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Old July 06, 2018, 19:00   #1
krisincolfax
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Is it possible to darken a stock ?

I would like to make this stock a little darker , without any sheen ,
what would be the best way ? maybe some fine grade steel wool
and tung oil ? , just a guess , really dont have a clue






Its actually a little lighter than it apears in the pictures
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Old July 06, 2018, 19:04   #2
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Aniline dye ( readily available, inexpensive ).

Better yet , metal acid dye ( not so available, expensive )

..................
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Old July 06, 2018, 19:24   #3
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I'll check it out , I'm after the " been there done that " look , or
the well used look , nuth'in fancy
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Old July 06, 2018, 22:30   #4
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Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
... I'm after the " been there done that " look , or
the well used look , nuth'in fancy
Send it to me ... I'll put it on my beater FAL, then go run some battle drills and banana dives in the rocks
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Old July 06, 2018, 22:45   #5
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https://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/MAWAL1.asp

Alcohol based, it is easy to control how dark you want it. Nice tint of red. I love this stuff!

Flywood stock next to a rescued FN grip. Used stain above, with hand rubbed coats of Milk's dark Tung oil cut 50/50 with mineral spirits.

Stock has had multiple coats and buffed with 0000 between applications once the pores were sealed.

The grip was pretty gnarly when I started... used stripped with orange stripped, hot water and scrubbed with brush. Steamed out as many of the dents as possible. Light quick sand with 400, and final buff with 0000. Application of above stain, and a few applications of 50/50 dark tung oil mixed with mineral spirits.



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Old July 06, 2018, 22:47   #6
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Might see if you could trade for what you want...
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Old July 06, 2018, 22:49   #7
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Boom.....

https://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/MAWAL1.asp

Alcohol based, it is easy to control how dark you want it. Nice tint of red. I love this stuff!

Flywood stock next to a rescued FN grip.

Umm... Wow.
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Old July 06, 2018, 22:52   #8
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Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
I'll check it out , I'm after the " been there done that " look , or
the well used look , nuth'in fancy
Take a heavy steel tow chain, about 5 or 6 feet, place stock on card board, bunch up chain in your hands and drop from about three feet onto stock, will add random dents and bruises.

I spend my days taking out dents and marks, but putting them back in is easy.
Being retired army, any GI can muck it up without a second thought.

Strip off all the old finish and color first with stripper, before the chain treatment.

Then add color back with dye, medium walnut, mixed thick and dark, then a single coat of oil should get the look you're after.

OR, sell this nice stock, then buy a junker with GI dents and dings already added over past fifty years.
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Old July 06, 2018, 23:19   #9
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Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
I would like to make this stock a little darker , without any sheen ,
what would be the best way ? maybe some fine grade steel wool
and tung oil ? , just a guess , really dont have a clue






Its actually a little lighter than it apears in the pictures
You might try using just dark Tung oil without stain. It will darken the wood, protect it, without making it bling. Cut it with mineral spirits to help it soak into the wood and accelerate dry time. Rub the oil in by hand (get some heat going with friction). Let it sit fr an hour or so, and then lightly wipe down with a lint free cloth. Let it dry thoroughly (a couple days) and repeat the process.

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/oils/dark-tung/
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Old July 07, 2018, 00:41   #10
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If you decide not to do anything, it looks good just like it is.
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Old July 07, 2018, 01:53   #11
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Wood

Buy a narley stock off marketplace and sell that one.
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Old July 07, 2018, 09:33   #12
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Guess I should have been more specific about been there done that ... ,
don't want to trash the thing , just make the color darker , as in well
taken care of and heavy use in a hot and dusty climate .

Lockjaw , your spot on as to what I'm after , your stock and PG are
quite impressive , I'm leaning towards the dark tung oil method ,
wondering if I should " break the glaze " on the surface first with
really fine steel wool , then start the process with the tung oil

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Old July 07, 2018, 11:03   #13
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Originally Posted by krisincolfax View Post
Guess I should have been more specific about been there done that ... ,
don't want to trash the thing , just make the color darker , as in well
taken care of and heavy use in a hot and dusty climate .

Lockjaw , your spot on as to what I'm after , your stock and PG are
quite impressive , I'm leaning towards the dark tung oil method ,
wondering if I should " break the glaze " on the surface first with
really fine steel wool , then start the process with the tung oil
I'd likely wipe it lightly/quickly wipe off with acetone (just to clean surface), and then begin process of applying the Milk's dark Tung oil (again, 50/50 with mineral spirits). It is a nice stock, I wouldn't strip it. I allow each application around one or two days (or more) to dry between applications. Allow to dry in dry area indoors, don't put in sun. After multiple applications, and oil has started to dry on the surface (it will become cloudy), then hit stock with 0000. At this point, wipe on (full strength is fine) and wipe off to preserve what you have.


....

Patience is the key.
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Old July 07, 2018, 13:30   #14
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If you decide not to do anything, it looks good just like it is.
+1

If anything just some BLO.
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Old July 07, 2018, 15:22   #15
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I was informed that bolied linseed oil has a tendency to give the
wood a reddish hue , not what I'm after , gona go with the method
that lockjaw described with the dark tung oil
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Old July 07, 2018, 19:14   #16
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I'm somewhat different and like the sheen of an exotic grain.

I've used Minwax Tung Oil with great effect and also TruOil...both with 0000 buffing in between coats. Pure Tung Oil works well, but takes forever to cure.

I really try to get the wood as smooth as possible, but find the finer the grit of the sandpaper (say 400, 600 or 800), it tends to reveal the finer pores in the wood grain....which can become quite visible to the eye.

What methods are out there to actually fill the pores ??
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Old July 07, 2018, 21:04   #17
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I'm somewhat different and like the sheen of an exotic grain.

I've used Minwax Tung Oil with great effect and also TruOil...both with 0000 buffing in between coats. Pure Tung Oil works well, but takes forever to cure.

I really try to get the wood as smooth as possible, but find the finer the grit of the sandpaper (say 400, 600 or 800), it tends to reveal the finer pores in the wood grain....which can become quite visible to the eye.

What methods are out there to actually fill the pores ??
Graham
Tx
Mixwax Tung oil is NOT Tung oil.

The OP wanted original military look. Most guys who want a military look DO NOT want a shiny wood stock. I like the Milk's dark tung oil or new military or restored wood, as it helps to darken the wood and give it character.

I avoid using sandpaper on a any military stock, whenever possible. When I do use sandpaper when restoring military wood, I never use anything finer than 400. Exposed are good for the wood, as they trap the oils as they harden, which increases the surface density of the wood. The flywood stock above was lightly sanded with 400.

As stated before, thin True oil 50/50 with mineral spirits (there are other opinions regarding what you cut it with... tree huggers like the citrus stuff). This greatly reduces dry time and helps absorption into the wood.

The 0000 steel wool is only for cleaning up the surface once the wood stops effectively absorbing the oil. The surface will start to become foggy as the oils, and will need to be buffed out.

The pores will continue to fill with future applications of oil and handling. Have you ever handled an old Garand stock was was nearly glass smooth in many areas? It wasn't because it was sanded, it was because it was heavily handled, not abused, and received multiple applications of oil over it's lifetime.
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Old July 07, 2018, 21:46   #18
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I had used green Rit dye a few years ago to stain an AKM stock set, turned out nice. Used boiled linseed oil on it for lack of anything else on hand. Put it away after it was done and it turned pretty dark, more then I would have liked in this case, still looks nice though.
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Old July 07, 2018, 22:44   #19
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There are many different ways to work on your stock/wood piles, opinions and techniques are many and varied.

Doing it yourself, your way, if ya don;t like the way it turns out, strip it down and do it all over again.

Folks are correct, be easy on the sand paper, avoid all sharp corners, and always remember, if you take it off, its damn hard to put it back on again, if its at all possible.

And have fun with it.
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Old July 08, 2018, 10:33   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
Mixwax Tung oil is NOT Tung oil.

The OP wanted original military look. Most guys who want a military look DO NOT want a shiny wood stock. I like the Milk's dark tung oil or new military or restored wood, as it helps to darken the wood and give it character.

I avoid using sandpaper on a any military stock, whenever possible. When I do use sandpaper when restoring military wood, I never use anything finer than 400. Exposed are good for the wood, as they trap the oils as they harden, which increases the surface density of the wood. The flywood stock above was lightly sanded with 400.

As stated before, thin True oil 50/50 with mineral spirits (there are other opinions regarding what you cut it with... tree huggers like the citrus stuff). This greatly reduces dry time and helps absorption into the wood.

The 0000 steel wool is only for cleaning up the surface once the wood stops effectively absorbing the oil. The surface will start to become foggy as the oils, and will need to be buffed out.

The pores will continue to fill with future applications of oil and handling. Have you ever handled an old Garand stock was was nearly glass smooth in many areas? It wasn't because it was sanded, it was because it was heavily handled, not abused, and received multiple applications of oil over it's lifetime.
I think the folks at Minwax would disagree with your comments (unless they are into false advertising), as I'm sure it contains a certain amount of Tung Oil, combined with other agents, designed to assist in the ability of the oil to penetrate the wood, as well as speed-up the drying process. Ayway, that was not the point of my post. I understand what the OP is trying to accomplish, while I was merely explaining what my personal preferences are, and how I achieved it.

My point was...I was asking how to eliminate the tiny pores which tend to build up in new wood, as they become more exposed by finer sanding.

Yellowhand is correct; '....do it your way....'
Graham.
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Old July 08, 2018, 13:18   #21
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I think the folks at Minwax would disagree with your comments (unless they are into false advertising), as I'm sure it contains a certain amount of Tung Oil, combined with other agents, designed to assist in the ability of the oil to penetrate the wood, as well as speed-up the drying process.
Minwax Tung oil is less than 35% Tung oil, 65% naptha (mineral spirits), and 0.2% Cobalt 2-Ethylhexanoate.

Personally, I prefer to avoid the drying agents. They actually inhibit the wood's ability to absorb the oils due to quicker drying time, and also solidifies on the surface, which I avoid. I want the oils solidifying IN the wood, not on the surface.

You can buy the Minwax stuff, or buy pure Tung oil and have control over the product that you ware working with.... plus Milks offers a pure Tung oil with a darker tint, which I find wonderful for refinishing military wood.

If you simply want to slap a couple coats of Minwax on a stock, and buff the surface to make it purty, good for you. It may make 10 or more applications of cut pure Tung oil to achieve the same aesthetic results, but the oils are sealed deeper into the wood, not on the surface.
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Old July 08, 2018, 13:46   #22
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Your stock appears to be beech with a dark dye. Remove existing finish and it will be very blond. Dye is the way to go - it comes out much darker than stain. I use mohawk stain, which is actually a dye (alcohol base).

I suspect if you remove the rear sling mount, you will find underneath a second set of holes for the smaller sling mount. It really looks like an Izzy type C1 converted to an Austrian type C2.
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Old July 08, 2018, 14:04   #23
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Mixwax Tung oil is NOT Tung oil.
May I state you comment is perhaps a contradiction of terms. If Minwax is not a tung oil, Minwax would not be legally able to advertise and market the product as such.

The more coats of applied tung oil the more the wood will experience an increase the luster. However, an application of #0000 steelwool or Birchwood/Casey Stock, Sheen & Conditioner can reduce the dried tung oil luster to a satin finish.
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Old July 08, 2018, 14:51   #24
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May I state you comment is perhaps a contradiction of terms. If Minwax is not a tung oil, Minwax would not be legally able to advertise and market the product as such.

The more coats of applied tung oil the more the wood will experience an increase the luster. However, an application of #0000 steelwool or Birchwood/Casey Stock, Sheen & Conditioner can reduce the dried tung oil luster to a satin finish.
It is Minwax Brand "Tung Oil Finish". Which means it is "something" that replicates the finish made with tung oil. It may or may not contain any actual tung oil.
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Old July 08, 2018, 14:56   #25
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It is Minwax Brand "Tung Oil Finish". Which means it is "something" that replicates the finish made with tung oil. It may or may not contain any actual tung oil.
I don't think it is tung oil either. I researched it a few years ago. It's hard to find real tung oil in a hardware store. You have to order it.
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Old July 08, 2018, 17:04   #26
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May I state you comment is perhaps a contradiction of terms. If Minwax is not a tung oil, Minwax would not be legally able to advertise and market the product as such.

The more coats of applied tung oil the more the wood will experience an increase the luster. However, an application of #0000 steelwool or Birchwood/Casey Stock, Sheen & Conditioner can reduce the dried tung oil luster to a satin finish.
According to the MSDS, Minwax Tung oil is less than 35% Tung oil, 65% naptha (essentially mineral spirits), and 0.2% Cobalt 2-Ethylhexanoate (hardener).

Excellent place for purchasing pure Tun oil. The sight has some excellent pointers on how to apply it. It takes patience.... and if you are not patient, it can be be even more labor intensive (or require much more patience). Once you get used to working with it, the results are very satisfying.

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/blog/t...pure-tung-oil/
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Old July 08, 2018, 17:41   #27
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I,m gona go with milk's dark tung oil and 0000 steel wool , question is
to strip or not to strip... , why not clean lightly ( like lockjaw suggested )
with acetone and then start the process , why strip ?
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Old July 08, 2018, 17:50   #28
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why not clean lightly ( like lockjaw suggested )
with acetone and then start the process , why strip ?
You are trying to get uniform penetration over a pre-existing (albeit poor) sealant and stain finish - you can try it, but best results usually come from knowing what you are starting with. Which usually means stripping to bare wood.
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Old July 08, 2018, 17:54   #29
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I,m gona go with milk's dark tung oil and 0000 steel wool , question is
to strip or not to strip... , why not clean lightly ( like lockjaw suggested )
with acetone and then start the process , why strip ?
It is hard to say without physically observing the stock.

If the stock is a converted Izzy as Mark suggested, the wood is very blond, and dense. It will take more effort to darken it.... if this is the case,you might consider staining with an alcohol based stain (easier to control color, woods absorbs it better, darken with subsequent applications, easy to clean away if you go to dark).

As Mark also suggested, removed the swivel assembly and look at recess. Izzy's used a different swivel. If it was converted, you will see additional holes in the wood for the previous screw locations.
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Old July 08, 2018, 18:06   #30
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So....Minwax is less than 35% Tung Oil, which indicates it does contain Tung Oil, while the rest of the make up being the drying agents.

I am intrigued by the products sold by 'Milks' and will look into ordering and trying their products.

I agree, 'pure' Tung oil is hard to find at your local stores and has to be ordered or find it at a specialty wood working store (my local specialty wood & 'real' hardware store closed many years ago).

One other problem with ordering pure Tung oil is, they don't sell it in small bottles and you have to be careful to insure you squeeze all the air out, so it doesn't set.

I can buy Birchwod Casy Tru Oil at my local Academy store but they don't sell individual bottles of their Stock Sheen & Conditioner....it comes in a kit with dye & Tru Oil.

Is the conditioner any good ??
What exactly does it do ?
Graham.
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Old July 08, 2018, 18:35   #31
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Just ordered from Milks....what a great place to buy from...they even offer their products in smaller volumes...

They have everything you need, including Oxalic Acid and their prices are very reasonable.

Thanks for the tip !!

Graham.
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Old July 08, 2018, 19:06   #32
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A few more pictures ... , this is the way I recieved the stock , haven't
done anything to it other than fit it to the rifle and put my swivel on it ,
the buttpad and swivel fit good enough for me , no idea of what the
stock was originally




























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Old July 08, 2018, 20:17   #33
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I can buy Birchwod Casy Tru Oil at my local Academy store but they don't sell individual bottles of their Stock Sheen & Conditioner....it comes in a kit with dye & Tru Oil.

Is the conditioner any good ??
What exactly does it do ?
Graham.
I buy everything online and many sellers provide free shipping. Brownell's does not.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ioner&_sacat=0

Originally it is recommended for old gun stocks to clean off some of the dirt off the stock, fill in the pores and leave a faint sheen. It worked well on one of my old Mausers.
i knew it is an abrasive and will scrub a dirty stock satisfactory, but is not intended to remove old oil. I tried it on some FN stocks I finished with True-Oil which I was not to satisfied with the finished gloss. The Conditioner tones the True-Oil gloss down to a satin finish which I was happy with.

I also had used the Conditioner on two of Flypaper's stocks, one a FN C stock and the other a Canadian N stock. Both stocks were only stained dark walnut and sealed with Conditiomer. No oil was used in the finishing.
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Old July 08, 2018, 20:42   #34
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Does the conditioner help fill the pores ?
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Old July 08, 2018, 22:42   #35
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No need to rush , gonna run it as is and possibly have a discussion around the
fire with a few friends and some beverages should be a interesting conversation
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Old July 09, 2018, 00:34   #36
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No need to rush , gonna run it as is and possibly have a discussion around the
fire with a few friends and some beverages should be a interesting conversation
That we can help with.
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Old July 09, 2018, 07:37   #37
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Does the conditioner help fill the pores ?
Graham.
Yes, rub with and against the wood grain. I do it a couple of times on unoiled wood.
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Old July 09, 2018, 08:45   #38
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A few more pictures ... , this is the way I recieved the stock , haven't
done anything to it other than fit it to the rifle and put my swivel on it ,
the buttpad and swivel fit good enough for me , no idea of what the
stock was originally
I hope you didn't pay more than about $10 for that piece of shit. And that $10 is for the StG buttpad. Yes, it's a badly modified Izzy Type C1 - around $40 new.

Don't know whether you'd be better off with burn-in sticks or bedding compound for that sling mount area.
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Old July 09, 2018, 10:40   #39
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It was free , works for me
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Old July 09, 2018, 12:25   #40
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Different product from Birchwood Casey, than their Sheen & Conditioner;

This appears to be a sealer, while also filling the pores ??

http://birchwood-casey7.mybigcommerc...-fl-oz-bottle/

Anyone tried this for filling the pores ?

Graham
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Old July 09, 2018, 12:52   #41
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Different product from Birchwood Casey, than their Sheen & Conditioner;

This appears to be a sealer, while also filling the pores ??

http://birchwood-casey7.mybigcommerc...-fl-oz-bottle/

Anyone tried this for filling the pores ?

Graham
Sure it does and the shipping on that link is $7.00
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Old July 14, 2018, 16:52   #42
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320 or 400 ?

I decided to move forward rather than wait to refinsh my stock ,
I went ahead and sanded the old finish off , started with 220 then
went 320 grit , received some Milks Dark Tung Oil , will thin 50/50
with mineral spirits , question is to go to a 400 grit for a final sand
or stay at 320 , its smooth enough for me and I dont want a sheen
to it , and I'm shoot'in for a really dark finish
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Old July 14, 2018, 17:54   #43
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Did you sand it down to the bare wood ?
If so, you could always apply a coat of stain....I did this recently using Varathane stain. It's oil based.

It was a complete wood set I got from FlyPaper, and even though it was Black English Walnut, it was extremely light in color, especially the hand guards. I just wanted to give it a subtle darker color,

I bought 4 different color stains, including one called 'Gunstock'. I tested it on the inside of the hand guards and finally chose Red Chestnut (not what you are looking for) but I suspect the Gunstock or Cognac would be dark enough for most. Varathane have many color choices. Minwax also has a selection.

Milks Tung Oil is labor intensive (according to the instructions) but it does not leave a high gloss.....I'm guessing it can, if you apply enough coats and lightly buff with 0000 steel wool between coats....been there and done it with 'Pure Tung Oil'.
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Old July 14, 2018, 18:46   #44
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Did you sand it down to the bare wood ?
If so, you could always apply a coat of stain....I did this recently using Varathane stain. It's oil based.

It was a complete wood set I got from FlyPaper, and even though it was Black English Walnut, it was extremely light in color, especially the hand guards. I just wanted to give it a subtle darker color,

I bought 4 different color stains, including one called 'Gunstock'. I tested it on the inside of the hand guards and finally chose Red Chestnut (not what you are looking for) but I suspect the Gunstock or Cognac would be dark enough for most. Varathane have many color choices. Minwax also has a selection.

Milks Tung Oil is labor intensive (according to the instructions) but it does not leave a high gloss.....I'm guessing it can, if you apply enough coats and lightly buff with 0000 steel wool between coats....been there and done it with 'Pure Tung Oil'.
I ordered 1/2 pint of Varathane Gunstock to see how that comes out on a stock. I usually use Minwax special walnut which provides a medium walnut appearance.
I used Behlen furniture stain (water based) which really penetrates the wood. I selected Nutmeg Brown and the stock at first looked beet red, but I rinsed it until it faded to a nice reddish brown.
It didn't take very long to sell it.

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Old July 14, 2018, 19:31   #45
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Wow that turned out beautiful ! , I did sand mine down to bare wood ,
looking for more of a " almost black color " but still want to see the
grain , dont know if that is possible




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Old July 15, 2018, 09:54   #46
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I ordered 1/2 pint of Varathane Gunstock to see how that comes out on a stock. I usually use Minwax special walnut which provides a medium walnut appearance.
I like the special walnut as well, but not for beech. The erratic grain structure makes it come out too mottled IMO. Dye makes for more even penetration. But for light walnut, yes, I also like it very much. Sometimes add some red mahogany to it. Also for mixing with oil and JD for application in a sanding slurry.

I had one for a build so I thought I'd take a few pics.

New izzy stock (representative, not same one)

Stripped with Easy off (no sanding)

Mohawk "perfect brown" alcohol dye

3-5 coats BC tru oil - the end grain at the humps need more.

wet sand with slurry of BC tru oil and mineral spirits to break the gloss a bit

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Old July 15, 2018, 14:45   #47
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Milks Paint have a conditioner for softer woods, so when applying (say) stain and their Tung Oil, it allows for an even penetration and reduces the chances of getting a 'mottled' finish.

Being a harder (surface) wood, I found it's not necessary for Walnut.

The term 'hard wood' has nothing to do with how hard a particular wood is, it's something to do with the leaves and being deciduous ??
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Old July 15, 2018, 14:50   #48
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Maybe I'll try some aniline dye , powder dissolved in water , would
American Walnut be close in color to the stock that Gunplumber
did above , man that sure turned nice

Then after the dye apply the dark tung oil

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Old July 15, 2018, 14:53   #49
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Think I'll give Milk's a call on Monday
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Old July 15, 2018, 19:21   #50
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[QUOTE=krisincolfax;4605509]A few more pictures ... , this is the way I recieved the stock , haven't
done anything to it other than fit it to the rifle and put my swivel on it ,
the buttpad and swivel fit good enough for me , no idea of what the
stock was originally

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Might I suggest that if you are particular about the finish . . . . . . .
BUY another stock ! If this is a rifla you are going to keep and say i did this,
then get at least one more stock.
Use the hacked original as the prototype . . . . it has two side to test on ! ! !
Then keep the eye out for a correct, quality condition and grained example.

and your question ....yes there are wood conditioners, once the surface is
prepped and this is applied it will close deeper grain openings, and assist with a more even stain and top coats.

I've done tung oil, finger applications with steel wool and tac in between for
8 to 12 coats. (1 day dry time inbetween) a smoothe even finish with just
a pinch of grain still there.
attached a 1930 something Topper, it was as sad as some kits when i got it.

good luck & take your time
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