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Old July 16, 2019, 16:35   #1
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AR Pistol? Tempted by PSA Pricing

I've recently become curious about AR pistols or short barrel rifles. I've never shot one nor do i particularly have a use for one.

Anyone care to explain why I should scratch this itch? Or am I better to just ignore this particular temptation?
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Old July 16, 2019, 16:38   #2
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I have a 9mm AR pistol, and a SBR daniel defense short AR.

The pistols are actually pretty fun to shoot but I would suggest not dealing with PSA.
Ive built so many AR's over the years and helped a few friends last year who did the PSA kits and they have had nothing but issues.
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Old July 16, 2019, 16:44   #3
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A few years ago I would have laughed at the idea of an AR pistol (actually probably did laugh at them) and would have sworn I would never, ever have one.

With the obvious exception of IL, all the Southern and mid-west states I would reasonably drive to rather than fly to, all honor my CCW for a handgun.

A couple years ago however, I learned that a few states can charge you as being a poacher just for keeping a loaded rifle in your truck

That is a long story to say that IMHO they are most generally worthless, but can have a specific purpose, and fill a particular need.

Yes, I now have an AR "pistol" behind the truck seat rather than a full sized AR
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Old July 16, 2019, 16:58   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redoubt View Post
I have a 9mm AR pistol, and a SBR daniel defense short AR.

The pistols are actually pretty fun to shoot but I would suggest not dealing with PSA.
Ive built so many AR's over the years and helped a few friends last year who did the PSA kits and they have had nothing but issues.
What kind of problems did they have? Was thinking of trying one of their kits.
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Old July 16, 2019, 17:19   #5
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Originally Posted by Redoubt View Post
The pistols are actually pretty fun to shoot but I would suggest not dealing with PSA.
Ive built so many AR's over the years and helped a few friends last year who did the PSA kits and they have had nothing but issues.
That's pretty interesting, especially since I have purchased four of their 10.5 in uppers in the past six months and all are great. One is on a PSA lower and the other three are on Anderson lowers...

I'd like to hear about your (and your friends) claimed problems too...

Forrest
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Old July 16, 2019, 17:23   #6
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Just don't apply a forward grip on one, per the new BATF rules. You can research this online. Factors for AOW vs pistol vs SBR. PSA is easy to deal with regarding their products. If you get a product that has a flaw, like a barrel not being center bored correctly or a canted front sight base, they will replace it. That's been my experience. Personally I think the AR pistol has very limited application, but to each their own.
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Old July 16, 2019, 17:40   #7
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Just don't apply a forward grip on one, per the new BATF rules. You can research this online. Factors for AOW vs pistol vs SBR. PSA is easy to deal with regarding their products. If you get a product that has a flaw, like a barrel not being center bored correctly or a canted front sight base, they will replace it. That's been my experience. Personally I think the AR pistol has very limited application, but to each their own.
If the overall length is less than 26", vertical foregrips are a no-go.

I love my PSA 5.56 10.5" pistol. It rides with me to and from work every day. Reliable, and shoots very nicely.
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Old July 16, 2019, 17:53   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
That's pretty interesting, especially since I have purchased four of their 10.5 in uppers in the past six months and all are great. One is on a PSA lower and the other three are on Anderson lowers...

I'd like to hear about your (and your friends) claimed problems too...

Forrest

I can tell you I saw first hand that 1 out of 5 kits the LPK was so out of spec they woudnt fit in Anderson or spikes lowers.
Some had burrs so profound they would cut your hand if you handled them.

Im have no stock in this, Im only telling you what I saw first hand building a whole mess of these rifles. I remember having a coffee can of hammers that weren't reamed out so a pin would go in and stop.

Im not saying your rifle is junk or anything like that, Im only telling you that Ive seen first hand issues with some of their stuff.
But in the end, the cheapest pistol kits on the planet aren't priced that way because PSA is super nice guys and they just like selling for cheap, they are priced that low for a reason.
Hell my buddy who purchased them still has a pistol and loves his, beats the snot out of it too runs like a top, but it is what it is.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old July 16, 2019, 17:57   #9
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So you built 10.5 inch barreled uppers onto Anderson rifle lowers ?

Is that correct ?






Quote:
Originally Posted by Redoubt View Post
I was a co owner of a small gun store until last year and the other owner decided to hit the Idaho gunshow circuit and asked if I wanted to help.

He purchased PSA 10.5 pistol and Freedom 16inch upper kits in masse, and a about 50 Anderson lowers.
We put them together over a few weeks and worked the gun shows selling them like crazy.
He has been called from a considerable percentage of his buyers with issues of non properly staked carrier and a cracked hammer or two. There was also someone who complained about a weapon firing out of battery due to the bolt not moving freely.
I can tell you I saw first hand that 1 out of 5 kits the LPK was so out of spec they woudnt fit in Anderson or spikes lowers.
Some had burrs so profound they would cut your hand if you handled them.

Im have no stock in this, Im only telling you what I saw first hand building a whole mess of these rifles. I remember having a coffee can of hammers that weren't reamed out so a pin would go in and stop.

Im not saying your rifle is junk or anything like that, Im only telling you that Ive seen first hand issues with some of their stuff.
But in the end, the cheapest pistol kits on the planet aren't priced that way because PSA is super nice guys and they just like selling for cheap, they are priced that low for a reason.
Hell my buddy who purchased them still has a pistol and loves his, beats the snot out of it too runs like a top, but it is what it is.
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Old July 16, 2019, 18:01   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFADLR View Post
So you built 10.5 inch barreled uppers onto Anderson rifle lowers ?

Is that correct ?

On to Anderson lowers that he purchased and were written as firearms, not rifles so he could make pistols.
But Ive made PSA stuff on Spikes as well, and some Delton uppers as well.
I really like the Delton stuff actually.

Dont get me wrong, AR pistols are a blast to shoot, I love mine.
I have a billet PSA 9mm lower that is awesome as well.
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Old July 16, 2019, 19:55   #11
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I have a few Aero Precision lowers and was considering their offerings.

So rather than PSA quality arguments, I'd like to focus on the merits of a short barrel rifle in .223

What barrel preference? 10.5" 11.5" 12.5"?

In what applications, if any do they shine?

How do they run suppressed?
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Old July 16, 2019, 19:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFADLR View Post
So you built 10.5 inch barreled uppers onto Anderson rifle lowers ?

Is that correct ?
No, I built them on Anderson lowers that were backgrounded as pistols...

Not that I even had to do that, but whatever...

But thanks for playing...

Forrest
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Old July 16, 2019, 20:08   #13
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With as good as braces are now I would just go pistol with a brace ..If you really like it then go for the tax stamp ...

10.5 is as short as I would go for 556

Me I like the idea of a PCC AR pistol maybe a 45 ....
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Old July 16, 2019, 20:12   #14
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Originally Posted by Redoubt View Post
I can tell you I saw first hand that 1 out of 5 kits the LPK was so out of spec they woudnt fit in Anderson or spikes lowers.
Some had burrs so profound they would cut your hand if you handled them.

Im have no stock in this, Im only telling you what I saw first hand building a whole mess of these rifles. I remember having a coffee can of hammers that weren't reamed out so a pin would go in and stop.

Im not saying your rifle is junk or anything like that, Im only telling you that Ive seen first hand issues with some of their stuff.
But in the end, the cheapest pistol kits on the planet aren't priced that way because PSA is super nice guys and they just like selling for cheap, they are priced that low for a reason.
Hell my buddy who purchased them still has a pistol and loves his, beats the snot out of it too runs like a top, but it is what it is.
I'm certainly not saying that I don't believe you. My use of 'claimed' was probably a poor choice...

I tend to use whatever LPKs that I can find for a relatively cheap price. While I have used PSA ones (and as a matter of fact, one of the pistols mentioned has a PSA LPK with their NiB enhanced trigger), I'm not sure what I used on the others. Personally, I have had no problems with the PSA LPKs that I have received.

Unless I'm planning on using an AR for more precision work, I tend to leave the .mil type FCG. If it's particularly bad, I might throw in a RRA 2-stage match trigger (because I have a bunch of them).

Forrest
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Old July 16, 2019, 20:50   #15
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My wife has a PSA 10.5". I also bought my dad one of their Shockwave 10.5" kits. (I wouldn't go any shorter barrel length for 5.56)

Both were built using Anderson Lowers I found on sale for $40 bucks.

Zero issues.

From what I understand PSA had a lot of earlier issues, but they seem to have sorted it out. The prices are insanely good, I usually check their website daily for ammo deals as well.

Now I'm watching for a nice optic for the Wife's AR Pistol.
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Old July 16, 2019, 21:05   #16
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My wife has a PSA 10.5". I also bought my dad one of their Shockwave 10.5" kits. (I wouldn't go any shorter barrel length for 5.56)

Both were built using Anderson Lowers I found on sale for $40 bucks.

Zero issues.

From what I understand PSA had a lot of earlier issues, but they seem to have sorted it out. The prices are insanely good, I usually check their website daily for ammo deals as well.

Now I'm watching for a nice optic for the Wife's AR Pistol.
I have SIG Romeo5 ones (purchased from PSA) on my AR 10.5in pistols, and I'm quite happy with them for this use...

For what it's worth...

Forrest
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Old July 16, 2019, 21:11   #17
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Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
I have SIG Romeo5 ones (purchased from PSA) on my AR 10.5in pistols, and I'm quite happy with them for this use...

For what it's worth...
By the way, I should probably mention that the pistols I have all have an M-Lok fore-end, a carbine length gas system and no front sight tower.

Having a front sight tower might influence your choice of optics.

Just sayin'...

Forrest
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Old July 16, 2019, 21:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
I have SIG Romeo5 ones (purchased from PSA) on my AR 10.5in pistols, and I'm quite happy with them for this use...

For what it's worth...

Forrest

That Sig Romeo 5 from PSA is one of the best deals Ive found all year!
Ive got one on my PSA 9mm billet lower/Foxtrot Mike upper.


As for pistols, I can't believe how many people up here LOVE the 300blk with a 7.5 inch barrel..

For me I think 10.5 is the shortest I would go.
The Shockwave brace is pretty much a perfect product imo. But I wanted to add a MOE CTR and a forward grip to my Daniel defense Mk18 11.5 pistol so I just did a SBR.
With an EOTECH and a Gisele trigger it runs like a top. Im amazed at the quality of Daniel Defense. Waiting on a Can for it now.
Pic of it in pistol form.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old July 16, 2019, 21:25   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
I'm certainly not saying that I don't believe you. My use of 'claimed' was probably a poor choice...

I tend to use whatever LPKs that I can find for a relatively cheap price. While I have used PSA ones (and as a matter of fact, one of the pistols mentioned has a PSA LPK with their NiB enhanced trigger), I'm not sure what I used on the others. Personally, I have had no problems with the PSA LPKs that I have received.

Unless I'm planning on using an AR for more precision work, I tend to leave the .mil type FCG. If it's particularly bad, I might throw in a RRA 2-stage match trigger (because I have a bunch of them).

Forrest
No offense take at all Forrest. And of course none sent your way either.
I personally like PSA stuff. Im not putting them down.
The percentage of problem weapons seemed to be rather small.
I haven't had any issue with my 9mm pistol...
Im gonna have to SBR that too though now.
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Old July 17, 2019, 01:42   #20
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AR pistols are light and compact, easy to transport in various inconspicuous bags, and are a blast to shoot.
I have a few PSA pistol upper kits and have had zero issues with any of them. All built on PSA lowers with Anderson LPK’s except for the 9mm, it is a complete PSA lower. All .223/5.56 have PSA premium BCG.
The PA9 10.5” has mlok and Sig CP1 3x prism and SBA3.
The 10.5” with key mod has PA 2.5 prism and SBA3.
The 10.5” with carbine handguards has A3 carry handle and SBA3.
The 8.5” with mlok has TRS25 and SB.
I’ve been considering building a 12.5”, but will probably just buy a new 12.5” bbl and mlok then pull the 8.5” bbl.
The price of AR parts is insane right now and there is no reason not to stock up and or build!
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Old July 17, 2019, 06:56   #21
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Quote:
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I have SIG Romeo5 ones (purchased from PSA) on my AR 10.5in pistols, and I'm quite happy with them for this use...

For what it's worth...

Forrest
Thanks to both of you guys for mentioning that, I'd been eyeballing it for some time. Now I'll pull the trigger on one.
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Old July 17, 2019, 07:24   #22
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I thought I would never own an AR pistol till realized while my state doesn't prohibit it, most of the state's I travel in is illegal to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle. So used to having a truck rifle can't hardly conceive not having one all the time. Went on an AR pistol building spree trying three cartridges in DI and piston drive for testing. Now wife and I both have a 10.5" Noveske barreled 6.8 spc II with Superlative Arms piston drive kit. Was never a piston drive person till started building pistols.

Short narrels with short gas systems and when screw a can on if built as DI will spit about as much powder resedue in my face as out the muzzle. Now have an 8.5" piston drive pistol in 6.8 which is too short and a pair of 10.5" piston drive 5.56 pistols. Used a myriad of buffers and braces but prefer the Battle Arms Development 4" OAL short buffer with a Tailhook brace. Have slammed scopes on all of mine and found using quality barrels I can get 1.5 MOA out of a pistol off the bench. Can bust steel consistently out to 200 yards and beyond with a red dot sight and not worry about getting in a situation where need a rifle and don't have or arrested when cross a few miles into a surrounding state for work or visiting relatives.
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Old July 17, 2019, 10:09   #23
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I’ll play. I built a couple just for grins. Both are on Andersen “Pistol” lowers. Yes, they actually say “Pistol” right on the lower. I was not particularly worried about it, but the lowers were the same price and easy to get so why not? One is a 7” PSA assembled upper and the other a parts scrounge 10.5”. Both shoot well, but the 10.5” would certainly be my pick.

PSA stuff can be hit and miss, more hit than miss by my accounts though. I did have quite a bit of trouble with a 9mm upper. Must have chambered it with a dull and worn reamer. Once I cleaned it up with a new reamer and throater it runs perfect and is a blast. I have had other issues with their stuff but can’t recall them right now.
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Old July 17, 2019, 10:46   #24
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I like AR pistols - they are handy and have all the range and power needed for most concievable self-defense scenarios.

PSA may have had teething issues at some time but I haven't had any issues with the PSA uppers and lowers I've bought. If you are assembling rifles from parts you have to be able to handle some minor debugging.

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Old July 17, 2019, 11:35   #25
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the only thing i don't like about PSA is they charge me sales tax
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Old July 17, 2019, 11:40   #26
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I tend to use whatever LPKs that I can find for a relatively cheap price. While I have used PSA ones (and as a matter of fact, one of the pistols mentioned has a PSA LPK with their NiB enhanced trigger), I'm not sure what I used on the others. Personally, I have had no problems with the PSA LPKs that I have received.

Unless I'm planning on using an AR for more precision work, I tend to leave the .mil type FCG. If it's particularly bad, I might throw in a RRA 2-stage match trigger (because I have a bunch of them).

Forrest
I think PSA's NiB trigger components are brilliant. The two that I have (one in the 10.5 pistol, the other in a 14.5) have a better pull than the Larue MBT in another AR (which is no sleight against the MBT). PSA knocked it out of the park with those HTS.
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Old July 17, 2019, 11:52   #27
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I have a PSA marauder upper (7.5” 5.56 with a big flash can). The noise is something like a .454, but the funnel shaped muzzle device does well to direct the flash and blast downrange. They offer this upper in .300 now too, which would be ballistically better out of 7.5”.......BUT... even out of 7.5”, 5.56 performs as if it were 200-250 yards downrange from a 16” gun. More than enough for the type of role a PDW would be used in. Accurate as well, no worse than any other bargain priced AR. 100% reliable so far. 1500-2000 or so rounds fired without a single malfunction. The only complaint I have with it, is that it gets HOT. Hotter than any other AR I’ve ever shot. It might be because of the SL handguard I put on it, or because I’m gripping much closer to the chamber than I do on a rifle.....but it gets unbearably hot after just a couple mags. Gloves are a must if I plan on doing any prolonged shooting or mag dumps.


I never liked AR pistols. I thought they were pointless. But after throwing this together I’ve realized I really like the concept. So much so, this thing has found its way into a carry role in the back of my Jeep anytime I go into northern Michigan or camping.

The brace is a Maxim. PSA is now selling the generic SB brace for dirt cheap compared to what the Maxim goes for. Basically the same component, except the Maxim uses a proprietary buffer so the tube can be an inch or so shorter. Machining quality is a bit better on the Maxim too.




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Old July 17, 2019, 12:15   #28
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Thanks to both of you guys for mentioning that, I'd been eyeballing it for some time. Now I'll pull the trigger on one.
You might also think about the Holosun HS403GL (which is essentially the 'same' as the SIG Sauer Romeo 5), since the SIG sight is made for them by Holosun. I picked one of them up from PSA just before the SIG Romeo 5s were listed, then picked up the SIG ones. Both are comparable, and both have the shake-awake feature. They are the same size too...

I have the Holosun on a KelTec RDB20, and am quite happy with it too.

Forrest
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Old July 17, 2019, 18:48   #29
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PSA are good stuff. Not top shelf, but good enough and great value. Wring it out to prove reliability and you'll be fine.

Their FCG used to be very acceptable (like several years ago). Stuff within past 5 yr are pretty gritty. Thats the standard phosphate FCG. Never tried their NiB FCG.
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Old July 17, 2019, 19:43   #30
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That Sig Romeo 5 from PSA is one of the best deals Ive found all year!
Ive got one on my PSA 9mm billet lower/Foxtrot Mike upper.


As for pistols, I can't believe how many people up here LOVE the 300blk with a 7.5 inch barrel..

For me I think 10.5 is the shortest I would go.
The Shockwave brace is pretty much a perfect product imo. But I wanted to add a MOE CTR and a forward grip to my Daniel defense Mk18 11.5 pistol so I just did a SBR.
With an EOTECH and a Gisele trigger it runs like a top. Im amazed at the quality of Daniel Defense. Waiting on a Can for it now.
Pic of it in pistol form.
[IMG][/IMG]
Looks like someone hangs out at the Lewis Clark Wildlife Club. 😉
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Old July 17, 2019, 22:18   #31
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I've recently become curious about AR pistols or short barrel rifles. I've never shot one nor do i particularly have a use for one.

Anyone care to explain why I should scratch this itch? Or am I better to just ignore this particular temptation?
When has "having a use for one" ever been a prerequisite? Why should you scratch this itch, you ask?

AR's right now, from PSA anyway (and you can get them cheaper, a little, if you're willing to do chicom stuff) are selling for pretty much what they were in the mid/late 1980's. Maybe 1990, but whatever. From the time when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour and it would have cost you two and a half weeks worth of pay to get one. These ARE the good old days of ARdom. PSA's offerings are the $89 Imbel kits of today. TAPCO $1 aluminum metric mags. Century $.05 cent a round delivered Indian x51 with a free CETME bayonet. Burns Brothers $129 M39's. $59 Albanian SKS's from AIM. $150 Ballestar Rigaud's from whoever the hell sold them. Get what I'm saying here?

Buy one. Buy one today. Don't wait, don't cry later because you didn't and now you can't. If you have a good FFL that does multiple transfers for one fee, buy a few lowers at once when they're $30 a pop and split the cost of the transfer. Other places usually have better deals on the receivers when you factor in shipping. Buy a $259 or $269 kit when PSA runs their deals, and they almost always have a sub $300 pistol kit on their daily deal. Put it together, no special tools required as long as you have some sort of $3 punch and the back side of a drill bit to help hold a detent or two in place. Order a $22 red dot from Amazon. Put a couple drops of oil on the bolt and along the charging handle slot and go turn some money into noise at the local range.

If you hate it, you can sell it and be out almost nothing for your effort. If you like it, and I bet you will, you can get a better dot/optic after you read some reviews/think about what you're willing to spend on something you don't really have a use for. My guess, actually my hope, is the only real use you'll ever have for it is to put high speed holes in paper or pop cans or balloons or film canisters filled with flour or punkins/watermelons, or ping steel plates. But that's use enough for me, even if one usually does ride around with me just in case.
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Old July 17, 2019, 22:47   #32
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Looks like someone hangs out at the Lewis Clark Wildlife Club. 😉
Nope, But Ive heard of it! Im so far north my back basically touches the Canada border. 30 minutes from Montana, 20 min to my lil town, and 45 on the highway to get to the nearest town.
Im literally the last place in Northern Idaho!
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Old July 17, 2019, 23:23   #33
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10.5 in both 9mm and 223

Wanted something small and light for the wife,,,the little Sig Romero sight on both works well.

She kept the 9mm,,Glock mag lower ,33 round mags,,,hits what she aims at.

The 223 rides in tha jeep at all times.

All PSA parts, SW lowers, all work,,accurate enough and reliable.

Great prices.
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Old July 18, 2019, 07:13   #34
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You might also think about the Holosun HS403GL (which is essentially the 'same' as the SIG Sauer Romeo 5), since the SIG sight is made for them by Holosun. I picked one of them up from PSA just before the SIG Romeo 5s were listed, then picked up the SIG ones. Both are comparable, and both have the shake-awake feature. They are the same size too...

I have the Holosun on a KelTec RDB20, and am quite happy with it too.

Forrest
Thank you, I'll keep an eye out for that. I wasn't even aware of the shake-awake feature but I know my wife will love that. Heck, I'LL love that. I need to order two of these and build myself another AR pistol.
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Old July 18, 2019, 07:15   #35
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When has "having a use for one" ever been a prerequisite? Why should you scratch this itch, you ask?

AR's right now, from PSA anyway (and you can get them cheaper, a little, if you're willing to do chicom stuff) are selling for pretty much what they were in the mid/late 1980's. Maybe 1990, but whatever. From the time when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour and it would have cost you two and a half weeks worth of pay to get one. These ARE the good old days of ARdom. PSA's offerings are the $89 Imbel kits of today. TAPCO $1 aluminum metric mags. Century $.05 cent a round delivered Indian x51 with a free CETME bayonet. Burns Brothers $129 M39's. $59 Albanian SKS's from AIM. $150 Ballestar Rigaud's from whoever the hell sold them. Get what I'm saying here?

Buy one. Buy one today.
FANTASTIC Post. Well stated, sir. (I posted it on my blog.)

Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

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Old July 19, 2019, 15:39   #36
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I have a PSA marauder upper (7.5” 5.56 with a big flash can). The noise is something like a .454, but the funnel shaped muzzle device does well to direct the flash and blast downrange.
if don't own a suppressor or using as a truck gun and don't want to travel with a suppressor then a flash can is on the list of necessary items though I normally add suppressor adapters do have flash cans on the pistols I would carry if crossing state lines and a permit to travel with a suppressor was required. Two of my favorite AR rifles have 13.7" Noveske barrels with Noveske Flaming Pigs pinned to them.

The slightly longer premium barrel and length of the Flaming Pig with a crush washer before pinning adds up to 16.1" from bolt face to front edge of muzzle device. It's still compact but shortest rifle I can build with minimal noise and muzzle blast from operators position. The Flaming Pig flash can does a stunning job of directing sound downrange and not being absolutely horrible if only have time to grab your weapon and not mess around with putting on muffs or finding your ear plugs. I keep both handy but doesn't mean will have time to use them if actually need my truck gun for defensive use.
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Old July 19, 2019, 16:15   #37
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A word of warning to anyone who is thinking about installing a suppressor on a gas-impingement AR of any barrel length.

It makes a TREMENDOUS mess of your trigger group.

Within 10 shots with a suppressor on a gas-impingement AR, your trigger group will be as dirty as if you had fired 2000 rounds without a suppressor. Yes, it is THAT BAD. Oh, and the filth that doesn't lodge in your trigger group, will be expelled into your face in the form of an eye-burning and un-breathable gas cloud on each opening of the bolt.

I have a whole bag of reasons why I am not personally interested in a "pistol" AR. But, that filth in the trigger mechanism from a suppressor is all I need to know about not wanting (another) suppressed gas-impingement AR.
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Old July 19, 2019, 16:45   #38
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I have a whole bag of reasons why I am not personally interested in a "pistol" AR. But, that filth in the trigger mechanism from a suppressor is all I need to know about not wanting (another) suppressed gas-impingement AR.
Try using combloc x39 ammo. It gets nasty suppressed. Though I have never had a jam even with probably 500 rounds before cleaning.
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Old July 19, 2019, 16:55   #39
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I admit I'm a trigger snob.

I like a good trigger on an AR.

A good trigger feels like a shit trigger after it gets loaded up with all that back-puke.
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Old July 20, 2019, 17:16   #40
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And why I spent many years saying piston drive AR's were just over complicating a simple and reliable design but now have a passel of piston drives. Have built a few DI pistols while in my testing and development for the best truck gun that fell under the rules to be classified as a pistol. All either got swapped to Superlative Arms piston kits where after just a few rounds can see so much cap gummed up on barrel in front of gas block where it vents the excess gas forward vs blown back in my face or into innards of receiver. The couple of DI pistol length gas builds left are put away till find a deal on more piston kits as saving the pair of piston kits have in parts locker put back for upcoming builds.

If running a suppressor prefer to use one of my single stamp SBRs generally using a 10.5" barrel with carbine length Superlative Arms piston kit and pinned suppressor so do not have to SBR the lower. Have a pair of 5.56 that run like sewing machines even in binary mode and do not blow excessive gas to the rear. It would entail removing a pinned suppressor and handguard off to take pictures of the bleed off gas block to show difference in DI vs piston drive .

In the process of building two more Form 1 cans for 8.5" 458 SOCOM barrels in which one will get a piston kit and other DI on pistol lowers initially. These are for testing a pair of 10" long 0.460" cans and once figure out if they will run clean enough for 300 to 500 rounds with the DI block will retrofit both to DI and if not then get piston kits, can pinned to barrel and put on "rifle" lowers. Trying to see if another couple inches of can length and different baffle design will lower the reading on my DB meters at the rifle and 25 yards down range. Have an 8" Form 1 can that is super quiet but going to use the extra 2" for another chamber plus a replaceable rubber wipe at forward end of the baffle stack.

Both these articles show the DI version of the Superlative Arms gas bleed off adjustable gas block. The piston drive version spits almost double the cap out the front but way mine are set up its hard to get a good photograph without removing parts and thus far been too lazy to burn a few hundred rounds then try to take my pinned suppressed piston drives apart just for a few pictures. Have discovered if able to build your pistol with carbine length gas blow back is much less than with pistol length gas.

Also while BATFE calls 12.5" barrels pistols some individual states do not. Had to help a guy who purchased a 12.5" barreled upper to discover the Arkansas considers any 12.5" or longer barrel a rifle even if BATFE calls it a pistol. There are a few other states that do so as well and why my travel pistols are all mostly 10.5" barrels or shorter. Have a 7.5" 5.56 and a 8.5" 6.8 but have not ever been 100% happy with either. Have kept them as built just for novelties or very specific uses as they will both fit under a sport coat with ten round magazine then a few full size magazines on belt. Use a strap to hang over shoulder with velcro tab that p u lls loose under a little pressure then can swing them right up into firing position if needed. An AR 15 pistol worn under a jacket like a big wheel gun in a shoulder rig is a fun novelty and a comfort in some situations.

Research the use of cans with AR pistols well before following that path. Have seen more than a few that would start having reliability issues in less than couple hundred rounds if not set up correctly. Only so much crap can spew back into bolt and fire control system before they exhibit issues. That said if willing to work on it can come up with a solution which piston drives that spew gas forward was my answer. Sure others have done it differently with success.

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/super...-block-review/

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/bu...g-hunting-gun/
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Old July 21, 2019, 23:35   #41
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went the easy way out.
Wanted a SBR but didn't want the paper work.
Got a CMMG Banshee 200 9mm AR type Pistol, 10.5" barrel.
Put a red dot on it, and went to the range . . . . . . WHAT A HOOT to Shoot !
With a full 32rd mag, its like shooting a BB gun at the carnival !
But it does temp one to go thru quite a bit of ammo playing
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Old August 12, 2019, 22:43   #42
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I have an ar9 pistol and an ar57 pistol, both are excellant shooters.
Am regretting not getting one (ok several) of psa's 259.00 free shipped pistol kits a couple months ago.
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Old August 13, 2019, 09:52   #43
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This is a 5.56 with 11.5" barrel and carbine length gas. Purchased a suppressor LGS was willing to part with at a bargain and pinned to barrel. It's DI with adjustable gas dialed in for the can and generally carry M855A1, M855 green tip or mix of the two in it. Adjusting gas correctly and it's comfortable, fun and does not dump gas in my face. Have run over a 1,000 rounds through it more than once between cleanings.



Pinning the can gives one the ability to only have to buy a single stamp as barrel length comes up past 16" OAL. Next is a 10.5" barreled 5.56 with Superlative Arms piston drive upper. This was part of my pistol project experiments to find best build for using my CCW to carry a loaded AR across most state lines I travel in loaded to the max.



8.5" Bison fast twist 6.8 to stabilize heavy subsonic or full power ammo with Battle Arms Development short buffer and heavily trimmed brace. Without a suppressor this is tiny. Have lost access to over 2,000 photos had hosted on tinypic so do not have any of this since adding a red dot or with suppressor mounted. Looked back and majority of pictures posted over past few years are gone. Going to have to figure out how to fix or a lot of "how to" threads will never make sense.



After building pistols in 300 BO, 5.56, 6.8 and 458 SOCOM my favorite builds are 10.5" Noveske barrel builds with Superlative Arms piston kits. Can clear rooms or engage zombie size targets easily out to 200 yards without having to slow down to dope drop and wind. Past 200 yards better have lots of practice or range finding reticle in a 1-4x scope to compensate closely enough for the short barrel 6.8's drop at 250 to 400 yards but it will still hit hard out to 400 (6.8 makes same energy at 200 yards as 5.56 does at muzzle) thus has become what I call the perfect truck gun that falls in legal pistol definition. Mine has a binary trigger and wife's uses a Hiperfire 24E dual hammer spring fire control system. We have a pair built on Noveske barrels and a spare built on a 10.5" ARP barrel that shoots well but due to thinner profile is a tad light when running fast and want to keep muzzle climb down plus less point of aim shift with the heavier Noveske tubes. If could afford it all my poodle shooters would have only White Oak, Noveske and Compas Lake barrels on them.
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Old August 13, 2019, 12:32   #44
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I purchased a 10.5" 5.56/223 upper a few years ago. I use in on an SBR lower. Silly thing feels a little rough, but it has been 100% reliable. Maybe a few 100 rounds minimum through it so far?
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Old Yesterday, 20:19   #45
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Bought a PSA lower and upper for a AR pistol project and the rear take down pin hole was a bit off on the upper.
Had to take a file to clean up the ratty edges.
The trigger pin holes were too small and I had to take a round file to them.
It will be the last PSA product I will by.
I really wanted one of the new PSA AK 9mm pistols but now I'll pass.
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Old Yesterday, 21:22   #46
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the only thing i don't like about PSA is they charge me sales tax
Get you a P.O Box in OR
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Old Today, 10:16   #47
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I have two PSA pistols.. a PSA assm. upper, 10.5" FN barrel 5.56 and a PSA assm. upper 8.5" FN barreled in 300BK.

Overall, the ballistics in a 11.5 or 12.5" are better. Go figure ...
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Su...E-/16-714088/?

FWIW, my PSA pistols have been great. No issues at all.

Photos, because well all enjoy them..

10.5" 5.56


8.5" 300BK
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Old Today, 10:40   #48
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Pistol made SBR!
I took the advice of another FF member and did the online form 1. Took a month.

Daniel defense mk18 with Spikes lower.
[IMG][/IMG]
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