Best way to distress DSA receiver to match PNG kit wear?

[Danus ex]

I'm looking for ideas on how to match the finish on my Papua New Guinea kit. It's almost like I need a grinding wheel made out of old BDUs with a cosmoline smeared on it! What do you think?

[tywest]

Well the wear is from friction causing smoothing, youd almost need to identify the high wear points from pictures and kinda of abrasively buff those areas along with the same but less on the rest of reciever. If you had a big tumbler you could throw it in with some media and run it, like polishing cartridge casings.

[Thomas]

I had an old friend, gunny master sarg and gunsmith.
Worked on a lot of high end antiques.
He would always say,"pee on it and throw it in the grass in the backyard for a couple of weeks."

[tywest]

thats cute

[andresere]

Check Gunplumber's post on Rhodies (IIRC). He shows how to wear a receiver. Used gloves and gravel, I think it was.

[capt ron]

Send it to me. I have a 15 year old grandson that can take a new rifle and make it look distress in one trip to the gun range. I will send it back to you. You pay shipping both ways.

Ron

[andresere]

Originally Posted by capt ron

Send it to me. I have a 15 year old grandson that can take a new rifle and make it look distress in one trip to the gun range. I will send it back to you. You pay shipping both ways.

Ron

[W.E.G.]

Nanook rubs it.

[Peconga]

Originally Posted by W.E.G.

Nanook rubs it.

... while wearing caribou hide gloves soaked with whale fat, coated with finely powdered walrus bone.

Seriously though, I've seen several threads on this in the past, all with various techniques for accelerating the wear patterns that would be accumulated over years of handling and normal use. Some use 0000 steel wool, others use wet-dry sandpaper with oil, buffing compound, etc. Regardless, the trick is to gradually wear down the exposed edges and surfaces in order to get a nice contrast with the crevices and recessed areas which would be more protected. Although it can be done, it is a bit harder to achieve realistic wear patterns with chemicals (since they don't distinguish between high- and low- surfaces) or with wire wheels and buffers, since they are unidirectional.

Nanook speaks truth. Use hands.

[kmurphy]

Use it a bunch. And not gently.

[Tibodoe]

Best way to distress DSA receiver?

Pass a SCAR by it

Sorry I had to.

[Blackmore]

Put it in your lap and rub it with denim from an old pair of dungarees while watching TV. Ignore looks and comments from spouse.

[gunplumber]

the sand/gravel was for the baby-poop. Would take forever to cut through it with a finer abrasive.




No baby poop this time.

Parkerize
assembled in shooting configuration.
card with 220-320
brush on Clorox bleach
let sit 20-30 minutes.
card off
repeat with 320-400
oil.

(optional) bake oil on, then card off and repeat cycle.

[gunplumber]

painted finishes are tougher because you can't fade them, they are either there or gone. What I hadn't done on this one is the final rusting I now do to dull the high spots. Can use bleach or acid.

[andresere]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

Parkerize
assembled in shooting configuration.
card with 220-320
brush on Clorox bleach
let sit 20-30 minutes.
card off
repeat with 320-400
oil.

(optional) bake oil on, then card off and repeat cycle.

Don't track with "card"? Nice looking work, by the way.

[gunplumber]

Card. term from rust bluing. This process is similar to rust bluing, except we keep the red iron oxide and don't convert to black. Traditional rust bluing uses a heated salt water vapor chamber. bleach works much faster for distressing than salt water.

"to card" to break down formed rust with a fine abrasive. with something very fine. steel wool, scotchbrite, sandpaper even cardboard. Be interesting to see the history of the word in this use.

[andresere]

Got it, thanks.

[Pluribus]

Get rope. Tie one end of rope to rifel. Tie other end of rope to the truck bumper. Drive back and forth across the pasture until desired effect is reached. Wizz on it for good measure. Check barrel for straightness. If still straight, splatt it with fresh cow patty and let sit over night. In morning, hose it down with the garden hose. Let sun dry. Scrub resultant rust of with handfuls prairie grass.

Done.

[W.E.G.]

Preach it!

[EPC WN]

Sounds like a hate crime against the rifle...

[YAKDriver]

Place next to sear cut factory example. It will immediately be distressed with feelings of inferiority.

[SteelonSteel]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

Card. term from rust bluing. This process is similar to rust bluing, except we keep the red iron oxide and don't convert to black. Traditional rust bluing uses a heated salt water vapor chamber. bleach works much faster for distressing than salt water.

"to card" to break down formed rust with a fine abrasive. with something very fine. steel wool, scotchbrite, sandpaper even cardboard. Be interesting to see the history of the word in this use.

I'm wondering if it was borrowed from wood workers who use metal cards as scrapers, normally in a perpendicular fashion, scraping the edge along the wood surface not shaving like a razor blade.

Only online definition I see is for making spun threads. It did mention;

process by which fibers are opened, cleaned, and straightened in preparation for spinning. The fingers were first used, then a tool of wood or bone shaped like a hand, then two flat pieces of wood (cards) covered with skin set with thorns or teeth. Primitive cards, rubber-covered and toothed with bent wires, are still employed by Navajo women.

Sometimes the world doesn't capture specialty trade jargon.

[embatp]

Mark....that bare metal R1 is THE SHIT!!!

[G3isMe]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

painted finishes are tougher because you can't fade them, they are either there or gone. What I hadn't done on this one is the final rusting I now do to dull the high spots. Can use bleach or acid.

Mark, that R1 is awesome. Does the bleach act as a caustic rusting agent? What do we expect to see after the 20-30 minutes of the bleach treatment, rusting? I am just wondering so I don't panic if I see the entire receiver turn red. I am going to try this with a G1 I am building. I am thinking it would be easier to do before barreling. Thoughts?
.
.

[erhauser]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

Card. term from rust bluing. ...

"to card" to break down formed rust with a fine abrasive. ... Be interesting to see the history of the word in this use.

My professional background is in fiber and spinning, among other things. "Carding" is an ancient term of straightening and aligning fibers before spinning. A card is like a brush with very short metal bristles. One works the handful of fibers back and forth between two of these to straighten them for spinning. Obviously today the same thing is done by a machine (still called a card).

The card that wood workers use to clean wood dust from a file is the same tool. I suspect that in the good old days it, or a variation, was used to remove the loose oxide when bluing or browning.

[gunplumber]

Ah yes - I remember "carding" wool before spinning it

Ok, I ran a procedure on a test plate. The plate is parkerized.

Tape off one side, sand lightly with 320#



apply Chlorox bleach (8% solution of Sodium Hypochlorite) . I made a light wiping which dried in 5 minutes. then applied a heavier coat that pooled.



waited about ten minutes, wiped off, and scuffed with 0000 steel wool,



then reapplied. and waited another 10 minutes.



wiped off, lightly scuffed with 000 steel wool.
stuck in toaster for 15 minutes at 400 F

When done on an assembled rifle, there will be spots that cannot be effectively scuffed (which is good) and so the degree of corrosion will not be uniform like in these pictures. It will be greatest on areas with least finish.

You can also experiment with 18 degree baumic HCL/Muriatic acid (pool acid).

You can also use acid and or bleach and or salt vapor by putting the rifle in a sealed container with a tray of the salt water/acid/bleach in a tray at the bottom, and setting in the sun. I use dilute acid to strip bluing and had a coffee cup full sitting on a window sill. All the tools within 15 feet took on a slight dusting of red iron oxide after a couple days (which is what reminded me that the cup of acid was sitting on the window sill.



When done on an assembled rifle, there will be spots that cannot be effectively scuffed (which is good) and so the degree of corrosion will not be uniform like in these pictures. It will be greatest on areas with least finish.

You can also experiment with 18 degree baumic HCL (Muriatic acid - pool acid).

You can also use acid and or bleach and or salt vapor by putting the rifle in a sealed container with a tray of the salt water/acid/bleach in a tray at the bottom, and setting in the sun. I use dilute acid to strip bluing and had a coffee cup full sitting on a window sill. All the tools within 15 feet took on a slight dusting of red iron oxide after a couple days (which is what reminded me that the cup of acid was sitting on the window sill.

[David TS]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

Ah yes - I remember "carding" wool before spinning it

Ok, I ran a procedure on a test plate. The plate is parkerized.

Tape off one side, sand lightly with 320#



apply Chlorox bleach (8% solution of Sodium Hypochlorite) . I made a light wiping which dried in 5 minutes. then applied a heavier coat that pooled.



waited about ten minutes, wiped off, and scuffed with 0000 steel wool,



then reapplied. and waited another 10 minutes.



wiped off, lightly scuffed with 000 steel wool.
stuck in toaster for 15 minutes at 400 F

When done on an assembled rifle, there will be spots that cannot be effectively scuffed (which is good) and so the degree of corrosion will not be uniform like in these pictures. It will be greatest on areas with least finish.

You can also experiment with 18 degree baumic HCL/Muriatic acid (pool acid).

You can also use acid and or bleach and or salt vapor by putting the rifle in a sealed container with a tray of the salt water/acid/bleach in a tray at the bottom, and setting in the sun. I use dilute acid to strip bluing and had a coffee cup full sitting on a window sill. All the tools within 15 feet took on a slight dusting of red iron oxide after a couple days (which is what reminded me that the cup of acid was sitting on the window sill.



When done on an assembled rifle, there will be spots that cannot be effectively scuffed (which is good) and so the degree of corrosion will not be uniform like in these pictures. It will be greatest on areas with least finish.

You can also experiment with 18 degree baumic HCL (Muriatic acid - pool acid).

You can also use acid and or bleach and or salt vapor by putting the rifle in a sealed container with a tray of the salt water/acid/bleach in a tray at the bottom, and setting in the sun. I use dilute acid to strip bluing and had a coffee cup full sitting on a window sill. All the tools within 15 feet took on a slight dusting of red iron oxide after a couple days (which is what reminded me that the cup of acid was sitting on the window sill.

I was all ready to try this, then got to the sun bit. OK for you in Arizona, but we don't get much of that sun stuff here in the UK

[gunplumber]

Originally Posted by David TS

I was all ready to try this, then got to the sun bit. OK for you in Arizona, but we don't get much of that sun stuff here in the UK

It is an option, not a requirement. There is a balance between the concentration of your oxidizer and how fast you can work. When I'm working on a complete rifle, I'm not stopping. While one part is rusting, I'm polishing or applying to another section. And it is always easier to oxidize it more than to undo it, so perhaps one should start with a diluted oxidizer. I've just been doing it for so long that I have a feel for it - I had to rethink the procedure to demonstrate it in a manner that would be relatively quick, and produce results easily viewed in photos.

Also, the paint-sample plates are probably not the highest quality steel, which can account in large part for why the oxidation was more rapid in small dots than uniformly. I applied the bleach uniformly. It isn't an exact science. I just don't recommend you soak it down then wander away for a week.

here's a thing on rust bluing.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31594

[G3isMe]

Mark thanks for the good photos and detailed explanations. I am going to try this with the bleach method, just haven't decided if I want to do it to a DSA or a Coonan. I am thinking the Coonan as if I recall it has a more parkerized looking finish. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that when completed an option is to apply oil and bake the part. Does this offer a better protection from future rusting since I am assuming most of the park has been removed?
.
.

[gunplumber]

Originally Posted by G3isMe

Mark thanks for the good photos and detailed explanations. I am going to try this with the bleach method, just haven't decided if I want to do it to a DSA or a Coonan. I am thinking the Coonan as if I recall it has a more parkerized looking finish. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that when completed an option is to apply oil and bake the part. Does this offer a better protection from future rusting since I am assuming most of the park has been removed?
.
.

Coonans are cast and don't parkerize particularly well. They have different shades depending on how hard they were worked in machining, and sometimes a bit mottled from casting. The even black finish I suspect is paint.

The motor-oil + bake (not in your wife's oven!) is to burn the oil on, which gives it an amber hue and is more cosmetically (IMO) akin to aging. it is just an accelerated way of doing it.

[JasonB]

Mark,

Have you tried 50/50 vinegar and peroxide to induce rust?

[gunplumber]

Hydrogen peroxide is a bleach - I'm assuming a high ph.. I use vinegar (an acid) to neutralize bleach ofter bleaching stocks. I don't know why one would mix them together. Seems it would neutralize both. but no I haven't tried it.

[capt ron]

Be careful when mixing bleach with other chemicals. It may cause a gas that will make you very sick. Use it in an open area with good ventilation.

For example: Never mix bleach and ammonia. It can be a very deadly gas.

Always wear eye protection when using/mixing chemicals.

Ron

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

Hydrogen peroxide is a bleach - I'm assuming a high ph.. I use vinegar (an acid) to neutralize bleach ofter bleaching stocks. I don't know why one would mix them together. Seems it would neutralize both. but no I haven't tried it.

The peroxide supposedly acts as an oxidizer to the acid in the vinegar. I found out how quickly it will corrode steel after reading about how quickly it will dissolve lead. Not sure if it imparts any undesireable colors to that end or not, but it will rust steel fairly quickly.

[gunplumber]

I may give it a try. thanks for the tip.

[JasonB]

Just in case should anyone want to try the other part of the idea it will eat lead fast, but if it doesn't get all of it out of the bore and happens to leach underneath it will do damage to most steels (some stainless flavors seem immune to it). It can be neutralized by a baking soda soak however.

[G3isMe]

Here is a photo of where I am thus far with my attempt. I haven't done the bleach stage yet. What do you think, should I go the extra step or does this look like a decent match thus far. Here is a thread with some before/after photos.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340417

[gunplumber]

you've matched the physical wear very well. Looks great. Doesn't really strike me as old. It's too clean and polished. Even a a well maintained rifle will develop oxidation, and the minor dings and scratches will hold that oxidation when the flats are scrubbed, so you won't get polished surfaces like that.

My first attempts ao distress a receiver was to match it to an Izzy FALO. I used the edges of a cinder block to scratch the surface in shallow but irregular pattern.

[mp]

Originally Posted by G3isMe

Here is a photo of where I am thus far with my attempt. I haven't done the bleach stage yet. What do you think, should I go the extra step or does this look like a decent match thus far. Here is a thread with some before/after photos.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340417

Should have given the receiver a couple select love taps with a ball peen hammer and a brick, then scuffed her up for that "been there" look.

[Ironhandjohn]

After looking at mismatched finishes on my Israeli for years, I actually decided to do something about it. I broke out a foam sanding block and some 400 grit sandpaper and went to work on the high spots.

Before:



The painted finish on the lower was a real pain, as Mark mentioned above(several months ago, I know..)that they are there or they are not. I knocked the paint off of the pins and edges of anything that stuck above the height of the receiver.

After:






The same rifle with the HG spacer removed and some NBC handguards. The "Hebrew Hammer" thinks it's S. African for the time being.

[ExCdnSoldierInTx]

This is an interesting thread. Mark, your distressing looks awesome.
The actory new look of my C1A1 drives me crazy. I never, ever remembered them so pretty...

I gotta take the nice wood off, and drag it around behind my truck for a few miles.

[Dasho101]

would these techniques work on say an ar15.