe is the one survival tool to have, far more versatile.
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Old October 03, 2017, 20:07   #3
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I do on occasion. With the appropriate spine thickness I wouldn’t consider it abuse at all, but it’s definitely not appropriate for all blades. If I could only take one edged tool, a knife capable of batoning would be pretty attractive. Making kindling is where it is a useful technique, especially in damp environments where the only dry wood is heart wood and/or when you don’t find yourself with the luxury of “just finding a piece of wood you did not need to split”. I’ve been in that situation, and found it a technique and capability worth having for a survival tool.
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Old October 03, 2017, 21:25   #4
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Really only appropriate for good quality camping knives and heavier!
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Old October 03, 2017, 21:44   #5
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Thing is,I'm seeing vids of guys batoning Moras...or other nice Scandi-types..
And they are trying to split a piece of wood...that has sawed ends...
????
I agree axes are very useful,and I do own more than a few,but try to build something that requires lengths to exact sizes. And I have found saws use far less calories to create the equal lengths of wood,with ends that are 90 degrees instead of roughly pointed. For what a nice folding saw weighs,it is worth tossing in to the pack.
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Old October 03, 2017, 23:16   #6
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Yep I baton, a well made Bowie can Baton all day as long as one knows how to do it, if UR out in the country with limited options a Bowie can serve many uses. But usually I prefer finding smaller wood. Problems arise when U take on a piece of wood either too green or too big in diameter or run the blade along the line of a knot. Blade gets stuck good, then U spend Ur time trying to unwedge it.
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Old October 03, 2017, 23:29   #7
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my image of batoning doesn't invole usin a piece of wood
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Old October 04, 2017, 09:08   #8
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Hereabouts, if someone saw you "Batoning", you'd be asked, "Didja lose your axe?"

I've never done it myself, but can understand the practice in an emergency situation. Emergency situations usually come from poor planning like overloading your donkey and not having an axe in your kit.

I have watched quite a few "Survivalist" types that seem determined to transverse the Rocky Mountains with nothing but a cup, piece of tarp, and a wee small knife that can be "batoned" upon. Mora's and other "Scandi ground" 3" to 4" blades seem to be favorites.
One of these managed to snap a Cold Steel Trailmaster in half, would have thought that knife would do better, but know that high carbon SS can be brittle.

With a dozen axes to choose from, it's the first tool picked when going to the woods. A fixed blade knife is handy, but not mandatory, folders will do most of
any whittling that needs to be done.
If no real serious axe work is foreseen, my favorite is a Snow & Neely 1 3/4lb Camp axe with an 18" handle. An old smaller version of this from Norland weighs little more than a large knife.

I do have a fondness for a knife and have some that weigh a pound or better, but just don't see the fascination of splitting kindling wood with one.

Those folding saws sound good, got to look into adding one to my gear.
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Old October 04, 2017, 15:57   #9
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If I am batoning in a survival scenario I doubt anyone will be standing around asking me if I lost my ax...I'd rather have a good Bowie with multiple potential uses at my side than lugging an ax around.
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Old October 04, 2017, 16:39   #10
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Busse knives are built for this.
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Old October 04, 2017, 16:52   #11
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I do have a fondness for a knife and have some that weigh a pound or better, but just don't see the fascination of splitting kindling wood with one.
Not the preferred method but a nice tool for your bag of tricks.

YMMV
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Old October 04, 2017, 18:29   #12
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People "baton" their knives because they never learned how to properly sharpen an axe.

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Old October 04, 2017, 18:38   #13
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Himilayan Imports Kukri "The chirowa Anghola"

The Kuhkri is Gauranteed for batoning to illustrate they took one and chopped a car body into pieces clear OFF the frame-Cut it off the frame, one could not tell it had gone through the abuse as it would still shave arm hair with a few strokes of the Chakma.

You are right WEG, My axes shave, but I still have a place for the khukri, throwing the khukri is effective too in the right hands.
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Old October 09, 2017, 23:17   #14
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It's an ages old traditional skill. It's easy. Ever heard of a froe?

In a survival scenario it takes less energy and is safer than swinging an axe or other chopper.
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Old October 10, 2017, 07:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chino*74 View Post
If I am batoning in a survival scenario I doubt anyone will be standing around asking me if I lost my ax...I'd rather have a good Bowie with multiple potential uses at my side than lugging an ax around.
Spoken like a true Bill Bagwell believer
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Old October 10, 2017, 08:50   #16
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field knife
pocket knife
saw
hatchet (on foot) / youth axe (vehicle)

If I really had to ditch one it would be the field knife.
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Old October 11, 2017, 07:23   #17
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It's an ages old traditional skill. It's easy. Ever heard of a froe?

In a survival scenario it takes less energy and is safer than swinging an axe or other chopper.
A froe is used with a wood mallet to split shingles, usually out of cedar or cyprus,,,woods that sometimes split by looking at them sideways...

I also fail to follow the survival situation logic...

If im actually in such a situation and have nothing but said knife,,why would I subject it to abuse and chance damage when it could be easily avoided,,,
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Old October 11, 2017, 13:12   #18
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A froe is used with a wood mallet to split shingles, usually out of cedar or cyprus,,,woods that sometimes split by looking at them sideways...

I also fail to follow the survival situation logic...

If im actually in such a situation and have nothing but said knife,,why would I subject it to abuse and chance damage when it could be easily avoided,,,
Batoning to split wood is safer than swinging an axe to split wood. that is a fact. Particularly when injured or exhausted. (if you don't need to split the wood, neither technique will be used)

The idea that batoning is abusive is fallacious. It's just one of many traditional woodcraft techniques.
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Old October 11, 2017, 15:25   #19
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I've read a lot of the old woods ways and lore books and such,from the days of our great grandfathers and before,and never read of them smacking a knife to split wood... this is a fairly new idea. It was always use the right tool,in this case,an axe,a hatchet,a froe. Even an axe should not be impacted by another metal tool. But I find a lot of peaned-over axe heads,usually,without handles.
Yeah,I own knives that would(or should) stand up to it,but like others have pointed out,in situations,especially in dire survival,I want to keep that knife sharp and in function.You break that blade,you could be in a lot deeper crap than not having a split piece of wood. And any blade can break.
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Old October 11, 2017, 16:33   #20
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I've read a lot of the old woods ways and lore books and such,from the days of our great grandfathers and before,and never read of them smacking a knife to split wood... this is a fairly new idea. It was always use the right tool,in this case,an axe,a hatchet,a froe. Even an axe should not be impacted by another metal tool. But I find a lot of peaned-over axe heads,usually,without handles.
Yeah,I own knives that would(or should) stand up to it,but like others have pointed out,in situations,especially in dire survival,I want to keep that knife sharp and in function.You break that blade,you could be in a lot deeper crap than not having a split piece of wood. And any blade can break.
It isn't a new idea. A chisel is the same principle. Drive the blade through the material in a controlled fashion. Splitting isn't its only application. It's common sense. As long as there have been sharp things, batoning has occurred.
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Old October 11, 2017, 20:49   #21
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In the older illustrations I've seen, the recommendation was to whittle wood wedges and strike them into a split to break up the larger piece.

Scale as you please and doesn't risk the knife.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:36   #22
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It isn't a new idea. A chisel is the same principle. Drive the blade through the material in a controlled fashion. Splitting isn't its only application. It's common sense. As long as there have been sharp things, batoning has occurred.
I get it,, your not a carpenter...

Wood Chisels are made for cutting, not splitting wood, thats why their ground on one side only.

If you used one of MY wood chisels to split up some fire wood,,some batoning would definitely ensue....
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Old October 12, 2017, 15:53   #23
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If hitting a splitting wedge axe with a sledge hammer counts then I'm in.

But seriously, a great way to make a very precise split if done with care, just don't try it for random splitting of big twisty wood.
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Old October 13, 2017, 11:37   #24
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I get it,, your not a carpenter...

Wood Chisels are made for cutting, not splitting wood, thats why their ground on one side only.

If you used one of MY wood chisels to split up some fire wood,,some batoning would definitely ensue....

Not sure if you are just acting obtuse, but nowhere is it written that batoning is only for splitting. It is the act of driving a blade through a material with measured blows as opposed to momentum. Seriously, it isn't that hard to grasp the concept.
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Old October 13, 2017, 12:35   #25
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Not sure if you are just acting obtuse, but nowhere is it written that batoning is only for splitting. It is the act of driving a blade through a material with measured blows as opposed to momentum. Seriously, it isn't that hard to grasp the concept.
LMAO,,Yea, I guess thats me, just a dumb uneducated OBTUSE city boy.

So walk me through it slowly...

Please point out or explain where this whole 'batoning' thing, or even a single post or thought, was about ANYTHING besides splitting firewood by beating your knife down through it ??
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Old October 13, 2017, 14:46   #26
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I've yet to witness an Eskimo baton their Uluu knife...
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Old October 13, 2017, 19:31   #27
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Batoning is the thread topic. It's not just splitting (which isn't abusive anyway) I will stop trying to compete with the Dunning–Kruger effect now.
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Old October 13, 2017, 20:50   #28
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LOL!
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Old October 14, 2017, 06:55   #29
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Batoning is the thread topic. It's not just splitting (which isn't abusive anyway) I will stop trying to compete with the Dunning–Kruger effect now.

LOL,,,OK...When you cant back up your BS, just use a little misdirection, claim YOU know better than anyone else and someone who thinks any different or asks for an example is obviously of inferior intellect.

Are you a democrat ?
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Old Yesterday, 23:26   #30
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LMAO,,Yea, I guess thats me, just a dumb uneducated OBTUSE city boy.

So walk me through it slowly...

Please point out or explain where this whole 'batoning' thing, or even a single post or thought, was about ANYTHING besides splitting firewood by beating your knife down through it ??
Here’s two articles about the technique from the top of a simple search engine page. Walk yourself through it, slowly, so you can come off as less of a knob and offer a little more than just smarmy rhetoric in an attempt to pick a quarrel with the good colonel here.

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2...e-of-batoning/

https://morethanjustsurviving.com/batoning/

That’s just two examples for you. If you still find yourself failing to understand, google using the keywords “batoning” , “wood”, and “bushcraft” and you’ll find plenty more examples. Walk as slow as you like. Much info available and not all of it is splitting wood.
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Old Today, 06:18   #31
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Here’s two articles about the technique from the top of a simple search engine page. Walk yourself through it, slowly, so you can come off as less of a knob and offer a little more than just smarmy rhetoric in an attempt to pick a quarrel with the good colonel here.

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2...e-of-batoning/

https://morethanjustsurviving.com/batoning/

That’s just two examples for you. If you still find yourself failing to understand, google using the keywords “batoning” , “wood”, and “bushcraft” and you’ll find plenty more examples. Walk as slow as you like. Much info available and not all of it is splitting wood.
Start from the begining and read through it again,,,,Nowhere did I ever fail to UNDERSTAND what the word 'batoning' is being used to convey.
I'll go through it slowly for both of you.

First he states 'it's an age old traditional skill'
WRONG,,,As RG stated above and as anyone that grew up reading all the old wood craft books that they could get their hands on can attest to. Batoning is a very new invention and runs completely opposite to what has been taught as proper knife use or wood craft for millennia.

Second he add's a condescending 'ever heard of a froe?'
WRONG AGAIN,,,,A froe is never beaten into and used to split wood. A froe is used to extend a split that has already been started with a proper splitting tool. A froe is only used on clear, strait grain, knot free pieces of wood that already has a natural tendency to split with the grain. It's sure as hell isent used to be beaten into and split random pieces of firewood.... Look it up.

Next he states it's 'safer' and 'The idea that batoning is abusive is fallacious'
AGAIN WRONG,,,It may be safer, but if it results in breaking your only knife in a survival situation, I dont consider that very safe.
As stated by Mainer above and well known by anyone that has been around both cutting instruments and know it all morons,,,broken, snapped or chipped knives are pretty damn common.
When I was doing grinding and sharpening in NY and making knives as a hobby, I personally experienced a boat load of such breakage...But dont take my word for it,,stop and ask at a local sharpening business or at a mobile sharpening service truck...I'm sure they'll have a few good ones saved that are hanging around to show people..I know I always did.
In fact if you read your links above, you'll see they talk about braking and broken knives,,,but enough on that

I could talk about chisels,,,,how they chip up and need regrinding because of knots or how carving chisels are usually tempered harder and usually come with clear instructions that they should never be used in wood with knots...
But thats neither here nor there at this point,,,

I would be very happy to settle for his simple explanation about how batoning is useful for all sorts of other purposes and isent all about splitting fire wood...
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Old Today, 11:20   #32
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Start from the begining and read through it again,,,,Nowhere did I ever fail to UNDERSTAND what the word 'batoning' is being used to convey.


I would be very happy to settle for his simple explanation about how batoning is useful for all sorts of other purposes and isent all about splitting fire wood...
I’m clear on it all, but you seem to be struggling. Try actually reading the links I provided and you’ll find what you are looking for.

But if you think that batoning is a “new invention” then you are not thinking past your own nose. Just because it doesn’t make the it to the text of your carpentry and cabinetmaking books doesn’t disqualify it nor establish it’s history. It’s not a woodworking technique, it’s a raw wood processing technique. Woodworking tools are very different and refined for specific tasks. A knife is a general purpose tool that can and often does fill several roles.

I can promise you the very idea of batoning has a history as long as the very first edged tools. Striking an edged widget with a non-edged widget in order to cut, sever, split, or smash is one of the tool-utilizing hallmarks that separate (some of) us from lower animals. It is primitive in nature and application, and to suggest otherwise is pretty “obtuse”. I’ve used a form of batoning for various bushcrafting duties from making traps to ancilliary tools. It can be scaled in force to cut cross grain for precise cuts on uneven surfaces, like making notches on heavier stock. It can come in handy when fine motor skills have become challenged by fatigue. Admittedly not the ideal tool/technique for many of it’s capabilities, but in the context of survival or “one tool” situations it is a legit performing technique. I know this because I’ve seen myself do it.

All that said, you clearly want to argue. That’s okay with me. You aren’t the only guy here with decades of experience with various blades and tools. However, I’d be surprised (and impressed) if you regularly persue and practice the types of primitive skills activities and outings that I do, so if your perspective is that of a furniture maker, carpenter, or casual knife geek I can see why you might be so adamant in your position that it is an abusive and careless venture that must certainly result in blade failure and copious amounts of blood loss. Sorry vinny, it just ain’t so. Not in my experience anyways.
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