Got my Swiss Minimi Para in, full auto ; )

[paco]

Hi,

Just got my Siss minimi in. Made by Astra (not Spain).
Swiss Astra makes two models. A semimodel and a full auto. The semi has a fake feedmechanism and works only with a magzine. This one is the full auto and works like the FN minimi. MAgs and beltfed.










Ammo indicator. When the last 4 rounds are left, you can't see then no longer. This red flag gives an indication. Original M1 minimi's had this feature too. It's obsolete now.

Folding grip






This ejectionport didn't function right. It opens manualy not by the spring.




Bought it as a new weapons, got blue/green cordite left? WTF?



The bolt seems to be made by the poorest lowest bidding company. Rough, rusty. What a shame for "swiss quality". My ass!


Unfired?


Compares a FN Herstal bolt below and the Astra on top.
Not much words are needed to say that FN is top quality, and this looks like el cheapo made in china...




The fronthandguard is empty, no tools, cleaning set. The holes aren't even drilled.


This is odd, when you try to close or open the bidod, it hasn't got the clearance to open with a soft pouch.



The para stock has also a lot of play!

My advice and conclusion.

• It looks cool and it's a beltfed
• The parts aren't made to the same quality FN does
• Some things are just plain stupid like the bipod that can't get open or closed with a pouch

To expensive for the metal you got in return.

[2Adefender]

Very nice, paco. It’s a para? Who is jumping out of an aircraft with one of those?

[paco]

Belgian Army (including me) uses the real FN minimi para to jump out the C130.
Not the el cheapo version

[lew]

Mind telling what you paid for that after all was said and done?

Pisses me off to no end that we here in Les État-Unis can't saunter into a gun store and by a new-production automatic weapon.

[paco]

Originally Posted by lew

Mind telling what you paid for that after all was said and done?

Pisses me off to no end that we here in Les État-Unis can't saunter into a gun store and by a new-production automatic weapon.

11k€
No questions asked as a collector....
I talked with the owner. he called astra.
Astra does a testfiring, dont clean it and ships'm.
The weapon functions and thats enough for astra.

The gunshop does a refund. Thats ok to me

[mountainman]

How much would a pre ban MAG cost here in the states?

[0007]

Pre-ban transferable MAG(M-240) cost in the states?
If you have to ask, you don't wanna know, heh, heh. But IIRC the last one I saw the number involved five digits and the first one was a six or seven. May be more now.

[Lee Carpentieri]

As far as Mag -58's go that are transferable, Their are None. Now DLO had made 10 Mag-58 right hand side plates back in the 1980's and left them in his old shop in Ohio. He then went back to Ohio after he sold his old business to the current owners and picked up the side plates and three hundred Sterling registered tubes. When he had moved to Florida he bought 10 Mag-58 kits from DSA and then had Don Quinel of Don's Gun shop in Ft.Myers Fl. re-activate them. They originally sold for 65K, Then prices climbed out of sight. Last I heard they were selling for about 175K. Thing about the Mag-58 is, It will last for 150K rounds before parts start breaking, The M-60-E6 is about half that.

[paco]

I would be milionair in the usa.
I had five mags at one point in my life

[root]

Paco it again never stops amazing me to see your collection.
Thanks again for sharing.

11000 EUD = 12754.43 USD Or about the price of a typical transferable subgun here in the states.

Rich

[paco]

Originally Posted by root

Paco it again never stops amazing me to see your collection.
Thanks again for sharing.

11000 EUD = 12754.43 USD Or about the price of a typical transferable subgun here in the states.

Rich

No problem, just in case you would/could buy one, stay away...
Also, we don't have EUD EURO Dolars
Its just the EURO €

Yep, the price of subgun. An mint selective Uzi cost like 600$ in the land of the "not" free

Paco

[Brian in MN]

Maybe so, paco, but even though I envy your collection I wouldn't trade laws with you. We can drive out to State or National Forest land, camp, hike and shoot anytime we want. It is really, really, nice to be able to shoot and carry our military small arms outside of the formality of an organized range.

It's also very comforting to go to sleep at night with a 50.63 next to you in the tent.

[paco]

Hmmm, Bryan, we don't live in tents no more. We shifted to brick and concrete buildings. It's more comfy.
Last bear (or Lion) was shot in 1850 so, no need to keep a FAL next to my bed.

[paco]

Just kidding Brian,

We got nearly 400 people living on each square kilometer.
The USA got like 35 or so. Hmm, i think it make sense that we are not so trigger happy.
It's got nothing to do with loosing rights. Correct me if i'm wrong, 40.000 people get shot each year in the USA, Belgium some 200. USA got 32x more people. 40K hits, Those are shit scary numbers
Just common sense that we can't shoot around any time, any place...
it's hard to find an empty square mile in Belgium.

No hard feelings.

[lew]

Originally Posted by paco

Correct me if i'm wrong, 40.000 people get shot each year in the USA, Belgium some 200. USA got 32x more people. 40K hits, Those are shit scary numbers

At the risk of thread derailment, most violent shootings involve those already involved in criminal activity- i.e. scumbag-on-scumbag violence, usually drug-related. With suicides and the aforementioned shootings removed, ordinary citizens are no more likely to be shot than in any other Western country, plus most of us have the ability and legal protection to shoot back.

[paco]

It's a thin line. Everybody thinks or feels that he is the good guy.
Tricky topic. Leave it as is.

I'm ok to live here, i'm happy if you are happy. That's all about life...
It also doesn't mean that i'm not prepared
Shooting burgulars comes with a lot of paperwork, don't ask me how i know

There are preppers on the other side of the pond too

Paco

[Brian in MN]

Originally Posted by lew

At the risk of thread derailment, most violent shootings involve those already involved in criminal activity- i.e. scumbag-on-scumbag violence, usually drug-related. With suicides and the aforementioned shootings removed, ordinary citizens are no more likely to be shot than in any other Western country

lew is spot on with that observation. One never sees this discussed in the press, especially the foreign press, but if you actually get into a serious look at the numbers the picture changes dramatically.

[lew]

Originally Posted by paco

It's a thin line. Everybody thinks or feels that he is the good guy.
Tricky topic. Leave it as is.

I'm ok to live here, i'm happy if you are happy. That's all about life...
It also doesn't mean that i'm not prepared
Shooting burgulars comes with a lot of paperwork, don't ask me how i know

There are preppers on the other side of the pond too

Paco

Keep on keeping on, brother.

You don't have to worry about paperwork if they never find out. Know any pig farmers?

[paco]

Originally Posted by Brian in MN

lew is spot on with that observation. One never sees this discussed in the press, especially the foreign press, but if you actually get into a serious look at the numbers the picture changes dramatically.

I hope most incidents are criminal related. But still, 40.000... i hope you dont have more noncriminal incidents pro man as we have. But anyhow,it says something about the crime rate

[mountainman]

Wow, so price quoted by PACO here is what most govts, terror orgs, or mercenary groups pay for this kind of hardware. Dang I thought they get things for the price of one less digit than that.

[y18376]

Here a MAG-58 cost 12500 as part of contract buy. A .50 M2HBQCB cost 15000 then we figured how to build units from spares for 12000.

Originally Posted by mountainman

Wow, so price quoted by PACO here is what most govts, terror orgs, or mercenary groups pay for this kind of hardware. Dang I thought they get things for the price of one less digit than that.

[Andy the Aussie]

Yep $12.5K was what the Aus Govt paid(s) for Mag58s.

When production started here an F88 deliverd to the ADF was $2100 per.

Military arms are not cheap unless you are buying a crate of barely used AK47s from a "guy" in a marketplace near Mogadishu...that dude WILL cut you a sweet deal !

[y18376]

Yes the IW Steyr was around that with the exchange rate factored in. It was never referred as F88 here except for a wall chart or publication until local publications appeared .
This a wallchart produced by Lithgow for NZDF.

Originally Posted by Andy the Aussie

Yep $12.5K was what the Aus Govt paid(s) for Mag58s.

When production started here an F88 deliverd to the ADF was $2100 per.

Military arms are not cheap unless you are buying a crate of barely used AK47s from a "guy" in a marketplace near Mogadishu...that dude WILL cut you a sweet deal !

[mountainman]

Wow, so civilian prices for neutered items like FAL's AK's AR's blah blah blah no way near reflect what govts pay for these things straight from the factory. Now I see how they can make a living.

[paco]

Don't forget the army needs to invest in the logistic system, training, armorers, didactical stuff, inspections, tools, gauges...

You don't want to know what a flying weapon system cost.

[BarnOwlLover]

External finish looks better than on Belgian or US Minimis/M249s, but this is a case of beauty being skin deep. Internal fit and finish isn't as good as genuine FN built weapons. The muzzle device looks cool, but that's about it.

It has to be remembered that most of the improvements that H&K did with the SA-80s were internal fit and finish that was neglected on the A1 version.

I wonder if the full sized mag only variant was better?

https://www.gunsweek.com/en/rifles/i...n-grade-minimi