The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > Ammunition

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 13, 2018, 18:56   #51
longhair51
Constitutional curmudgeon
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 5884
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 1,859
Just got the gauge in the mail today. Is your gauge interior finished better than mine?



__________________
“In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
George Orwell attributed

”if the federal government treats the American public with this degree of contempt when we’re armed to the teeth, imagine how they would treat us if they had all our guns."
longhair51 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 14, 2018, 12:02   #52
ArtBanks
Veteran Member
Platinum Contributor
 
ArtBanks's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 28761
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Preston, CT
Posts: 1,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
I beleive my point about "springback" is this:

You don't load perfectly good ammo, and then somehow the ammo mysteriously "springs back" while its sitting in the ammo can waiting to be fired.

If the base to shoulder dimension is too long when you go to chamber the cartridge in your rifle - whether you chamber it the day after you assembled the cartridge, or twenty years after you assembled the cartridge - that base-to-shoulder dimension was too long on the day you assembled the cartridge.

You should never be caught by surprise about excess base-to-shoulder dimension. If that dimension is excessive, it is because you were too anal, or too careless, or too ignorant, when you set up the sizing die. Same criteria applies as to selection of the batch of brass to be sized.
The spring back that I am addressing with this thread is in the web area.
This does not normally effect headspace and can pass the wilson guage test.
The spring back some talk about that does effect headspace is usually caused by draw out of the expander ball in an unlubed or dry case neck interior, pulling the shoulder out after sizing.
__________________
Semper Fi
Art
Sgt. USMC 66-72
RVN 67-68
ArtBanks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 14, 2018, 12:05   #53
ArtBanks
Veteran Member
Platinum Contributor
 
ArtBanks's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 28761
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Preston, CT
Posts: 1,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhair51 View Post
Just got the gauge in the mail today. Is your gauge interior finished better than mine?



Never paid any attention to the finish on the interior. As long as it functions as a test guage I wouldn't worry about the finish. Now, if this was in a chamber that brass could be expanded against, I might be concerned. When I get back from vacation next week I will take a close look.
Best photo I could find in my bucket shows a little smoother interior, but really not that close up we would like.
This photo shows one of my Sheridan guages and a Redding SB body die that I use to resize ammo that was loaded years ago and won't function in some of my match .308 chambers. No troubles with my FALs or M14s with NATO chambers, but when barrels are replaced with new, the size diameter shows up.
I enlarged the neck area of the Redding body die so it doesn't mash the neck on loaded ammo. Has worked great for something like 8K of loaded ammo.


Did a test and found that accuracy was also increased by having cases chamber the same each time.
__________________
Semper Fi
Art
Sgt. USMC 66-72
RVN 67-68

Last edited by ArtBanks; September 14, 2018 at 12:20.
ArtBanks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 15, 2018, 18:17   #54
KoKodog
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31665
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: on top of a wind swept ridge
Posts: 5,415
5.56 brass cut down and processed for conversion to .300 Blackout

annealing brass before forming prevents springback of the shoulder, affecting headspace and overall length of the case, otherwise the shoulder does not remain uniform until the case is fired the first time when the brass “flows” under pressure in the chamber

Federal cases (first pic) look very uniform laid out side by side, the LC brass (Lake City) is a slightly different alloy and does not show the discoloration from annealing exactly the same, both headstamps were run today one right after the other





__________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things,
than to take refuge with those timid spirits
that know neither victory, nor defeat.
Teddy Roosvelt

Pray for peace, but prepare for war.
Winston Churchill
KoKodog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17, 2018, 21:58   #55
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,553
More estate sale boots another L.E. Wilson 223 case gauge and of all things a 6.8 spc unit as well. A box of my favorite general purpose 224 projectiles these days 69 grain SMK's. Box was open and count was 76 projectiles left which will pour into one of my partial bulk boxes after pointing. 62 grain are fine for milspec but not quite the high BC floaters a person wants but hold supersonic velocity farther than 77 grain.



Have acquired a high number of 18" 1:8 5.56 Wylde tubes and the 69's shoot beautifully in 1:8. Am finding 1:7 too fast ilf get hold of some M193 ball but 1:8 seems to shoot lighter bullets decently and still stabilizes 77's. Noticed David Tubb only uses 69 grain SMK's in his DTAC 5.56 ammo and after shooting a 100 count box it's my go-to factory 5.56 precision ammo. My 1:9's like it and even my 20" 1:12's will shoot them.

The 168 grain 30 caliber SMK's with 92 in box are one of my two most used precision bullets so at the price of $35 for the four items figured was buying one of the case gauges and getting rest for free. LGS has a few more items in that came in with this am contemplating. Have had more estate deals this summer than any similar period of time in life. Actually been quite odd. Have two sets of 45 LC, 45 AE, 44 special/44 mag and 308. Doubles in eachieving but all Lee dies and not a big Lee die user plus already have at least doubles in most and a half dozen various 308 die sets.

Don't own a 45 AE or dies so may pick them up just in case will have in the kit. Last count had dies for 72 cartridges and just over 100 sets total due to stamdard, small base, match and other flavors so can work a popular case any way might need. Goal is to have 100 calibers which should be able to load for pretty much any cartridge that walks in the door. Only had one 6.8 case gauge so now wife and I can both check 6.8 cases at same time when prepping cases. Quality bonding time.

Told me was more in back had not gone through but have more outpatient tomorrow and then Thursday will,be clear to drive so plan to pilfer the pile on Thursday. Sure there will be a fair amount of booty to score. The partial and full boxes of primers and powder will be the most interesting as trying to pile the two to the moon. Also told were lots of boxes of commercial cast thus it's going to be a full day of splitting out what I need then organizing the rest for the shelves but worth the work. All the estates and recent organizing have realized am fully recouped from Sandy Hook plus some and my estate primer price of $12 to $15 per 1,000 primers and $8 per pound of powder has really helped do it on a budget.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 18, 2018, 17:19   #56
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,553
Set a bag of 2,500 new primed 6.8 spc II cases out last night before this mornings outpatient procedure. Out of curiosity have been sitting around when bored dropping new cases in the gauge before I run them through the bump die to set back and square shoulders plus ensure necks are all sized the same for uniform tension.

This is an example of why I like to bump my shoulders even on new primed cases. On occasion they are a bit long from case head to shoulder.







These were fine but got bumped anyway so could be sure have consistent neck tension as well as length. Even after bumping new cases wife and I still do a Q.C. check on finished rounds to make sure all are still happy when fall off press into hopper.





__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 19, 2018, 14:24   #57
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,553
This morning am rambling around the house waiting for my "no driving or lifting" past op time to pass and have learned the repetative motion wirh combination of resistance of pulling handles on reloading presses is one of the worst things can do. I did spot check 2,500 6.8 pull down cases to find about 5% were out of spec. Could have been reason the failed Q.C. and were sent out for pull down or the bullet pulling process stretched them a tad.

Inventoried dies and in 223/5.56, 308/7.62 and 6.8 have so many different die sets and specialty dies can do about anything needed to any of those or other cartridges especially my precision bolt cartridges. Was looking at my 458 SOCOM dies which is newest cartridge added to the fleet and realized my Redding set was just a standard FL 2 die set with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Did a little looking and found this decent looking four die set from Lyman that comes with a chamber checker. Snatched this picture off Brownell's site but found them cheaper on several sites at $69 bucks.



Quote:
Reload Right for Your Modern Sporting Rifle

The Lyman MSR Die Set is specifically designed for reloaders looking to fine-tune loads for their AR-style modern sporting rifle. The dies are loaded with MSR-specific features, ensuring that MSR-owning handloaders can tailor their handmade rounds for their semi-automatic, magazine-fed rifle systems.

The Lyman MSR Die Set ships with an included Small Base Sizing Die, which works to resize MSR cartridges to a slightly smaller than standard size in order to promote smooth, trouble-free feeding from the magazine into the chamber. The dies also feature a specially- designed Taper Crimp Die that gives cases an extra-strong crimp in order to preserve overall cartridge length when feeding from a magazine.

Ammo Checker cartridge "Go" gauge included with each set
Available for .223 Rem., 6.8 SPC, 300 Blackout, .308 Win. 3 die sets and .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM and 50 Beowulf 4 die sets.
Comes with clear, plastic storage case
Features black finish

The Lyman MSR Die Set also ships with Lyman's Ammo Checker gauge, enabling users to safety-check their loaded rounds for consistency.
For $70 to the door that is quite the set and have the 458 SOCOM set on the way to see how they work. Also gives me that second set of dies which always like in cartridges load often. Can use the Redding set for load development or case prep then drop the Lyman set in a tool head for a Dillon machine.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:42   #58
davedude
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 20538
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
Posts: 4,591
I used to just full length size and go but now since this thread I decided to get anal about headspace and gauging. Can't argue with safety and accuracy. So after the order this morning I'm out $350 in gauging and other cool stuff like Redding competition shellholder sets and this is just for 308 and 223 so far. Can't help it, I'm a tool user and likes me some tools!
__________________
There's only two reasons we showed up here, to party and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer!
davedude is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files