Got my Swiss Minimi Para in, full auto ; )

**paco** · August 27, 2018, 16:13

Hi,

Just got my Siss minimi in. Made by Astra (not Spain).
Swiss Astra makes two models. A semimodel and a full auto. The semi has a fake feedmechanism and works only with a magzine. This one is the full auto and works like the FN minimi. MAgs and beltfed.

Ammo indicator. When the last 4 rounds are left, you can't see then no longer. This red flag gives an indication. Original M1 minimi's had this feature too. It's obsolete now.

Folding grip

This ejectionport didn't function right. It opens manualy not by the spring.

Bought it as a new weapons, got blue/green cordite left? WTF?

The bolt seems to be made by the poorest lowest bidding company. Rough, rusty. What a shame for "swiss quality". My ass!

Unfired?

Compares a FN Herstal bolt below and the Astra on top.
Not much words are needed to say that FN is top quality, and this looks like el cheapo made in china...

The fronthandguard is empty, no tools, cleaning set. The holes aren't even drilled.

This is odd, when you try to close or open the bidod, it hasn't got the clearance to open with a soft pouch.

The para stock has also a lot of play!

My advice and conclusion.

It looks cool and it's a beltfed
The parts aren't made to the same quality FN does
Some things are just plain stupid like the bipod that can't get open or closed with a pouch

To expensive for the metal you got in return.

**2Adefender** · August 27, 2018, 18:26

Very nice, paco. It’s a para? Who is jumping out of an aircraft with one of those?

**paco** · August 28, 2018, 01:17

Belgian Army (including me) uses the real FN minimi para to jump out the C130.
Not the el cheapo version

lew · August 28, 2018, 11:58

Mind telling what you paid for that after all was said and done?

Pisses me off to no end that we here in Les État-Unis can't saunter into a gun store and by a new-production automatic weapon.

**paco** · August 28, 2018, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew

Mind telling what you paid for that after all was said and done?

Pisses me off to no end that we here in Les État-Unis can't saunter into a gun store and by a new-production automatic weapon.

11k€
No questions asked as a collector....
I talked with the owner. he called astra.
Astra does a testfiring, dont clean it and ships'm.
The weapon functions and thats enough for astra.

The gunshop does a refund. Thats ok to me

mountainman · August 30, 2018, 18:22

How much would a pre ban MAG cost here in the states?

0007 · September 05, 2018, 22:27

Pre-ban transferable MAG(M-240) cost in the states?
If you have to ask, you don't wanna know, heh, heh. But IIRC the last one I saw the number involved five digits and the first one was a six or seven. May be more now.

**Lee Carpentieri** · September 06, 2018, 00:37

As far as Mag -58's go that are transferable, Their are None. Now DLO had made 10 Mag-58 right hand side plates back in the 1980's and left them in his old shop in Ohio. He then went back to Ohio after he sold his old business to the current owners and picked up the side plates and three hundred Sterling registered tubes. When he had moved to Florida he bought 10 Mag-58 kits from DSA and then had Don Quinel of Don's Gun shop in Ft.Myers Fl. re-activate them. They originally sold for 65K, Then prices climbed out of sight. Last I heard they were selling for about 175K. Thing about the Mag-58 is, It will last for 150K rounds before parts start breaking, The M-60-E6 is about half that.

**paco** · September 07, 2018, 05:28

I would be milionair in the usa.
I had five mags at one point in my life

root · September 10, 2018, 18:16

Paco it again never stops amazing me to see your collection.
Thanks again for sharing.

11000 EUD = 12754.43 USD Or about the price of a typical transferable subgun here in the states.

Rich

**paco** · September 11, 2018, 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by root

Paco it again never stops amazing me to see your collection.
Thanks again for sharing.

11000 EUD = 12754.43 USD Or about the price of a typical transferable subgun here in the states.

Rich

No problem, just in case you would/could buy one, stay away...
Also, we don't have EUD EURO Dolars

Its just the EURO €

Yep, the price of subgun. An mint selective Uzi cost like 600$ in the land of the "not" free

Paco

Brian in MN · September 11, 2018, 22:32

Maybe so, paco, but even though I envy your collection I wouldn't trade laws with you. We can drive out to State or National Forest land, camp, hike and shoot anytime we want. It is really, really, nice to be able to shoot and carry our military small arms outside of the formality of an organized range.

It's also very comforting to go to sleep at night with a 50.63 next to you in the tent.

**paco** · September 12, 2018, 07:49

Hmmm, Bryan, we don't live in tents no more. We shifted to brick and concrete buildings. It's more comfy.
Last bear (or Lion) was shot in 1850 so, no need to keep a FAL next to my bed.

**paco** · September 12, 2018, 07:52

Just kidding Brian,

We got nearly 400 people living on each square kilometer.
The USA got like 35 or so. Hmm, i think it make sense that we are not so trigger happy.
It's got nothing to do with loosing rights. Correct me if i'm wrong, 40.000 people get shot each year in the USA, Belgium some 200. USA got 32x more people. 40K hits, Those are shit scary numbers
Just common sense that we can't shoot around any time, any place...
it's hard to find an empty square mile in Belgium.

No hard feelings.

lew · September 12, 2018, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by paco

Correct me if i'm wrong, 40.000 people get shot each year in the USA, Belgium some 200. USA got 32x more people. 40K hits, Those are shit scary numbers

At the risk of thread derailment, most violent shootings involve those already involved in criminal activity- i.e. scumbag-on-scumbag violence, usually drug-related. With suicides and the aforementioned shootings removed, ordinary citizens are no more likely to be shot than in any other Western country, plus most of us have the ability and legal protection to shoot back.

**paco** · September 12, 2018, 16:23

It's a thin line. Everybody thinks or feels that he is the good guy.
Tricky topic. Leave it as is.

I'm ok to live here, i'm happy if you are happy. That's all about life...
It also doesn't mean that i'm not prepared

Shooting burgulars comes with a lot of paperwork, don't ask me how i know

There are preppers on the other side of the pond too

Paco

Brian in MN · September 14, 2018, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew

At the risk of thread derailment, most violent shootings involve those already involved in criminal activity- i.e. scumbag-on-scumbag violence, usually drug-related. With suicides and the aforementioned shootings removed, ordinary citizens are no more likely to be shot than in any other Western country

lew is spot on with that observation. One never sees this discussed in the press, especially the foreign press, but if you actually get into a serious look at the numbers the picture changes dramatically.

lew · September 14, 2018, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by paco

It's a thin line. Everybody thinks or feels that he is the good guy.
Tricky topic. Leave it as is.

I'm ok to live here, i'm happy if you are happy. That's all about life...
It also doesn't mean that i'm not prepared

Shooting burgulars comes with a lot of paperwork, don't ask me how i know

There are preppers on the other side of the pond too

Paco

Keep on keeping on, brother.

You don't have to worry about paperwork if they never find out. Know any pig farmers?

**paco** · September 14, 2018, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in MN

lew is spot on with that observation. One never sees this discussed in the press, especially the foreign press, but if you actually get into a serious look at the numbers the picture changes dramatically.

I hope most incidents are criminal related. But still, 40.000... i hope you dont have more noncriminal incidents pro man as we have. But anyhow,it says something about the crime rate

mountainman · September 14, 2018, 15:36

Wow, so price quoted by PACO here is what most govts, terror orgs, or mercenary groups pay for this kind of hardware. Dang I thought they get things for the price of one less digit than that.

y18376 · September 14, 2018, 17:36

Here a MAG-58 cost 12500 as part of contract buy. A .50 M2HBQCB cost 15000 then we figured how to build units from spares for 12000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Wow, so price quoted by PACO here is what most govts, terror orgs, or mercenary groups pay for this kind of hardware. Dang I thought they get things for the price of one less digit than that.

**Andy the Aussie** · September 14, 2018, 17:48

Yep $12.5K was what the Aus Govt paid(s) for Mag58s.

When production started here an F88 deliverd to the ADF was $2100 per.

Military arms are not cheap unless you are buying a crate of barely used AK47s from a "guy" in a marketplace near Mogadishu...that dude WILL cut you a sweet deal !

y18376 · September 14, 2018, 18:08

Yes the IW Steyr was around that with the exchange rate factored in. It was never referred as F88 here except for a wall chart or publication until local publications appeared .
This a wallchart produced by Lithgow for NZDF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy the Aussie

Yep $12.5K was what the Aus Govt paid(s) for Mag58s.

When production started here an F88 deliverd to the ADF was $2100 per.

Military arms are not cheap unless you are buying a crate of barely used AK47s from a "guy" in a marketplace near Mogadishu...that dude WILL cut you a sweet deal !

mountainman · October 06, 2018, 20:13

Wow, so civilian prices for neutered items like FAL's AK's AR's blah blah blah no way near reflect what govts pay for these things straight from the factory. Now I see how they can make a living.

**paco** · October 07, 2018, 10:54

Don't forget the army needs to invest in the logistic system, training, armorers, didactical stuff, inspections, tools, gauges...

You don't want to know what a flying weapon system cost.

BarnOwlLover · October 14, 2018, 10:55

External finish looks better than on Belgian or US Minimis/M249s, but this is a case of beauty being skin deep. Internal fit and finish isn't as good as genuine FN built weapons. The muzzle device looks cool, but that's about it.

It has to be remembered that most of the improvements that H&K did with the SA-80s were internal fit and finish that was neglected on the A1 version.

I wonder if the full sized mag only variant was better?

https://www.gunsweek.com/en/rifles/i...n-grade-minimi

August 27, 2018, 16:13	#1
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	Got my Swiss Minimi Para in, full auto ; ) Hi, Just got my Siss minimi in. Made by Astra (not Spain). Swiss Astra makes two models. A semimodel and a full auto. The semi has a fake feedmechanism and works only with a magzine. This one is the full auto and works like the FN minimi. MAgs and beltfed. Ammo indicator. When the last 4 rounds are left, you can't see then no longer. This red flag gives an indication. Original M1 minimi's had this feature too. It's obsolete now. Folding grip This ejectionport didn't function right. It opens manualy not by the spring. Bought it as a new weapons, got blue/green cordite left? WTF? The bolt seems to be made by the poorest lowest bidding company. Rough, rusty. What a shame for "swiss quality". My ass! Unfired? Compares a FN Herstal bolt below and the Astra on top. Not much words are needed to say that FN is top quality, and this looks like el cheapo made in china... The fronthandguard is empty, no tools, cleaning set. The holes aren't even drilled. This is odd, when you try to close or open the bidod, it hasn't got the clearance to open with a soft pouch. The para stock has also a lot of play! My advice and conclusion. It looks cool and it's a beltfed The parts aren't made to the same quality FN does Some things are just plain stupid like the bipod that can't get open or closed with a pouch To expensive for the metal you got in return.

August 27, 2018, 18:26	#2
2Adefender More ammo please Contributor FALaholic #: 62519 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 342	Very nice, paco. It’s a para? Who is jumping out of an aircraft with one of those? __________________ Jon

August 28, 2018, 11:58	#4
lew Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 16727 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 8,307	Mind telling what you paid for that after all was said and done? Pisses me off to no end that we here in Les État-Unis can't saunter into a gun store and by a new-production automatic weapon. __________________ Statism: Ideas so great, they're mandatory. "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens

August 30, 2018, 18:22	#6
mountainman Registered FALaholic #: 14702 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 4,417	How much would a pre ban MAG cost here in the states? __________________ PM me if you need something not advertised for sale.

September 05, 2018, 22:27	#7
0007 Registered FALaholic #: 8922 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: back in the States for a while Posts: 1,338	Pre-ban transferable MAG(M-240) cost in the states? If you have to ask, you don't wanna know, heh, heh. But IIRC the last one I saw the number involved five digits and the first one was a six or seven. May be more now. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant - Back in the USA again

August 28, 2018, 01:17	#3
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	Belgian Army (including me) uses the real FN minimi para to jump out the C130. Not the el cheapo version

September 06, 2018, 00:37	#8
Lee Carpentieri Old Fart Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 4936 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid Posts: 6,660	Mag-58's As far as Mag -58's go that are transferable, Their are None. Now DLO had made 10 Mag-58 right hand side plates back in the 1980's and left them in his old shop in Ohio. He then went back to Ohio after he sold his old business to the current owners and picked up the side plates and three hundred Sterling registered tubes. When he had moved to Florida he bought 10 Mag-58 kits from DSA and then had Don Quinel of Don's Gun shop in Ft.Myers Fl. re-activate them. They originally sold for 65K, Then prices climbed out of sight. Last I heard they were selling for about 175K. Thing about the Mag-58 is, It will last for 150K rounds before parts start breaking, The M-60-E6 is about half that. __________________ Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.

September 07, 2018, 05:28	#9
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	I would be milionair in the usa. I had five mags at one point in my life

September 10, 2018, 18:16	#10
root Registered FALaholic #: 8376 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NEPA Posts: 21	Paco it again never stops amazing me to see your collection. Thanks again for sharing. 11000 EUD = 12754.43 USD Or about the price of a typical transferable subgun here in the states. Rich

September 11, 2018, 22:32	#12
Brian in MN Registered FALaholic #: 289 Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 5,452	Maybe so, paco, but even though I envy your collection I wouldn't trade laws with you. We can drive out to State or National Forest land, camp, hike and shoot anytime we want. It is really, really, nice to be able to shoot and carry our military small arms outside of the formality of an organized range. It's also very comforting to go to sleep at night with a 50.63 next to you in the tent. __________________ Kalashnikov: The most successful point and click interface in the world.

September 12, 2018, 07:49	#13
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	Hmmm, Bryan, we don't live in tents no more. We shifted to brick and concrete buildings. It's more comfy. Last bear (or Lion) was shot in 1850 so, no need to keep a FAL next to my bed.

September 12, 2018, 07:52	#14
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	Just kidding Brian, We got nearly 400 people living on each square kilometer. The USA got like 35 or so. Hmm, i think it make sense that we are not so trigger happy. It's got nothing to do with loosing rights. Correct me if i'm wrong, 40.000 people get shot each year in the USA, Belgium some 200. USA got 32x more people. 40K hits, Those are shit scary numbers Just common sense that we can't shoot around any time, any place... it's hard to find an empty square mile in Belgium. No hard feelings. Last edited by paco; September 12, 2018 at 08:02.

September 12, 2018, 16:23	#16
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	It's a thin line. Everybody thinks or feels that he is the good guy. Tricky topic. Leave it as is. I'm ok to live here, i'm happy if you are happy. That's all about life... It also doesn't mean that i'm not prepared Shooting burgulars comes with a lot of paperwork, don't ask me how i know There are preppers on the other side of the pond too Paco

September 14, 2018, 15:36	#20
mountainman Registered FALaholic #: 14702 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 4,417	Wow, so price quoted by PACO here is what most govts, terror orgs, or mercenary groups pay for this kind of hardware. Dang I thought they get things for the price of one less digit than that. __________________ PM me if you need something not advertised for sale.

October 06, 2018, 20:13	#24
mountainman Registered FALaholic #: 14702 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 4,417	Wow, so civilian prices for neutered items like FAL's AK's AR's blah blah blah no way near reflect what govts pay for these things straight from the factory. Now I see how they can make a living. __________________ PM me if you need something not advertised for sale.

October 07, 2018, 10:54	#25
paco Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 19226 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: brabant/Belgium - collecting Posts: 2,627	Don't forget the army needs to invest in the logistic system, training, armorers, didactical stuff, inspections, tools, gauges... You don't want to know what a flying weapon system cost.

October 14, 2018, 10:55	#26
BarnOwlLover Registered FALaholic #: 81552 Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 220	External finish looks better than on Belgian or US Minimis/M249s, but this is a case of beauty being skin deep. Internal fit and finish isn't as good as genuine FN built weapons. The muzzle device looks cool, but that's about it. It has to be remembered that most of the improvements that H&K did with the SA-80s were internal fit and finish that was neglected on the A1 version. I wonder if the full sized mag only variant was better? https://www.gunsweek.com/en/rifles/i...n-grade-minimi Last edited by BarnOwlLover; October 14, 2018 at 11:06.

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