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Old March 20, 2017, 13:12   #1
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Most accurate surplus .308 available today? Hirt? MEN?

For the past 3 years I have been shooting a lot of ZQI .308 because it was cheap and locally available. Admittedly it isn't particulary accurate, but fine for blasting.

Now I need some more accuate M80 ball to use in FAL's. What are you guys findind to be most accurate? I'm thinking some Germen MEN or Austrian Hirt might be best.

Option #1:
http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-wi...n-2016-men762a

Option #2:
http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-wi...lus-ammo-1970s

Option #3:
http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-wi...mo-prvi-partiz
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Old March 20, 2017, 15:33   #2
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You are going to have to try it all and see what your rifle likes best.
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Old March 20, 2017, 15:48   #3
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My 15 cent 1970's case of boxer primed Hirt is the most accurate I've ever gotten in about a dozen cases. Next up was 70's Port. I had a bunch of Aussie and some later Port and Hirt that are mediocre. South African might have been third for my lots but I barely remember it. I save the Hirt for my scoped AR.

Never got any MEN.

Sportsman's Guide used to get a lot of small lot size surplus that was pretty cheap and fun to experiment with. I got about 5 cans of Belgian non-magnetic ball ammo and only saw it there for a few months.

I imagine their buyers had some fun getting all that stuff.
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Old March 20, 2017, 15:49   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAFN49 View Post
You are going to have to try it all and see what your rifle likes best.
Yeah, that is the real test and that is what I will do with the top 2-3. I was just curious what you guys are getting for groups with these types of .308.

Maybe one shoots superior for just about everyone...
Maybe one just sucks and I should omit it...
Or consider another I am missing...
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Old March 20, 2017, 15:59   #5
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Start with this

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/621371580
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Old March 20, 2017, 17:25   #6
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Currently it looks like the Lithuanian M80 is the best quality for price.
I can tell you the commercial 2016 MEN and 145 grain Privi isn't up to correct m80 speed.
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Old March 20, 2017, 19:55   #7
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Currently it looks like the Lithuanian M80 is the best quality for price.
I can tell you the commercial 2016 MEN and 145 grain Privi isn't up to correct m80 speed.
Is this the one sold on aim surplus? The GGG?
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Old March 20, 2017, 20:59   #8
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Is this the one sold on aim surplus? The GGG?
Yes. At the same price point the MEN and GGG are a toss up.
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Old March 20, 2017, 21:00   #9
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41.5 IMR 4895 and 168 SMK

If rifle won't shoot that, rifle won't shoot.

All that cheap ball ammo will always be a crap shoot.
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Old March 21, 2017, 05:33   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
41.5 IMR 4895 and 168 SMK

If rifle won't shoot that, rifle won't shoot.

All that cheap ball ammo will always be a crap shoot.
Could not have said it better.
Surplus goes bang and usually comes out the end of the barrel. Unless one takes the time to adjust the bullet run out on surplus , it is minute of man.
More than most rifles, the FAL requires a diet of good ammo to perform well.

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Old March 23, 2017, 11:36   #11
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Blah blah blah......
I can think of many situations where I don't want to police my brass but I still want relatively accurate ammo.
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Old March 23, 2017, 12:09   #12
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^


... and so you would recommend what? I've seen your excellent threat on various surp ammo, but I didn't notice that there are accuracy notes to go along with the load specs. Yes, I know that this will be rifle (and shooter) dependent.


O.P. - I'm with SAFN49. You're going to have to shoot it in your rifle. My FALs seem to like 2750 fps (+/-) as an accuracy nodule. That is for StG barrels of 21" length. I spend the money for good (not great) bullets. It is worth it.

I haven't noticed that MEN is any better than SA for surp. And while I've shot some GGG, I don't think I had enough to make a fair assessment.
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Old March 23, 2017, 12:26   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 762gunr View Post
Blah blah blah......
I can think of many situations where I don't want to police my brass but I still want relatively accurate ammo.
Agreed.

Assuming 21" barrel:

My 168 SMK load (slightly under 2500 fps) total drop is:
  • 2.9" at 100
  • 12.6" at 200
  • 29.7" at 300

Using that same gun, but substituting "M80 ball" (150 grain bullet @ 2700 fps) total drop is:
  • 2.5" at 100
  • 10.5" at 200
  • 25.2" at 300

So, keeping it "reasonably accurate," when you switch from the 168's to the 150's, simply crank ONE MINUTE down-elevation on your sight, and you will be very reasonably accurate.
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Old March 23, 2017, 12:30   #14
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If you can get 2750 with the 150's go an extra quarter-minute down.

We're all holding quarter-minute elevation here - with a FAL - aren't we?
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Old March 25, 2017, 18:41   #15
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Howsabout'n that Australian M4? I think thats its designation. Goofy blister pack with peel-off cellophane top.
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Old March 25, 2017, 19:18   #16
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Howsabout'n that Australian M4? I think thats its designation. Goofy blister pack with peel-off cellophane top.
F4? Very nice stuff.
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Old March 25, 2017, 19:34   #17
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Howsabout'n that Australian M4? I think thats its designation. Goofy blister pack with peel-off cellophane top.
The Aussie 1991 F4 Boxer primed in those paks shoots MOA in my Britt L42A1
Sniper rifle. I am MORE than happy with that ammo!
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Old March 26, 2017, 15:32   #18
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I found most of the berdan primed 7.62 shot well in my Fals and M1A. The worst was any US made ball ammo.
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Old March 26, 2017, 17:26   #19
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I found most of the berdan primed 7.62 shot well in my Fals and M1A. The worst was any US made ball ammo.
Totally agree. The Chinese Norinco copper washed was quite accurate in my FALS next would be German DAG. Bottom of the barrel M80.
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Old March 27, 2017, 22:22   #20
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ZQI only shoots really well in my PARA FAL, 1-3 MOA, next M1A NM. 18" PTR it's terrible even my tack driver MSG90 clone it's all over the map (surplus Malaysian shoots 1 ragged hole).

1990's MEN in my M1A National Match at 100 yards:


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Old March 31, 2017, 06:53   #21
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PPU in the white boxes shoots pretty well out of my FALs.. the blue box stuff is the same but in a nicer looking package and a few cents more per round.
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Old April 05, 2017, 03:56   #22
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Here's what Ive been stockpiling. It is accurate, consistent, and the bullet jacket is frangible.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-wi...lus-ammo-am203
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Old April 05, 2017, 04:00   #23
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Totally agree. The Chinese Norinco copper washed was quite accurate in my FALS next would be German DAG. Bottom of the barrel M80.
Almost all Chinese Copper Washed is corrosive. It doesn't get fed to my semis.
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Old April 05, 2017, 05:10   #24
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Almost all Chinese Copper Washed is corrosive. It doesn't get fed to my semis.
Guess my rifles don't mind baths. We ran way over 10k of the stuff when it was available for $75. per 1k case. Both Norinco and China Sport. Once you got past the smell of the powder smoke they were fine.

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Old April 19, 2017, 17:35   #25
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Accurate and inexpensive. It is MEN and DAG with the headstamp obliterated for political purposes, but it shoots GREAT!

http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-wi...lus-ammo-am203
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