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Old August 23, 2019, 11:45   #1
Douglas S Graham
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School me on trap shooting.

Watched college kids shooting to try and get on the Olympic team. Wow. And noticed their guns. Perazzi?? Holy Hanna!!! The price on their guns is outta there.
So, how much does one have to spend on a shotgun to be competitive?? YES, I know that skill is probably 90 percent of the game, but what gun do you need to fill in the rest??
I'm the kind of person who likes to (typically) buy the best I can afford, so I can't blame not doing well on the equipment.

TIA for all comments.
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Old August 23, 2019, 11:56   #2
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It sounds cliche' but it's really all up to the shooter. I tried a buddy's Citori and it beat my face up, couldn't hit shit. Tried his Ljutic and it felt perfect with the same load, hit 23 of 25 the first time I ever fired the gun.
My best advice is to hang around your club on shoot nights and try out a few shotguns. Make friends, listen to the better shooters. Some guys can hit all day with and 870, others need to spend way more.
Like you said, you cant buy ability. But you can buy comfort and if you aren't comfortable you won't perform well.
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Old August 23, 2019, 12:00   #3
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Get into car racing instead, it's cheaper..
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Old August 23, 2019, 12:02   #4
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I used to shoot trap with a Beretta DT-10 then came to realize I shot better with my Beretta 391. If you want to get into trap with a quality shotgun without breaking the bank, check out the 870 Classic Trap or a Browning BT-99, if you find that you like either of them they'll serve you quite well.
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Old August 23, 2019, 12:26   #5
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A shotgun that fits you well is mandatory. I can go 24 or 25/25 all day with my Benelli Nova, but I'm lucky to make half that with a Mossberg, simply because the Benelli stock fits like it was custom-made for me.
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Old August 23, 2019, 17:03   #6
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For many years I shot AA Grade (started shooting Trap as a 12 year old). At 13 I bought a new Winchester 101 Sporter (field gun) with the then new Winchokes. I shot that in DTL, Olympic Trap, Skeet, Ball Trap and Field Shoots (an of course hunted with it). That is what I made AA Grade shooting and it is what I still shoot today. I only shoot Trap maybe twice a year now and am still competitive at A Grade level. You should buy a quality gun that fits you well, then start doing your part. The gun makes perhaps makes up that last half a percent that splits the very very VERY good from the top tier shooters.
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Old August 23, 2019, 18:56   #7
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So , how do you know if a gun "fits" you or not?? I get the concept, but does somebody fit it for you and school you on the FIT??
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Old August 23, 2019, 19:16   #8
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So , how do you know if a gun "fits" you or not?? I get the concept, but does somebody fit it for you and school you on the FIT??
Try and get into shops where you can handle them and throw them up on your shoulder. Even better, if you can get to some trap shoots, many folks will be happy to let you handle/shoot them. If you’re looking to be professionally fitted, you’ll easily be dropping $10k+ and you’ll be buying a sidelock.
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Old August 23, 2019, 19:37   #9
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So , how do you know if a gun "fits" you or not?? I get the concept, but does somebody fit it for you and school you on the FIT??
I'm a dove hunter and a very occasional sporting clay shooter. The gun that "fits" me and that I can do the best with is not what the pros use. It's an 870, one of which I have been shooting since I was a teenager. I've had and shot several higher end shotguns, but could not hit with them like I can with an 870. Would it compete with the pros? Hell no. But it does "fit" me, and I am far, far, far from being a pro. It works for ME and I am shooting a sporting clay match tomorrow with an 870.

I suppose the moral of this story is, find what fits YOU, not what is "best" or "most expensive" or "what the pros use".

YMMV.
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Old August 23, 2019, 20:14   #10
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Get into car racing instead, it's cheaper..
No it’s not. Not even same ballpark.
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Old August 23, 2019, 21:02   #11
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I'm a dove hunter and a very occasional sporting clay shooter. The gun that "fits" me and that I can do the best with is not what the pros use. It's an 870, one of which I have been shooting since I was a teenager. I've had and shot several higher end shotguns, but could not hit with them like I can with an 870. Would it compete with the pros? Hell no. But it does "fit" me, and I am far, far, far from being a pro. It works for ME and I am shooting a sporting clay match tomorrow with an 870.

I suppose the moral of this story is, find what fits YOU, not what is "best" or "most expensive" or "what the pros use".

YMMV.
I know guys that van blow the socks off Guerini and Kolar shooters with an 870. It’s more the guy behind the trigger, but fit is a big thang. Ya don’t want to crawl the stock to look down the rib, having a shotgun fit makes a world of difference, BTDT. I don’t shoot no $10,000 match grade shotgun, my SKB 85 TSS is considered entry level.
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Old August 23, 2019, 21:51   #12
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Do you currently have a shotgun? Find a range that
has trap machines and run 25 birds and let us know
how you do.
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Old August 23, 2019, 22:52   #13
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The trap shooting circles usually cast a jaundiced eye toward the hoi polloi.

If you drive a Mercedes, and are equipped with a German or Italian shotgun, your chances of fitting in tend to improve.
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Old August 23, 2019, 23:30   #14
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Try and get into shops where you can handle them and throw them up on your shoulder. Even better, if you can get to some trap shoots, many folks will be happy to let you handle/shoot them. If you’re looking to be professionally fitted, you’ll easily be dropping $10k+ and you’ll be buying a sidelock.
Nonsense. For a start, a custom, professionally fit sidelock is going to run you much more than 10K. For a second, I grew up shooting shotguns in the UK where being fitted for a shotgun is as common and well known as getting a suit altered to fit you. The first thing you need is a good instructor who knows how to "fit" you for a shotgun. As Andy and others have said, they shoot best with a gun they have had for a long time as they adapted their shooting style to accommodate the shotgun they had grown used to over the years.

I too had that issue; I grew up shooting my Dad's Beretta S56E O/U shotgun he bought in the 1960's for trap shooting. When I got my Beretta A303 sporting shotgun, I altered the stock to match the S56E and could shoot anything. After my dad died, I inherited his Churchill 25 side by side shotgun he had custom made for him by the London gunmakers of the same name. He made 3 trips to the factory to have it absolutely fitted to him and he could shoot it like it was an extension of him. I tried to use it but it didn't fit me so I went with it to a gun fitter to have it matched to me. The guy I chose was a local, very experienced gunsmith and he had invented an electronic gun fitting tool that was supposed to be perfect. We tried it out and he took measurements, then fitted the stock. I went to pick it up, tried it at clays and couldn't hit a damn thing. Went back with my A303 and told him to match the Churchill to it which he did. Now the Churchill and I get along...

Here is a list of level 3 Sporting Clays instructors who can help you get fitted to whatever shotgun you chose. Will cost you a couple hundred bucks, not much more. Gun fit is MUCH more critical in Sporting Clays than trap because you have to mount the gun with Sporting whereas with trap, it's usually already mounted. As long as the stock isn't too long or short or have too much drop or too high a comb and isn't cast off or on, it's a damn sight easier to shoot a trap gun well than a sporting gun, at least IMHO.


http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/level-3-instructors/
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Old August 24, 2019, 04:54   #15
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Gman- thanks for posting up the link. I was thinking more along the lines of makers fitting for guns. For the record, anyone interested in fittings in Virginia, John Alexander is an awesome instructor and all around stand up guy.
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Old August 24, 2019, 06:58   #16
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A buddy of mine is shooting trap at a local club. Pretty much a farm boy hayseed, but I would want him on my side any day of the week. He takes an 870 with a sling on it up to the line and just about got laughed off of the property....until he busted 25 of 25. He tells me he regularly outshoots some of the fudds with their 10k "Trap" guns. He wants to move up to something better, but likes his 870 just fine.

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Old August 24, 2019, 08:19   #17
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Ok, another question. BT99 can be had for 1200.00 new. A Citori (plain Jane) O/U can be had for 1795.00 . Which one?? Or a Winchester 101 ??
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Old August 24, 2019, 08:29   #18
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Ok, another question. BT99 can be had for 1200.00 new. A Citori (plain Jane) O/U can be had for 1795.00 . Which one?? Or a Winchester 101 ??
A Citori or Winchester 101 will be more versatile as they are dual-bbl O/U shotguns, whereas a BT-99 is a dedicated Trap gun. If you want to shoot sporting clays in addition to trap you’re much better served with the Citori or 101 for doubles than being restricted to a single-shot BT-99 trap gun.
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Old August 24, 2019, 15:46   #19
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The trap shooting circles usually cast a jaundiced eye toward the hoi polloi.

If you drive a Mercedes, and are equipped with a German or Italian shotgun, your chances of fitting in tend to improve.


HA HA HA--^^^^^^^^ !!! What WEG Said !!!! been there seen that !!
I have an 870TB that does me just fine ,,and I Love My Winchester 101 !! My Buddy Likes My 101 so Much he bought a 101 Trap mdl when I said i might buy it and sell the one I have -! hahaha I made him Pull out His wallet..
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Old August 24, 2019, 18:11   #20
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last time i shot trap with my brother i broke 24 with a marlin 90 that i sold a year later for 200 bux.
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Old August 24, 2019, 20:10   #21
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Old August 24, 2019, 21:00   #22
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OK, I'm not an elitist for heavens sake. I don't really know much about this shiiiite. But, I don't need or desire to be a pro., only want the best CHOICE. And no, I don't care if I had an 870 trap and showed up and got laughed at, FFFGGGMMM.
I DO think O/U's look sexy though.
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Old August 24, 2019, 21:35   #23
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While any 870 will work fine, the 870 Trap guns are pretty nice. At least they used to be. Unsure of the post-Freedom Group quality. The two standard 870s I’ve owned since the FG acquisition had to be duracoated as they rusted almost instantly.
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Old August 25, 2019, 16:36   #24
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Trap is too boring for me. Not that it isn't challenging just not anywhere near as fun as Sporting Clays. I bought a Beretta 686 Sporting (wide frame) eons ago and don't really contemplate shooting anything else. Had the stock fitted (shortened since I'm a runt and stocks are normally made for the 5'9" giants) by Lance Keller at Martinez Gun Club and it made shooting more comfortable and accurate. A change to Briley titanium chokes in place of Beretta Victory's helped a lot too.

I don't agree that you necessarily need a German or Italian gun. Lots of guys on the clays circuit shoot Brownings. My beginner buddy just bought a CZ and can shoot the lights out with it. I agree, though, as others have said, its not the gun so much as the shooter. A quality gun, which is definitely tied to price, just pushes you over the edge when the edge is very narrow.
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Old August 25, 2019, 16:51   #25
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To your point adbm3, trap is a sport that is in decline. I’d shoot it more but there aren’t any easily accessible trap ranges around me. I can see how it can be boring compared to sporting clays but folks that fixated on perfection (like anything under 95/100 is bad to them), absolutely love it.
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Old August 25, 2019, 17:17   #26
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To your point adbm3, trap is a sport that is in decline. I’d shoot it more but there aren’t any easily accessible trap ranges around me. I can see how it can be boring compared to sporting clays but folks that fixated on perfection (like anything under 95/100 is bad to them), absolutely love it.
There’s a batch at the local club that are what I would call the more anal trap shooters. Most are either divorced or without mate, the reason likely being their life revolves around their scores. They drive all over the state to registered spots, just got back from the BIG one, “The Grand” at Sparta Illinois. They shoot for money. Asked a couple of them recently how it went. Said it was ugly. I ‘splained to them that’s why I shoot for shits and giggles. Said they might start.

It’s all a hobby, that’s a given, I never intend to make a dime on it. Nor am I trying to prove myself to anyone with straight 100s on anything. I shoot mostly sporting clays weekly, occasional trap, and when I put on a sanitary napkin, I go up and shoot skeet. I have nothing Italian, I don’t shoot the beloved AA or Remington Nitro’s like the guys WEG was talking about. I reload all the straight wall euro trash hulls that are free by the truckloads on any range. I am a member on several scattergun forums, and WEG is spot on with his description of many trap shooter, many, but not all. I call their bullshit on the boards, and am accordingly chastised for it.

Enjoy the sport and shoot what you can afford, spend the extra money on ammo.
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Old August 25, 2019, 17:33   #27
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I always enjoy busting clays, trap, skeet, 5-stand and crazy quail. I like my 12ga Beretta semi the best, but just personal preference. I really believe the length of pull is important. Briley is close by, took it to them and they custom made a butt pad for my length of pull. Happy clay bustin'
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Old August 25, 2019, 18:03   #28
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I like my 12ga Berretta semi the best
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Old August 25, 2019, 18:49   #29
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trap is a good place to start to sharpen your shotgun skills, sporting clays will get you to new levels of skill far and above trap, never shot skeet but having evil friends w/ a Tirus trap and several hand throwers and some w/o throwers when you can hammer everything they can put out there trying to mess you up …. thats when you are ready for real game

the local club that I used to frequent is known as one of the toughest clays courses by most shooters, 2nd 4th & 5th Sundays of the month

the course changed every week, not a permanent routine to get accustomed to, some days I would think Joe just woke up feeling extra evil w/ the layouts, the guys always laughed when I would say that

I shot w/ my well beaten Remington 1100 or a old Ithaca model 37 on pump gun only day, if you could do 22 out of 25 every time you were doing damn good, 25 out of 25 you were a super-star and lots of guys that shot $5K to $10K over/unders had trouble getting 22 out of 25 and I made them look bad w/ my chopped down model 37

once I had a old man w/ a H&R single shot .410 give me a hell of a run for my money, I thought he was a ringer right away and I was right
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Old August 25, 2019, 20:18   #30
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sorry, had to be done.
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Old August 26, 2019, 05:53   #31
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No it’s not. Not even same ballpark.
Agreed...been shooting friendly games of skeet and trap with friends for years and have excellent results with a older imported Spanish shotgun from American Arms that cost me $350 used back then. After 25 years of beating on the poor thing, chanber selector works fine, handles great and has a wonderful trigger. It can run with the "big dogs" well enough. That being said, if you want to compete and just not bust clays with buddies and friends, talk to some folks at local clubs to get ideas of gear and group discounts on ammo.

The American Arms Silver Shotgun:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/10687956

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Old August 26, 2019, 11:40   #32
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Valmet: I'm not sure Trap is a dying sport. I'm not doubting you but when I see all the folks at the two trap ranges in my area it makes me wonder. The amount of folks at the Martinez competitions is astounding. To me Trap is the "traditional" way of shooting akin to baseball from the 1860's, which is nowhere near how its played now. Shotgun sports have evolved over time to be more interesting and dynamic. IMO, that's a great thing. I can't tell you how many follks I've got excited about shooting clays in what is otherwise considered California communist central.

Funny side story: Jury duty for a real bad boy accused of armed robbery in Superior court at the county seat. During jury selection the judge asked the prospective jurors if they have any knowledge over firearms. I lost count over how many people, many women included, indicated they had not only knowledge, but actively went to shoot shotgun at the range. They were all dismissed.

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Old August 26, 2019, 13:00   #33
Douglas S Graham
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So a semi. if I intend to shoot trap, sporting clays?? O/U's are sexy, but seem to come with a hefty price tag. I don't drive a Mercedes, so not worried about the hoity toity crowd. That Beretta xtrema looks pretty wild!! (Or, maybe the guy shooting it makes the gun look good, LOL).
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Old August 27, 2019, 07:44   #34
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Remington 1100. 28-30" bbl. Shell catcher. Hi-Viz front sight. All you need to have a blast, and be competitive.

I will say that the most fun I had shooting trap was the time my 1100 was apart as I was cleaning the gas system and replacing the O-rings when my buddy called me to go shoot. I grabbed an old JC Higgins Model 60, flipped the Hi-Viz off the 1100 and headed out. I think I shot the best I have ever shot that night and I had guys coming over to ask me about the "custom" gun I was shooting!! Gotta love Sears and Roebucks!
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Old August 27, 2019, 22:58   #35
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After shooting a local cowboy action match, we all decided to try our hand at trap or skeet or whatever it's called... Yes I was using a short-barreled double barrel 12 gauge with black powder rounds and 7 shot. I didn't do so hot but I don't think it was the gun ...... but it was kind of fun watching the other trapshooters sneer at my black powder loads
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Old August 28, 2019, 15:46   #36
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Do not try to shoot trap with a field stocked gun.

Dedicated trap guns have a high comb stock, to raise your point of aim; clay birds are rising.

I once had a BT99 with a very high comb that I needed; I won a handicap shoot-off at the old NYC Athletic Club spring shoot upstate with it, and won a Benelli semi auto.

A Remington 870 Trap is enough gun. Rudy Etchen was an old famous shooter and he won plenty of singles, handicap and doubles with his 870.

Remington also offered 1100 trap and other semi trap guns with the correct buttstocks. Remington 90T was an amazing gun made by Kolar.

I have a Winchester 101 Diamond Grade Trap set, with the under single and O&U barrels.

I also have a Remington 3200 special trap that beats the shit out of me.

I have shot xpensive trap guns. Kolar, Kreighoff, Perazzi, etc. Krieghofs are amazing and fit me very well.

Then do you shoot two eyed or one eyes? Parallax is a problem with many shooters. Dominate eye must be determined.

You will have to reload.
MEC single station press is ok. later on a progressive MEC is a must, if you stick with it.

My recommendations are..... used 870 Trap, used 1100 Trap, or BT-99.

Trap shooting is a disease; learn to drink beer.
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Old August 28, 2019, 15:59   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V guy View Post
Do not try to shoot trap with a field stocked gun.

Dedicated trap guns have a high comb stock, to raise your point of aim; clay birds are rising.
Interesting!

When I got more serious about dove hunting a decade or so ago (when we became empty nesters) , I decided I needed an O/U like most of the crowd used and bought a Franchi Alcione 21ga and a Remington (Russian copy) in 20ga.

I shot the O/U guns a couple of years and notably missed more birds by shooting over them. The "high comb/straight stock" is what I blamed as the back of the barrel never came up to my eye and I was therefore shooting over most of the birds.

I went back to an 870 Wingmaster and my shooting notably improved from the O/U guns.

We are shooting another round of sporting clays on Friday this week, with 4 or 5 pairs of birds at each of 12 stations. Total of 100 clays. I think I will try each station with both an 870 and an O/U, just to see how I shoot in a more "fixed" setting than random doves flying past.

Dove hunting nor sporting clays are not the same as trap shooting (birds are not "always raising"), but it will still be an interesting experiment
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Old August 30, 2019, 19:14   #38
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if you can afford it...

http://www.ljuticgun.com/
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Old September 02, 2019, 20:05   #39
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Began shooting Trap with a Mossberg 500 Riot= FAIL

Picked up a Brazilian O/U and did 20 birds constantly and 23 in skeet. I had to break the action over my knee to open the action.

Traded that for a OLD BT-99. Went straight a lot on basic trap and then it wouldn't eject.

Traded BT-99 in on a 34" Ithaca-SKB M600 w/ Imp-Mod & full built in chokes. I then consistantly went straight in trap.

Saved up and bought a 26" Browning Citori Skeet gun;. One of the early ones without engraving with, with fixed Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 chokes. After 2 weeks, I went straight with it.

Got to the point where I was shooting 4-5 rnds of trap on Thurs and 4-5 rounds of skeet on Sunday and either going straight or 24 birds in both.

Entered a few "Pay Matches" and broke even on them.

10 years later after giving up Trap and Skeet, I tried Sporting Clays and found the Ithica-SKB worked the best. Don't shoot it enuf regularly to be as good as I used to but still had fun.

5 Stand and Sporting Clays are fun and challenging, but it's still fun to go back to Trap and Skeet and still be competitive.
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Old September 03, 2019, 05:43   #40
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If your interested in a used BT99,....
There was what looked like a minty one on Whittikers rack this past saturday, tagged at $599....Which seemed really cheap.
Only noticed it because it was right next to a sporting clays gun that Inv77 was fondeling....
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Old September 04, 2019, 18:14   #41
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You need to find a Fitter...

My father finally convinced me to see a fitter when I was about age 40. With that and a little coaching, my scores went from 12 or 13 to a solid 21 or 22, and sometimes 25.

The typical commercially sold shotgun in the US is made for a male, right-handed and right-eyed, approximately 5ft 8in tall, weighing about 180 pounds. If you deviate from that, you will need a fitter. Also, since you are interested in Trap, you'll need a higher comb. If you have bad habits already, you'll also need further changes.

A fitter will first determine which is your master eye. It is not uncommon for it not to be on the same side as you master hand.
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Old September 04, 2019, 20:20   #42
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You must have a typical, off the shelf, field style shotgun of any type, to shoot sporting clays well, (and skeet); you should have range of choke tubes to change from skeet to full.

Dedicated skeet guns are usually just 26-28" bbls, but sporting clays guns do well too, (typical field stocked gun).

Major trap meets will show you what and why works with the high comb stock; most people shooting trap with a field stocked gun, always shoot under the bird, not over it, (late).

The high dollar ($10,000) trap guns all have the high stock; quick snap shooting works best, even with a full choke. As the bird rises, your aim will always lag without a high stock...a"smoke cloud" smoked bird is the goal and you get it with the dedicated trap stock.

I won that gun using a high stocked BT99, with fixed full choke (34" bbl.)


https://www.joeletchenguns.com/rudy-...on-shotgunning
Rudy Etchen died in 2001; I met him once. He used an 870 Trap gun exclusively and shot over 4 million rounds thru his guns. He won everything with an cheap 870 trap; singles handicap and doubles.
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/p...r-classic-trap


K. Ohey always used $15,000k Krieghoffs to do the same thing.
https://www.krieghoff.com/krieghoff-...debbie-ohye-2/

I have shotguns for sporting clays, skeet, dedicated trap, and SxS for Cowboy. Can;t hasve too many guns.

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Old September 06, 2019, 08:05   #43
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Sporting Clays is more fun! I shoot a vintage (1997) Beretta Gold Super Sporting with 29-1/2" bbls. Restocked w/AA wood, bbl.'s reblued & action tighten by Cole's. I want a Krieghoff K-80!
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Old September 06, 2019, 11:18   #44
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Want a decent O/U on the relative cheap? Look at the current Stoeger Condors. They are Benelli/Beretta copies made BY BARETTA, but in Turkey. You get all the design, most of the quality, just not much of the pretty, for a LOT less $$$ than an actual Beretta.

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