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Old July 10, 2018, 16:25   #1
gunplumber
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Interesting FAL boltcarrier

I'm really starting to believe the oval proof is not unique to Austrian.

This came with a non-matching FN bolt and lower, with so much rust that I believe it to be from a SARCO Cuban kit (Belgian Long flash on cut barrel).

If you look carefully around the number, you'll see diagonal sanding marks which suggests to me that this carrier was re-stamped at some point. But the transition to the forward radius is so good, that I can't be sure. Point is, they are not from a cutting tool, but from hand-sanding.



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Old July 10, 2018, 16:54   #2
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Looks to me like the oval/number may be originally stamped, but the angled sanding marks further up the carrier's spine is indicative of removing a number and possibly force matching this newly stamped number.


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Old July 10, 2018, 17:15   #3
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I've owned and / or held probably 500+ Krag Jorgensen rifles in my hands over the past 25 years before I completed my small collection of a half dozen guns. Normally the tops of the extractors are beautifully polished to a mirror finish and then fireblued, but several rifles I've seen have very rough sanding marks just behind the retaining pin lug of the extractor. These marks are underneath the original blueing / heat treat.

Whats my point? Never underestimate even a top shelf arsenals ability to hire a schleprock who thinks theres no mixup a belt sander cant fixup.
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Old July 10, 2018, 17:32   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
....I'm really starting to believe the oval proof is not unique to Austrian....
It's not. The # inside oval has been documented many times on FN produced Israeli carriers. IIRC L/FN was the first to point it out.

I know it's on at least 1 more carrier identical to yours because I tried to buy it. It was a high number StG-58 carrier. Your carrier looks very StG-58 to me.

Single or double cammed?
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Old July 10, 2018, 18:06   #5
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Mark Iíve got a metric sandcut bolt and carrier....Iíll check it when I get home...
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Old July 10, 2018, 18:17   #6
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The font looks odd to me. Like Turk or Indian or something odd.
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Old July 10, 2018, 19:06   #7
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Any FN box or diamond proofs at front or rear?
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Old July 11, 2018, 20:45   #8
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Iíve got one Iíd like to know about also.




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Old July 11, 2018, 20:48   #9
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Quote:
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Any FN box or diamond proofs at front or rear?
no
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Old July 11, 2018, 20:49   #10
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Originally Posted by Gravelface1 View Post
I’ve got one I’d like to know about also.
renumbered aussie, bolt carrier, batch number - 1960 or earlier. You can see the faint outline of the original Aussie electro-pencilled number underneath the new stamping. 5903762 would be New Zealand, so that is legit. First batch of 209 rifles, presumably for T&E , then yours is in the next batch of 480. So probably the first NZ rifles to actually be issued. Next batch of 500 in 1960. And then another 1000 shipped late in 1960
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Old July 11, 2018, 21:05   #11
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no
Single or double cammed?
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Old July 11, 2018, 21:06   #12
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Much appreciated,

The wealth of knowledge around here is amazing.
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Old July 11, 2018, 21:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwobhm View Post
Single or double cammed?
sorry, double.
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Old July 12, 2018, 07:53   #14
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sorry, double.
It's an StG-58 carrier. They rarely turn up. IIRC the asking price for one over 5 years ago was $175.
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Old July 12, 2018, 08:24   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwobhm View Post
It's an StG-58 carrier.
Based on what?

As I stated before, this matches the condition of the other parts in the kit, that look like FN made for Cuba. And FN used the same proof. So what would make you think the Austrians rusted this one up special? The font is not typical Austrian, although it can pass for German.
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Old July 12, 2018, 09:17   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
Based on what?

As I stated before, this matches the condition of the other parts in the kit, that look like FN made for Cuba. And FN used the same proof. So what would make you think the Austrians rusted this one up special? The font is not typical Austrian, although it can pass for German.
So you are basing your opinion on what Sarco throws into a box? Sarco has piles of crap everywhere with little organization. Most of the time they don't know what they have. I was in the main warehouse in NJ before they moved to PA. Fun from a collector standpoint.....but you certainly wouldn't sort your product they way they did when I had access.

I don't recall Cuban guns to have had sand cut carriers. Maybe someone with more knowledge regarding Cuban builds can chime in.

That type of carrier is scarce. Only a couple options for them to turn up. FN carriers with # inside an oval are, from my experience, exclusive to Israeli kits. Those Israeli carriers, IIRC, are all single cammed. Also, IIRC, they also had the box proofs too.

There were a few sand cut StG carriers. # inside oval, double cammed points to Steyr.

There are also some matched sets floating around out there too. I know EX-1 had at least 1 set but I no longer remember the details.

No one can say for absolute certain where it came from at this point. IMHO it is a sand cut StG-58 carrier and if I were still into collecting I wouldn't blink at buying it. I have no use for it whatsoever and I want it.

YMMV
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Old July 12, 2018, 12:45   #17
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184294 bolt and carrier.....bolt is FN proofed with Perron Mark and date code on the side I can’t make out....carrier has what looks like an oval 8 inside the carrier but it’s not struck deep so I’m not sure....possibly a triangle 1 at the rear top of the carrier but it’s faint as well...nothing at the rear of the carrier.....double cam....
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Old July 12, 2018, 17:35   #18
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....Did you really come here without bringing the pictures?
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Old July 12, 2018, 22:07   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwobhm View Post
So you are basing your opinion on what Sarco throws into a box?
No, I am basing my "suspicion" on a collection of parts that all bears the same extreme corrosion that is typical of Cuban and atypical of Austrian. Must be the Nordic predisposition to anal retentiveness, but nobody claims the Austrians let their rifles get rusty.

I am well aware of what SARCO puts into kits, as I traded a lot of the parts for MG Dave to finish them out, sell them to customers, who then ship them to me for builds. Argy and Cuban mostly.

Quote:
I don't recall Cuban guns to have had sand cut carriers.
And I don't recall StG carriers being sand cut.

What I'm attempting to do is get validation on is the basis for asserting such and such is Austrian. Not "well I read it on FF. Too many WAGs become "fact" through repetation with no basis.

IF the oval proof is not only Austrian, but also FN, then a FN carrier with oval proof going to Cuba is not in conflict.

Quote:
FN carriers with # inside an oval are, from my experience, exclusive to Israeli kits. Those Israeli carriers, IIRC, are all single cammed. Also, IIRC, they also had the box proofs too.

I learned long ago never top say never or always with regard to FAL parts. I am seeking the basis for an assertion, not suggesting the assertion is false.

Quote:
IMHO it is a sand cut StG-58 carrier and if I were still into collecting I wouldn't blink at buying it. I have no use for it whatsoever and I want it.
You wouldn't want it anymore as I've already renumbered it to a DSA receiver for a generic build. I just wanted to document any unusual parts prior. Heck, I just got in a CAI sporter with EXC+ Belgian brown HGs on it.
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Old July 13, 2018, 15:34   #20
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Old July 13, 2018, 16:27   #21
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The numbers are difficult to compare. Since we know the StG stops at 170,000 the 184k range isn't likely StG.

Box or diamond proofs at front or rear?
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Old July 13, 2018, 16:41   #22
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Nothing on the back of the carrier....on top appears to be a triangle with a 1 in it....diamond proof on side of bolt...canít make out the date code...
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Old July 13, 2018, 18:41   #23
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I had 4 at one point all matching # bolts were all Belgian proofed carrier was not.I have one left it is in rough shape but will get pics later.They all came from John Hudgens so likely Armscorp or Sarco.This was close to 18 years ago.EX1
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Old July 13, 2018, 18:43   #24
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Mine looks like embatps pictured above.EX1
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Old July 13, 2018, 21:01   #25
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Any ideas? Replacement parts? Civilian?
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Old July 15, 2018, 11:30   #26
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I would guess a special contract but have no proof of this.EX1
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Old July 15, 2018, 11:39   #27
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Quote:
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Nothing on the back of the carrier....on top appears to be a triangle with a 1 in it....diamond proof on side of bolt...canít make out the date code...
Who is the controller on the bolt?
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Old July 15, 2018, 18:03   #28
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Who is the controller on the bolt?
Canít find any obvious marks that I can make out....
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Old July 20, 2018, 19:30   #29
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Another Interesting Bolt Carrier

Can one of you guys ID this Bolt Carrier? What is the significance of the lower stamp?



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Old July 20, 2018, 20:17   #30
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FN G1 Border Guard IIRC

D* = FN Controller = Marchal Renť 1951-1968
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